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110%er [9106]
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Conversation b/t Gov't & Citizen Regarding Mandates
Sep 10, 2021, 9:10 AM
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G: You must get the vaccine because it's best for your health.
C: Why can't I determine what's best for my health?
G: Because you're wrong. We're following the science.
C: Ha! You know better about my health than me? I'm following the science that I see, too.
G: We will all pay the consequences for your decision not to vax
C: If the vax is that reliable, and you've gotten it, why are you worried about me? You should be fine.
G: But it can drive up the cost of health care, all you non-vax people in the hospitals
C: I have my own insurance. But even then, does it drive up the cost of healthcare more than those of us citizens picking up the cost of healthcare for the non-insured and illegals?
C: Are you telling me that it's ok to CHOOSE not to have health insurance, even though it's a fact that the cost of healthcare for the uninsured drives up the cost for those who are uninsured?
G: That's irrelevant. You need to get the vaccine for the good of yourself and everyone. If you choose not to - which is your right - we will make it so that you can't work or go out w/o the vax.
C: Then that's not really leaving me a choice. My body, my choice, right?
G: That's only with abortion. That doesn't affect others.
C: Wait... abortion doesn't affect others??
G: Nevermind, you need to get the vaccine and if you don't, we'll find ways to require you to.
C: Even though that's unconstitutional?
G: Doesn't matter. It's for the good of everyone.
C: It's for the good of everyone? If the vaccine is as reliable as you say it is, and you've gotten it, what are you worried about? I'll take responsibility for myself. I don't need you trying to take responsibility for me.
G: It's the government's responsibility to take care of its citizens.
C: Oh, sure, like we've done in Afghanistan?
G: That's different. They chose not to register with the State Department, and they chose to Afghanistan.
C: Kind of like I'm choosing to not get the vaccine? But you're not forcing them to leave the country and making a way for them to do so.
And on, and on, and on, and on..... And by the way, I'm NOT anti-vax. I haven't gotten it yet, but am seriously considering it. I respect those who have gotten it, and I respect those who have chosen not to (for the most part - there are some crazy conspiracies out there, though!) But I do NOT need nor want the government mandating what I do or do not do with my healthcare.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Conversation b/t Gov't & Citizen Regarding Mandates
Sep 10, 2021, 9:46 AM
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Your response is exactly what I am afraid of. The mandate is probably making it less likely for you to choose to take it. I doubt the Supreme Court will uphold the part of the mandate where OSHA can essentially force private companies with > 100 employees to take the vaccine or be tested often. We'll see.
I would ask that you not only consider taking the vaccine, but actually move on this. Our hospitals are in a bad way. Don't be part of the problem. You owe it to yourself. That being said, I agree that I don't think you should be forced to take this by the Feds.
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110%er [9106]
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Re: Conversation b/t Gov't & Citizen Regarding Mandates
Sep 10, 2021, 9:51 AM
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I will probably end up getting a vaccination. I have some unique medical concerns that are preventing me from getting it - nothing to do with politics or conspiracies or anything. My unique medical situation is what's driving my thought processes.
But yeah, I do NOT like being strongarmed by POLITICIANS into making a MEDICAL decision. My doctor has every right and all the authority to do that. Crazy Uncle Joe - not so much.
Lest other republicans/conservatives forget, Trump is also encouraging the vaccine. But you can be sure that, were he still in office, he would not be trying to manipulate and coerce people into doing it.
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All-In [44045]
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My concern is the general lack of respect for others today.
Sep 10, 2021, 10:01 AM
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The pandemic has really illuminated that.
We don't respect the opinions and recommendations of experts like we used to.
We think we know more because we read a few articles online or liked a few social media posts.
We choose our experts based on whether or not they say what we want to hear.
This is not just true in medicine, but in sports, politics, entertainment - every facet of life.
And it extends beyond our failure to respect the opinions of experts. We don't respect anyone else today. If we did, we would think less about ourselves and more about others. We would be more selfless and less selfish.
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110%er [9106]
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Re: My concern is the general lack of respect for others today.
Sep 10, 2021, 10:06 AM
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Everything has been politicized - from sports to healthcare.
It's not a question anymore of THAT you got your information. It's a question of WHERE you got your information. The biggest problem with all this COVID mess is the involvement of governments in healthcare and medicine. Why should I trust the CDC, who recently decided to make a statement about using gender-neutral pronouns?? They're not politicized or have an agenda apart from medicine??
I'll trust my doctor. I trust my friends and family who are in medicine or related fields. But do I trust Biden or Desantis or McMasters or whomever is in elected office regarding this?? Heck no. No way.
I should post a different thread about a conversation between a patient and his doctor regarding the vaccine. It'd be a heckuva lot shorter and a lot more sensible!
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All-In [44045]
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I absolutely agree.
Sep 10, 2021, 10:19 AM
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The conversation about vaccines should occur between a patient and their doctor.
Which leads to my next question: how many people out there don't have a doctor?
I bet it's a lot.
Most everyone has access to a doctor if they really need one, but do they go? How many people actually get a yearly physical with blood work? How many have a doctor they know and trust, who they can ask about vaccination?
I'd be curious to know how many people who haven't gotten the vaccine yet have an actual primary care doctor - namely, one that they respect and trust.
The argument for messaging from the government, CDC, etc. is that they might reach people who don't have a doctor and who might not have a reliable source of information in front of them. However, I agree with you that government and their alphabet soup agencies aren't necessarily reliable sources of information either.
Lastly, this pandemic has shown that the medical community has done a poor job over the years of being available to listen and have real conversations with patients about their health. There are obviously some amazing doctors out there, but the current system which is heavily influenced by insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid has created doctors who are more like robots than people. They are rushed, and can't often give patients the time they need. This has eroded the public's trust in doctors. This is obviously an oversimplification on some levels, but I believe it's a core problem that the pandemic has amplified.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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We are generally averse to bad news.
Sep 10, 2021, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to My concern is the general lack of respect for others today. ] |
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We vote for those who tell us what we like to hear. We watch the cable news network that tells us what we like to hear. We listen to the radio guy/gal who tells us what we want to hear. We buy what we want, and don't want to hear about debt. We follow the science we want to hear, we go to the doctor who ignores our smoking, drinking, and weight. We go to the dentist who never lectures us about flossing or whatever. We prefer whatever is easy, and requires the least sacrifice, accountability, or responsibility. I see this in dems and republicans. We vote for what is easiest and sounds the best for US in a voting booth. And to NO ONE is that less spending.
And you have people dying from treatable conditions in hospitals where they can not recieve what was once easy and standard care, because the hospital has more patients than in the history of the hospital. And then you watch a politician say it's a personal choice, and it doesn't impact others, because the politician knows you will vote for what you want to hear, and knows the calculus of people who have relatives die will be less than those who will vote for whatever is easiest who are not impacted.
It's all very sad.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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It's like the kid who never listens and refuses to do
Sep 10, 2021, 10:58 AM
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something just because they're told to do it. And then they stick that fork in the electric outlet anyway.
Well, those kids grow up too.
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Lot o points [163012]
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A wise man once said
Sep 10, 2021, 1:29 PM
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you cannot fix stupid.
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