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Replies: 21
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Legend [16416]
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Biggest winners and losers from ACC expansion
Jan 14, 2018, 9:51 AM
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Gosmitty’s post got me thinking. GT has lost a lot in the wake of ACC expansion. Leading up to the expansion, they were a perennial contender in all three of the “major” sports. They lost their biggest conference rivalry, and saw better competitors added in all 3 sports. They would get my biggest loser (no offense intended with the term) award.
Other losers:
Maryland - chased from the conference, now an afterthought in the BIG
NCSU - same situation as GT and Maryland
Miami - went from lead dog in Big East football to also ran in ACC
VT - same as Miami, but to lesser degree
Winners:
FSU - independent to major conference
Clemson - More football credibility brought to conference
Louisville - better competition in all three major sports
Syracuse - better competition in Hoops
Others and conference overall:
Rising tide lifts all boats
Great basketball conference got better
Good football conference got better
Good baseball conference got better
Better competition in all sports has improved almost all programs
Thoughts, comments?
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All-TigerNet [13879]
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I would add Syracuse and Louisville to the loser category
Jan 14, 2018, 9:54 AM
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How are they better than they were in the Big East? I think they have gotten worse and are lease likely to win a conference championship in football or basketball now.
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Legend [16416]
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Losers in basketball, probably
Jan 14, 2018, 10:03 AM
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But Louisville has had a Heisman Trophy winner, better recruiting and has been ranked highly in football since joining. They have definitely benefitted in baseball. Big East baseball?
Syracuse, you might have a point, but they did beat the #1 team in the nation in football in 2017.
I think Pitt is a toss up, too.
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Re: Losers in basketball, probably
Jan 14, 2018, 10:06 AM
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I think Pitt is a winner, because the ACC gave them the stability in a conference that they've never had. If not for the ACC, I think Pitt is sitting in the "All-American Conference", and being as irrelevant as they can be.
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Legend [16416]
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I would add Syracuse and Louisville to the loser category
Jan 14, 2018, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to I would add Syracuse and Louisville to the loser category ] |
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I think Louisville may have hurt some in football but basketball has stayed the same and baseball it has helped. They had a year or 2 in football in the big east but have never been a great football school.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I would add Syracuse and Louisville to the loser category
Jan 14, 2018, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to I would add Syracuse and Louisville to the loser category ] |
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Cuse I would agree with. They had good years in football in the big east and basketball has stayed about the same maybe gone down some. Idk much about their baseball team.
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Re: Biggest winners and losers from ACC expansion
Jan 14, 2018, 10:05 AM
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I think VT was a winner. They shoehorned themselves into a conference that fit them perfectly from a geography standpoint, and they dominated the conference from 2004 to 2010. Since then, they've fallen off, but not because of expansion.
Miami was definitely a loser, because their power immediately fell off after expansion.
I think rivalries in general are losers from expansion in the ACC, because we de-emphasized the geographic cohesiveness of the conference by not going north/south.
Also, I think Tobacco Road is a loser, because their power was diluted.
Finally, I guess Maryland was a loser. I still don't get why they went to the Big 10. I think over time, they will regret that decision.
I hope that one day, we go to a north/south split. But I doubt that ever happens. I think the Virginia schools would go nuts if they put into a "north", as would the other schools that would be stuck in that division. Currently, the Coastal sucks. It's horrible for rivalries and all the fun in the ACC looks to be on the Atlantic side. I hate that.
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Legend [16416]
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And who besides Notre Dame would benefit by the ACC
Jan 14, 2018, 10:11 AM
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adding them as a full member?
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Re: And who besides Notre Dame would benefit by the ACC
Jan 14, 2018, 10:15 AM
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I'm sure that programs like UCF & USF would love to get into the ACC.
Personally, I liked the size of the conference when we were at 12. That was the best, but we just had a bad division split. I'd love to get rid of Syracuse & Pitt, and go back to 12. Nothing against those two schools. They're good schools. I just don't think of them as conference brethren though.
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Legend [16416]
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12 might be the best
Jan 14, 2018, 10:18 AM
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But even 16 would be better than 14.5
LOL, maybe we need to discuss this topic offline editing...no one else seems to care (1 reply by someone other than you or me)
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All-TigerNet [13879]
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I think the lack of interest in the topic is due
Jan 14, 2018, 10:24 AM
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to fans just not caring about the schools that have joined. It's been how long since VT and Miami joined? I still don't feel like they are really part of the conference. LOL
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Re: 12 might be the best
Jan 14, 2018, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to 12 might be the best ] |
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LOL. yeah, you're right. It's just us now.
I don't like having Notre Dame as a half member. I'd like to just boot them out, and then go back to 12. But that will never happen.
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Orange Blooded [2635]
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Re: If it goes to 16 with ND plus one (UCONN or Cincy)
Jan 14, 2018, 12:57 PM
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Actually, I think 16 lends it self to an 8 game schedule pretty well. Someone should go to a 16 team conference with the following setup:
1) Four subdivisions of 4 teams each
2) Subdivisions rotate who they are paired with and form two divisions each year
3) You play everyone in your subdivision each year and the other subdivisions every 3 years
4) You have one permanent opponent from another subdivision (and thus play them every year). In the year that that subdivision is paired with your permanent opponents subdivision, then you have a secondary opponent that takes the 8th slot (and thus you play that team 2/3 years)
The division champs meets in a conference championship game.
Potential Subdivions (with potential perm/secondary):
North:
Pitt (Louisville, Duke)
Syracuse (USF, GA Tech)
Virginia Tech (Virginia, Miami)
Boston College (Wake, UCF)
North Carolina:
Wake Forest (BC, Louisville)
UNC (UCF, UVA)
Duke (Miami, Pitt)
NC State (Clemson, FSU)
South:
Clemson (NC State, USF)
UVA (Virginia Tech, UNC)
GA Tech (FSU, Syracuse)
Louisville (Pitt, Wake)
Florida:
FSU (GA Tech, NC State)
Miami (Duke, VA Tech)
USF (Syracuse, Clemson)
UCF (UNC, BC)
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110%er [8866]
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Re: If it goes to 16 with ND plus one (UCONN or Cincy)
Jan 14, 2018, 2:59 PM
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I like your idea. Those two Florida schools have a really big alumni base too for marketing
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: If it goes to 16 with ND plus one (UCONN or Cincy)
Jan 14, 2018, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: If it goes to 16 with ND plus one (UCONN or Cincy) ] |
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If we continue to add teams to the conference we will essentially be back to the old Southern Conference numbers before the ACC was formed. I've always been an advocate of a conference where a team played every team in the conference. This eliminates cross-overs, etc and there is a true conference winner. If two teams are tied, the head-to-head meeting determines the winner. That eliminates a conference playoff. A ten team conference would result in nine conference games and two or three traditional rivals and non-conference games. Each conference winner would advance to the playoffs. Twelve conferences would include 120 teams, and if there are enough programs willing to incresase their current status to "big boy" football, 16 conferences of ten members each would produce a simple playoff system. A 12 game season would shorten the length of the playoffs and those teams not in the playoff could arrange a thirteenth game to compenate for any lost revenue.
A four, eight or sixteen team playoff would be quite simple but a 12 team playoff would require some adjustments. I have some ideas about the playoff but that's another topic.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Biggest winners and losers from ACC expansion
Jan 14, 2018, 10:31 AM
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ND has been a winner in basketball and baseball.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Biggest winners and losers from ACC expansion
Jan 14, 2018, 10:32 AM
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I dont think NC ST is a loser. They have stayed about the same IMO.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Biggest winners and losers from ACC expansion
Jan 14, 2018, 10:33 AM
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All the big east teams are winners in football seeing that they are in a conference.
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110%er [6095]
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Only Va Tech and Louisville from former Big East seem to
Jan 14, 2018, 1:14 PM
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Be winners to me. In fact it may not be better for Louisville in the long run.
Miami was supposed to make the ACC the All Canes conference in football. Clearly they haven’t done that. I guess their basketball may have benefited. Syracuse Pitt and Louisville are going to be losers in basketball. All three programs in decline. BC appears to be struggling outside of the Matt Ryan years.
I don’t think going from two potential conference champion (acc and big east) down to one, benefits any Big East team
Message was edited by: tigertrain®
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Orange Blooded [4382]
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Re: Miami's decline had very little to do with joining
Jan 14, 2018, 2:45 PM
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the ACC. Scandals, corruption, probation and poor coaching hires... .
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