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Hall of Famer [22155]
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ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:19 PM
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1. Feb 24, Mike Alford - FSU AD - makes a very public statement saying that it was "impossible" for FSU to continue to be competitive with the huge difference in revenue between the ACC and the SEC/B1G.
2. One or maybe 2 days later, Neff, made a public statement essentially agreeing with Alford.
No doubt in my mind these statements were jointly planned by the ADs, the presidents and the Boards of Regents at both schools.
3. Within a month rumors were flying that UNC and Miami were also very interested in doing something to get out of the conference.
4. The first day of the Spring meeting, a rumor (from "reliable sources") naming seven schools that are exploring abolishing the GOR.
I'm no insider. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express. But, I don't think it is too hard to reasonably conclude that those 7 schools are not just shooting in the dark and hoping they hit something. I don't know if anything will happen this week, but I gotta believe it will happen in the next 2-3 months.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:28 PM
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Honestly, yeah, they are just shooting in the dark. According the Brett McMurphy report, the schools are meeting with lawyers to see if they can get out of the GOR. Well by definition, that means they don't know if it's possible. That means all the previous actions were not done with the knowledge that leaving is even an option, which is just a shot in the dark.
On top of that, nobody has even determined whether these teams will have anywhere to go if they can leave.
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Orange Blooded [3818]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:34 PM
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To your first point, the GOR question will be settled in court. Could go either way
On a having a place to go — of course these schools have has private conversations with other leagues about what would be the appetite if the GOR was broken. No guarantees but I doubt they are shooting in the dark on that one.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:38 PM
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You can't move until the GOR is decided. That's the problem, or at least one of them.
I'm pretty confident they are shooting in the dark. I don't see any evidence they really have a place to go, or that leaving is even possible.
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:51 PM
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They wouldn’t be trying to dissolve the GOR if they didn’t have a place to go.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 7:06 PM
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Yeah they would, if again, it's a shot in the dark.
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All-American [584]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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I don’t think they’re shouting in the dark at all. They’re currently at 7 teams, all they need is one more to dissolve the conference all together, and if that happens, they’ll be moving sooner than later. Notre Dame has full voting rights in the conference, so get them on board, or Pitt, or Louisville, and this thing is over by the end of the summer. The fighting the GOR is the backup plan, but you can be all but assured that they’re searching for that 8th team.
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Orange Blooded [4414]
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Correct! That 8th team(s) is probably
May 15, 2023, 7:05 PM
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Holding out for some concessions and to also make sure they have a landing spot. No doubt the 7 teams are trying to find that 8th team and there’s probably three or four teams that are listening…
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CU Guru [1032]
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Legend [16212]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 9:33 AM
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They have enough vote to break a 7-7 tie.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 9:38 AM
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No, they don't.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 7:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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Explain to me why the 8th team will vote to break up the conference without getting into a better conference than they are in right now.
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Orange Blooded [4414]
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: No way we would be trying to dissolve the GOR’s if we
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May 15, 2023, 7:07 PM
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I don't agree they have a place to go. I think they are just rolling the dice and hoping by getting out of the GOR, it will attract interest from other leagues.
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: No way we would be trying to dissolve the GOR’s if we
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May 15, 2023, 7:30 PM
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Lol….you’re wrong. Both the Big10 and SEC will take members from the ACC, and the “7” knows this.
Big 10 and SEC is going to become just like AFC and NFC. Only difference will be how the playoffs are determined.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: No way we would be trying to dissolve the GOR’s if we
May 16, 2023, 4:13 PM
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The SEC hasn't even been able to get more money for adding Oklahoma and Texas yet. Do they really want to have more mouths to feed?
The only way SEC adds us is if ESPN gives them more money. And nobody in Bristol, CT is saying "let's pay Clemson more money for the games we already own until 2035."
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Orange Blooded [3818]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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What evidence would you like to see? A press release from the B1G saying “yes, we’ve agreed to take these ACC schools should they break the GOR?” That’s not happening. Both parties are incentivized to not leak any details on conversations.
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Legend [17854]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 7:29 PM
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Don't fret over it. Some folks don't know how to read the signs until they are already driving over the cliff.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 7:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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I would like to see some reports saying either conference is interested in expanding further, similar to the reports the 7 ACC schools are attempting to GWT out of the GOR.
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Orange Blooded [3948]
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All-TigerNet [10666]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 15, 2023, 8:27 PM
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Edit that to 2027 and I'll bank on it
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All-TigerNet [10395]
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All-TigerNet [10786]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 6:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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If 8 ACC schools decide to leave the Conference, wouldn't that dissolve the ACC and make GOR null and void - no conference, no contract?
When I was born, Clemson was already in the ACC and that's all I have ever known for the Tigers. What ever is best for the school is fine by me. Disney will never renogotiate the contract so if it is viable, dissolve and move on.
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All-American [584]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 15, 2023, 6:56 PM
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You are correct, and at this point, it’s who wants to join the winning side first. ND, Pitt, Louisville, or Duke.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 4:14 PM
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And ESPN sues the conference members who voted to dissolve, for the sole purpose of getting out of the TV deal, for breach of contract.
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Orange Blooded [4414]
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I hope you’re right!
May 15, 2023, 6:29 PM
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I still think that’s a little wishful thinking that it would happen this summer but I’m hoping you’re right!
I personally think that we’re waiting to see what happens with the PAC 12 (Can they stay together and continue things for another couple of years or does the PAC 12 crumble and teams join the Big 12 (Four corner schools) and Oregon, Washington and Cal/Stanford join the Big 10) which would make the SEC want to expand).
I do believe we’re (Clemson, F St, UNC, & Miami) are talking to both conferences and trying to see what’s “best” for us. I think Clemson, F St are a package deal. I don’t see us splitting up. I think we probably prefer the SEC but I could see a scenario where the Big 10 wants in the south so bad they throw everything for us and Miami and another school.
It’s all so exciting! Let’s see what happens!
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Hall of Famer [22155]
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I do too, but I tend...
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May 15, 2023, 8:46 PM
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.... to be on the optimistic side. (I was the guy who said last summer that FSU and Clemson would announce they were leaving the ACC by the end of March this year.)
But, the fact that 7 schools are named in this report is good news to me. I am hopeful that means that there have been discussions between some of those schools and the Big 12. I don't see how you can possibly get to 8 schools voting to dissolve the conference withot the Big 12 being involved.
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CU Guru [1669]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 15, 2023, 6:47 PM
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It’s sad. Swafford and his commission cronies likely killed the ACC (at least as we know it).
I wish there was way the conference could petition for renegotiation in an attempt to close the gap (and no 20+ year contracts).
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 15, 2023, 7:06 PM
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There is.
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Walk-On [121]
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Orange Blooded [4414]
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Thx for posting!***
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May 15, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: Thx for posting!***
May 15, 2023, 8:27 PM
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Your welcome!
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110%er [5082]
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What’s to keep 8,9,10 schools from forming a new conference
May 15, 2023, 7:33 PM
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Like out of nowhere and bringing in 10 more and negotiating and stupid monster deal?
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Orange Blooded [3818]
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Re: What’s to keep 8,9,10 schools from forming a new conference
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May 15, 2023, 7:46 PM
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I think ESPN would have a good legal case if 10 ACC members shed 5 other members and then reformed as a “new” conference asking for a new TV contract.
ESPN owns something of value now - an under-market TV contract for 14 (or 15) schools for 13 more years. They won’t just let that go without a fight.
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110%er [5082]
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What if we get some sort of woke tranny as commissioner.
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May 15, 2023, 7:57 PM
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Kinda figure head. Let em sue.
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CU Guru [1202]
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Feel like GA Tech is #8
May 15, 2023, 7:39 PM
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Well positioned either way.
- Proximal to SEC; regional rivalries to rekindle
- Lots of FB history back during the Glory Years of the B1G.
- Great academics (AAU) while still carrying the burden of being a public school in a state that doesn’t have strong primary schools
I feel like they are more likely to land on their feet than NC State or VA Tech. Replacing their coaching staffs in both primary sports show they might be close to caring more.
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Orange Blooded [4414]
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I was surprised not to see GTech!
May 15, 2023, 8:11 PM
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I would think they would be very attractive with Miami for the Big 10.
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Orange Blooded [2377]
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Re: Feel like GA Tech is #8
May 16, 2023, 8:13 AM
[ in reply to Feel like GA Tech is #8 ] |
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Don't forget that win over Cumberland College!
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Hopefully things are happening behind the scenes...
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May 15, 2023, 7:47 PM
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because, even if enough schools elect to defect. the result of which effectively abolishes the GOR and the corresponding collapse of the ACC, it is all a moot point unless they all have a new conference to call home.
I don't see the conferences inviting all of these new members unless it results in an even larger revenue stream. The leagues, and the current members, aren't likely to support additions if the total revenue remains the same but has to be divided among more schools.
Of course, the television networks will all have a major say in all of this.
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110%er [8515]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 8:01 PM
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If you think those 7 schools are going to give up $35-40 million and have no where to go, I have ocean front front property in Kansas for sale. This has been a great sports year for Clemson and I just don't see us going anywhere.
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Legend [19197]
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So you want the money gap to do us in
May 15, 2023, 8:02 PM
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to USuC and other local rivals? NO THANKS!
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: So you want the money gap to do us in
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May 16, 2023, 7:27 AM
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It's not a matter of wanting Clemson to be that far behind in revenue. It's a matter of thinking logically. For one example, why would NC State say,"Ok, we are going to vote to dissolve the ACC, so that Clemson and Florida St. can go to the SEC, make $50-60 million more than us, while we go to the creepy Big 12 and play Texas Tech and Cincinnati?"
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 10:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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The deal has already been made. Everyone knows Clemson and FSU are going to the SEC. It was always a 4 way deal with Texas and Oklahoma. I was no accident that Clemson added all the women's sports a few years ago. That was to bring them in line with current SEC offerings for women. Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and FSU were all going to announce to be in the SEC in 2025 but A and M blew it up and Texas and Oklahoma had to announce prematurely. Clemson will be in the SEC for the 2025 season and so will FSU. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but all that is left to do is sign the papers.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 7:21 AM
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That's completely made up.
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 7:59 AM
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Noah was a conspiracy theorist too, and then it started raining.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 8:38 AM
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Yeah, that has no bearing on the actual discussion, except to illustrate that yiu have zero factual evidence to support your assertions.
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110%er [6857]
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Serious question: Do you dream up stupid things to post OR
May 16, 2023, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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Is it all pure accident? Either way, you rival JK, Mountaineers, and Coblox in your utter lack of intelligent thought.
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Legend [16795]
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110%er [5381]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 15, 2023, 8:08 PM
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Doesn’t, there need to be eight schools to leave to break the GOR?
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 15, 2023, 9:45 PM
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I heard the same thing but don't know if that is true. Sounds plausible.
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110%er [9023]
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Go indépendant, then join the Metro conference!***
May 15, 2023, 9:39 PM
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Hall of Famer [22155]
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You must be talking about FSU, right?
May 16, 2023, 7:46 AM
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We were an independent in football and in the Metro Conference when we joined the ACC. 👍
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CU Guru [1186]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 15, 2023, 9:44 PM
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I am no insider so take this with a grain of salt. I was watching something on this situation a couple weeks ago and it was said that if 8 schools leave at the same time the GOR has no effect and is essentially abolished. At the time they were saying FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC were locks for wanting to leave but they needed 4 other schools to agree in order to do away with the GOR. Anyone else hear the same thing, or know if that is really the situation? It sounds plausible but obviously I have no inside info.
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 16, 2023, 8:00 AM
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It seems to me the only schools that have any possibility of being admitted to the SEC are Clemson and FSU as long as doing so doesn’t dilute the future revenue payouts to current schools. UVA, UNC and possibly Ga Tech could be Big 10 candidates as they represent new geography and meet academic standards. Miami, NC State or Va Tech bring nothing to either of those leagues and would definitely not enhance revenue streams. The remaining ACC schools have zero chance of getting into these two conferences so their only incentives would be huge financial payouts from those leaving the conference. One way you might see schools join to dissolve is if they have a new home to go to along with the cash payout. For example, if Clemson and FSU go to the SEC and VA/UNC go to the Big q0, the following realignment might be an acceptable option for all: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Va Tech, NC State, Ga Tech, Duke, Wake, Louisville and Miami joint the Big 12. They form a Big 12 East with West Va, Cincinnati and UCF. Big 12 West then adds two or all of the four corners schools. Not a bad football conference and probably the #1 basketball conference. If the Big 12 doesn’t want to add that many schools, another option is for those schools to remain in the new ACC and possible add Big 12 schools like West Va, UCF and Cincinnati. The Big 12 replaces the 3 eastern schools with Az, Az State, Utah and Colorado. So a better approach for Clemson and FSU would be to determine what $$$ package they would need to offer to get others on board to dissolve the league plus assist in brokering a deal with the Big 12 that helps the schools being left behind find a home. Some might say its not Clemsons concern with what happens with the remaining schools but I don’t believe most of those programs are naive enough to think they will be able to follow Clemson into the SEC if the ACC dissolves. As for Notre Dame, they have to hope the Big 10 offers them or they stay independent and see if the Big East will take all of their non football sports.( not that any of us care what happens with ND).
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
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May 16, 2023, 8:47 AM
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Why would Syracuse, Georgia Tech, etc. want to agree to that? Whatever payoff Clemson and Florida St. arrange would only be temporary. In three or four years those other schools would be back to square one in terms of revenue.
On top of that, at least as the ACC is now, it's solidly the #3 conference prestige wise. Clemson and Florida St are blue blood level programs, which the new Big 12 and Pac 12 won't be even close to having. If you are Syracuse or Georgia Tech, being in the ACC with Clemson and Florida St. is better than being in the Big East 2.0.
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 9:40 AM
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In todays world you are correct but if you think the end game is two super conferences why not. What I can’t see any of the schools doing is being willing to given up their share of revenue so other schools like Clemson and FSU receive more. Programs like Syracuse, Pitt, BC, Ga Tech are never going to invest in their football program like FSU or Clemson so they have no disillusions of being regular playoff participants. If they get a financial sum equal to 3 or so years of current revenue AND become part of a conference with similar revenues to what they get today, that really is a win for them. Their football programs can get to bowl games and the basketball programs will still compete at the highest level. If the alternative is to be left without a seat at the table when the Big 10 and SEC are done, assisting Clemson and FSU to dissolve the conferences GOR while getting a financial windfall plus ongoing conference revenue from Big 12 or a New ACC seems like a optimal solution for all.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 10:07 AM
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It's not an optimal solution for all. Teams like Syracuse and Georgia Tech will be clearly worse off if Clemson and Florida St join the SEC, and these other schools are left in a diminished Big 12 or ACC. They would not be better positioned for bowl games, or other sports, or anything else.
In fact, if you are claiming that the new model will be two mega conferences, the best gourmet of action would be to hold out, and try to be included in that package.
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
1
May 16, 2023, 12:40 PM
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I think those schools would be perfectly fine without Clemson and FSU in an expanded Big 12. They are not looking to keep up with Alabama, Ohio State and Michigan because they know they can’t make those investments. That’s especially true for private regional schools like Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse and BC. If they can retain or moderately increase their current revenue distribution in the new big 12 and get a windfall from Clemson, FSU, UVA and UNC, why would they not accept that? These school AD’s and most of their fans know they are not going to compete for national championships in football like Clemson and FSU. My guess is a number of former Big East teams would be glad to begin playing regional rivals again against schools they have a history with. You might be right but this scenario is seems better for the lower tier ACC programs.
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CU Guru [1032]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 12:55 PM
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These schools would not accept that because of a variety of reasons.
The "windfall" you mentioned would only last for a couple of years. Then they would be back to getting about what they get now.
These schools would have to pay more in travel costs. For example, years ago when the ACC considered realigning the divisions, Virginia Tech opposed it, with their AD saying that their travel budget had been cut in half since since leaving the Big East.
These schools would see further drop off in ticket sales, when the biggest names on your schedule are BYU and Cincinnati.
Travel costs will be increased for non revenue sports.
These schools ARE trying to compete with Rutgers, Maryland, Kentucky, Mississippi St, etc., and they will be at even more of a disadvantage to those schools in a diminished Big 12 or ACC.
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Letterman [278]
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Joined: 6/17/16
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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There seems to be little consensus on what will happen. This should make everyone happy. Notre Dame, NC, FSU, and Clemson join the B1G. I dont care about the other teams in the soon to be former ACC.
Blue Bloods - or at least very good football teams
Ohio State
PSU
Clemson
FSU
Michigan
USC
Pretty Good Teams
Wisconsin
MSU
Iowa
Nebraska - they on the way back
Could be good
Maryland
UCLA
Illinois
Purdue
Minnesota
Dead weight
NW
Indiana
Rutgers
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Letterman [278]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 319
Joined: 6/17/16
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline. ] |
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There seems to be little consensus on what will happen. This should make everyone happy. Notre Dame, NC, FSU, and Clemson join the B1G. I dont care about the other teams in the soon to be former ACC.
Blue Bloods - or at least very good football teams
Ohio State
PSU
Clemson
FSU
Michigan
USC
Pretty Good Teams
Wisconsin
MSU
Iowa
Nebraska - they on the way back
Could be good
Maryland
UCLA
Illinois
Purdue
Minnesota
Dead weight
NW
Indiana
Rutgers
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Letterman [278]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Joined: 6/17/16
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 11:31 AM
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Sorry that it somehow posted twice. I also forgot ND and NC
Add ND to blue bloods
Add NC to good as they definitely seem to be on the rise
That would be one hell of a conference. I understand gripes with distance, late fall cold games, and lack of rivalries
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Commissioner [933]
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Re: ACC expansion/dissolution timeline.
May 16, 2023, 8:12 AM
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I think it's Clemson, F$U and Miami working this together. Also, maybe the Tarholes. Heck, Rad hired Neff if my memory is right. They're probably joined at the hip. Likely ending up in the SEC. Then the SEC controls the entire Southern US all the way to Texas and Oklahoma. That avoids the B10 from coming into the south in a meaningful way. The hotbed for college football. The SEC would not want a Clemson/ Ohio State, Michigan/ F$U or Miami/ Penn State match up competing with them.
Thanks to Dabo, Clemson is a National Brand now.
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Legend [16212]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12765
Joined: 11/14/09
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The top football programs in the ACC have each other as a
May 16, 2023, 9:50 AM
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landing spot, which I would gather they are using as leverage in these discussions. And why not? Do any of these programs really want to travel all over the country to play all of their other sports? Do their fans want to do the same, or care much about programs that bring no sizzle or rivalry component to all these contests?
Clemson
FSU
Miami
Va Tech
UNC
NC State
Louisville
Pitt
Right there is a solid 8-team football and all sports league. Add West Va into the mix and you have a very media friendly and attractive football offering week in and week out - of significantly more value than today's watered down ACC offering, per program at least, and geographically aligned. Keep Notre Dame in for all sports plus maybe 4 games per year (2 home / 2 away) for scheduling and the revenue boost.
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Oculus Spirit [79868]
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Stay by your computers.***
1
May 16, 2023, 1:08 PM
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110%er [5210]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4628
Joined: 10/28/02
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Where there is smoke, there is fire. Something is afoot!***
May 16, 2023, 4:22 PM
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