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Topic: If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....
Replies: 46   Last Post: Aug 27, 2020, 10:11 PM by: elwyn07®
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If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....

emoji_events [11]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:19 AM
 

fight and disobey lawful LEO orders, then I'm going to rethink my priorities on Fall Saturdays.

The weather is great that time of year, and I could do a lot of other enjoyable activities with my time.

And I suspect there are a lot of others like me who feel the same.

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Re: If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....

[4]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:35 AM
 

Not sure if the stat is valid or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if so when the bulk of main stream media and an entire major political party is pressing the narrative that officers are killing innocents bc of the color of their skin alone. Anyone who takes any time to look into the true statistics or even the facts of the majority of each individual case would see that the narrative is an outright fabrication. Until there is enough pushback to challenge this false narrative, ignorant people will believe whatever nonsense they are being fed.

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"Resisting arrest" should be punishable by deadly force?

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:36 AM
 

If only we didn't have that pesky Constitution and Due Process...

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If doing so puts officer's lives in danger, absolutely.

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:49 AM
 

And it almost always does.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


You realize that legally an officer cannot use deadly force

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:53 AM
 

when someone is resisting arrest, right?

They can use reasonable force to effectuate a lawful arrest but they cannot use deadly force. Period. Full stop.

The police in WI, who have had 3 days to come up with the officers' subjective version of what happened still haven't said what arrest they were attempting to effectuate.

You cannot arrest someone for "resisting arrest" without an underlying offense.

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a warrant for someone's arrest isn't a reason to arrest that

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:57 AM
 

person?

Message was edited by: RC Tiger®


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Where did I say that. I said you cannot shoot someone for


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:19 PM
 

merely resisting arrest.

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OMG


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 1:00 PM
 

This is what you said...

"You cannot arrest someone for "resisting arrest" without an underlying offense."

What does that mean if it doesn't mean what it says?

Message was edited by: RC Tiger®


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Obviously an arrest warrant is an underlying offense so I

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 1:22 PM
 

didn't say that.

I haven't seen it claimed anywhere that the cops were trying to serve an outstanding arrest warrant on Jacob Blake. I haven't even seen the police say they were aware he had an outstanding warrant and I can tell it's because they had no idea.

Beat and patrol cops don't know about outstanding warrants unless and until they run someone through NCIC. To do that, they need a computer and identifiers on a person like name and DOB. They were not there to serve a warrant on him and they were completely unaware of any outstanding warrant.

So again, they had to have been attempting to detain for an underlying offense that they had PC to arrest him on at the time they allege he was resisting arrest, which I have not seen them articulate after 3 days.

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Re: Obviously an arrest warrant is an underlying offense so I


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:05 PM
 

1- I don’t really blame you for not knowing about his warrant because the media seems to hide this info at the end of every article written. You can typically find this between the peaceful protest info and the all cops are racists paragraphs.

2- I also don’t blame you if you don’t know what the warrants were for... so I’ll tell you: sexual assault, trespassing and disorderly conduct in connection with domestic abuse

3- can you give me any example of an officer placing someone under arrest without an “underlying offense”?

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I'm aware he had a warrant. I'm saying the police did not


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:14 PM
 

know at the time he had a warrant, have not claimed they knew at the time he had a warrant, were not trying to serve the warrant on him, so he cannot have been resisting arrest for that warrant. Doesn't matter what they were for. The cops didn't know about it so it could not have factored into their decision to shoot him in the back.

An example of an officer placing someone under arrest without an underlying offense is saying they're resisting arrest--you cannot be resisting arrest without having committed an arrest able crime. It sounds simple and is a tautology but it's important and cops do it all the time. You don't have to be charged for the underlying offense but a cop cannot arrest you for "resisting arrest" alone.

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Re: I'm aware he had a warrant. I'm saying the police did not


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:24 PM
 

Could he have been placed under arrest for domestic abuse, as that was the nature of the 911 call?

You cannot resist arrest with some attempting to place you under arrest. None of this has to do with being charged with a crime. That’s a completely different chain of events.

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You can resist an unlawful arrest--and we're going in

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:49 PM
 

circles. My entire point is, even if he were resisting arrest, that alone does not give the police the right to shoot him.

That's the distinction--you cannot shoot a suspect just for running, or resisting arrest, or even physically fighting the police if they don't pose a reasonable threat of death or serious bodily injury to the police or others.

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Re: You can resist an unlawful arrest--and we're going in


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 10:11 PM
 

Play that out please.

You’re being arrested and you deem this arrest to be unlawful.

You think you have a right to resist arrest, fight with the police, or even run? C’mon

We have due process for you to fight your unlawful arrest later. This is just silly. I’m starting to see how people like you are shocked that people trying to fight cops are being shot.

There will be zero charges against the police in this case. Completely justified shooting.

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False.

[2]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:04 PM
 

Merely resisting arrest is not reason to use deadly force - I think that's what you mean. When officer's lives, or the lives of others are in danger, then deadly force is fully justified.

It would be impossible to list every possible scenario in which deadly force may or may not be justified, but when a suspect starts fighting with police, the odds go way, way up. If a policeman waits to see if a person fighting with them is going to try to kill them, it could be too late, and they have the right to protect their own lives with that in mind.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


That's literally what I said--the OP said "resisting arrest"

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:19 PM
 

which is exactly what I was responding to.

I also haven't seen him "fighting" with the police at all. He was walking away and was shot in the back. Police can use deadly force to protect themselves or others if they believe a person is about to cause death or serious bodily injury (just like a private citizen, there are not special laws for cops). I have not seen anything that remotely equates to that in the video and I have not seen the police involved articulate how they subjectively thought that applied.

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There are plenty of scenarios in which suspects are


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:39 PM
 

resisting arrest and deadly force is justified. That's all I was pointing out. This guy was walking away in the clip you are talking about, but prior to that he struggled with police and was tased. He had a knife. He got up, ignored commands, and was shot as he was reaching into his car. I don't know if it was justified or not, but 7 shots seems like a lot.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


You're conflating the two and that's the entire problem.


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:58 PM
 

No one should ever lose their life for resisting arrest. That includes passive arrest, active arrest, fist-fighting with the cops. The law is clear in that regard.

If they pose a reasonable threat to someone's life--and honestly that should almost exclusively be because of a deadly weapon--then that's a completely different story.

Those are two completely separate issues. Most people don't understand the distinction. And more importantly, many police officers do not understand or appreciate the distinction because of inadequate training, poor judgment, not caring to learn, or yes, malicious intent. That's what people want to change.

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Wrong, wrong, wrong.


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 3:15 PM
 

Anytime police are in a hand-to-hand struggle with a suspect, their lives are potentially in danger. If the suspect get's his hand on the policeman's gun, it can be deadly. You are out of you #### lunatic mind if you really think the cop should wait UNTIL the suspect gets his hand on the gun before the cop has a right to use deadly force. A cop does have the right to use force to effect an arrest. he has the right to escalate the degree of force as needed, depending on how much the suspect fights back. If that were not the case, then the thing to do would be for all suspects or detainees to fight with everything they had, every single time, just short of killing the cop. They would have everything to gain (since they can't be killed) and relatively little to lose.

Let's talk about those distinctions. True, a cop can't automatically shoot somebody because they resist. That is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that they don't have to wait until a gun is pointed in their face, or the club strikes their head before it's permissible to use deadly force. There is a lot of in-between there and different circumstance whereby deadly force is reasonable and justified. If you've just had a physical struggle with a suspect that has been tased, and this suspect breaks free, ignores commands, and reaches into their car, it's reasonable to assume that they are an immediate threat. If you wait to see if they come out with a gun, it may be too late. Also, there were children in the car - he could have hurt them or taken off with them and hurt them. The cops had every right to use whatever force necessary to maintain control of that situation.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Here's how that works . . .

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 3:46 PM
 

(Not talking about this specific case) Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the cop has a valid, legal reason to question this person.

Cop approaches suspect (for lack of better word) and questions him.
Suspect is angry and argues with cop.
Cop tries to calm him down to no avail.
Cop attempts to detain suspect.
Suspect fights back.
Cop tases suspect.
Suspect keeps fighting; cop is unable to subdue suspect.
Suspect punches cop in the face.
Cop shoots suspect.

Shooting is justified. Cop never had a deadly weapon pointed at him. There are thousands of potential scenarios like this.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Dude, that's not legal.


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:09 PM
 

A cop absolutely cannot shoot someone for striking them in the face once while resisting arrest.

That's arguably murder, at the very least voluntary manslaughter.

That's essentially what Michael Slager did.

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thank you


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:26 PM
 

These arguments about use of deadly force are ridiculous. They are almost like saying we need an oppressive police state because everyone is so ignorant of due process.

How did we get here again?

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Because we have ignoramuses arguing things like


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:46 PM
 

"a police officer cannot use deadly force when someone is resisting arrest" and that punching a cop in the face does not constitute the possibility of serious bodily injury.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


If you were at a bar, and you saw two bros tussling and one


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:57 PM
 

punched the other in the face, would you shoot the puncher dead?

Legally that's the exact thing you're advocating for. The cops don't have special licenses to kill because they're cops. They still have to abide by the same murder and self defense laws others do.

Sure if there's a 400lb boxer wailing on a 150lb cop and beating them to a bloody pulp, that's a different story but a suspect striking a police offer in the face is absolutely not per se legal grounds to use deadly force.

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Couple of things. If you are correct, why wouldn't every


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:28 PM
 

suspect who has warrants or is guilty be better off fighting like #### every single time? That's absolutely absurd.

And to suggest that's murder is false. If a cop has struggle with a suspect and is danger of being knocked out and having their gun stolen, they certainly do have the right to use deadly force. You're full of ####.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I am correct. And no a cop cannot shoot someone if he's


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:43 PM
 

"in danger of being knocked out."

If someone takes a police officer's gun, that's an entirely different situation beyond resisting arrest and physically fighting with a cop without a weapon.

My entire point is, "resisting arrest" is never per se grounds to use deadly force. Are there situations where an arrest can morph into a situation wherein it's lawful to use deadly force? Of course, that's true of two private citizens interacting. Police don't get special laws about shooting people because they are police. But just because someone tussles with the police, the police absolutely DO NOT have the legal authority to shoot them. That is a crime.

IDK why some people resist arrest and some don't. It doesn't mean you get away or don't get charged or get any ultimate benefit.

I do know that Assaulting a Police Officer While Resisting Arrest is a 10-year felony in SC so maybe that's enough of a deterrent for people not to do it. Maybe we don't need to have the threat of death to deter it.

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if a cop has to wait until someone takes his gun well

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:45 PM
 

he will have a hard time shooting them

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When an officer uses deadly force he has to be able to


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 4:52 PM
 

articulate why he reasonably thought that person posed a risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Obviously there are things short of pulling a gun that meets that standard but there are a lot of things people do that do not arise to that standard. The problem is, law enforcement is conditioned to not give the benefit of that doubt to black people--that's the whole problem.

If they have ANY doubt, they shouldn't pull the trigger.

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BULL S H I T.***


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 5:14 PM
 



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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Nope.


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 5:12 PM
 

You said yourself that a cop can use deadly force if they believe a person is about to cause death or serious bodily injury. Getting punched in the face very often results in serious, permanent bodily injury. Getting knocked out often results in serious bodily injury. I personally know of two people who died in the past couple of years after being knocked out and hitting their heads when they fell. I also personally know 2 people who suffered life-long injuries from being assaulted (punched, kicked, and stomped).

If I ever said that merely resisting arrest is grounds for killing a suspect, then I stand corrected, but I don't think I ever said that. You are arguing against something I have not said. I have only argued that cops have the right to use deadly force if they can reasonably fear being killed or serious bodily harm.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


And people not in uniform who shoot someone for


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 5:17 PM
 

striking them once end up charged with attempted murder (if the person lives) and have to explain to a jury why they reasonably believed a physical assault with a fist caused a risk of death or serious bodily injury. It's a fact-specific inquiry, not a blanket protection.

You wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt shooting someone who punched you. Police are not, and shouldn't be, held to a different standard.

We're so into the weeds here too because there is nowhere in that video where he physically strikes the police. So where is the justification for shooting him, even under your very lenient standard.

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This reminds me of something I’ve read on this board before

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 1:04 PM
 

Can’t remember exactly, but it had to do with our sitting president and perjury and investigations and things without an underlying crime. Maybe someone can show me the difference since I can’t remember the exact details.

TIA

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Re: If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....

emoji_events [8]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:40 AM
 

You won't be missed, enjoy your Saturdays.

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While I think it's great that all these athletes are trying

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:41 AM
 

to have an impact, I just don't see what impact boycotting a basketball game will have.

Yes, there are bad cops and yes there are inequities in the system, but those are also very small - very small - percentages of all cops or arrests, convictions, etc. But those still need to be addressed.

What will earn my respect is for one or more of these celebrities/athletes to stand up and talk to the people in these cities and tell that there's a very clearcut formula to not being hassled by the police. (1) Don't do anything that is or appears to be illegal, (2) if you do find yourself in that situation - rightly or wrongly - follow their orders and be respectful. If that fails to relieve the situation, continue to comply, do not resist, and let your lawyers handle things through proper channels. Those simple steps WILL work.

What will also earn my respect is if they would stand up and tell their fans that violence in response to violence will never bring peace. Hate in response to injustice will never bring justice. Demanding respect for life while acting with no respect for other lives will never result in mutual respect.

What they're doing instead brings attention only to themselves. How in the world will it affect any change to refuse to play a game??

MLK would be ashamed and hurt by what is going on in our country today.

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Google Philando Castile...you are so wrong that it's stupid.***

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:59 AM
 



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And white people need to stop telling black people what MLK

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:01 PM
 

would think or do.

It's getting ####### old. You don't know what the #### you are talking about.

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Help me out here - serious question ...


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:20 PM
 

what is your point?

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Keep MLK’s name out of your mouth.***

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:17 PM
 



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Re: While I think it's great that all these athletes are trying


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:27 PM
 

I stopped watching the NBA about 5 years ago. Stopped watching the NFL 4 years ago. MLB is beginning to #### me off. Hockey still good. College football is the best.

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Re: If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....

[4]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:44 AM
 

Why do the mods allow this garbage on tnet? This has nothing to do with Clemson football and is inflammatory rhetoric that I come here to escape. If I wanted to read this crap I would go onto Donald Trump Jrs Twitter page.

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They are getting the wrong message from media, politicians,

[2]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:57 AM
 

and those with influence. The message is, "The system is against you, so resisting is justified. You should fight back. You have rights, you don't have to comply". That's getting more people killed, the very lives they claim that matter.

Instead, all politicians, leaders, and celebrities should be screaming from the mountain top: "STOP RESISTING! COMPLY WITH OFFICER"S REQUESTS! COOPERATE! QUIT BEING A #### FOOL! YOUR LIFE MATTERS!"

But we all know, that ain't gonna happen, because to these loudmouthed, brain dead hypocrites, black lives do NOT matter.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....

[2]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 11:58 AM
 

I will be watching Clemson football. That's not changing.

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Re: If 80%+ of CFB players think it's okay to resist arrest....

[3]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:11 PM
 

I remember the good old days where a black guy could be beat by the cops on national tv and the first question asked was what did he do to deserve it. Very similar to a comment I heard at work right after that woman was run over by that guy in Charlottesville First thing out of his mouth was it wouldn’t have happened if she had not been protesting those guys marching through the university of VAs campus with torches. It’s always easy to look the other way, especially if you aren’t directly impacted.

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WELL, I NEVER!


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 12:44 PM
 

How dare you attack Miami football!

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg link

Narrator

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 1:10 PM
 

He didn't rethink his priorities on Fall Saturdays

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Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


I don't know, but

[1]
Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 5:14 PM
 

@aacevans® just took you hillbillies to school.

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in the night, nothing warms your lonely gums like a sweat soaked pillow


Oh, and


Posted: Aug 27, 2020, 5:15 PM
 

cotton scout tiger



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in the night, nothing warms your lonely gums like a sweat soaked pillow


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