|
Replies: 103
| visibility 1
|
All-TigerNet [12246]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5393
Joined: 9/12/04
|
So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 6:00 AM
|
|
they would walk out on their "white coat" ceremony speaker because the speaker (a female MD) happened to be pro-life. I guess this shouldn't surprise me - especially at a major University where it seems a protest culture of intolerance and throwing tantrums towards those who hold opposing thoughts and opinions seems to be the norm.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/university-of-michigan-medical-students-walk-out-pro-life-speakers-keynote-address-white-coat-ceremony
Through the years I've sat through quite a few ceremonies and graduations where I didn't necessarily agree with the speaker's message or politics. The idea of being rude and disrespectful by walking out or interrupting the speaker was never a consideration. I don't know if this is now a generational thing or just more proof of how the politicization of everything is eroding our civility and ultimately driving hateful division in our society.
I will have to give a thumbs up to Dr. Marschall Runge for not caving to the activist mob that tried to cancel Dr. Kristin Collier's participation in the event - just wish there were more like him in higher education...
|
|
|
|
 |
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 9, 2021, 9:47 AM
|
|
So many words could describe their actions. Let’s just go with unprofessional ,childish, and pathetic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73737
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Not sure who is throwing the tantrum***
Jul 25, 2022, 6:32 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4974]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 5276
Joined: 6/2/03
|
Re: Not sure who is throwing the tantrum***
Jul 25, 2022, 9:37 PM
|
|
You're not sure about a lot of things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14099
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 7:12 AM
|
|
There is no middle ground or compromise with liberals. They are so smart that they know what’s best for America, themselves, and you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1511
Joined: 12/17/21
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 7:31 AM
|
|
Are they all liberals or just pro-choice? I’m not a liberal but I’m pro-choice with strict limitations. I’m also a woman. That said, it really depends on what the speaker was saying in her speech and her tone. I do agree it was disrespectful to get up and walk out. We’ve all listened to others say things we don’t agree with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14099
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 9:10 AM
|
|
They are liberals. Non-liberal pro-choicers would have just sat there and listened, or not attended at all. Liberals have to be shown on Twitter in the moment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
You don't have a single clue what they are and you know it.***
Jul 25, 2022, 9:26 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5669]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12143
Joined: 9/28/08
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided ] |
|
100% they are. I bet most were women, and he's exactly right - they want to virtue signal their little stand on social media.
The phone has ruined the world.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
She didn't say anything. Her remarks were not about that.
Jul 25, 2022, 11:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided ] |
|
These petulant kids got up and walked out before she said a word. They didn't like one of her opinions, so out they went. Is that where the left is today?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 7:25 AM
|
|
I wonder if they actually read the Hippocratic oath?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
life is easier when you block out opposing viewpoints.
Jul 25, 2022, 7:49 AM
|
|
You never learn anything other than what you already know, but it's easier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17283]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14228
Joined: 12/14/98
|
Oh no- far right snowflakes OFFENDED by some graduates peacefully “walking out”
Jul 25, 2022, 8:10 AM
|
|
on a graduation speaker.
Seems leaving is more appropriate than heckling. To summarize:
1 UM selected a Pro Life graduation speaker. That’s their prerogative.
2 Graduates and others who didn’t want to listen left.
3 Those that wanted to listen stayed.
4 Fox News and their junkies outraged.
If there’s some sort of “respectful behavior” code, then apply it in every case _ as opposed to selective instances that support a partisan narrative. Won’t be holding my breath that Fox News or Right wingers to be similarly outraged when Democratic or left wing individuals are heckled or even threatened. Quite the opposite, many will bookmark this instance as justification- “Hey they did it to us, so it’s OK.”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Yawn
Jul 25, 2022, 8:22 AM
|
|
If you're against it, don't come. Don't disturb the rest of the people there for a meaningful event by turning it into a protest of sorts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: Yawn
Jul 25, 2022, 8:46 AM
|
|
Yeah , sounds like the speaker didn’t really say anything controversial but she was known to support life. So, these docs apparently preplanned their little show. That’s the shameful part.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
What it sounds like...
Jul 25, 2022, 9:27 AM
|
|
Is you and the OP and several others in this thread are unnecessarily butthurt over their actions. I suggest growing up and not giving a #### about this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Making note of the death of civility and decorum in
Jul 25, 2022, 9:43 AM
|
|
the country is a pretty far cry from butthurt.
Doesn't change my life, nor sadly is it surprising. Just another of innumerable examples of polarization at all costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6312
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: Making note of the death of civility and decorum in
Jul 25, 2022, 9:54 AM
|
|
Yes. That is the greater point. Stephen Carter, a Yale Law professor, wrote a book in 1998, Civility: Manners,Morals, and the Etiquette of Democracy. I would encourage everyone to read it. Since the book was written, our political discourse has further declined.
I'm not butt hurt in the least over the walk out. I simply think that while the actions of the students were certainly their right, their actions did nothing to further their cause.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Yup. Once social media cemented the belief
Jul 25, 2022, 9:57 AM
|
|
That the individual outweighs societal norms in any and all instances, the devolution of society in general was inevitable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4016]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8037
Joined: 12/9/01
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6312
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: Making note of the death of civility and decorum in
Jul 25, 2022, 1:45 PM
|
|
Trump probably lost based on his lack of civility and decorum. Glad you could get Trump in the convo though this is later than usual for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4016]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8037
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: Making note of the death of civility and decorum in
Jul 25, 2022, 2:45 PM
|
|
There are many reasons why it would be considered idiotic to vote and support for someone with a severe cluster B personality disorder as POTUS. That's just 1 of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Perhaps it's the fact that...
Jul 26, 2022, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Making note of the death of civility and decorum in ] |
|
Some of the people who embraced Trump's lack of decorum, thought it was cool, defended it, smiled at it, etc., are now in this thread complaining about the supposed lack of decorum from some random med students.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
If I wasn’t clear, apologies
Jul 26, 2022, 10:04 AM
|
|
The “my feelings trump (no pun intended) the well developed social contract we all function under” dynamic I was decrying accounts for destructive actions and behaviors across all ideologies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: If I wasn’t clear, apologies
Jul 26, 2022, 10:16 AM
|
|
I wasn't really including you in that last post. But the rest of this thread is loaded with people who adored Trump for his lack of decorum. Now, suddenly, it's a problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4016]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8037
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: Perhaps it's the fact that...
Jul 26, 2022, 6:39 PM
[ in reply to Perhaps it's the fact that... ] |
|
They whine about my decorum, which is exactly like DADDY's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
This is a non-issue in another state...
Jul 26, 2022, 9:37 AM
[ in reply to Making note of the death of civility and decorum in ] |
|
Being made a crybaby issue by the OP and Tardog.
Every single person in this thread whining about this would be cheering them on if they were pro-life and the speaker was Biden or Harris or any other person they didn't like.
Yes, they would.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Ahhh, the preemptive psychic prediction reply
Jul 26, 2022, 9:41 AM
|
|
Show me some graduates walking out on a pro-choice speaker mid-ceremony and I’ll call them just as boorish and intolerant. Yes, I will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Bruh, preemptive psychic predictions?
Jul 26, 2022, 10:00 AM
|
|
Don't make me drag up your CJ Spiller posts...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
HEY
Jul 26, 2022, 10:05 AM
|
|
I had actual LJD quotes to back up my highly scientific opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
I'm not butthurt, but I think them walking out is stupid....
Jul 25, 2022, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to What it sounds like... ] |
|
and we all out to be calling out intolerance for other viewpoints when it happens, especially at a university.
Walking out of a university ceremony because a speaker has a different viewpoint on abortion than you (and the speech has nothing to do with abortion) is pretty stupid, right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
It is, but not relevant in any way to us...
Jul 26, 2022, 9:38 AM
|
|
Nor is it necessary of a thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
This board is going to be pretty...
Jul 26, 2022, 11:06 AM
|
|
empty then if we go to applying those standards here 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: What it sounds like...
Jul 25, 2022, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to What it sounds like... ] |
|
No, it’s a matter of respect and professionalism. I’ve sat through plenty of events where I did not agree. I never felt the need to act like a child.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
So a person is a child...
Jul 26, 2022, 9:53 AM
|
|
If they decide they don't want to listen to something anymore and quietly walks out? Okay. I've usually seen a different reaction from children when they're in that situation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27068]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15656
Joined: 1/26/22
|
"Pro-life" speaker?
Jul 25, 2022, 8:45 AM
[ in reply to Oh no- far right snowflakes OFFENDED by some graduates peacefully “walking out” ] |
|
Was her address pro-life? What makes her a "pro-life" speaker other than she holds a pro-life position on this one specific issue? Seems like nobody even gave her a chance to deliver the address before deciding they were triggered by it.
Wait until they get into the workplace and discover their colleagues and managers are pro-life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Letterman [257]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/29/20
|
And yet other Tnetters worshiped a guy who acted like
Jul 25, 2022, 8:22 PM
|
|
he was 5 for his entire presidency. Hypocrites abound
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: And yet other Tnetters worshiped a guy who acted like
Jul 25, 2022, 9:27 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Letterman [257]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/29/20
|
While pathetic, this doesn’t rise to my radar level of
Jul 25, 2022, 10:24 PM
|
|
“a big deal” worth worrying about. Just pointing out that Trump supporters have lost their right to comment on behavior of the other team given the type of person they worship. Comment on the other teams political policies, sure. Same goes for the extreme part of the progressive wing. Neither has any ground to stand on when it comes to assessing appropriate behavior.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6312
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 9:24 AM
|
|
These new MD's were well within their rights to walk out. However, I don't know what they hoped to accomplish. The Supreme Court has issued its decision. If they want to do something more than a symbolic and meaningless gesture, they can lobby whatever state legislature they choose to liberalize abortion laws.
I'm pro life with exceptions, but I certainly listen to and respect differing opinions within my own immediate family. It would have served the wet behind the ears doctors well to listen to a different perspective. Being unwilling to listen to someone with a different opinion is not healthy.
This actually made me laugh. Jim Edwards, former SC Governor and Secretary of Energy under Reagan, was the President of MUSC when I graduated. Who did he invite to give the graduation address?--Edward Teller--"the father of the Hydrogen Bomb." We had a few no shows, but no walk outs that I can recall. It was a totally forgettable speech, but somehow we all survived the speech and were not harmed by it.
I'm still not sure why Jim Edwards, a very nice and gracious man, chose Teller to address a group of graduating healthcare students, but civility was more in vogue then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [97703]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64842
Joined: 7/13/02
|
They are aware, they're going to have to treat everyone
Jul 25, 2022, 9:27 AM
|
|
right? Murders, pedophiles, drug dealers, organized crime gangsters, junkies, and even people who are republicans and against abortion.
I fear for the future, really.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
careful, someone's gonna call you butthurt for
Jul 25, 2022, 9:44 AM
|
|
not high fivin' the doctors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9430
Joined: 12/18/13
|
They should have done the civilized, professional, adult thing and tried to murder Mike Pence.***
Jul 25, 2022, 9:51 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Awesome point, because the two are so closely related
Jul 25, 2022, 9:58 AM
|
|
And can only be viewed through the lens of hyper-partisan whataboutism. 5/5 post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1515]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 1763
Joined: 9/6/20
|
Re: Awesome point, because the two are so closely related
Jul 25, 2022, 10:02 AM
|
|
Sorry, did not mean to TU. Come on man, it's obvious CAC was going for the humor and you have to admit that was funny as hell!. Lighten up
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
I forgive your unintentional validation.***
Jul 25, 2022, 10:05 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1515]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 1763
Joined: 9/6/20
|
Re: I forgive your unintentional validation.***
Jul 25, 2022, 10:11 AM
|
|
Now that is funny as hell also! Please consider my TU to be moved down a slot. I'll say 3 hail Mary's for your forgiveness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Well...
Jul 26, 2022, 9:41 AM
[ in reply to Awesome point, because the two are so closely related ] |
|
You and others have twisted yourselves in knots trying to downplay Jan. 6 (and the absolute fact that some of those people wanted to kill Pence and politicians), yet this incident is somehow a big deal.
It ain't whataboutism. It's calling out partisan hypocrisy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Oversimplifying my stance quite a bit there.
Jul 26, 2022, 9:46 AM
|
|
Jan 6th was a far cry worse than, yet has some commonalities to, the pouting med students in that they’re both boorish, uncivilized, uncultured, antisocial, selfish behaviors. That makes it appropriate for discussion. See, you discuss things before they get to a boiling point and you might have a chance at heading them off at the pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
So you know them that well?
Jul 26, 2022, 9:51 AM
|
|
You can determine they are "boorish, uncivilized, uncultured, antisocial, and selfish" based on one action. I guess lesser people would counter that this was their own peaceful way of expressing their personal beliefs at a ceremony, but "uncultured" is probably the right adjective.
Life must be easy if you can pass that kind of judgment so swiftly on this action.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Yes, their actions were all of those things.
Jul 26, 2022, 9:53 AM
|
|
Full stop. Maybe they’re great people otherwise, who knows, that’s not what I’m debating.
What a bizarre counterpoint.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Nothing about them walking out...
Jul 26, 2022, 9:56 AM
|
|
Was uncultured or uncivilized. Quite the opposite, in fact. You framed your original sentence to sound as if you were calling the "pouting" med students those words and not their actions. So no, not a bizarre counterpoint.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
You read incorrectly then.
Jul 26, 2022, 10:01 AM
|
|
The sentence literally ends in “behaviors”. Yes, bizarre counterpoint. “You disapprove of their behaviors? OH YEAH, DO YOU EVEN KNOW THEM PERSONALLY???”
“Jan 6th was a far cry worse than, yet has some commonalities to, the pouting med students in that they’re both boorish, uncivilized, uncultured, antisocial, selfish behaviors.”
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Lol. Dork.***
Jul 26, 2022, 9:46 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14099
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 9:54 AM
|
|
Wonder how many Tigernetters would walk out on Dabo speaking?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1511
Joined: 12/17/21
|
I would never walk out on my man Dabo
Jul 25, 2022, 10:30 AM
|
|
I appreciate and respect him but not because of his faith. I don’t care about that at all and have no interest in it. I appreciate that he’s a fine person and a great leader. The best! There is no coach I would rather have at Clemson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
I believe you. But now we know 120 doctors who would walk
Jul 25, 2022, 11:52 PM
|
|
out on Dabo. Just for being Dabo. They will presumably also walk out on Jim Harbaugh because he committed the cultural sin of verbalizing his opinion.
I wonder how many of those students will refuse to go to any football games as long as Harbaugh is coach. Since no one is there to video them not being there, I expect they'll go. Wonderful thinkers, those kids. Fun world we live in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38225
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Well, they probably should walk out...
Jul 26, 2022, 10:19 AM
|
|
If some other school's football coach is their commencement speaker.
But in seriousness, probably one of the reasons that they walked out is that knee-jerk legislation in response to the SCOTUS decision is looking to target and imprison doctors who perform procedures that may be necessary to save a woman's life.
If you were in their shoes, wouldn't you take that a little personally?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9430
Joined: 12/18/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14099
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: Do we really want to revisit this?
Jul 25, 2022, 10:58 AM
|
|
unrelated. Dabo is pro-life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4016]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8037
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: Do we really want to revisit this?
Jul 25, 2022, 12:41 PM
|
|
So is LCheney, but she's now POS because she, unlike you, supports law and order.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13098]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14099
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: Do we really want to revisit this?
Jul 25, 2022, 1:31 PM
|
|
I wouldn't walk out on Liz if she was a keynote speaker for something that I wanted to attend. I would listen to her much like I listen to you. ***clown music in the background
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17283]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14228
Joined: 12/14/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13968
Joined: 7/3/01
|
Me. But I didn't walk out on him. And wouldn't.
Jul 26, 2022, 12:02 AM
|
|
He has an opinion. I have one. If he's the speaker at the event I'm at, I'll not cause a scene. He would do the same with me. Is called being an adult, is called critical thinking, is called not being a hypocrite, is called human decency.
HTH.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27068]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15656
Joined: 1/26/22
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Gotdang what a great post.***
Jul 26, 2022, 9:48 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24022]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12151
Joined: 9/1/14
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 11:11 AM
|
|
More children protesting something... No one really cares anymore.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5669]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12143
Joined: 9/28/08
|
My takeaway from this is
Jul 25, 2022, 11:51 AM
|
|
more of the left wanting to shut down any opinion not theirs. I don't think anyone on the right is butt hurt or outraged - this is standard procedure in that the left is a bunch of snowflake victims who only want it their way.
They tried to get her speech canned altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34105]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33608
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 1:05 PM
|
|
They didn't even have a good reason for their shameful misconduct, like those nice touristy folks had on January 6, 2021.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
weak sauce***
Jul 25, 2022, 1:31 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34105]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33608
Joined: 9/13/99
|
This "news" story deserves less than I gave it***
Jul 25, 2022, 3:02 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
That's debatable....
Jul 25, 2022, 3:10 PM
|
|
but did you forget what site you were on or something?
This piece didn't seem out of the normal for P&R content.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34105]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33608
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: That's debatable....
Jul 25, 2022, 3:53 PM
|
|
Well, OK. I'll give it this much more:
Roe v. Wade was overturned on grounds that the democratic process is the place for determining abortion rights. Now we hear that a bunch of citizens have stood up (literally, and walked out) in a manner that brought attention to the political issue. They are doing precisely what they are supposed to be doing.
I'd go a step further and say that this is a much better protest than the ones in front of the Supreme Court, and certainly better than the protests at the Justices' homes. It's also a better form of protest than January 6, of course (which was the earlier sauce about whose weakness you remarked), and far better than the threats and harassment faced by election workers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
But aren't they protesting that someone is speaking...
Jul 25, 2022, 4:15 PM
|
|
at a ceremony and that someone disagrees with them on an issue that isn't even part of the ceremony.
That sounds really stupid to me.
Where would one draw the line? They won't listen to anyone speak that happens to be pro-life? What if they happen to vote republican?
To me it was silly and disrespectful and sounded more like bring attn to themselves versus actually trying to make a statement.
What if every time over the last 40 yrs when someone that was known to be pro-choice spoke, all the people that were pro-life got up and walked out?
Falls into the "time and place" category to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34105]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33608
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: But aren't they protesting that someone is speaking...
Jul 25, 2022, 4:25 PM
|
|
To me it was silly and disrespectful and sounded more like bring attn to themselves versus actually trying to make a statement.
This is why I gave the OP the back of the hand. At the end, we're debating how silly and disrespectful it was. Sure, I guess so, I don't know. Maybe there were better choices for getting attention. On the other hand, look at everyone talking about it in this thread (despite my efforts against it!).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 1:28 PM
|
|
I guess the conservative response shouldn't surprise me - especially when the SCOTUS and state courts position of intolerance ignoring those who hold opposing thoughts and opinions has become the norm.
SCOTUS and some state courts have stated the opinions / choices of tens of millions of Americans don’t matter. Government knows what is best for us, so we should sit down and shut up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Actually, exactly the opposite....
Jul 25, 2022, 1:34 PM
|
|
The SCOTUS said it should be up to the people (Legislature) to control this and not a right that was invented by an activist court.
Courts SHOULDN'T base this kind of decision on the "thoughts and opinions" of the people...at least not primarily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
right to privacy was invented by an activist court?
Jul 25, 2022, 5:28 PM
|
|
Just step back and really think about what side of that you want to be on.
This activist court took a right of having a right trampled by the State away from them people. They gave more power to the State by going after the people's right to privacy. That sure sounds activist and against what a conservative typically fights for (individual rights vs Government rights). But more and more, it's becoming clear, that traditional "conservativism" is dead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Rewrite of the worst sentence I've ever written...
Jul 25, 2022, 5:34 PM
|
|
"This activist court took a right of having a right trampled by the State away from them people"
Oof.
Let's try that again...
This court has shown itself to be activist by making up/cherry-picking what it deems to be "historical" precedents while ignoring other historical precedents to take a right away from individuals. It has given more power to the State by going after the people's right to privacy. That sure sounds against what a conservative typically fights for (individual rights vs Government rights). But more and more, it's becoming clear that traditional "conservativism" is dead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40925]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42941
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Neither is presumed innocence but we like that, yes?
Jul 26, 2022, 1:27 AM
|
|
again, think long and hard about what side you want to be on in believing each of us has a right to privacy against the State before you start trying to argue your point.
and this court, in an example of what I'm talking about, is trying to say that the right to privacy is still there for things like contraception/gay marriage/interracial marriage but not for abortion. Cherry-picking activism if I've ever heard of it.
But yeah, it's worrisome that with this activist court, there's nothing stopping them from going after the right to privacy in general and completely ignoring precedent and historical understanding for their own beliefs. It's just bizarre to see the support for this coming from so-called "conservatives."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
It’s funny you conflate literal constitutional
Jul 26, 2022, 6:48 AM
|
|
Interpretation with “activism” and prior actual activism with “conservatism”.
I’m a conservative who likes privacy. It’s not a right. I think it should be. Maybe we should actually make it one via constitutional amendment or federal law instead of it being judicially invented and cherry picked for its applications.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31887]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37176
Joined: 11/22/03
|
^^ You worded it better than I have....
Jul 26, 2022, 11:09 AM
|
|
it's the difference between what we "want" or "feel" versus what the law is. We have ways to make the law reflect what we "want" and "feel" and the courts shouldn't be that way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
and yet that's exactly what this court does often...
Jul 26, 2022, 4:53 PM
|
|
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-historical-cherry-picking-at-the-heart-of-the-supreme-courts-gun-rights-expansion
"In terms of the decision itself, what was notable about how the Court presented the history of the Second Amendment and guns?
Most notable is that the Court says it is going to look to history and tradition, but then ignores history and tradition. The Court says that only gun laws which have historical precedent are constitutionally permissible, and then the Court dismisses all of the historical precedents for heavy restrictions on concealed-carry laws as outliers. The Court says that it is going to look to history, but dismisses early English common law as too old. The Court says that it is going to look to history, but dismisses any laws that were adopted after the mid-eighteen-hundreds as too young. The Court says that it is looking to history, but also says that shall-issue permitting is constitutional, even though shall-issue permitting is a twentieth-century invention. So the Court says that it is doing history and tradition analysis, but conveniently ignores any history it doesn’t like."
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/07/26/scotus-history-is-from-motivated-advocacy-groups-00047249
"Professional historians are already complaining that the court got the history wrong in its recent cases, either by cherry-picking authorities or leaving out important nuance or both. When it came to the history of gun regulation, the court was awash in competing historical amicus briefs. The court chose one side, and in so doing caused historians to cry foul that the other history was ignored or distorted. In the abortion case, historians of the Middle Ages say some of the texts the court cites as proof that abortion was a crime in the 13th century are not about what we would think of as crime at all, but instead about “penance” imposed by the Church — an ambiguity easily lost on people who are unfamiliar with medieval Latin. Indeed, it is worth noting that much of the 13th-century history the court recounts seems to have come from a brief filed not by historians, but by professors of jurisprudence who publish on the moral implications of abortion — well-respected professors in their fields, perhaps, but certainly not medievalists."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
It's key to point out that "interpretation" is subjective
Jul 26, 2022, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to It’s funny you conflate literal constitutional ] |
|
and The Supreme Court subjectively interprets the Constitution all the time. My use of the word "activism" was purposeful to throw back at Flow's use of it in order to point out that the subjectivity of their interpretation is what he and I are actually saying when we use the term "activist court". Much like how the 2nd Amendment has been reinterpreted throughout the decades is a good example of why literal interpretation is not some sort of "objective" understanding of the Constitution. It's based on a subjective reading same as any other reasoning.
As for Right to Privacy:
The example I bring up is the idea of presumed innocence which is a bedrock of constitutional law but isn't found in the Constitution. It's basically an unenumerated right same as the right to privacy. It's been interpreted to be part of the 5th, 6th, and 14th Amendments because it doesn't exist "literally" in the Constitution. And while the 9th amendment is rarely used as a basis in arguments, I think it's clear that its inclusion points to the importance of rights that aren't "literally" found in the Constitution.
It's funny that so-called "literal constitutionalists" often hand wave that amendment away though (like Scalia for example).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
It's hard to be literal on something so potentially nebulous
Jul 26, 2022, 5:24 PM
|
|
as the 9th amendment (again, to your point, depending on interpretation), but Madison also seemed to think that the way federal powers were granted was the proviso by which the enumerated rights were protected. It's an interesting point of debate though, and as I know you've also done, it takes a lot of readings of letters between the Founders to even have the beginnings of a clue as to the purpose of the 9th. As I recall, it was basically a concession to the Federalists to allow for the inclusion of the BofR more than anything, but yeah, it can be ammo or a landmine to just about any argument depending on how it's used.
(edited to clean up horrible syntax)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
I agree, which is why SCOTUS never bases decisions on it
Jul 26, 2022, 5:53 PM
|
|
but I think its importance comes in the historical arguments about how the Constitution should be viewed and how it should be used. It certainly seems to reflect that this argument about the explicitness of rights in the Constitution goes back to its creation and I firmly fall on the side that it points to the idea that there are unenumerated rights we have that the federal government shall not infringe upon(like privacy).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155799]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65780
Joined: 5/6/13
|
The problem there is that, IMHO, a right should be
Jul 26, 2022, 6:11 PM
|
|
a fairly blanketing right if it is indeed a right.
The court has tended to play footsies with the right to privacy and use it as the foot in the door towards a decision that's loosely related to privacy.
If we indeed have a right to privacy, then it should mean that our every move in public isn't filmed these days, cops can't have license scanners and face recognition software is illegal, Hundreds (or more) companies don't know our every Internet search and a perfect stranger can't find out everything about you with a simple web search.
It's completely diluted down as a "right" when privacy is the end-around justification for an abortion, and it's difficult to give credence to the 9th being used in these cases when penumbras are used so creatively to judicially justify mostly unrelated concepts.
Yes, everything doesn't have to be hard-coded in the constitution to be a right, but it shouldn't have to be an exercise in creative free association either to relate an unenumerated right to a ruling, or it opens said right to scrutiny.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Sure, but that happens with even the enumerated rights
Jul 26, 2022, 6:36 PM
|
|
look at the vagueness of the 2nd amendment or free speech and money in politics and how different that's been interpreted over the decades. That's why I don't understand the argument that we should stick to the historical "literal" interpretation of the Constitution when there really hasn't ever been a "literal" foundation from which to work. I understand the argument from a conceptual, ideological standpoint, but from a pragmatic one, it doesn't make sense and is incongruous to the original intention (as evidenced by the 9th's inclusion). (This is my opinion of the situation at least)
There are tons of legal battles over the extent of a right to privacy and it's funny you bring up surveillance because liberal organizations like the ACLU have for years fought for the rights of citizens against surveillance.
Abortion falls under the right to privacy, because it's about a State's right on a person's bodily autonomy. I think that's an important point to bring up because it's not that abortion was given an explicit right, it's that it was found to be protected by a broader right. One, that if removed would have dangerous implications. But I understand that the complicated morality of abortions lends itself to feelings of unease with that conclusion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24022]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12151
Joined: 9/1/14
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided ] |
|
As far as abortion goes, SCOTUS has made the opinions of more people matter. Not allowing nine people in robes to make laws. If the left is going to push its agenda, it looks like they might have to actually do it through legislation from law makers elected by the people. Law making from the bench appears to be over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 2:14 PM
|
|
Legislation from law makers elected by the people? What a refreshing and American idea!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [12591]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6312
Joined: 12/24/15
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 2:16 PM
|
|
It's better yet. This speech was to an incoming class of medical students, not new medical school graduates. They have 4 years of hard work ahead of them before they will earn their MD degree. The speaker didn't address abortion nor anything political.
Hopefully for those that finish medical school at UM, they will adopt a posture where they are willing to listen to others with widely divergent opinions on a host of issues, because that is the reality of living in the real world.
I would wager that the speaker based on her years as a practicing physician could have imparted a few words of useful wisdom.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6557
Joined: 4/11/20
|
Re: So a bunch of newly minted medical doctors from UM decided
Jul 25, 2022, 2:43 PM
|
|
I didn’t realize they were first year medical students. Those kids have a lot to learn!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
What a weird takeaway...
Jul 25, 2022, 6:28 PM
|
|
"I don't know if this is now a generational thing or just more proof of how the politicization of everything is eroding our civility and ultimately driving hateful division in our society."
I mean, what is happening is pretty tame compared to the 1960s and earlier, right? Your quote seems pretty ridiculous considering.
The most emotion I feel after reading that is just a shrug before moving on, but Fox clearly knows their audience will care much more as evidenced by this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: What a weird takeaway...
Jul 26, 2022, 12:25 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
The fact that happened then and doesn't now...
Jul 26, 2022, 1:30 AM
|
|
makes my point and really shows OP's quote as ridiculous. Agreed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18018]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30152
Joined: 9/9/06
|
But also note there were lots of peaceful protests in 60s***
Jul 26, 2022, 1:31 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44031]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32946
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Those students who walked out should be reprimanded.
Jul 26, 2022, 12:22 AM
|
|
It’s disgusting how disrespectful they were.
I would be saying this regardless of the political issue or speaker at hand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55732]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 35283
Joined: 11/30/98
|
stay strong pro-life docs!!!***
Jul 26, 2022, 9:41 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64837]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22718
Joined: 9/27/04
|
I didn't walk out on my graduation speaker,
Jul 26, 2022, 9:42 AM
|
|
but I did sleep right through it. The dude next to me had to wake me up when it was time to walk. I was found in the bushes on the side of 93 around 6am the day of my 9:30 graduation. There was excessive alcohol consumption involved, and maybe an early AM trip to a skrip joint in Greenville. My parents were very proud of me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 103
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
.jpg)
