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Legend [19197]
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Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:19 AM
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Some of you who call yourself Clemson fans, (and I don't mean the the nasty little bird fans who are acting like they are fans just to get their digs in), are like vultures. You can't wait for Clemson to fail on a massive scale. You want to see the worst of the Hatfield, West, and Bowden Days again. For what other than you can say I told you so, I cannot fathom it. Criticism is healthy. Continuous ugly criticism of a team 8-1 is just mean spirited. I haven't seen some posters on here since Dabo proved them wrong by winning 2 NC's. But here they are to stir the pot. They don't like Dabo and want him gone. I guess they want Hatfield or West back.
Anyway, the only way Clemson continues to have success is to have a united fan base. When Clemson was weak we were splintered and fighting among ourselves. That was a dark time-20+ years.
Buck up. 8-1. Chance to again win the conference and win a major bowl game. Chance to recruit well and for Dabo to make changes in the off season (You know that is when he makes changes). Stay on target! This Saturday not just loud but CLEMSON LOUD! Go Tigers!!!!!!!!
Message was edited by: AThomas®
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110%er [6858]
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So if youre not a sunshine pumping clown youre a coot or vul
Nov 8, 2022, 11:24 AM
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Got it.
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Legend [19197]
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What is a "sunshine pumping clown?"
Nov 8, 2022, 11:27 AM
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BTW I never said you can't be critical. I was critical too. So ....
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Legend [16902]
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Hall of Famer [22655]
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Re: So if youre not a sunshine pumping clown youre a coot or vul
Nov 8, 2022, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to So if youre not a sunshine pumping clown youre a coot or vul ] |
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Are you this extreme in everything you do? This isn’t a black and white world. Some of us can recognize there are issues and still be positive and hopeful.
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All-TigerNet [13693]
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Re: So if youre not a sunshine pumping clown youre a coot or vul
Nov 8, 2022, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to So if youre not a sunshine pumping clown youre a coot or vul ] |
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It’s interesting that you post immediately after any positive outlook on anything Clemson football. I can’t say I see that type of behavior in true Clemson fans.
It’s more common in impetuous children, gamblers who lost money, and coots who don’t know how to express themselves.
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110%er [6858]
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What would you know about "real clemson fans"***
Nov 8, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Legend [18836]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:25 AM
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I agree with you. My other post was sincere. I truly had to refocus. I love our Tigers and I remember those years when 10 wins would have been a dream. Now that has happened over a decade.
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All-In [34486]
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Thanks for explaining all that
Nov 8, 2022, 11:29 AM
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Really helpful
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:31 AM
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I get your point but I don't think fans are abandoning ship. I think they just see a program that has fallen down a step from being able to compete with the best of the best. It really started to show in our last 2 playoff games against LSU and OSU. The talent differential was significant and that is where most of the concern lies. We can beat up on weaker ACC competition but we seem a step behind when it comes to matchups with some of the better programs. We fall short on talent and we fall short on execution and we fall short on pre-game planning and in-game adjustments. We still run the same playbook from the Chad Morris era and so defensive coordinators don't have to worry about any new wrinkles from us and are very familiar with what we try to do.
I just think the fans want to see us re-energize our program in a number of areas, i.e playbook, portal, recruiting, coaching, etc. We seem stuck in the past and it is holding us back. We aren't as bad as some portray but we aren't anywhere near what we used to be.
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Hall of Famer [22655]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:41 AM
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That is a very reasonable take. I want to see things get better too and enjoyed every second of our championship runs because I understand how hard it is to do, but I don’t have the coaching experience to tell Dabo what needs to be done. The folks who are posting everything from Cade must start Saturday, to Dabo has lost it and needs to go, to demote Streeter and bring back Jeff Scott immediately, to when Dabo should have called timeouts Saturday are the ones that I cannot agree with. I have read alll of this on here just this morning.
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:55 AM
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I agree with you about all of the "suggestions" that have been coming in this morning. I think if you boil it all down, what people are really saying is "just show us something different," show us that you are willing to make changes, try new things, use the portal, bring in some coaching/analyst experience, adapt the playbook, use a 2-QB system the rest of the year, etc. I think people are most frustrated because they keep hearing how disappointed Dabo is with some of our play but they don't see any adjustments being made. They see a stubborn coach hell-bent on proving his way has worked in the past so it should work in the future. And that can seem at times to be hard to argue with until you keep getting the results you don't want. At some point, you have to start making some changes to get a different result.
I understand that we should not be complaining too much about an 8-1 record but I also think you have to look at who we've beaten and how we play when the competition takes a step up. We need to be built to be able to compete against the best and not just against the ACC. And there, at least for me, lies the biggest concern.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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all of this^^^^^except for .........
Nov 8, 2022, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism, ] |
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we still run the same playbook from the Morris era.
We are so far removed from his playbook right now. Slowly but surely each year since he left that playbook/mentality/scheme has been deteriorating.
2016 was probably the last of the tempo/exhaust the defense mentality........and our talent alone was able to carry us through 2019 (and vs LSU is when our "scheme" was exposed vs an elite team)
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: all of this^^^^^except for .........
Nov 8, 2022, 12:36 PM
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I still think it is roughly the same playbook but at a much slower tempo. Any adaptations we have made have been because of a dropoff in personnel. We have had to simplify some of it because we don't have the same talent we had in those good old days. Game planning against us can't really be that difficult because we still run most of the same packages and schemes, minus the quick tempo we used to employ.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:31 AM
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Before people say you’re wrong and that no one wants bad things to happen, there was a post earlier lamenting the possibility of going 13-1 because Dabo wouldn’t be forced to make changes.
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:39 AM
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I think I made the point that going 13-1 might not exactly be a blessing because it might further lull us into a false sense of security that we really don't need to make any changes after all. I think most would agree that no matter how we finish, changes are definitely in order if we want to compete at the highest levels going forward.
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Hall of Famer [22655]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:43 AM
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The big disagreement seems to be in how extreme those changes need to be. I’m pretty happy with 13-1 and an Orange Bowl win. Not as happy as I was in 2016 and 2018 but probably happier than most coot fans. Year in and year out.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 11:52 AM
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Would it make sense to fire fledgling coordinators that go 13-1? The chief argument against them was their lack of experience. They certainly will have developed in their roles. It’s just crazy talk.
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 12:03 PM
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Wouldn't that be kind of like last year where we won our final 6 games and a bowl game and people started saying we were going to be just fine and so we really didn't change much for this year? We can have good records against the conference we play in but we are falling behind when the competition steps up and I just don't think doing the same things is going to change those outcomes.
Let me give you another example. When I was in school we had not been to a bowl game in a while. We were thrilled when we made the Gator Bowl and fans were satisfied with just making it to a bowl. Nowadays, I don't think anyone just wants to make a bowl; they want to make the playoffs and anything short of that seems disappointing. Right or wrong, that is just what happens when you have a taste of success. If 10-win seasons and a good bowl game are the acceptable standards then I don't think we need to change much. But, if we want to try and keep up with what the other elite programs are doing then we have to really assess where we are, and where we want to be and close those gaps.
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Legend [16902]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 12:37 PM
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If we go 13-1 we will have an ACC championship against a decent UNC team (top 20 in total talent per 247) and an Orange Bowl victory over Notre Dame or a very good Big Team or SEC team. Regardless of margin of victories that would be a far cry from last year’s results. People have very short memories. Venables was not a popular hire. Big 12 defenses were considered a joke and he’d just been demoted at Oklahoma. Chad Morris was one year removed from high school. I’ll continue to trust Dabo to make changes as necessary.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Let me ask you this......
Nov 8, 2022, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism, ] |
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What is your "barometer"/line in the sand to where IN YOUR OPINION should warrant change??..........and no I'm not talking about firing Dabo........I'm talking about making the necessary changes on our offensive staff.
you say a 13-1 record would mean that they have developed in their roles...........we had an 8-0 record and they had not developed......one could argue it got worse!
We hung our hats on a 10-win season last year and ignored the ABYSMAL offensive performance......we're in the same place as last year. We just happen to play in a league/schedule where we out talent everybody on our schedule.
so.........what's the line in the sand for you? or am I to assume your answer is "Whatever Dabo says"?
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CU Medallion [64537]
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The performance against Louisville on Saturday...
Nov 8, 2022, 11:41 AM
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will tell us a lot about this team.
That which does not kill you only makes you stronger. We shall see !!!!
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Hall of Famer [22655]
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Re: The performance against Louisville on Saturday...
Nov 8, 2022, 11:47 AM
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It has already been posted that Saturday was a “program destroying” and “catastrophic” loss. I agree, we can still have a lot to say about or destiny this year. Those guys want to be the first to say I told you so and want to be Finebum or Dez when they grow up.
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: The performance against Louisville on Saturday...
Nov 8, 2022, 12:12 PM
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It wasn't a "program" destroying loss but it was a "playoff" destroying loss. The need for change depends on where you want the program to go. If being a regular playoff contender is the goal then changes have to be made. I just don't see any way around that.
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Mascot [22]
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Legend [16240]
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Re: A healthy dose of criticism...
Nov 8, 2022, 12:15 PM
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DJ can play at the highest level. Unfortunately he apparently still has it in him to play at the lowest level also. Considering how well he was progressing, with Manning award watch list and positive press building, I wonder if he struggles with the pressures of success? It's tough getting people to tick like you want them to.
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All-TigerNet [13478]
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Re: A healthy dose of criticism...
Nov 8, 2022, 12:29 PM
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I think he struggles with confidence. That Syracuse game really set him back and I don't know if he is going to recover from that. Hopefully, we see a different DJ on Saturday.
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Legend [16240]
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A healthy dose of the negative fuel and lobs against
Nov 8, 2022, 12:09 PM
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Dabo and Clemson fans is coming from the Brownell camp's usual suspect(s). Like the Putin / Russia approach - despite having great geography and resources at hand, the leadership there has largely failed and the country and program suffers. Instead of righting their own ship to prosper, they instead go after their more successful counterparts and try to divide them from within and weaken them down to their level. It's a fairly effective strategy actually, as it attracts many unwilling accomplices along the way.
None of this of course will ever make Brad a better coach, or Russia a better country. They can only find improvement internally, whether through changes in performance or the leadership itself. It can and does however creep into the narrative of those adversaries they're trying to bring down. This ringleader doesn't want Dabo and the program and its fans to prosper, they want angst, division, and hopefully a change at the top overall in hopes of bringing the program back down towards the struggling state they're operating from.
It's very unbecoming of Clemson folk, and disappointing. If that element represents some of the core of Clemson's basketball support though, that program is even worse off than we think it is.
Go Tigers.
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CU Medallion [61699]
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In my 56 years, I have learned that some people aren't
Nov 8, 2022, 12:46 PM
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"happy" unless they are complaining about something.
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CU Guru [1425]
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Re: Beyond the healthy dose of criticism,
Nov 8, 2022, 1:00 PM
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It's disturbing to me to see how many people get hard ons for bashing 18 - 20 year old kids.
I get their athletic performance isn't perfect but some of the things that get said here are gross.
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