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CU Medallion [59969]
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Biden and Company doing
Mar 9, 2021, 7:46 AM
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an amazing job at locking up kids and stacking them on each other in FEMA camps. Just beautiful to see. He is so compassionate.
While we are at it and encouraging lawlessness, why don’t we get the Middle East into some more conflicts. We definitely need to start lobbing more bombs.
Biden is making Trump look better every single day.
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Heisman Winner [111193]
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Re: Biden and Company doing
Mar 9, 2021, 7:51 AM
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This must have been on Fox and friends, you buddies already did the rounds on this one.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Biden and Company doing
Mar 9, 2021, 8:04 AM
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Probably. On a different note, Trump left with a 38% approval rating. I that is just is cult tat makes up all of that. Biden is at 60%. I don't think Trump will ever look better to the masses.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Biden and Company doing
Mar 9, 2021, 10:04 PM
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Probably. On a different note, Trump left with a 38% approval rating. I that is just is cult tat makes up all of that. Biden is at 60%. I don't think Trump will ever look better to the masses.
All Obama did was send hundreds ( of billions) to terrorist. Biden stood by and watched the whole thing!
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Biden and Company doing
Mar 10, 2021, 6:39 AM
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That changed nothing for the negative more than likely and we didn't give one dollar of our money. We wanted to monitor nuclear development. Trump made so we monitored nothing. What approach was better? Who knows in the end?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Biden and Company doing
Mar 9, 2021, 8:01 AM
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100's of missiles were launched in the Middle East under Trump. Biden has a long way to go. One thing that is concerning, on the surface, are all of the unaccompanied minors at the border tough. It's seems like they feel they can send the kids here now and they will be coming by the thousands. There were 7000 that just showed up in February alone. That is going to be a mess. Part of the Dem "solution" is supposedly to give those corrupt countries financial assistance so that the kids won't feel the need to come to the US. That will never work. That would be a complete waste of money and wouldn't fix a thing.
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110%er [9638]
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US policy states that unaccompanied minors can't be sent
Mar 9, 2021, 9:34 AM
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back (I got this info from an AP article - but I don't have the link handy). So they are being sent alone. Some have "sponsors" in the US; others do not.
The US is paying travel expenses to get these kids to their sponsors. It costs $775 per DAY to house them.
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110%er [9638]
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Have to make a correction - we can send them back now
Mar 9, 2021, 11:00 AM
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as of 1/29/2021.
I'm not sure how we send them back - I guess it's a case-by-case basis.
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All-In [41898]
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It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 8:02 AM
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Why didn't you have a problem with it when Trump did it?
Partisan hack.
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Heisman Winner [119529]
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And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 8:08 AM
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Don’t forget him.....
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All-In [48078]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 8:16 AM
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I kind of makes one wonder if W and the Repubs hadn't taken us to Iraq if all of it would have still happened.
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All-TigerNet [11623]
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That resolution passed the House and Senate with
Mar 9, 2021, 8:28 AM
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major bipartisan support.
But go ahead and make it partisan.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: That resolution passed the House and Senate with
Mar 9, 2021, 8:36 AM
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The majority of Dems voted against it. It passed , but it was a Republican war lead by our commander and chief who was W. W's war and Repub war overall. Libs were protesting in the streets. Repubs were cheering it on.
Anyway, here was the vote on Iraq.
House
Repubs 251 Ayes 6 Nays 2 no votes
Dems 81 Ayes 126 nays
Independent 1 Nay
Senate
Repubs 48 Ayes 1 Nay
Dems 29 Ayes 21 Nayes
Independent 1 Nay
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All-TigerNet [11623]
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The majority of Senate Dems voted for it....
Mar 9, 2021, 9:21 AM
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The Dems had the power to stop it in the Senate. Instead the majority Dems (29>21) voted for it.
Had the Dems truly been against the war they could have stopped it 52-48.
Hindsight is what it is, but don't pretend that it didn't have bipartisan support.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: The majority of Senate Dems voted for it....
Mar 9, 2021, 9:35 AM
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Still a Repub l war and it was basically unanimous for the Repubs and was Repub propaganda that took us there. Not enough Dems voted against, but it's still a Repub war. I wish more Dems voted against it.
You know that down deep it was a basically a W and Repub blunder. It was W and his crew that took us there. Then there was basically unanimous support from Repub voters too. Most of us libs knew it was idiotic. Your crew saw us as unpatriotic for seeing the obvious.
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Legend [15730]
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I think those numbers would constitute a "bipartisan" vote.
Mar 9, 2021, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: That resolution passed the House and Senate with ] |
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Or at least a vote that shouldn't then be considered a purely Republican one.
A majority of Dems in the Senate and 40% of the house Dems in a vote that was obviously going to pass (allowing Dems in more liberal districts to appease their home base regardless of how they felt).
Just my opinion. Regardless, I'm not sure how that plays into this discussion?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I think those numbers would constitute a "bipartisan" vote.
Mar 9, 2021, 9:42 AM
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155 against and I think 104 for. Most were against and it was by a relatively large margin. It was bi partisan support though, because Dems were needed, but the majority of Dems opposed. Basically every Repubs supported it. The Dem voters in this country were against overall too. Repub voters loved it. They were naive back then. They learned and that's part of the reason they were so happy that Trump didn't do anything similar or as naive. The country learned the hard way. Some of us knew right a way that you can't nation build in the Middle East and that it would end up a mess. Repubs talked of freedom on the march etc etc.
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Legend [15730]
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According to this, 40% of Dems in polling supported the war.
Mar 9, 2021, 10:12 AM
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https://www.brookings.edu/articles/rally-round-the-flag-opinion-in-the-united-states-before-and-after-the-iraq-war/
"Not surprisingly, Republicans (75 percent in favor) backed war more strongly than did Democrats (only 40 percent)."
I just think it's a bit of a stretch to claim the moral high ground on a regrettable war because only 40% of Democrats supported it. That's a large chunk of Democrats.
If you personally want to claim "the right" on this point based on your position, that's totally understandable. But to disavow all ownership because of either a house vote on a easily passing resolution or because only 40% of the Democrats polled supported the war, seems to be a bit of a stretch.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: According to this, 40% of Dems in polling supported the war.
Mar 9, 2021, 10:26 AM
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Yes..the majority did not. I agree. 6 out of 10 opposed. Even out of some that supported, they were not enthusiastic. It was all of our lib shows too that opposed. That time period made Jon Stewart huge. The left wing media opposed the war generally. The right wing media supported it and were thrilled. The vast majority of Repubs by a mile supported the war. That war for the right was similar for the right as to the support for Trump. I remember back in those days I would go on cutigers and I would be attacked and called a traitor by Repubs for not supporting it. Repubs loved it. Libs, not so much. There were only a handful of us libs on there. We were all attacked, with the Repubs on there having unanimous support for the war. They were so excited, but yet clueless as to where it was all going.
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All-In [41898]
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We all know it was bipartisan.
Mar 9, 2021, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to That resolution passed the House and Senate with ] |
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Bipartisanly wrong. It was based on lies told by the Bush administration and public sentiment still fresh off 9/11.
Those Americans who rabidly called for the war and attacked those who spoke out against it were fringe right wing. That same side has preached a hypocritical and downright lying support of Trump's opposition to the war and keeping us out of conflict. They forget they were the most rabid in favor of it back in the day. As for current members of this board, xtiger is a good specimen of that. He'll pretend he didn't support Iraq, but those of us back here during that time remember the stances he took.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: We all know it was bipartisan.
Mar 10, 2021, 6:42 AM
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The entire debacle is based on W's blunder. That's a given. That has to be the biggest blunder in US history.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to And Obama ] |
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I've already said many times it was wrong under him, and you already know I have.
It was quite different under him compared to Trump, however.
But again, none of you had a problem with it under Trump. You cheered it on. Partisan hacks with zero integrity.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 8:29 AM
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They cheered on W taking us to Iraq and leaving Obama with a mess. It was their mess they complained about.
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Legend [15730]
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It is too your credit that you are consistent on this topic,
Mar 9, 2021, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: And Obama ] |
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but I think the original post is calling out the blatant hypocrisy of the topic. The issue was used to paint Trump as a heartless racist. Again, credit to you for condemning it under all administrations, but would you call Biden a heartless racist?
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Legend [15730]
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It is *to* your credit. Krikee. More coffee.***
Mar 9, 2021, 9:34 AM
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All-In [41898]
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If a person...
Mar 9, 2021, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to It is too your credit that you are consistent on this topic, ] |
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Denounced it under Trump and won't do it under Biden, yes, that person is a hypocrite.
But so is the OP because he cheered it on during Trump. Or at least mocked it and made light of it.
I'm not calling Biden a "heartless racist". And during that situation with Trump, I don't think "heartless racism" was his motive. But it was #### sure cruel and #### sure intended to be, and probably for a more sinister purpose.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: And Obama ] |
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I think it’s fine under trump and fine under Biden. There is no good way of handling this crisis. That is why we must deter this from happening. We need to stop people traveling across Central America to claim “asylum” in the USA. It would be a crisis in any country.
Just can’t stand the hypocrisy by the left. It was migrant facilities under Obama, kids in cages under Trump, and now back to migrant facilities. Still waiting on an AOC photo shoot and her squad to call them concentration camps.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:00 AM
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If you think it's okay to put children in cages under any circumstance, that speaks for itself and there's no point arguing with you about it or trying to convince you otherwise. You can't be helped as a person.
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110%er [9638]
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I'm curious to hear your alternative to migrant facilities..***
Mar 9, 2021, 10:16 AM
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All-In [41898]
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You want my alternative to...
Mar 9, 2021, 10:21 AM
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Separating children from their parents and putting them in cages? Including the ones who try to come here legally?
As in you think there aren't viable alternatives to that? Let me know if this is your stance before I proceed.
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110%er [9638]
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A kid shows up in the US - we can't send him back. We
Mar 9, 2021, 10:39 AM
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can't let him go if he has no sponsor. What do we do with him? It's a simple question.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: A kid shows up in the US - we can't send him back. We
Mar 9, 2021, 10:43 AM
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Mine was a simple question as well, and you're avoiding it.
In your scenario, are you referring to a kid showing up by himself? You didn't make that clear. You said he just showed up (this isn't really happening, but I'll entertain it).
First, yes we can send him back. Not sure where you got the idea we can't. If his family is back in his native nation, we can return him. Remember Elian Gonzalez? We got him back to his family in Cuba even as family in the U.S. tried to keep him.
If he has family in the U.S., we can house him in a humane facility (not cages) until we are able to locate them.
Why do you think the only alternative is to toss him in a chain-link pen?
It sounds more like you need to go back and clarify your scenario because we really don't have solo children crossing the border.
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110%er [9638]
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All-In [41898]
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I stand corrected...
Mar 9, 2021, 11:40 AM
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On unaccompanied children crossing, but not on how to handle the situation.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: And Obama ] |
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Then what would you do? What’s the alternative? I think it’s equally cruel to release kids onto the streets of the US.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:22 AM
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So you think the only alternative to stripping children from their parents, even when they legally try to enter the U.S. at the border (happened under Trump), is to just turn the kids loose in the streets?
You think that's the only alternative?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: And Obama ] |
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Catahoula...I agree with you on most things. That said, I don't mind the kids having walls made out of fencing. It's easier to keep an eye on them too. I don't think they should be separated from their parents though. Their accommodations should be weak though overall. 7,000 kids alone in February. How many adults? No way should give them a nice place to stay. Unless we are trying to encourage millions of people to show up waiting for a nice place to live for free for a bit.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:37 AM
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I'm not calling for them to be given penthouse suites in a Hilton. But when there are stories of toddlers changing infants' diapers inside those chain link fences, that's inexcusable and indefensible.
We're the ####### United States of America. Not some third world BS Eastern European nation. We can do better.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:46 AM
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Allowing the cartels and coyotes to traffic kids to the border so they get preferential treatment is also inexcusable.
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All-In [41898]
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This is ridiculous logic
Mar 9, 2021, 11:50 AM
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One that y'all parrot over and over from Tucker and the like. You didn't come up with this as an original thought because too many of you parrot it.
You are advocating taking children away from their actual parents just to make sure we snag the people who are using them.
That is absurd logic, and one that our own law enforcement would not do here. Would police start taking children away from all the parents in your neighborhood because of a report of one possible case of trafficking? No?
There's your answer.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: And Obama
Mar 9, 2021, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: And Obama ] |
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I support the chain link fence. We can see them. It's safer for them, but yeah it would be good if they could stay with their parent/s. On the other hand, they don't want to lock a bunch of kids up with a crowded room of adults and strangers. It's a tough situation. One thing is for sure, there is no excuse for losing the parents and not at least being in the same facility where they can see each other daily.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to It's wrong and it should end. ] |
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Catahoula says it’s wrong and should end but he has no ideas on what to do.
There isn’t a good answer especially in the pandemic. We can’t just release these kids on the streets of America.
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Legend [15730]
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I think this is what everyone glosses over, and why Trump
Mar 9, 2021, 9:41 AM
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deserves more credit than he gets.
Everyone clutches their pearls about the detention centers at the border. Everyone mocks him about "having the Mexicans pay for the wall." But most of us want a sovereign nation and a secure border, and an open border during a pandemic can't possibly be justified. Not when people weren't allowed to visit their dying parents. It would be indefensible.
Trump did a lot to dissuade the flow of illegal immigrants to our southern border. Mock his wall claim all you want, but late in his term, Mexico and central American countries were actively dissuading the migrant caravans well before they got anywhere near our country...at the southern border of Mexico and even in Central America itself.
Hopefully for all of us, Biden won't have to worry about the pandemic as much for too long. And of course he won't be able to handle the political fallout from detaining all the immigrants that his rhetoric has encouraged to begin migrating. So I'm sure he'll fast track them through.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: I think this is what everyone glosses over, and why Trump
Mar 9, 2021, 10:20 AM
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I'm afraid this is a disingenuous approach to the kids in cages issue. Trump wasn't making a tough but necessary choice. He made a cruel one that he and Jeff Sessions made very clear was punitive, and it was used against immigrants who went through the legal, proper channels to come to America. The simple goal was to punish and hurt people to the point of dissuading them from coming.
The architect behind it? White supremacist Stephen Miller.
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Legend [15730]
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Honest question - do you have any reference materials
Mar 9, 2021, 10:23 AM
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on this to support that claim? I'd be interested in reading more on it.
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All-In [41898]
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Legend [15730]
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Thanks. Sure, if it's handy. I didn't listen to the audio
Mar 9, 2021, 10:38 AM
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but read the article and it is concerning. But what I'm looking for is more of the "designed to be punitive" and resulted from policies pushed down by the White House.
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All-In [41898]
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Re: Thanks. Sure, if it's handy. I didn't listen to the audio
Mar 9, 2021, 10:39 AM
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I reference Jeff Sessions's speech on it and the concept that it was a zero tolerance policy.
Under previous admins, it was only done if the child wasn't with a parent or family. Under Trump, every child got taken and even in those legal cases. Sessions's speech made it clear it was a threat to keep them from coming over.
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Legend [15730]
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Thanks for the below. Will read when I have time. I read
Mar 9, 2021, 11:00 AM
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the Sessions speech differently than you did, but will re-read it.
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All-In [41898]
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And more resources
Mar 9, 2021, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to Thanks. Sure, if it's handy. I didn't listen to the audio ] |
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https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/they-came-seeking-asylum-now-they-want-their-children-back-n886781
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2020/06/17/family-separation-under-trump-administration-timeline Family separation under the Trump administration – a timeline Long before the Trump administration implemented its “zero tolerance” immigration enforcement policy in 2018, it was already separating children from their parents as part of a “pilot program” conducted in the El Paso, Texas, area and along other parts of the border.
June 14, 2018 – CNN reports that a Honduran woman was breastfeeding her daughter in detention in McAllen, Texas, when federal authorities snatched the child away from her. “The government is essentially torturing people by doing this,” says Natalia Cornelio, an attorney with the Texas Civil Rights Project.
https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/blog/asylum-seeking-families-too-are-being-separated
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All-In [41898]
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: It's wrong and it should end. ] |
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Back to answering people in third person like a psychopath again?
Also, you're lost as a human being if you think it's okay or that it's the only answer. There's literally no way to right your moral compass.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 10:31 AM
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??????
Woah there calm down catahoula. Sorry for being a “psychopath”
What’s your alternative? Build luxury suites for the kids? What happens when those fill up? Build more? Just keep on coming! We will continue to build migrant housing! It seems that we have American citizens that are living in worse conditions but what do I know?
Do you want us to release them into the streets during a pandemic? How would these kids survive?
You’ve been reading too much of the insane partisan news. It’s unfortunate to say, but them being put in migrant facilities is probably better than where they came from. That’s just a fact.
Now let’s quit with the dramatic name calling.
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All-In [41898]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38103
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 10:36 AM
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Of course, you are employing a false dilemma fallacy in your arguments, one of most common for the weak minded who aren't capable of critical thinking. You assert that there's no other viable alternative to tearing kids from their mothers and tossing them in cages. You're also defending the practice when an immigrant attempts to enter the country legally.
They weren't tossed into the streets before. They weren't put in luxury suites. They were kept with families until they could be processed. They were only taken from people if the adult wasn't their parent or relative, and then they were placed with a relative in the States or sent home.
Let's remember: You're defending tearing children away from their moms. You're either too stupid to consider there are other viable alternatives, or you actually enjoy the cruelty. There's no in between there.
When you reply to a person's posts, you address them, not talk about them in third person. That's what sane, normal people here do.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 11:03 AM
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I was actually responding to your first statements in this thread. One where you said
“ If you think it's okay to put children in cages under any circumstance, that speaks for itself and there's no point arguing with you about it or trying to convince you otherwise. You can't be helped as a person.”
You then moved goalposts to trump like you normally do because you are completely obsessed and started hurling insults.
So I will ask your dumbarse the same question... what would you do differently than what Biden is doing now which as you admit is putting kids in cages. What is the alternative to what is going on right now? The only options I see are build bigger and more luxurios facilities, or release them on the street.
Now I will wait for you to move goalposts again.
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All-In [41898]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38103
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 11:53 AM
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That wasn't moving the goalposts and you don't understand what that means. You very much need a class on logic and philosophy.
Nobody is calling for "luxurious" accommodations. You and people like you rush to that as an extreme in a lame attempt to defend that you actually enjoy immigrant kids being locked up.
I stated simply in another post. Put them in humane conditions until they can either be relocated with family or sent back. And ONLY do this in cases where the kid is alone or clearly not with a parent.
Stop taking children away from their parents. Period. End of discussion. There is no alternative argument to this.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
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Re: It's wrong and it should end.
Mar 9, 2021, 3:13 PM
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Actually I was talking in response to what is going on in the Biden administration and you pivoted with separating kids ie moving goal posts.
And here’s my point you absolute idiot.....
Humane conditions now may not be humane conditions tomorrow. We can’t just build facilities out of nowhere when we have an influx of migrants. I know you think that’s realistic, but you’re an idiot. Do you think Biden predicted 100k migrants in 1 month?
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All-Conference [400]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 255
Joined: 4/22/17
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110%er [9638]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11391
Joined: 9/10/99
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Obama just let everybody in (Catch and Release); Trump
Mar 9, 2021, 9:29 AM
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tried to stop letting everyone in and created a humanitarian crisis (by trying to hold everyone).
Biden can't do what Obama did (I'm sure he wants to) because of the pandemic - so now he has a humanitarian crisis on his hands as well.
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All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
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Re: Obama just let everybody in (Catch and Release); Trump
Mar 9, 2021, 10:52 AM
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Maybe we should put a mine field all along to border, other than the major ports of entry.
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110%er [9638]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11391
Joined: 9/10/99
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Wouldn't work. The cartels would just send kids through
Mar 9, 2021, 12:11 PM
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to blow up a path through the mine field.
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All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
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Re: Wouldn't work. The cartels would just send kids through
Mar 9, 2021, 7:18 PM
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Wouldn't that work in a way?
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