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CU Guru [1381]
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What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 16, 2021, 11:06 PM
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First off this not meant to argue or convert anyone this way or that. I do enjoy talking with people with different views than mine tho, although some get bent about doing that.
I’m curious about what in your life made you have faith, or question it. I know there’s some on here that are devout Christians of various types and some that were, and there’s atheists and agnostics (like me). What shaped that? Or do you just believe coz someone told you you should.? Or just in case?
About me: I spent a lot of time with my Grandparents as a child. My Grans were church goers, but my Gramama because a devout Southern Baptist later in life ( like most of my family). She’d drag us kids to church not only on Sundays for an ALL DAY revivals, but also Weds and other days. My parents were not all that religious, but went to church now and then. They allowed us to question things, much to my Grannies chagrin.... we often got the line “the lord works in mysterious ways” or some bible passage which may or may not contradict the one asked about last time. Nonetheless I read the Bible and likely know it as well as most people (or did at one time) I continued to question and quite frankly the organized religion doctrine just doesn’t make sense. I am agnostic (not atheist). I don’t claim to know anything as factual, and I’m skeptic all of anyone who claims to. I believe there could be some type of cosmic force, perhaps something brains can’t even comprehend, but who knows.
How bout you?
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All-TigerNet [13001]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 16, 2021, 11:09 PM
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I don’t believe in anyone’s convictions, unless they are holding a rattlesnake. Everything else is just fund raising.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 16, 2021, 11:53 PM
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Hall of Famer [24448]
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Good question. For me it began small, mostly historical.
May 17, 2021, 12:54 AM
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I figured that the only thing that really mattered was whether the accounts of Jesus's life were accurate: did the execution and resurrection take place? If not, the bible could be rejected. If so, a decision had to be made.
Of course one cannot determine whether any historical document is accurate simply by reading that document. The document and the things it reports have to be assessed. There is a known process for this which is applied to any historical document - it's how we know history from story - and it can be applied to the NT documents. What all that entails is another subject, so I'll just say I decided that the best explanation for the existence of the accounts is that they are accurate in the major points. The reported events of Jesus's occurred.
So, the beginning of my faith was quite small, me basically saying, "Okay, if that actually happened, I'll do as you told Peter, John, etc: trade what I know of self and this world for whatever you have for me."
The faith I have today is the result of what I have seen Him since do in my life. The NT describes a radically different identity for me than the one I had adopted and built secularly, and seeing one replace the other has been a growing thing. It hasn't happened academically - not in church or by intellectually understanding the bible - but relationally, Him patiently waiting on me to adopt each new understanding of what He gave me the day He died for me. Some of those are not easy to accept, at first, freeing though they might be.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Good question. For me it began small, mostly historical.
May 17, 2021, 6:24 AM
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I guess I was lucky. I was raised by Godly parents and grandparents. They were not the kind of people who just gave lip service to their faith but lived it in front of me. I saw how real their faith was to them. I accepted Christ as a teenager one Sunday morning in our church. I’ll never forget how stunned I was when I returned to my pew and saw my tough old dairy farmer grandpa crying like a baby and telling me how he had long prayed for this day. I’m now 56. Christ has shown me on many occasions through my life that He is very real. There are too many to mention. But God does indeed speak through the quiet , comforting voice when I’m paying attention. With each year I become more certain He is real, Christ died for us because He loves us, an He has prepared a place for us if we are willing to just accept His free saving grace.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Good question. For me it began small, mostly historical.
May 17, 2021, 7:50 AM
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Well said, sir.
I've always had my doubts, I'll be honest. I've struggled with belief my entire life. My life, especially my family life, was not...pretty, and finding God's grace has been difficult, if not impossible, through much of that. "Agnostic" is pretty much a permanent state of being with me: when the Big Bang went "Boom", when God created the Heavens and the Earth, when Gaia the Earth Mother gave birth to the World, when Hecate snipped the thread of Fate and started the world spinning...I dunno, I wasn't there, I'm not qualified to have an opinion. Inasmuch as I believe, it's always been the faith of those such as yourself that has inspired me, and it's been the slavish hypocrisy of televangelists, public figures, and politicians, and so many around me in real life that in no way give themselves a free pass and no way practice what they preach or feel the love or faith they pretend to preach that so often drives me away from it.
And yet, the older I get, the more I see, there's this...thing I see, this thing I feel, this structured, ordered beauty to the universe that could not have happened by accident. In the words of Francis Bacon: "A little knowledge drives man away from God, but deeper knowledge brings him back."
I suspect faith is not supposed to be a simple insurance plan for the Hereafter. It's supposed to be a state of grace.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: Good question. For me it began small, mostly historical.
May 17, 2021, 4:18 PM
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Really enjoyed reading your honest words. You might want to check out Romans 1:20. It says pretty much what you said in your next to last paragraph.
I often hear people say they struggle with faith because of insincere people in the church. It’s very true that the church has plenty of hypocrites. I’ve been in church my entire life and to this day I’m active and teach in my church. Some of my worst hurts have come from church folk. But I try to remember it’s Christ I am to follow and not people. People will let you down. People will hurt you. I will let you down if you hang around me long enough because I am human and I fail. Several times I’ve actually taken a spiritual spanking from something I said on this forum. It’s like God says to me “you really suck at representing me”. He’s right. I guess one of my biggest fears is that I will turn someone away from God because of something stupid I say or do. When I do I try to apologize and be better.
Really liked your last paragraph also!! Very true.
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CU Medallion [59974]
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I grew up in church every Sunday.
May 17, 2021, 7:50 AM
[ in reply to Good question. For me it began small, mostly historical. ] |
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My parents and grandparents attended the same little Methodist church their entire lives. I believe in the scripture and I struggle with some of the concepts and life challenges, just like everyone else.
For me its about community. My church is my Community Center. I like being there with fellow believers and I like being able to go to one spot to reflect, center myself and get going for the next week. I am a traditional Methodist guy, I am not a rock band church or "Christian Church" type of guy.
This pandemic has been really hard on me because I have missed that community. Virtually just isnt the same and is at times completely worthless for me. I have struggled this year with my faith being as there has been SO MUCH down time that I have to think about losing my parents at such a young age and how that has affected my faith. I have too much time to dwell on my past and bad decisions and I find myself constantly praying for forgiveness instead of focusing on praying for others.
My parents and grandparents definitely shaped my religious belief, but its like now as an adult with kids and little to no family left, its up to me to make it all make sense and its really tough at times. I have a bible that I got from my parents when I was going off to college. Sometimes I just hold it and pray. That has really become the new church until we can open up the doors again.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 7:34 AM
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After growing up in church and thinking being a Christian was about one thing, and then finally reading the Bible for myself and seeing that today’s “church” is not much like the early Christian churches I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s not real. I still believe in a higher power of some sort.
The thing that really was really eye opening was learning how the “Bible” came together. It’s really a collection of books by dozens of different authors. The funny thing is that nowhere in the New Testament does it say that it is “scripture” or divine in anyway. Jesus and Paul referred to the Old Testament as scripture but there is really nothing to support that view of the New Testament.
It’s also strange how Paul’s teachings seem to be in conflict with Jesus’ and how the church puts more stock in what the former said than the person they claim was the son of god.
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All-In [46795]
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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At one time I believed that.
May 21, 2021, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of? ] |
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I believed today's churches were not like the early churches. The truth is revealed in Paul's letters to those churches. Read Corinthians and imagine having the guy who was doing his father's wife in you local congregation or people expanding the services to include feasting and getting drunk.
Sometimes we fail to remember that The Church is the body of Christ and local gatherings may have only a handful of those who are The Church. I still remember being a member of Geer Memorial in Easley when several deacons got saved during a revival. One of them was near 70 yrs old and had been a deacon for decades. It blessed my heart to see him confess his soul and profess his faith before 70 or 80 people who thought he was a Christian for so long. I resolved to the fact that now I knew at least some of the deacons were true believers.
If you're going to criticize hypocrites you might want to focus on me. I may be the least like Christ here yet there is no doubt in my heart or soul as to who God is, how or why He sent His Only Son and my relationship to Him.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: At one time I believed that.
May 22, 2021, 9:36 AM
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What I mean is today’s churches are more like social clubs, focused on entertaining on Sunday morning, improving their attendance and tithing, and pleasing the “faithful” members, which are considered the ones who have the best attendance and tithe the most. The go out and hire a pastor like they are hiring a football coach. Picking the candidate with the experience and worship style that think will suit their congregation the best.
The early church was a simple gathering of believers that focused on spreading the gospel and helping the poor.
Christians today sit in their comfort zone, judging everyone with a different belief or lifestyle, and consider themselves doing the lords work because they vote republican and unapologetically pray before they eat at a restaurant.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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Yes, we now have itching ears.
May 22, 2021, 10:08 AM
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I agree, there are few real preachers left and they are far between. That doesn't excuse me or anyone who has God's Word at his fingertips and God's Spirit knocking at the door of his heart seeking his fellowship.
2 Timothy chpt 4
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I understand as well as you the issues of today and also wish for the days when I could enter a building called a church and have God's man speak God's truth to my soul as it was in days past. I am thankful that I live during the time when a man could walk into any Baptist Church and hear the Word of God preached without hesitation.
Those days are gone. One of three things will happen when God's man takes the pulpit. People will get right with God or they will get rid of the man who they believe is torturing them. What we have today is the third option. Dead people who are deaf to the truth because of their itching ears seek to be appeased rather that leave their worldly lust.
That's not your fault and I don't think it's mine either. It's not something that the body of believers did. It's an adjustment to church organizations toward increased membership. Evangelism is almost invisible. It's hidden behind TV preachers who are mostly guilty of false and unsound doctrine.
5. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
You have complaints? Laugh out loud, you should sit across the table from me see me grieve.
So what have we now? We have our personal relationship with Christ which is exactly what we had in the beginning. Return now, return to your first love and lay aside your judgement of the false churches. Find yourself again in God's Word and rather than praying 'God, open Your Word to me, pray, 'Father, open me to Your Word and return me to fellowship and the joy which I once had.'
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [46795]
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Grew up in church. Parents are both founding members
May 17, 2021, 7:49 AM
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and deacons/secretary/security etc.
Always been behind the scenes in churches. Even was a youth pastor before.
Saw all of the awful #### that happens behind closed doors in multiple churches. Some of the worse people I've ever met were in church.
Decided that I needed to find out what was real for myself because if this is Christianity I want no part of it.
Read through the Bible twice. Cover to cover (admittedly I did skip some of the "begats" in Numbers)
After reading through twice, I started reverse thinking/studying. I have framed everything in the context of God being real. What if I framed thinking, and studying in the frame of God not being real. The not being real made a lot more sense. I realized there was no way I could believe any of it. Great stores. Historical book. That's about it.
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All-In [42020]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 8:00 AM
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I didn't grow up in a household that pushed religion hard, although my grandparents on one side were very devout and big players in their local Baptist church. I actually explored a lot of Christianity on my own, reading the Bible cover-to-cover by the time I was 13. I felt a connection and prayed, but didn't really feel I became "saved" until age 16.
I would attend church on my own. Almost every Sunday, I was there while the rest of the family stayed home.
In college, I didn't go to church often but still maintained my faith, often times feeling guilty for how much I partied and such.
After college, on my job, that's when things started to slip. I know one of the great myths I've seen posted here is, "Well, you must not have been that strong in your faith if you lost it." That's easy to say when you haven't walked in someone's shoes or been through what they have.
I saw too many tragedies. Too many kids' bodies pulled out of ponds and such. Too many cases of people abused in society. Too many people who maintained their faith and called out to God for help and it never came.
One time in bond court, I was there for the bond hearing of a man who had stalked, raped, and murdered a 25-year-old woman as she tried to move out of her apartment. She had a huge, bright future ahead of her and this creep cut it short. As her parents stood there on the other end of the court from him, the dad turned to him and forgave him. Because that's what his daughter would do.
Some may look at that story and marvel at the family's strength through religion, and in a way, I do too. But it also disturbed me to no end: this young woman was incredible, from what everyone said. And this family had her snatched from them. And within 24 hours, because that's what they thought God wanted of them, they forgave him?
I spent more time researching Christianity and discovering many of the factual problems as well as the manipulation of the Bible and ideology over time by the Catholic Church to maintain power (and the fictionalized and exaggerated concept of Satan for fear).
All of these things compounded my loss of faith. The nail in the coffin came a few years ago when I experienced my own tragedy and lost someone special to me... another person ripped from the world in a horrible way, and a person who had such a promising future.
I'm not an atheist. I do still believe there's something out there. I'm willing to entertain there's an omnipotent being that created all of us. I just don't believe Christianity got it right, and I'm certainly not on board with a "believe in this or burn for eternity" ideology.
I'm not the first one to say this, but if there's a God, if he's all good, he's certainly not all powerful. And if he's all powerful, he sure as #### isn't all good.
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Legend [16646]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2023, 7:37 AM
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Grew up with a fair amount of 'church'...yinged and yanged through the years wrestling with 'religion' vs 'faith'. Long-story, short (for the TLDR crowd), religion does nothing for me...but my faith hasn't wavered. For me, questioning/wondering is therapeutic while the message of religion tends to contradict, or steer one away from thinking for themselves. Again, for me...not others. As a species, we use fear to drive agendas nonstop, and again, for me, religion is Exhibit A. One can't tour an Auschwitz and justify in any way, shape, or form religious doctrine. And that's not the only example. (Say, a 4-year old found murdered in a street. Found? Found?)
I look around and marvel at Nature ignoring our species arrogance, and skyward convinced there's little justification to suggest that Earth is 'it' and 'it' alone. Again...how it works for me. To each, his/her own.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [42020]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:00 AM
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You mentioned the serpent in Genesis in another thread yet you don’t seem to recall what happened right after that...when God told Adam and Eve that the deal about the soil, getting struck on the heel and painful childbirth and all that.
Why would you conclude I don't recall that? We weren't discussing the events that transpired afterwards.
It’s spelled out in the first Book of the Bible that there will be suffering. In addition, it’s said that Christians will face suffering as well as persecution for their faith. Numerous Biblical Christians are jailed, tortured, beheaded, etc. Look at John the Baptist. Look at Job. Read Ecclesiastes.
I've read the Bible and I know that and all of that stuff can #### right off. Too many terrible people get away with their crap and too many amazing people who had bright futures ahead of them were cut short.
While it’s terrible to suffer through or even witness any tragedy, if you truly believe, you believe this isn’t the endgame. Your life and belief here on Earth, no matter how short or tragic it might be, determines your eternity.
One can only see so much of it, and then all that doesn't make sense. My best friend was an EMT and can say the same thing. He's seen too much of his share to subscribe to the beliefs.
. I do believe though that there are definitely forces of good and evil in the world.
And as an agnostic, I'll entertain this notion. I just don't think it's anything we have defined yet on Earth.
I believe some of those tragedies you spoke of were the work of Satan and evil and designed to sow doubt in those families and others. The deal is in how you respond...if you take the long view.
If God sat back and let Satan cause the tragedy I experienced a few years ago and that destroyed so many other people's lives, then I'm going to have a very hard time understanding his "plan".
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:10 AM
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All-In [42020]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:14 AM
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I never claimed God didn't exist. Thus my agnostic label.
I know it states in the first book there will be suffering: It's a lame explanation derived from a pathetic story. Oh, one guy ate an apple he wasn't supposed to and now all the good people on Earth have to suffer horrible because of that one decision.
And then they have to leave the garden and after I banish their son, he has to go find all the mysterious people who were created but not mentioned until now when it is convenient to the story.
It's fiction. It's a parable. It's no different than Greek mythology to teach a lesson, or an Aesop fable.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:31 AM
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All-In [42020]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:33 AM
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That's great you see it as a parable, but many of the faith see it as a literal. I personally know people who absolutely think Earth is a few thousand years old and that Genesis is 100 percent fact. That's a problem because they use the story to justify the suffering.
You at least recognize it's a parable, but that creates another problem: If it's not real, how can anyone justify using a story like that to explain/defend the suffering of the world?
And, of course, it leads to an even bigger problem: If that story isn't literal, what else in the Bible isn't?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:47 AM
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All-In [42020]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 10:53 AM
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Well, we could go all day into the conundrum of Job and what God did to him in that story, but it also very clearly echoes the parable sense (a casual conversation between God and Satan?).
I view John the Baptist differently as there is sound evidence he was a real person.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of? ] |
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that brings up another question(s), and I remember asking a similar many many times, and never got a good answer...perhaps because there ain’t one
if one gets sick or suffer its gods will (i've been told), if so then why do believers not accept gods will? if god made you near sighted, and god don't make mistakes, then why the need to go to Lens Crafters to correct your sight...same with whatever ailments one might have. For those people that refuse modern medicine and prefer to "pray the illness away, leave it in gods hands, ...), even if it means their death. I respect their convictions even tho I think its sad
If you’re the "it was the devil" that made whatever happened. Lets backtrack a bit. The Devil is Lucifer (allegedly) whom was an Archangel that was cast out due to a heavenly insurrection and stuff. Lucifer is supposed to at most have the same powers as god? it would make some sense that Lucifer would have powers on par with other Archangels like Gabriel or Michael or less, but gods equal?
lastly I think there is a potentially dangerous for people to think theres reward in the afterlife. So far todays Christians don't seem to be in hurry to get there, as some other religions
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 3:36 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 3:46 PM
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so if god made us, but make some of us with flaws, including very short lives of babies and suffering of all sorts, then what exactly was the point? what is the teaching/lesson? why be sad/mad when these things happen? when you see a tragedy or death of a loved one do you just shrug your shoulders and say "hey it says right here theres gonna be suffering" or if someone kills someone, "well it was his time"
the glorify god on earth has been used for some dastardly things in the past...these days Christians just talk crap and point figures vs claiming lands and killing people in his name
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110%er [8885]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 9:30 AM
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covered with blessings my entire life
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All-TigerNet [11623]
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I'm agnostic....
May 17, 2021, 9:35 AM
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Is there a higher being? Could be. Not willing to discount it.
However, there are so many religions with people who have been willing to kill over "their God" for thousands of years, and even today.
Who I am to decide who is right and who is wrong?
Also, I've found in my life the most outspoken religious people are typically the most morally corrupt people. The try and force their high moral ground on you but are complete sinners when it fits their needs. Total hypocrites.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I'm agnostic....
May 17, 2021, 10:07 AM
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Trainer [38]
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Re: I'm agnostic....
May 17, 2021, 10:26 AM
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I think Jesus’ message was a great one. Love your neighbor as yourself, stand up for the oppressed, etc...
But the notion that you have to just believe in him to obtain salvation while every other human being that doesn’t will burn for eternity is just absurd.
Not to mention most Christians don’t follow Christ’s example anyway. According to the New Testament Jesus drank wine and hung out with the “sinners”. Today’s Christians resemble the Pharisees more than Jesus and his disciples.
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All-In [42020]
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Re: I'm agnostic....
May 17, 2021, 10:31 AM
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But the notion that you have to just believe in him to obtain salvation while every other human being that doesn’t will burn for eternity is just absurd.
A very convenient ultimatum for a massive religious entity trying to maintain control of kings, noblemen, and the general populous throughout a continent for centuries.
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Hall of Famer [21858]
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psychedelics
May 17, 2021, 11:40 AM
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LSD / shrooms allows for great introspective thoughts.
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CU Guru [1224]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 2:40 PM
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I'm in the middle I often question my faith I've grown up in a strong christian-based household, but I often question myself Do I think he's real, or etc. I also think my lack of faith is also caused because I grew up in a christian family and it's sorta forced, so I haven't really looked at my faith for myself. But I will say the afterlife shapes my faith because I have a fear of what happens after-life.
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Hall of Famer [23951]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 5:28 PM
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Try setting any preconceived notions aside, and read the book of John.
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CU Medallion [55652]
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As Gandhi (didn't actually) say, "I like your Christ, I do
May 17, 2021, 3:25 PM
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not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Gandhi didn't really say this, but it is a great quote nonetheless. And just put it on steroids post-Trump and COVID.
To answer your question, a lot of things shaped my faith - my family upbringing, comparing my life to others who did not grow up in a faith tradition, being in church independently as an adult, lots of searching, the evidence (irrefutable) of G-d in my life and in the lives of friends and colleagues, and lots of observing.
That said, I believe 100% in G-d and in Christ. But I am not sure I will ever go back to church on a regular basis. At least not the White American Evangelical church. And I am not sure that one can actually be a "Christian" without being in church.
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Hall of Famer [23951]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 3:57 PM
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I was standing in front of a fire in a field one night, and I felt a draw to God. I felt like my internal eye was open to see who I was. The eye saw the truth. It seemed like the trinity to me. The draw was the Holy Spirit, the truth was Christ, and I was being drawn to God. The biggest change was how I wanted to treat people and how I viewed honesty. It made me want to treat people better, and made me want to make sure I was honest with people. I certainly have not been perfect since that moment, but there was definitely a change.
As far as suffering on Earth - If everyone loved their neighbor as themselves and told the truth, then a lot of human suffering would be eliminated.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 4:10 PM
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thanks for the reply.
I think if its a belief in a book that makes someone be a better person, more truthful and all of that I think its great. I also understand the thought of paradise and being reunited with lost loved ones is comforting...I do get it. I just think that one can be a good person and truthful without religion.
I for one have never taken my kids to church, and whatever stuff they know about religion they've learned on their own or from other family members. I do know that a couple of them have read at least revelations, but they think about it the same as any fictional book they read. One actually said they should make it into a video game. They have all (5 boys) become productive members of society, and started families of their own (my 2nd son) just had twins last week
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Hall of Famer [23951]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 4:27 PM
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Revelation the video game would be pretty awesome!
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Legend [16219]
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I grew up around a very fundamentalist type of Christian
May 17, 2021, 4:51 PM
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faith, and in a very racially mixed congregation. For the most part, these folks were salt of the earth and always expressed a great deal of compassion for others. There was also much volunteering and fellowship, and passing the plate was a low key, expected affair, not the reason for being. Lots of walking the walk over talking the talk, which I appreciate in any facet of life. I am very skeptical of those trumpeting their religion the loudest though, and detest religious hypocrisy as I would a fraudster.
However, I cannot operate on blind faith - not in my DNA. I believe there is a spiritual side to all life and an interconnectedness of all living things which I've gathered through my experiences and those of others, and I believe that for many of us particular religious paths to appreciate that spirituality and "Godliness" is all well and good, especially if those beliefs are put into personal action that are in line with said beliefs. People behaving in contrast to those stated beliefs is largely where I've lost interest in organized religion over the years. I have attended and participate in more Buddhist activities this past decade more than any other faith, the only other faith outside of Christianity that I have personally attended to outside of a wedding or funeral. I still frequent the 'old home' church on occasion. Nothing like congregational singing and fellowship with good souls.
I believe as human beings we are incredibly fortunate and possess something remarkably special in this universe that demands a level of acknowledgement, appreciation, and reverence. How we each choose to implement that - to each his own.
As far as the Creation goes, it's interesting in that in one sense science has driven many away from accepting a Genesis tale, while on the other science might very well be bringing people back to its possibility. If you take the God as alien approach (not of earth - extraterrestrial), the whole Adam and Eve story begins to take real shape as "man" being created in God's image (an alien crossing his DNA with apes) and then taking Adam's rib and DNA sampling an Eve out of it.
As far as an afterlife is concerned, I look to karma. You get what you bring, revealing the heart.
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Legend [16646]
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This may be the first thread
May 17, 2021, 8:50 PM
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I've ever followed that didn't devolve into name calling simply due to an exchange of different opinions. Miracles do happen! Praise...ahem...Faith?!? 
Message was edited by: Salty55®
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: This may be the first thread
May 17, 2021, 9:19 PM
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I tried to head that off with the 1st part of the original post...
yet i'm pleasantly surprised too. The all powerful Flying Spaghetti Monster has smiled upon this thread
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Heisman Winner [111322]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 17, 2021, 9:50 PM
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Once I did the whole Communion thing, for my mother's sake, my dad pulled me aside and said it was all BS, and if I did not want to, I did not have to go to church or Sunday School anymore. I was pretty down with this, because I had more or less come to the same conclusion, but it was nice to hear it from an adult.
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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I have some observations and perhaps some...
May 19, 2021, 11:45 AM
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enlightenment.
I noticed that there is a slight variance between the Bible concept of faith and that of most members here. I studied the Bible concept as part of preparation for an adult SS class about 20 years ago. I may have forgotten some things but the most important remains with me forever.
When the apostles came to Christ and ask Him to increase their faith. Recorded in Luke 17:6...
"6. And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
7. But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8. And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
Oh how many times have we heard a preacher loudly proclaim 'If you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can move trees or even mountains.' Each seeming requited us to grow our faith to at least that size. Maybe it's just me but it seems that all of them left something off because I don't recall ever leaving the place with any more faith than I had when I got there and I was always afraid to ask for more faith because of the warning that tribulation brings faith. I mean, who wants to have their faith tried? Of course by 'tried,' I do not mean to have God hold a trial with some angelic beings sitting on a jury or God passing summary judgment.
'Tried,' means exercised to exertion like body building or perhaps a destructive test. A destructive test, you know, like bending a piece of metal weld to see if it was welded by a proficient welder or testing a fuse to see if it is sufficient to conduct a quantity of electricity. In fact it's just practice.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
So you all have the perfect measure of faith just like those parents or grandparents who you look toward as the standard of 'great faith.' So we know that we all have at least the size of faith as large as a grain of mustard seed. I say perfect because God does the measuring.
I claim we all have a perfect measure so you're probably waiting on me to explain why or how you 'lost your faith.' You didn't, you just fail to apply it according to the obligation Christ described to His apostles. Remember, a servant works the field, returns to the master's house, prepared the master's supper then the servant has his supper.
Faith is our obligation. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Give a man faith the size of a grain of mustard seed and he can believe God sits on His Throne forever.
I do not believe everyone here misconceived what faith is, how it's shaped for measured I think perhaps some of the folks here just used inaccurate terms to describe their faith or lack thereof.
If you will recall, several gentlemen here reported elders in their families who had or have measures of faith which appeared to be greater than their own. I admit, as the years and decades roll by my faith would appear to have increased. That is another deception. I still have the same measure of faith I had the day I asked Christ to come into my heart and be Lord. It's just that after 50 years my faith has been tried over and over again and again and continues to be tried so that I am reminded constantly and consistently that faith is my obligation as the servant and that it is without value unless I put my tiny bit of faith in God.
It sounds so simple until you realize that worry is the exact opposite of faith. Concern is OK but worry displaces faith. Allowing worry to your heart is like pouring water in a tank of gasoline. As the tank overflows it's the gas which leaves the vessel. I have no great faith. My experience with my faith suggest that it is much smaller than the grain of a mustard seed. The only mountain ever removed by my faith is the mountain of worry which seems to grow randomly on its own.
I hope this satisfies the OP's questions.
I missed you guys, I am so glad I was permitted to return. Thanks for all the mentions and concern...and I'm doing well.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I have some observations and perhaps some...
May 19, 2021, 11:59 AM
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Really enjoyed reading your thoughts.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: I have some observations and perhaps some...
May 19, 2021, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to I have some observations and perhaps some... ] |
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It didn't really. I wasn't asking any of that. It was simply what shaped your faith. Your story would been fine. I seriously doubt anyones faith is gonna waiver from a TNET thread and I doubt anyone is gonna run out and get dipped in a river coz of one
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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I wasn't offering criticism.
May 19, 2021, 3:44 PM
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I'll give a Readers Digest version for anyone who I confused by me saying too much.
My faith was shaped over decades. I think most folks here would agree that first real contact with God often results in a youthful zeal which may or may not remain during life's long haul. I experienced that zeal and it lasted a short while. I didn't get 'unsaved,' when it subsided but had a cooling off phase which might be comparable to some period after the honeymoon is over.
During that cooling down period I went through many days when I wondered if I were 'good enough,' to be saved. I'm not one to lay a lot of blame on the devil, Imo, he gets credit for human fragility, much more than he deserves. Frankly, he ain't all that.
Each time I faced such doubt I ended up back in God's Word, the Bible, searching for answers to why I felt that way. Eventually, I resolved that God said it, He wasn't going to change His mind and I concluded no matter how I 'felt,' nothing had changed from the evening I ask Jesus to save me and put my trust in Him.
I liken to a triple marriage. After the three couples said their vows, left the church an old man spoke with each couple. 'Do you feel married, he asked' The first couple was overjoyed and responded 'Oh yes, we are so happy now.'
'Do you feel married,' he asked the second couple. 'Yeah, it kinda feel like something may have changed,' they said without much enthusiasm.
The third couple didn't feel married at all. So, was either of the couples less or more married than the other two?
That is how getting saved works. You can put your faith in God to hold to His Word or you can doubt God's faithfulness and be a miserable wretch who is just as saved as anyone but has no joy due to his lack of faith. I use the term 'you,' in general not as specifically to you,
Tony_elTigre.
God made me, he gave His Son as a sacrifice to save me so I doubly belong to Him. Nothing I will or can do is going to make a liar of Him. In no manner is He giving up something He paid so dearly to possess. That goes for everyone here who decided they 'didn't believe anymore,' and those who 'think their faith is run out.'
God etched Levitical Law in stone. He etched this law on paper written in the Blood of His only Begotten Son.
So much for reader's digest.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: I wasn't offering criticism.
May 19, 2021, 6:14 PM
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again thx for the replies. I really had hoped everyone could post their thoughts without getting to "preachy" nobody needs a sermon up in here. say you're not criticizing then drop this? ok lol
"You can put your faith in God to hold to His Word or you can doubt God's faithfulness and be a miserable wretch who is just as saved as anyone but has no joy due to his lack of faith. I use the term 'you,' in general not as specifically to you,
Tony_elTigre."
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Oculus Spirit [93605]
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I made a terrible mistake.
May 19, 2021, 9:33 PM
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I said 'lack of faith,' in keeping with the common mistake made by Hollywood and the general public. Actually it's not a lack of faith it a misplaced faith which insulates us from the joy of The Lord. God never breaks fellowship with me. I believe I break fellowship with Him when I doubt or misplace my faith. Perhaps it's a distraction from worry or maybe guilt for failing to put my faith in Him.
Putting one's faith in God is the only thing a man can do to please Him. As reported, 'It's God who works in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. That leaves no room for pride and any sense of accomplishment, none.
I disagree with your contention that nobody needs a sermon up in here. I've spent enough hours on P&R to know we are exactly those who need a good sermon every now and then.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 19, 2021, 10:27 PM
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I went to church growing up. Not every Sunday but enough to know it was about fellowship and friendships as a youth. My real belief came when I basically lost every single family member I’ve ever known before the age of 35. I have lost all of my grandparents including the ones who raised me until I was 19. Then I lost my aunts and uncles and lastly my father and then my mother. We had memorable “get togethers”, reunion around the holidays and many many wonderful memories that were shared among each other. Memories you can only know and remember if you’ve ever lost someone you love. These memories are the memories you dig back deep for because you have a fear of forgetting their voice or their face if you don’t hold on to these memories. If you’ve ever lost a son or a daughter than this is even more applicable to you.
What I’m trying to say is that if you know that there is a slight possibility even if only a .0001 % chance that you could once again stand before and embrace your parents, a sibling, a spouse or heaven forbid a son or daughter that has left you on this earth without them that you could find them in another realm or time/ space, and all you had to do is believe that The lord Jesus Christ is our savior and died on the cross freely, then what do you have to lose? What do you have to gain...everything!
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Trainer [38]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 20, 2021, 7:01 AM
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Sorry for your loss and all you’ve gone through. I truly am.
But here’s the reality...every human or animal that has ever lived has gone through or will go through the loss of loved ones. It’s a tough pill to swallow but there is no evidence that our life is any different from the cow that gets slaughtered or the fly you swat at the dinner table and if it was, how is that fair to all the non human species that don’t get a glorious afterlife? Did god just create them for our entertainment and to serve us?
What kind of sick person would make a world like that where all these living things just live a life of suffering and death like so many of them do?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of?
May 21, 2021, 3:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: What shaped your faith ... or lack of? ] |
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Touch the Rock hold on to that faith. There is a God , there is a heaven and as you said you can see them again through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Don’t let others discourage you or cause you to question your faith. Thanks for sharing your heart felt words.
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