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YOUR BALANCE
Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?
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Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:01 PM

Does anyone else find it repugnant and disgusting that a borderline NBA player is being hailed as a brave hero, and celebrated nationally, for admitting sodomy? And yet another borderline NFL player is excoriated and ridiculed constantly for his avowed faith in Jesus and his biblical worldview. God have mercy on this sick society of ours!

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Repugnant and disgusting? May God have mercy on you... Do


Apr 30, 2013, 3:15 PM

you even know what exactly falls under the category of sodomy? Bet you have performed an act or two of sodomy, at least I hope you have...

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Goodluck man, this is Tigernet, Clemson, & South Carolina.


Apr 30, 2013, 4:17 PM

You cannot convince a closed-minded Christian they are wrong in what they think even if it isn't truly backed up by The Bible like they think it is.

Going to Clemson was a real test in my Christian faith because of how closed-minded most of the Christians are. The Bible teaches us to not judge, Jesus loved sinners and befriended him, and to accept everyone. The fact that a person is born attracted to another of the same sex is not a sin.

Oh, and sodomy included blowjobs, to answer your question too, haha.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


And here I was raised to believe that the Bible taught us


Apr 30, 2013, 4:20 PM

to love one another and let God do the judging...

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Re: Goodluck man, this is Tigernet, Clemson, & South Carolina.


Apr 30, 2013, 4:21 PM [ in reply to Goodluck man, this is Tigernet, Clemson, & South Carolina. ]

Oddly enough, sodemy and Bj's are illegal in SC, but sex with 16 year olds is OK

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Only if she says yes though....right?***


Apr 30, 2013, 4:22 PM



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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


A nod is a yes in my book...***


Apr 30, 2013, 4:24 PM



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Re: Only if she says yes though....right?***


Apr 30, 2013, 4:39 PM [ in reply to Only if she says yes though....right?*** ]

or if her dad owes you a favor.

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Re: Goodluck man, this is Tigernet, Clemson, & South Carolina.


Apr 30, 2013, 4:54 PM [ in reply to Goodluck man, this is Tigernet, Clemson, & South Carolina. ]

Judge Not.” The Bible says “Judge Not.” Right?

I think this is one of the most misunderstood – or certainly misused – verses in the entire Bible. The context is, of course, usually one person trying to tell another person, a Christian, that they’re not allowed to have thoughts or make judgements about the behaviors of others.

What it actually says in Chapter 7 of the Book of Matthew is this:


1?Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3. ?Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 .How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Careful reading of the actual text shows us that the instruction is not to refrain from all judgment, but to refrain from being a hypocrite. You will be judged by the same measure you use to judge others. You can’t tell someone about the speck in their eye when you’ve got an even bigger one in your own eye.

1 Thes 5:21 By all means use your judgment, and hold on to whatever is good.

Luke 12:57 Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right?

Luke 17:3 If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

John 7:24 You must not judge by the appearance of things but by the reality!

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.

Matthew 7:6 6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

What we are absolutely not allowed to judge is the state of another person’s soul. How can we know? We can guess by the fruits produced (“”So then, you will know them by their fruits.” Matthew 7:20), but we can’t truly know. That sort of judgment is God’s and God’s alone.


There is a big difference in judgement and discernment. The two are often seen as the same---judgement of one's soul.

Here's a good article on the difference.

I will discern a great deal about a person, but I will never try and judge one's soul. But there will be a day of JUDGEMENT.

http://www.acts17-11.com/discern.html

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I hate to say it, but anybody who lives outside


Apr 30, 2013, 10:20 PM [ in reply to Goodluck man, this is Tigernet, Clemson, & South Carolina. ]

a Christian life will feel like a Christian is being closed minded to them. That is because Christians cannot let certain things into their lives and continue down a straight path. Just like most college kids, even who claim Christianity, will feel like they are shunned for the usual college binge drinking (like i did). Sin is just easier so the more you are around it, the more it consumes you. People want to be around people who sin to justify their decaying morals. The exponential growth in all actions once considered wrong, is due to the increasing acceptance of sin.

The people who praise a man for embracing an unnatural perversion are only trying to chip away at the very creeds that birthed and grew humanity.

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:24 PM

I agree 100% with what you have said here. The Bible says that in the end times that evil will considered to be good and good will be considered to be evil. We can see evidence of this today for sure in America.

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:27 PM

Or maybe the bible's wrong?

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What are the chances?***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:32 PM



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bout the same as the chances of the Quran being wrong***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:33 PM



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Both were written by men with agendas... If Mickey wrote a


Apr 30, 2013, 3:40 PM

Religious text, it would #### anybody who left at halftime...

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Bble is NEVER wrong. however you are***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:41 PM [ in reply to Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated? ]



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What about the parts of the Bible that contradict other


Apr 30, 2013, 3:43 PM

parts of the Bible...What about "Do unto others..."?

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there aren't any


Apr 30, 2013, 5:24 PM

The Bible is "inerrant," which means that "Scripture in the original manuscripts does not affirm anything that is contrary to fact."

See here for more: http://learntheology.com/any_errors_inerrancy_bible.html

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Well that settles it...***


Apr 30, 2013, 5:25 PM



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try reading the article


Apr 30, 2013, 5:30 PM

I know you didn't*. And since you went to Catholic school, maybe you would appreciate the Catholic view a bit more: http://joyfulpapist.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/biblical-inerrancy-and-the-catholic-church/



* Since you replied within a minute of my post, you obviously didn't read a multi- page article.

Message was edited by: camcgee®

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You would be wrong...again...***


Apr 30, 2013, 5:33 PM



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So condoning slavery is not contrary to fact?


Apr 30, 2013, 9:16 PM [ in reply to there aren't any ]

The inerrant Bible has been used by men that were sure of themselves that segregation and slavery were divine institutions.

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Re: So condoning slavery is not contrary to fact?


Apr 30, 2013, 11:58 PM

The Bible doesn't condone slavery, nor does it say anything about segregation. As you well know, a text can be misused by its interpreters, but that really has nothing to do with inerrancy. I would recommend that you read the article rather than responding with objections that it already addresses.

Here's Grudem on the Biblical view of slavery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXUs8vtAEA8


So if you know much about the world at the time of the Bible, or about the words that have been translated as "slave," you would realize that the Bible isn't talking about the chattel slavery introduced to the US in the 18th century. That's an anachronistic interpretation, both on the part of the people who tried to use the Bible to support chattel slavery and on the part of those who try to discredit the Bible for supporting "slavery."

Message was edited by: camcgee®


Message was edited by: camcgee®


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Re: there aren't any


May 1, 2013, 10:31 AM [ in reply to there aren't any ]

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Seems to me like those can't both be right

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Re: there aren't any


May 1, 2013, 12:43 PM

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/joshua-esther/who-incited-david-count-fighting-men-israel-god-or-satan

And for something longer:

Who Incited David to Number Israel?



by

Eric Lyons, M.Min.



Census-taking under the Law of Moses was not inherently evil. In fact, God actually commanded Moses to number the Israelite soldiers on two different occasions—once in the second year after deliverance from Egyptian bondage, and again about forty years later near the end of Israel’s wanderings in the desert (Numbers 1:1-3,19; 26:2-4). Even though the book of Numbers describes many of their experiences while wandering through a barren land, the book takes its name (first assigned by the translators of the Septuagint) from these two numberings of the Israelites. Indeed, the taking of a census was a legitimate practice under the old law (cf. Exodus 30:11-16). Sometimes, however, one’s motives can turn lawful actions into sinful deeds (cf. Matthew 6:1-18). Such was the case with King David when he decided to number the Israelites in the latter part of his reign. God had not commanded a census be taken, nor did David instigate it for some noble cause. Instead, the Bible implies that David’s intentions (and thus his actions) were dishonorable, foolish, and sinful (cf. 2 Samuel 24:3,10ff.).

For many Bible readers, the parallel accounts that describe David’s numbering of Israel (found in 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21) pose a serious problem. “Why does 2 Samuel 24:1 state that God ‘moved’ David against Israel, while 1 Chronicles 21:1 says that it was Satan who ‘stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel’ ”? Can both passages be right, or is this a contradiction?

The Hebrew verb wayyaset, translated “moved” (NKJV) or “incited (NASV), is identical in both passages. God and Satan’s actions are described using the same word. The difference lies with the sense in which the word is used: Satan incited (or tempted—cf. 1 Thessalonians 3:5) David more directly, while God is spoken of as having incited David because He allowed such temptation to take place. The Hebrews often used active verbs to express “not the doing of the thing, but the permission of the thing which the agent is said to do” (Bullinger, 2898, p. 823, emp. in orig.). Throughout the Bible, God’s allowance of something to take place often is described by the sacred writers as having been done by the Lord.

The book of Exodus records how “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart” (Exodus 7:3,13; 9:12; 10:1; et al.), but it was not that God directly forced Pharaoh to reject His will. Rather, God hardened his heart in the sense that God provided the circumstances and the occasion for Pharaoh to reject His will. God sent Moses to place His demands before Pharaoh, even accompanying His Word with miracles—to confirm the divine origin of the message (cf. Mark 16:20). Pharaoh made up his own mind to resist God’s demands. God merely provided the occasion for Pharaoh to demonstrate his unyielding attitude. If God had not sent Moses, Pharaoh would not have been faced with the dilemma of whether to release the Israelites. So God was certainly the initiator of the circumstances that led to Pharaoh’s sin, but He was not the author (or direct cause) of Pharaoh’s defiance (see Butt and Miller, 2003).

Another instance where this idiomatic language can be found is in the book of Job. In fact, the situation regarding God and Satan inciting David to number Israel probably more closely parallels the first two chapters of Job than any other passage of Scripture. Satan went into the presence of God on two different occasions in Job 1-2. The first time, he charged that the righteous man Job only served God because of the blessings God showered upon him (1:9-11). God thus permitted Satan to afflict Job with suffering, telling Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person” (1:12). After Satan used both humans and natural agency to destroy Job’s wealth and all of his children (1:13-19), Satan returned to the Lord’s presence. Notice the exchange of words between God and Satan (in view of the Hebrew idiomatic thought: what God permits, He is said to do).


Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face!” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head (Job 2:3-7, emp. added).

Even though God knew that Satan was the direct cause for Job’s suffering (recorded in chapter one), He told Satan: “You incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause” (2:3, emp. added). As a result of Job’s abstaining from sin during this time of suffering, Satan then proposed a new challenge to God, saying, “But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face” (vs. 4). In essence, God said, “Okay. I will,” but He did not do it directly. He merely allowed Satan to do it: “Behold, he [Job] is in your hand, but spare his life” (vs. 6). So Satan “struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head” (vs. 7). The dialog between God and Satan in Job chapter 2 leaves no doubt that what God permits to take place often is described by sacred writers as having been done by God. The inspired author of Job even reiterated this point forty chapters later, when he wrote: “Then all his [Job’s] brothers, all his sisters, and all those who had been his acquaintances before, came to him and ate food with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversity that the Lord had brought upon him” (42:11, emp. added).

In his commentary on 2 Samuel, Burton Coffman made mention that the same principle still is operative in the Christian dispensation.


Paul pointed out that people who do not love the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness are actually incited by God to believe a falsehood that they might be condemned (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12). “Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned, etc.” (1992, p. 329).

Those discussed in 2 Thessalonians 2 made a decision to reject the truth of God’s Word (cf. vs. 10), and believe a lie. God sends a delusion, in the sense that He controls the world’s drama.

The problem of how a loving God (1 John 4:8) can send a “strong delusion” (2 Thessalonians 2:11), harden someone’s heart (Exodus 9:12), or incite someone to sin (as in the case of David numbering Israel—2 Samuel 24:1), can be compared to God’s work in nature. In one sense, a person could speak of God killing someone who jumps from a 100-story building to his death, because it was God Who set in motion the law of gravity (but He did not force the person over the edge). Some inspired writers wrote from this viewpoint, which was customary in their culture.

Truly, similar to how Pharaoh hardened his heart because God gave him occasion to do such, and similar to how Job suffered because God allowed Satan to strike Job with calamity, God allowed Satan to incite David to sin (1 Chronicles 21:1). Israel suffered as a direct result of Satan’s workings in the life of King David, which God allowed. Thus, both God and Satan legitimately could be said to have incited the king—but in different ways (and for different reasons).

REFERENCES

Bullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).

Butt, Kyle and Dave Miller (2003), “Who Hardened Pharaoh’s Heart?” [On-line], URL: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2259

Coffman, Burton (1992), Commentary on Second Samuel (Abilene, TX: ACU Press).

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At what point in history would that not apply?***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:28 PM [ in reply to Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated? ]



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so when is the world ending?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:29 PM [ in reply to Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated? ]

2016 or so?

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:31 PM [ in reply to Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated? ]

Y'all be careful. Liberals abound and you'll be branded a righty!

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:42 PM [ in reply to Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated? ]

If we're going to follow the part of the Old Testament that says men can't lie with men, women can't lie with women, why don't we follow the rest of it?


Or Leviticus 19:27 which reads "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard"

or People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Or Deuteronomy 17:2-7 which states that you are to stone to death anyone who worships another god.

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 7:10 PM

Let's try the New Testament, and the words of Jesus. Matthew 19: 4-5 (When asked a question about divorce) "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female. And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? I'm pretty certain that Jesus was referring to Adam and Eve......NOT adam and Steve!!

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Sounds to me like divorce is an equally heinous sin then


May 1, 2013, 9:46 AM

and there are plenty more divorcee's in this country than there are homosexuals

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


May 1, 2013, 8:17 PM [ in reply to Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated? ]

"Adam and Steve"? Are you five years old or a troll?

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many concerns, here. sad this is even a story***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:28 PM



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i applaud him and his courage. its people like you...


Apr 30, 2013, 3:33 PM

who make it so that folks have to hide who they are. and you go around slinging your theology without knowing what your scripture actually says. study up fool!...

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But for a player like him this gives him more publicity


Apr 30, 2013, 3:37 PM

than anything his play could do. It would take a lot of courage for a player who is already well known because of his good play to come out.

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Re: i applaud him and his courage. its people like you...


Apr 30, 2013, 3:39 PM [ in reply to i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

Read Leviticus 19:22 before u call him a fool. Some of y'all are messed up.....

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Re: i applaud him and his courage. its people like you...


Apr 30, 2013, 3:42 PM

18:22. Sorry fat fingers

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Read the rest of Leviticus 19 through 24


Apr 30, 2013, 3:43 PM [ in reply to Re: i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

and tell me how many of those you've broken

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You realize Levitican law does not apply to modern day


Apr 30, 2013, 4:10 PM [ in reply to Re: i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

Christians right? No, that's what I thought.

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Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


it's "Levitical," but that's ok***


Apr 30, 2013, 4:57 PM



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no applauding here. it is not courage to stand up and


Apr 30, 2013, 3:40 PM [ in reply to i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

claim your sin as good.

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Re: no applauding here. it is not courage to stand up and


Apr 30, 2013, 3:41 PM

Many people do not consider is a sin

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I agree, no one should have to hide being gay.


Apr 30, 2013, 3:42 PM [ in reply to i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

And homosexuals don't have a monopoly on sin. We are all guilty. So guilty, in fact, that the only way we could be reconciled was by blood sacrifice.

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I am not doing this


Apr 30, 2013, 5:43 PM [ in reply to i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

to be judgmental, but Romans 1:26-27 is very clear on this. Remember, it's God's perfect Law that shows all of us our shortcomings.

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Who is in charge of killing the gay people?


May 2, 2013, 7:05 AM

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

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Re: i applaud him and his courage. its people like you...


Apr 30, 2013, 6:49 PM [ in reply to i applaud him and his courage. its people like you... ]

Please tell me the parts of the Bible that condone or celebrate homosexuality? Either Old or New Testament? I'm waiting?

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Can you show me where Tebow has been "ridiculed constantly"


Apr 30, 2013, 3:37 PM

for his avowed faith?

I have a completely different view. Tebow gained celebrity status PRIMARILY because of his faith. How many other borderline players get cut and you hear about it constantly in the news and on ESPN for 48 hours?

Tebow was a very good college QB. Heck, I would say a great college QB. But he was way, way, WAY over hyped as a pro.

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status was afforded him because he is a winner on and off


Apr 30, 2013, 3:42 PM

the field

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Tell that to the Jets***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:45 PM



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Re: He's popular because all of the christians support him


Apr 30, 2013, 3:46 PM [ in reply to status was afforded him because he is a winner on and off ]

for his faith more than his pro ability.

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I like Tebow... but lets be honest. He was over hyped


Apr 30, 2013, 3:49 PM [ in reply to status was afforded him because he is a winner on and off ]

I am not sure if his religious beliefs had anything to do with it or not. Maybe people just like the guy. I think some Christians want him to be a martyr.

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over hyped---the one thing collins and tebow have in common.


Apr 30, 2013, 4:03 PM

I am sure we are going to get just as sick of hearing about collins as we have been about tebow.

The one differnce--collins will be celebrated by main stream sports and news media. They hate tebow because he is a devout Christian.

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Orange Googlers Unite

Save Tigernet--Boot the coots(you know who I mean).


Re: over hyped---the one thing collins and tebow have in common.


Apr 30, 2013, 4:30 PM

great post.. absolutely true!

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Collins does not evangelize and try to convert people to


May 1, 2013, 8:03 AM [ in reply to over hyped---the one thing collins and tebow have in common. ]

gheyness.

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How do you know? Might be out


May 1, 2013, 12:29 PM

gheyvertin' one man at a time. Even our President says Jason has been bangin' with shaq.

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Orange Googlers Unite

Save Tigernet--Boot the coots(you know who I mean).


Re: How do you know? Might be out


May 1, 2013, 8:20 PM

You're an idiot. People don't convert to homosexuality.

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:43 PM

Who laughs at Tebow? Because of his faith and his gregarious personality, he is well-known and extolled as a great example as not just a good Christian, but a good person.

This isn't an either or situation.

I don't like Tebow, but that's because he's not a good football player and gets more facetime than nearly any other player. I can't really fault him for that, though, his name being dropped on ESPN, the NFL Network and any other outlet that deems him worthy has completely wore me out.

Jason Collins is a news because he's the first. He's considered a "hero" because he's the first. I wouldn't consider him a hero, but he is brave and it took courage to do what he did. Hopefully, he'll be a symbol to others and not just a blip that's quickly forgotten.

I have to ask this of my fellow Christians: Why are you so easily offended? Why do you consider any view opposing to your's - be it in public opinion, the government, sports or whatever - an affront to your faith? If you think Christians in the United States are "excoriated," you should take a look at other religions in our country. Not just that - take a look at how Christians are treated in other countries.

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Found it funny he waited to come out after his mediocre


Apr 30, 2013, 3:43 PM

career is over. More like he's using his preference as a way to get another contract. He wasn't being resigned before he came out, now they'll use it as an excuse.

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Re: Bble is NEVER wrong. however you are***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:44 PM

the bible is full of errors, written by men, but does hold some deep truths that i hold onto.

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boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:48 PM



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This thread needs to be moved to P&R***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:48 PM



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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 3:49 PM

I didn't see him admit sodomy anywhere. Just sexual preference. Frankly it's none of your business whether he's committed sexual acts, heterosexual or homosexual.

Personally what I find repugnant is that you'd rather this person live a lie--which if I recall correctly is also a sin--a lie which affects his mental and physical well-being. Instead of saying "Jason Collins, I disagree with you and what you advocate, but you're still a human and Christianity demands I treat you like a brother", you spout hate and disgust.

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Re: Jason Collins extolled and celebrated?


Apr 30, 2013, 7:17 PM

Please show me in my original post where I showed any hate? I am certainly disgusted that so many people fail to understand what God clearly says about this behavior. If we choose to celebrate a behavior that is an abomination to God, then I for one am not, nor ever will be, agreeable to this.

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sickening but what the world has become that if you're


Apr 30, 2013, 3:49 PM

a sinner you're celebrated.

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As sickening as believing sexual preference is a sin?***


Apr 30, 2013, 3:50 PM



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History has had "celebrated" sinners since our dawn.


Apr 30, 2013, 3:53 PM [ in reply to sickening but what the world has become that if you're ]

Every man and woman carries the burden of sin.

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Re: History has had "celebrated" sinners since our dawn.


Apr 30, 2013, 3:54 PM

Maybe it's time to rethink some of these "sins". You can't make up your mind on your own without the Bible and decide whether or not something is right or wrong?

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Everyone's a sinner


Apr 30, 2013, 4:15 PM [ in reply to sickening but what the world has become that if you're ]

so that statement would be true of anyone who's celebrated

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well, there is no doubt the definition of hero has changed***


Apr 30, 2013, 4:08 PM



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As has the definition of Christian...***


Apr 30, 2013, 4:11 PM



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How so? Please give an


Apr 30, 2013, 4:15 PM

example of how the definition of "Christian" has changed.

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I was taught, as a Christian, to accept other people's


Apr 30, 2013, 4:23 PM

beliefs...

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Re: I was taught, as a Christian, to accept other people's


Apr 30, 2013, 5:00 PM

Someone who didn't know jackchit about anything must have been your teacher. Do you realize the absurdity of that statement? Not only from a Christian perspective but from a common sense perspective?

Good grief!

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I went to Catholic School... Nuns taught me that... But what


Apr 30, 2013, 5:02 PM

do they know?

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Re: I went to Catholic School... Nuns taught me that... But what


Apr 30, 2013, 5:30 PM

It is kind of sad to me how many people get the great education offered in Catholic school but who come out of that with almost no spiritual life and with nothing but the most rigidly legalistic understanding of Christianity. The real tragedy is that, as far as I could tell, there were more active Christians who came out of public schools than who came out of Catholic schools. If what you say is any indication, then maybe that has something to do with the teachers elevating tolerance above truth.

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How do think you know anything of my spirituality? And who


Apr 30, 2013, 5:41 PM

gave you the right to judge it? God certainly didn't... My God taught me to love my fellow man...What did your God teach you? And on the subject of tolerance, we all know how much Catholics LOVE tolerance....

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I said nothing about you...


Apr 30, 2013, 5:45 PM

other than that you seem to think tolerance is more important than truth. That doesn't sound very Catholic to me, or even very related to any version of orthodox Christianity. It does sound like what some of the mainline protestants have been saying.


Message was edited by: camcgee®


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Quit projecting your BS on me... I never mentioned tolerance


Apr 30, 2013, 5:55 PM

as it applies to truth... And as it pertains to Catholics, they seemed to favor tolerating the child molesters over telling the truth about them...So there is that...

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Re: Quit projecting your BS on me... I never mentioned tolerance


Apr 30, 2013, 6:03 PM

http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=13856427

I suppose you're right; you didn't say anything about tolerance, you said you were "taught to accept others' beliefs." And that's an awfully original joke about Catholics.

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That wasn't a joke about the Catholics...It was the truth...


Apr 30, 2013, 6:26 PM

They willfully covered for child-raping monsters and perpetuated the abuse cycle...Sounds like they favored tolerance over the truth when it pertained to them...

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that doesn't mean you affirm them***


Apr 30, 2013, 5:21 PM [ in reply to I was taught, as a Christian, to accept other people's ]



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You do in the face of persecution...***


Apr 30, 2013, 5:32 PM



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Re: You do in the face of persecution...***


Apr 30, 2013, 5:43 PM

Affirming someone's sinful behavior isn't the same thing as treating someone well or building them up. Christianity isn't simply about making people feel nice or telling everybody whatever they're doing is fine. It has a real content and a real history without which it would just become another philosophy.

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I'm not affirming anybody's sinful behavior...Being gay


Apr 30, 2013, 5:50 PM

isn't sinful behavior...It says alot about the type of Christian you are to think that...

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homosexual behavior is sinful behavior


Apr 30, 2013, 6:02 PM

I don't believe I said "being gay" was sinful, unless homsexual behavior was a part of the definition of "being gay." At any rate, every form of orthodox Christianity recognizes homosexual behavior as "porneia," or "fornication." But it isn't so much about the particular sex acts as it is about violating a more comprehensive Christian sexual ethic. Sex should be about uniting two bodies in one flesh, so that the two people involved give themselves completely to the other. That doesn't happen when sex is only about pleasure, or only about romance, or only about procreation and natural drives. It can only happen when it is about all of those things. Otherwise it becomes an exchange of services, where you are using the other person's body. But sex between two people of the same sex can never be the kind of sacramental sex that Christianity affirms.


That is the orthodox Christian view. Plenty of liberal Christians try to completely historicize Biblical injunctions against porneia, but they argue from a theology infencted with modern ideas and without scriptural authority.

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Being gay doesn't involve homosexual behavior? Who knew?***


Apr 30, 2013, 6:29 PM



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Re: homosexual behavior is sinful behavior


Apr 30, 2013, 6:59 PM [ in reply to homosexual behavior is sinful behavior ]

Well stated, and the Catholic Church teaches that engaging in homosexual acts is sinful.

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Re: I'm not affirming anybody's sinful behavior...Being gay


Apr 30, 2013, 6:55 PM [ in reply to I'm not affirming anybody's sinful behavior...Being gay ]

The Catholic doctrine teaches that the inclination to be homosexual is not sinful, but engaging in a homosexual act is sinful. Did the nuns cover that?

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Re: I'm not affirming anybody's sinful behavior...Being gay


Apr 30, 2013, 7:28 PM [ in reply to I'm not affirming anybody's sinful behavior...Being gay ]

I'm certain that I believe that homosexual behavior is a sin, according to God's Holy Word!!! There ain't no gray areas in this debate....case closed for me. If you want to be your own god, and pick and choose what parts of the Bible to believe, feel free (will) to do so, but at your own peril in the future. I'm afraid that'global warming' to the nth degree will be the sad fate of those who reject His Truth!

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What I find repugnant and disgusting is


Apr 30, 2013, 5:45 PM

When people use religion as an excuse to be rude. Just let the man live his life. I'll never understand why some people need everyone to be miserable to be happy.

I wish this Jason Collins thing wasn't even a story, but unfortunately people are always looking for reasons to hate others.

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Mebbe he only sux dikk


Apr 30, 2013, 8:19 PM

that wouldn't make him a Sodomite, and it would be OK,

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I find it repugnant that so many Christians are so offended


Apr 30, 2013, 9:38 PM

over gay rights due to biblical authority, but have little concern with biblical authority when it comes to working, shopping, watching NFL, Golf, NBA, MLB on Sundays.

Exodus 35:
Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death. 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”

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Re: I find it repugnant that so many Christians are so offended


Apr 30, 2013, 10:38 PM

Glad to help out! Christians don't live under the Jewish law, because the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus brought the new covenant to those who give their lives to him. Since homosexual activity was a capital offense in that society, Jesus would not have needed to tell people that it was wrong. However, he did mention in Matthew 19 that marriage was between a man and a woman, as God created them for that purpose.

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Well he told them that murder was wrong.


May 1, 2013, 12:44 PM

Wasn't that a capital offense in that society? Everyone sees things their own way, but Jesus doesn't exactly say in Matthew 19 that marriage was exclusively between and man and a woman, only that they became one in that state. He also has some very interesting things to say about eunuchs (!), divorce, and rich folks in that same chapter.

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I guess you don't know that the sabbath is Saturday, huh?


Apr 30, 2013, 11:27 PM [ in reply to I find it repugnant that so many Christians are so offended ]

guess that means college football is out. Dad gum it.

Oh, wait, we can watch CFB on Saturday! Know why?

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John 3:16; 14:1-6


Makes you wonder how much of that is a byproduct of


May 1, 2013, 9:57 AM

the hate muslim extremist have for western society.

Why should it matter if he announces that he is gay?
I would be surprised if your classmates became famous because they were gay!

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his sex life is his sex life. it's no business of mine. but


May 1, 2013, 11:26 AM

i do find it irritating that he feels the need to make his sex life my business. i honestly don't care. i also agree that there's a double standard. tebow was definitely mocked for his beliefs. see the SNL skit and lots of others. likewise, tebow was called out for his faith where others have not been. was that race-based?

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FAT TAX NOW!


Someone posted this on my facebook wall, not exactly


May 1, 2013, 10:19 PM

the most unbiased source, but apparently a church cancelled Leroy Butler (former 12 year packer) who was going to speak to some kids because he tweeted "Congrats to Jason Collins" on twitter.


Will say Leroy was very upstanding by not mentioning the name of the church, because his mama said the story was what was important, and didn't want any harm to befall the church.

http://www.outsports.com/2013/5/1/4290910/leroy-butler-on-gays-the-church-and-reggie-white

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