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Orange Blooded [2896]
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Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 20, 2014, 9:54 AM
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believe there is God. They just want to hide behind atheism because they would rather live their sinful ways than to live a Christian life. Eventually, they come realize it and its usually on their deathbed.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Not so.
Apr 20, 2014, 9:57 AM
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Some atheist live closer to the way Christ lived than most Christians. The only difference between Christians and atheist is the Blood of Christ.
That's not something we have to be proud of it's something we have which we do not deserve. That puts all of us in the same boat. It's grace, the unmerited favor of God.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Not so.
Apr 20, 2014, 10:01 AM
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I found it intetesting that the head or co-head of FFRF is a former evangelical preacher.
That made me pause.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Pot, meet kettle.***
Apr 20, 2014, 10:21 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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That tells us a lot.
Apr 20, 2014, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not so. ] |
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There are many ways for man to break fellowship with God. I know because I've done it so many times. It was always my fault, God never withdrew His fellowship from me.
I've been mad enough at God to insult Him. In fact, I've leveled the worst insult to Him a man can muster. I've doubted His resolve to do what's best for me therefor judging Him unfaithful.
I couldn't have been more wrong. He has been my best friend and dear companion for 4 decades and He's never brought me harm. He's never let things get out of His control and He never will. No matter how desperate the situation appears He's always had it under control.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Religious fundamentalism drives a lot of people to atheism..
Apr 20, 2014, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not so. ] |
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agnostic.
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All-In [38925]
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thank you.***
Apr 20, 2014, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Not so. ] |
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Orange Blooded [2896]
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No true. They denounce God daily.***
Apr 20, 2014, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to Not so. ] |
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Since I don't personally know any aethist then it shocks
Apr 20, 2014, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to Not so. ] |
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me that ANY aethist lives closer to the way Christ lived.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Fastest way to find people living in hedonism in SC...
Apr 20, 2014, 1:23 PM
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go to your nearest church.
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110%er [5927]
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exactly
Apr 21, 2014, 12:38 PM
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couldn't have said it better myself brother. I would have added Synagogue too, because trust me, it's the same.
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110%er [5434]
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Re: Not so.
Apr 20, 2014, 9:18 PM
[ in reply to Not so. ] |
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And with out the blood they burn in hell
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Not so.
Apr 20, 2014, 9:37 PM
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So if you're a great person who isn't a Christian, you'll burn vs a bad person who is a Christian?
This sort of reasoning, that people "have to be part of the club", makes God sound like some insecure frat boy who only hangs out with people who pay their dues. This is the sort of thing that makes me laugh at organized religion.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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You are saved by faith not by works.***
Apr 20, 2014, 11:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: You are saved by faith not by works.***
Apr 21, 2014, 1:08 AM
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Interesting. So here's a quick hypothetical for you.
Let's say Timothy McVeigh, the main culprit behind the Oklahoma City Bombings which killed 168 innocent people (including 19 children) and injured over 600, is baptized a Christian the day before his execution. He swears his life to Christ the day before he dies.
On the flip side, we have Bill Gates. I don't believe Gates is a very religious person, but for this hypothetical, let's say he's a devout atheist. He has become a billionaire by creating something which has helped to revolutionize the way people use computers and technology as a whole around the entire planet. On top of that, he has donated BILLIONS of dollars to create a foundation which helps poor and starving people all over the globe. A foundation which educates all people in countries where women are considered subservient to all men and therefore should not be educated. A foundation which fights to reduce violence in the world's most most devastated regions.
The logic which you use says not only will Timothy McVeigh live in the Kingdom of Heaven while Gates burns in the fires of hell...but you would more proudly stand with a child murdering terrorist simply because he has said he will devote his life to Christ.
Do you not see what's wrong with this sort of logic? That the faith is more important than the works? Don't you realize how horrible and petty this makes God appear to be? Do you really think the creator of everything in the universe would be so weak as to need people to be apart of some special little club which swears allegiance in order to be seen in a positive light in his eyes? If so, I feel sorry for you.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: You are saved by faith not by works.***
Apr 21, 2014, 3:17 AM
[ in reply to You are saved by faith not by works.*** ] |
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To actually move beyond hypotheticals, Jeffrey Dahmer, a man who raped, murdered and dismembered at least 17 men and boys during his life was baptized and therefore dedicated his life to Christ shortly before his death in 1994. On top of the horrendous actions described above, it's been shown he was also a cannibal and necrophiliac (aka he ###### corpses after he had killed them). This man, your brother in Christ, is universally considered to be one of the most horrendous human beings in the history of the United States.
Conversely, Mahatma Gandhi is universally considered one of the most incredible human beings in the history of civilization. Mot just US or modern civilization, but the history of the world. He's a man who dedicated his life to civil rights and non-violent activism and made the world a much better place through his acts. He was never baptized, even though he did borrow some Christian principles (along with Islamic, Hindu, Jewish, among many others) to spread his message of peace and try to create a better world.
What you're telling me with your post is this: in your eyes, Jeffrey Dahmer the serial killer, rapist, necrophiliac cannibal of children is a better person than civil rights activist Mahatma Gandhi. You would rather stand hand in hand with Dahmer at the gates of heaven than with Gandhi, because Dahmer was a baptized Christian who had faith in Christ.
Seriously, rethink your life.
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Associate AD [813]
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Regarding your scenarios...
Apr 21, 2014, 9:43 AM
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I cannot speak to the authenticity of Dahmer's faith. Authentic faith comes from God as a gift (Ephesians 2:8-9). But from a Biblical worldview, his salvation was possible even after his heinous crimes, only by grace (getting what you do not deserve) through faith (which is a gift of God) in Jesus Christ alone. Jesus told one of the men crucified with him after the man's profession of faith, that he would be in Paradise that very day. The evil man on the cross evidently had lived a life of wickedness and admitted himself he deserved to be on the cross (Luke 23:40-41). He was a bad guy. But Christ saved him by grace through faith.
The reality is that a part from Christ, we all fall short. Though I am not in line for execution for heinous crimes, when honest with myself, I can find sin even in my best "works". There tends to always be something selfish even in my good works. I realize I need Jesus not only for the obvious "bad" sin I struggle against, but also for my "good works" that are tainted in one way or another. The only way to stand as "righteous" before God is to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).
Here is something interesting: Biblical Christianity stands alone when it comes to salvation. Every other world religion/cult, that has a view of heaven puts an emphasis on "man doing enough good works to attain salvation". Biblical Christianity proclaims that salvation is only by grace through faith in Christ. You cannot earn it. No one deserves it.
Logically speaking, which worldview might man's logic have created? I would suggest that no man would have come up with the belief system that is Biblical Christianity. When left to man's logic, we put ourselves as central to our own salvation as seen in most every other world religion. Worth considering.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Regarding your scenarios...
Apr 21, 2014, 10:24 AM
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That's all good and well, but you didn't really answer the question.
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Associate AD [813]
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The answer would be..from a Biblical worldview...
Apr 21, 2014, 10:43 AM
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If a wicked guy like Dahmer was given that kind of genuine saving faith in Christ, then yes, he would be eternally saved.
If a good guy like Gandhi, never receive that kind of genuine faith in Christ, then yes, he would be eternally lost.
God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Who are we to argue? (Romans 9:15, 20)
When it comes down to it... "There is none righteous, no not one...All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:10, 23). There is no other name under by which men are saved (Acts 4:12). Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6).
This does not jive with man's logic for sure. But should we expect the thoughts of God to be our own? (Isaiah 55:8-9).
That is Biblical Christianity vs. every other worldview.
Set apart.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: The answer would be..from a Biblical worldview...
Apr 21, 2014, 10:46 AM
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Thanks for the answer. It also shows why I'll never, ever agree with the concept of "faith over works" which is in Christianity--and other religions too. To me it's just proof of a money grab.
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Associate AD [813]
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What about good works?
Apr 21, 2014, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to The answer would be..from a Biblical worldview... ] |
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Just to clarify...when God saves someone, there will be a changed life. A new creation is born, one who now will struggle against sin. Likewise, righteous fruit will be born. However, in your scenario's, there was no time for the evil person (who even if born again) to go and demonstrate that fruit, outside of their few days/years after conversion in prison. Again, I have no idea about the authenticity of Dahmer's faith, but I would imagine those who saw him post conversion either noticed a new guy or did not.
I did a quick search: the following article appeared. I'm not sure how reliable it is but gives some perspective.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2006/11/Saving-Jeffrey-Dahmer.aspx
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/september/34.125.html
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: What about good works?
Apr 21, 2014, 10:59 AM
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Honestly, you're missing the point to all this. The idea that a man who dedicated his life to murdering, ###### and eating other humans is in heaven over one of the world's greatest humans just because he was in a special club is bizarre to me and it should be to any reasonable human.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: What about good works?
Apr 21, 2014, 11:01 AM
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This is regardless are what "fruits" the convicted serial killer shows.
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Associate AD [813]
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I understand your position...
Apr 21, 2014, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: What about good works? ] |
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Like I said, I do not think "man" would have come up with such a system as Biblical Christianity...
We tend to "rate" sin, understandably so. My sin does not seem near as "bad" as Dahmer's. But a Biblical perspective suggest that we do not view how significant our "little" sin is before a Holy God.
While many people will in general says, "yeah, I sin", we do not naturally recognize how big a deal it is. We do not recognize that we are dead in our sin (a part from God doing something about it) (Romans 3:23 & Ephesians 2:1-10).
And as far as our "good works" like Gandhi; a Biblical perspective says that a part from Christ, our good works are like "filthy rags" before a Holy God. Jesus condemned the self-righteous, (i.e. those who thought their own goodness merited the favor of God, but missed their need for a Savior).
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: I understand your position...
Apr 21, 2014, 1:01 PM
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Considering Gandhi's acts as self-righteous and therefore sinful are what make me shake my head.
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Associate AD [813]
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It's not that his acts were not good or that anyone wishes
Apr 21, 2014, 2:37 PM
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he had not done those good things. Self-righteousness is any "resting in our own good acts for salvation" instead of "resting in the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ for salvation."
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110%er [5927]
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Yes I fall short every day
Apr 21, 2014, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to Regarding your scenarios... ] |
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but I still believe I am a better person than McVeigh and Dahmer. If I had to choose, those POS's do not deserve to live in heaven, they deserve to rot in hell. that's just my two-cents.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Yes I fall short every day
Apr 21, 2014, 1:02 PM
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I agree...but using the logic of faith over actions, Dahmer is a Christian brother in heaven while Gandhi's a self-righteous sinner, burning in hell.
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Associate AD [813]
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There is a way that seems right to a man but...
Apr 21, 2014, 1:31 PM
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its end is the way to death. Proverbs 14:12
Either God has spoken to us through the Bible or He has not. I believe He has and so my worldview is informed by the Scriptures.
Others believe He has not and so their worldview is either based upon their own ideas and opinions or some other source they believe to be authoritative.
Obviously, if Biblical Christianity be the truth, then every other worldview is not. If it be false, then ???
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Associate AD [813]
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No argument that you are a better person than they...
Apr 21, 2014, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Yes I fall short every day ] |
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but that does not merit God's favor.
As you said, you "fall short."
Some fall "shorter" than others, but all are in the same boat. They can not save themselves. They need a rescuer. Jesus is the only rescuer (from a Biblical worldview).
Jesus places those who hate their brother in the same boat before God as the literal murderer. And those that lust after another in the same boat before God as the adulterer (Matthew 5).
The earthly consequences may vary depending on the level of the sin, but guilt before God is guilt before God.
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Trainer [41]
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Re: Not so.
Apr 22, 2014, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not so. ] |
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You took the words out of my mouth
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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this is not accurate at all
Apr 20, 2014, 9:30 PM
[ in reply to Not so. ] |
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true followers of Jesus are "disciples" according to scriptures, and live a different kind of life that is set apart. It is true that grace sets them apart in the sense of salvation, but your statement that this is the only thing that sets apart Christians is simply not correct.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Re: this is not accurate at all
Apr 21, 2014, 7:25 AM
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Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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yes. Good support of my point.
Apr 21, 2014, 12:55 PM
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we're in the "battle", striving. Non-Christian - not even in the battle or on the edge of it. Just living for self. There's a great difference.
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Orange Blooded [4144]
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Put them all in a fox hole and let bullets start flying!!
Apr 21, 2014, 9:39 AM
[ in reply to Not so. ] |
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Ain't no Atheists in a war zone!! They all pray to someone!!
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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All-In [27366]
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 20, 2014, 10:01 AM
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I wish the entire world could be like you. What a great place it would be!
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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?***
Apr 20, 2014, 5:16 PM
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All-In [49613]
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Naw! If that was all they wanted...
Apr 20, 2014, 10:04 AM
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They'd be Episcopalian.
Kidding! As a former acolyte, I can say that.
Atheism cannot believe in a god, or else you have an agnostic.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Naw! If that was all they wanted...
Apr 20, 2014, 10:08 AM
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I had it that agnostics neither believed or disbelieved , rather they feel as though humans will never understand the existence or non-existence of another worldly creator.
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All-American [595]
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Athiest
Apr 20, 2014, 10:15 AM
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That is the correct definition. And a great explanation
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All-American [595]
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110%er [8015]
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Yeah, basically.
Apr 20, 2014, 10:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Naw! If that was all they wanted... ] |
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You have the agnostic theists, who do not claim to know, but choose to believe there is a God.
Then you have the agnostic atheists, who do not claim to know but choose to believe there is not a God.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Naw! If that was all they wanted...
Apr 20, 2014, 11:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Naw! If that was all they wanted... ] |
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I'd say that's a very good description. I'd identify myself as an agnostic. I don't deny the existence of a god, but feel that if there is an all-knowing, all-everything creator of all life forms, planets, galaxies and the universe as a whole--especially since we live in the year 2014 where there is some idea of the multitude of the universe that exists beyond Earth and our solar system--there has to be something more to it all than god sending his one son to Earth to show us the way. This isn't limited to Christianity, it's every religion.
I feel like all religions on Earth were created to explain things we couldn't understand at the time of their creation...that and eventually to control people while others could become ever more powerful (unfortunately, I think this motivation in particular has played a very large role in the continuation of the power of every religion, from Catholic to Baptist to Muslim to Jew). I suppose that last point is why I look at modern movements like NewSprings and Elevation (both of which I only learned about today but spent several hours researching) with even more skepticism even before knowing deep details of their church (after admittedly partial research, they all seem to be after the same thing: saving souls aka extracting $$$$ from their followers).
Ultimately, as I mentioned before, I don't think anyone on Earth has a clue. I think that religions often serve as great foundations of morals for people, communities, and countries as a whole...but other times serve as motivations for violence towards others. I don't hate religions, only those who use the "word of god" to spread hate and motivate others to hand over hard-earned money or commit acts of violence.
If there is a god--and I hope there is--everything is far more complicated than the ten commandments (though I do believe they're great principles to live by) and the seven days of creation. This should be basic knowledge by know.
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Associate AD [813]
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Grace and not work...
Apr 22, 2014, 9:32 AM
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You said yesterday that you shake your head at the Biblical teaching of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone...
But it does not bother you as an agnostic that a God that exist does nothing to reveal Himself to His creation?
Examine the Scriptures that claim to be "God breathed" and inspired by His Spirit; preserved and reproduced like no other ancient literature in human history, written by more than 40 different people, from various cultures, context, status; over a 1500 year time frame, and yet one continual story and revelation of God and His redemption of mankind.
Does it not bother you that the ultimate authority for your viewpoint is you?
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Grace and not work...
Apr 22, 2014, 12:39 PM
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But it does not bother you as an agnostic that a God that exist does nothing to reveal Himself to His creation?
Not really, no. There's far too much out in the universe for me to think we're the focus of any one creator. Even in our own galaxy & solar systems, we're nowhere near the focal point...in fact, we might exist by mistake. However, that doesn't mean a higher being doesn't exist.
Examine the Scriptures that claim to be "God breathed" and inspired by His Spirit; preserved and reproduced like no other ancient literature in human history, written by more than 40 different people, from various cultures, context, status; over a 1500 year time frame, and yet one continual story and revelation of God and His redemption of mankind.
Yea, but that's the thing...this isn't one continual story. The bible has been changed countless times in order to appease kings, attract new followers, etc. It's far from being the "pure" word of god that you're making it out to be.
Does it not bother you that the ultimate authority for your viewpoint is you?
Again, not really. I like to use logic. If there really is a god and he created everyone and loves everyone...why can't we just be good people? Why do we need to be apart of some little club that requires we give money? If Jesus was the son of God, why did he wait for thousands of years to show himself and even then only show himself to a small number of people? What about the millions of lives that were lost prior to Jesus? What about the millions and billions of people who never even heard of Christianity? It doesn't make sense.
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Associate AD [813]
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I assume you know
Apr 22, 2014, 3:41 PM
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that there is an alternative view to your own regarding Scripture? (which is where I am coming from). Your judgment that the Bible has been so manipulated through the years would be easily proved if it were true, but no such evidence exist.
I'd encourage you to read former atheist/agnostics like C.S. Lewis (Mere Christianity) or Josh McDowell's (More Than a Carpenter) or Lee Strobel (The Case for Christ) if you have not done so just to consider the evidence for Biblical Christianity. Better yet, read the Gospel of John (perhaps again if you've read it before) and ask "the God that may or may not exist" to reveal truth to you. The Apostle says he wrote the gospel that those sheep belonging to Jesus "might believe" and in doing so have "life in His name."
I appreciate the dialogue with you. Take care
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: I assume you know
Apr 22, 2014, 4:00 PM
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You too. Have a good one.
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Associate AD [838]
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Yeah either that or they think a differently
Apr 20, 2014, 10:07 AM
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than you and expect tolerance for their opinions just as they tolerate yours.
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110%er [5093]
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As a former atheist I don't believe that's true
Apr 20, 2014, 10:09 AM
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But I would hope all atheists find God on their death bed. It is better late than never.
I'm glad I found Him sooner.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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What would God be doing in bed?***
Apr 21, 2014, 7:26 AM
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Commissioner [905]
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I think even after death the Spirit will have opportunities
Apr 20, 2014, 10:19 AM
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to choose God. Wouldn't be fair and I believe God is fair. Some people die young and some live to be old
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All-In [49613]
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I believe all will have the opportunity to choose...
Apr 20, 2014, 10:28 AM
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...Many, however, will have already decided before that great getting-up morning.
I also believe that the Almighty has an ultimately fair and just solution in hand. And I'm certainly not going to be like one of those workers in the field complaining because those who arrived at the last daylight got the same wage.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Re: I think even after death the Spirit will have opportunities
Apr 21, 2014, 7:56 AM
[ in reply to I think even after death the Spirit will have opportunities ] |
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Son, you're getting one more chance everyday. Folks seem to think they'll put off the 'decision,' when that in itself is the decision.
A shot at the afterlife in the afterlife? That's like waiting until you get to the movies to decide you should go to the ball game.
Here's how this works. I revoked my youngest son's DL and turned his car tag into the DMV. He decided to drive in spite of my forbidding. The cops wrote him a ticket. The judge fined him $280. I repeatedly warned him to pay the ticket or he'd spend time in jail but he didn't because he though he could 'talk his way out of it.' When he told Judge King he needed more time King told him he'd had months to pay it and that was enough time. You see, Phillip had time to pay the ticket.
He spent 22 days in the Pickens County work house. You have time today to clear your record with God. He's offered you His only son as a sacrifice for your tickets.
According to the scriptures we'll face God at a time when these dispensations we now live in are expired. Right now we're in the dispensation of Grace. When that expires man will find himself before a Judge who's standards are higher than any of us can meet, according to the scripture.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just presenting the scripture as I read it.
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All-In [49613]
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Truth: If you choose not to decide ...
Apr 21, 2014, 9:28 AM
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... you still have made a choice.
Sorry, but Rush is about as philosophical as I can get on a Monday morning.
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Addict [441]
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Haha right...***
Apr 20, 2014, 10:34 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Nobody will ever know the truth.
Apr 20, 2014, 10:35 AM
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Really, what's the difference between agnosticism and atheism?
It's interesting hearing a Christian call a non-believer arrogant considering there is and never will be more proof of their god existing than another god.
Religion, it's all just so stupid. I would just like Christians to openly admit that the idea of heaven and hell is as farfetched as saving two of every type of animal. I would have a lot more respect for Christians if they just said, "You know what, I just like church because it allows me to be apart of a community of good people who do good things". But, of course, most Christians I know are no more nicer than people who sleep in on Sundays.
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Commissioner [905]
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I was watching the Universe science show the other night
Apr 20, 2014, 10:41 AM
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and they were talking about how the Universe was one Super computer. Scientist use to think the Universe was ambivalent toward life. Now many thing the Universe promotes life. Who would have thunk it? Maybe God?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I was watching the Universe science show the other night
Apr 20, 2014, 10:43 AM
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I don't know, dude. Do you?
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All-In [27366]
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Orange Blooded [2896]
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Good deeds don't get you to heaven. If that's one's belief
Apr 20, 2014, 2:31 PM
[ in reply to Nobody will ever know the truth. ] |
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then they don't need to go to church.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Good deeds don't get you to heaven. If that's one's belief
Apr 21, 2014, 1:13 AM
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Yea but Church shouldn't get you into heaven. What if you live on some secluded island which never even knows of the existence of Christianity. What if you're some incredible humanitarian on this island...you've discovered cures to illnesses, clothed the poor, fed the hungry. Just because a bunch of bible-thumping missionaries never made it to your island, you're doomed to burn for eternity? Do you understand how retarded this sounds?
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Rock Defender [53]
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That's what I have asked as well and have never gotten a good response
Apr 21, 2014, 1:19 AM
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Also what happens to babies that die during birth?
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Rock Defender [53]
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I could also claim
Apr 21, 2014, 1:25 AM
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that I have never truly been exposed to Christianity just like some indigenous people. It's all so ambiguous. God would really punish me to eternity in a horribleplace because I'm a little skeptical of an entity that has never literally shown himself to me nor anyone else?
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110%er [7026]
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Re: I could also claim
Apr 22, 2014, 3:50 PM
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"You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: I could also claim
Apr 22, 2014, 6:20 PM
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So people were just supposed to guess that there was someone named Jesus at some point in the history of the world and he was the son of god and we need to baptize one another and follow the teachings of the bible--a several thousand page book none of us have ever seen. Sounds legit.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: I could also claim
Apr 22, 2014, 8:04 PM
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I like what Job said
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
His account is one of if not the oldest in the Bible. I choose to believe that we are responsible for the information about God that we are given. Whether that is simply the witness of creation or the full Canon of Scripture.
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Orange Blooded [2394]
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Guys, guys, guys.........don't make it complicated. If there
Apr 21, 2014, 1:28 AM
[ in reply to That's what I have asked as well and have never gotten a good response ] |
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is one thing Christians are adept at, it is coming up with an explanantion for literally every wacked out thing that can be asked. That isn't an attack on Christians but more a compliment to them, at least the ones that will actually try and explain it. My experience with Christians once you start to ask any questions that goes against their beliefs, they assume you are hassling them and they go on their way. They always do it, though, with that big toothy Christian smile and that classic goodbye where I learn they have christened me their "Brother" all the sudden.
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110%er [7657]
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Religion is just so ...
Apr 21, 2014, 5:30 AM
[ in reply to Nobody will ever know the truth. ] |
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stupid, you say? While I disagree with the OP, I also don't think you know what you're talking about. Most Christians go to church to worship. Being part of a community that does good things makes a difference in where one worships, but not why one worships.
And ... most Christians have the capacity to understand that the stories in the bible and many of the ideas set forth by Jesus are metaphorical. They are meant to make you think and to teach morals and values.
I'm guessing you also think Christians believe that God is a giant old man standing up in the sky shaking his finger at all of us down on earth. You should take some time to learn a little bit more about it before you call out an entire large group of people who choose not to sleep in on Sundays.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Ahh, it's all metaphorical, right?
Apr 21, 2014, 8:53 AM
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Quite the game of mental gymnastics some of you play.
If by worship, you mean clebrating the acts of Jesus, I think there are many people you can model your life after that do not require any faith at all.
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Associate AD [813]
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Legend [16227]
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Posts: 12771
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Several atheists I know act more "Christian" than many
Apr 20, 2014, 10:43 AM
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of those I see thumping the Bible on regular occasion. Their atheism stems from the history of violence and bloodshed enacted in the name of many religions - Christianity not excepted.
Compassion for living beings need not have a title or moniker. It only needs a heart. A label does not define that.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Re: Several atheists I know act more "Christian" than many
Apr 20, 2014, 1:17 PM
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Very well said.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Legend [17888]
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Joined: 12/24/96
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Ridiculous statement
Apr 20, 2014, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to Several atheists I know act more "Christian" than many ] |
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Being Christian OR acting Christian implies that you have a heart for God.
Just being "good" to others is not measurable as only a Christian trait - never has been.
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Orange Blooded [4024]
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i'm no atheist, but that's ridiculous.
Apr 20, 2014, 11:07 AM
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do you think jews, hindi, buddhists and muslims also do that?.or go to hell if they don't?
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110%er [9048]
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Posts: 13812
Joined: 7/1/02
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What I can't stand is how.....
Apr 20, 2014, 11:29 AM
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atheists are POSITIVE there's no God and that believers are misguided people are believe in fairy tales, etc.
Just how do they KNOW there's no God? They always says that if there is a God then where's the prove? They want to see physical proof. And they're always so angry about their belief of no God.
Where's their proof that there isn't a God?
Belief in God is called faith - that's what it's all about. I don't need physical proof to believe God exists.
And another thing, they always say if there's a God then why do all the bad things in the world happen such as Hitler, natural disasters, AIDS, cancer, etc.?
I'm no Bible scholar, but I've always understood that God gave man free will - he doesn't make or stop bad things from happening, especially between people.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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So what upsets you?
Apr 20, 2014, 12:03 PM
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That atheists believe there is no god, period, or that they believe there is no Christian god?
And that whole free will thing, that's a little confusing. I thought God was all-knowing and all-powerful. I guess prayers are never answered.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Joined: 10/3/09
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Re: What I can't stand is how.....
Apr 20, 2014, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to What I can't stand is how..... ] |
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I agree with you regarding atheists who are so adamant about their belief to the point where they become angry or aggressive towards those who believe in something...but I also feel the same way about religious people who do the same thing. I feel similarly towards those who are far left and far right in the political spectrum as well.
Ultimately, arguing over religion is the perfect exercise in futility. This goes for arguments for or against the existence of a god, or the argument for one religion over another. Nothing can be proven, therefore no one will ever "win".
The best thing we can hope for is people to simply respect the beliefs of others, even if they don't agree with them. This includes things like Christians not openly lobbying against things like gay marriage and, conversely, atheists/gay rights activists not lobbying to get people fired for their religious beliefs (see: former Mozilla CEO Brenden Eich. However I do see the irony of using him as an example here since he was pressured due to his support of Prop 8 in California. While I disagree with his support of Prop 8, I don't think he should have been forced out because of it).
The chances of this ever happening? 0. Ultimately, the idiots are always the loudest and will always be heard.
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110%er [5093]
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Joined: 7/19/05
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Great post
Apr 20, 2014, 8:08 PM
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I tend to be more liberal and nothing makes me angrier than so called liberals wanting to limit free speech they disagree with.
If you want to be able to speak your opinion, you should respect people who want to speak theirs.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Joined: 10/3/09
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Re: Great post
Apr 20, 2014, 8:50 PM
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Thanks, and I'm the same way. When it comes to social matters, I'm very liberal...but I think social media activism, which is used much more by liberal groups than conservative groups, is a horrible way for things to be done because it's so easy for so many to be so loud and call for people's heads about things which may not always be just.
I think Andrew Sullivan, a gay man, had a great take on this subject on The Colbert Report:
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/3pg0sn/brendan-eich-s-forced-resignation---andrew-sullivan
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All-In [42023]
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What a very open-minded view
Apr 20, 2014, 12:30 PM
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I'm sure you'll win more people to Christ with that attitude.
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All-In [29036]
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As a man of Faith, I'm just shaking my head at that view
Apr 20, 2014, 12:46 PM
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I, of course, disagree with their view, but it is shallow and misguided to belittle someone for thinking differently than you.
I've known a good number of Atheists who have searched and reasonably concluded that there is no God. Again, I may disagree, but it is ludicrous to argue they are disingenuous in their conclusion. Again, I believe creation screams for a creator, but I can easily understand others who don't see things that way.
And even dismissing all of that, our Christ showed Grace to even those with doubt. He, according to my Faith, came to show love and Grace to all, and draw all to Him. Your assertion that all Atheist are liars does little , in my view, to echo that Grace.
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All-In [42023]
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Well said.
Apr 20, 2014, 12:50 PM
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I see an attitude from many "Christians" that their belief is something to rub in someone's face. "I'm right, you're wrong! Na na boo boo, stick your head in doo doo!"
Instead of trying to have a discussion and possibly lead atheists to Christ, they instead mock them, belittle them, and tell them they're going to hell.
If what the Bible says is true, those "Christians" will join them.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: Well said.
Apr 20, 2014, 12:59 PM
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I like what the Bible said in Acts.
"The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch"
It wasn't a label they assigned themselves it was a description of their character.
Reminds me of the coots on this board with CU handles that you can see from a mile away.
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Orange Blooded [2394]
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Joined: 11/16/06
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I have no idea what will happen when I take my final breath
Apr 21, 2014, 1:00 AM
[ in reply to Well said. ] |
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but after the last few days and reading some of the "good Christian folks" and their views towards others of other beliefs, religions, or lack there of, it really, really be awesome to just instantly show up wherever they are and be like,"Hey! Look who is here! ME!"
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: As a man of Faith, I'm just shaking my head at that view
Apr 20, 2014, 5:30 PM
[ in reply to As a man of Faith, I'm just shaking my head at that view ] |
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If your view was the majority on this site, this week would have been so much better for everyone. We may disagree but there's something to be said for doing so respectfully. Props.
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CU Medallion [55664]
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Well, Christoher Hitchens went to his death unapologetically
Apr 20, 2014, 1:16 PM
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atheist.
Many Christians I know don't really live as if they know the Lord. They're just scared and want "fire insurance."
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Orange Blooded [2394]
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ATLPAWMAN
Apr 21, 2014, 12:56 AM
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That whole line Christians use about,"I would rather be right than take a chance of being wrong when I die" has always been one of the more cornier phrases they like to throw around. I can't imagine living a life for a God where apparently, at least for some Christians, fear may be the driving force. It is so strange to me.
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CU Medallion [55664]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I agree 100%. But what I describe has been my experience.
Apr 21, 2014, 9:42 AM
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Especially in more fundamentalist/right-wing churches. Not much joy of the resurrection life, but lots of fear of hell.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Thats not true. They are people who truly don't believe in..
Apr 20, 2014, 1:20 PM
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God or a higher power. Also, there a number of atheists who lead much less hedonistic lifestyles over a number of Christians. Your the kind of person that embolden groups like FFRF.
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Legend [15909]
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Good football topic bro. Secondly, I am with the dying on a
Apr 20, 2014, 5:31 PM
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weekly basis; I put a patient in a body bag this morning. I typically see the atheists willing to accept death with dignity, but often find the familes of those who are most religious unwilling to accept death resulting in days to weeks of futile "treatment" and suffering. This is just my experience and one shared by many of the ICU nurses and doctors I've worked with from Charleston to California, private and public hospitals. Can't believe I actually responded to your ridiculous post.
My disclaimer: I have been witness to some very beautiful experiences of some very religious people and respect all of the patients and fams.. religious or not.
Message was edited by: soywaker®
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CU Medallion [51527]
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What is the purpose of this post?***
Apr 20, 2014, 5:32 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Idiots need to idiot in a public forum
Apr 20, 2014, 6:17 PM
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It's how they get their street cred.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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LOL. Wrong***
Apr 21, 2014, 2:18 AM
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All-In [27366]
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Until they get into their first fox hole.***
Apr 21, 2014, 8:15 AM
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Follower [287]
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http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/***
Apr 21, 2014, 8:20 AM
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 21, 2014, 5:49 AM
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Not true. Sinning has nothing to do with it. As an atheist I can tell you we simply see no evidence for a belief in any dieties, be they Christian or Muslim. Plenty of Christians sin, our prisons are full of them. I am not sure how you would know about the deathbed conversions of Athiests. Atheism is not a belief system or the lack of one, it is simply a nonbelief in gods of any kind, that is all. I am also an Asantaclausist as well as an Aunicornist.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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You're a what?
Apr 21, 2014, 8:09 AM
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You don't expect me to google all that do you?
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 21, 2014, 9:44 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 21, 2014, 11:25 AM
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I was gonna post the link to this whole scene the other day when all the religion talk first broke, but figured I didn't want to RIP in peace my Pulse.
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Legend [19352]
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Posts: 22266
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 21, 2014, 11:54 AM
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Really enjoyed True Detectives... Just hate it was only 8 episodes.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Christianity is a crock. Deep down Christians
Apr 21, 2014, 9:56 AM
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know the Earth is not 10,000 years old and that there is no evidence of a global flood in the geological strata. They just want to hide behind Christianity because they can't deal with the reality that when you're dead, you're dead. Eventually, they will come to realize it, but I won't be able to say I told you so because we'll both just end up as decaying matter in our graves.
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Starter [374]
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Christianity is a crock, Deep down christians
Apr 21, 2014, 11:08 AM
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believe in Odin. They just want to hide behind Christianity because they would rather live their sinful ways than to live a rewarding life to please the All-Father. Eventually, they come realize it and its usually on their deathbed.
believe in Allah. They just want to hide behind Christianity because they would rather live their sinful ways than to live. Eventually, they come realize it and its usually on their deathbed.
See what I did there?
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Starter [374]
TigerPulse: 76%
Posts: 344
Joined: 10/16/11
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But to be serious
Apr 21, 2014, 11:17 AM
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The fact that you think that some fringe secular group "attacking" your football team means open season on people that do not subscribe to your belief system really shows your true colors.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Definitely wrong
Apr 22, 2014, 4:33 PM
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Atheism professes a lack of belief in god, not that god doesn't exist. Atheism bases its beliefs on scientific data. There is no scientific data that supports the existence of any god whatsoever. The concept of faith is one of personal opinion, and is not a source of credible proof that proves god's existence.
Don't think of atheism as "I believe god exists". Think of it instead as "I will acknowledge the existence of a supreme being if it can be proven." Atheists don't believe what they believe because they want to live in "sinful ways", they believe what they believe because of the thousands of religions that all claim to be the one true religion and because science is slowly revealing things about our existence.
Personally, I am open to the concept of god, but I can't rightfully bring myself to say a specific religious ideal is "truth" because of all the ignorance and corruption humans seem to intermingle into everything.
I mean really, it was only 600 years ago that humans finally figured out the world was round. And the early pioneers that claimed the earth was round or that the universe didn't revolve around our planet were horribly persecuted.
Humans have barely ventured off of our planet. The remarkable thing is how in less than 70 years we went from steamboat travel and trains to building supersonic jet fighters and putting humans into orbit and on the moon.
How can we possibly limit ourselves to the restrictive nature of established religions when we can see what people are capable of. Who knows what kind of cool stuff science will reveal. That's the whole point behind atheism, why enslave ourselves to the words of greedy preachers when we can go out and find out for ourselves how the universe works and came into existence.
If somehow science can prove the existence of a supreme being, than I guarantee you that real atheists will accept that as fact and accept that a supreme being exists. Otherwise, we are just waiting to see what mysteries science can reveal to us.
I don't really adhere to either side of the atheism vs. religion debate, and I don't have a problem with the way Dabo has been running things. But calling out Atheists like this is pretty baseless.
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Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 22266
Joined: 4/25/04
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 22, 2014, 7:38 PM
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So glad the mods check this place...
There is no reason for this #### to still be in the forum.
But now if a paying member makes a list everyone loses their GD minds.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Atheism is a crock. Deep down atheist
Apr 22, 2014, 7:41 PM
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I had a tongue in cheek post about tipping waitresses moved yesterday. I don't git it.
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