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All-TigerNet [14751]
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A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 8:52 AM
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There are a few models we can adopt, understanding we won’t get duke or unc talent, but I’m not really sure “what we are”.
1. We could recruit measurables and go for great height across the board and coach up the skills, this is sort of the FSU and to a degree UCF model.
2. We could go for a strict defensive and fundamentals philosophy, the UVA model and sometimes Ivy schools make a run with this model.
3. We could recruit shooters and good players and put little to no emphasis on measurables, a lot of smaller schools who makes runs have players like this. Maybe it’s a 5-10 PG or a 6-8 center, they are overlooked by traditional powers but are great players, the renfrows of basketball if you will.
Whether you agree or disagree with those identities or define them slightly differently, the main point is “what are we?” This is a really profound question that usually comes up when a program is floundering in any sport. I’m really not sure what we are, what is our strategy? I’m fine with any of them, any can work, but I’m really not sure what we are. After 9 or 10 years, that isn’t acceptable. The results argument is somewhat irrelevant given this fact.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 9:12 AM
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What we were lacking this year was a reliable point-producer beyond Reed. We did not have a DeVoe/Grantham that could take up the slack.
First, we are a defensive/possession team... just not a great one *this* year. It equates to more of a management, high IQ play (ironic at times) that tries to maximize the sum of the parts. So we are already a Renfrow team... but we are a Renfrow team witout other 5 star talent that does most of the lifting. (If hunter played basketball, all of his buckets will count as 6 with an automatic +1) The result is that we beat miss-managed teams, bad teams, and even a few more talented team but get run out when we hit a team with more talent and is not missmanaged.
If we go with physical talent, you will always run the risk of losing to a well manage "sum" team. Also, you will be obliterated when running up against a talent team with skill. Worse, we will struggle with attracting consistent talent.
If you go with a shooter team, expect up/down. Actually the shocker team would be the example there. They were a decent but inconsistent shooting team.
Clemson basketball is not floundering. It is solid, just not great. See Wake for a floundering team. We were 1-2 wins from a very good year vs being a team 5 wins from being .500 and losing to the Big South.
Here is the next issue. We were COLD yesterday. Missing obvious layups. That type of game happens. NC State could not even buy us a basket. Officiating was outright baffling. However, when you are only shooting 28% and have a chance to win late, that was surprising good coaching to even keep us close.
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Orange Blooded [3371]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 9:35 AM
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The problem with Clemson is every game they have 5-10 minutes that they will not score, They have too many games that they shoot very low % of made baskets and this has been the identity of Clemson men's basketball under CBB.
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CU Medallion [67704]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 9:40 AM
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its one thing to not score. it is another to not hit the rim or have possessions where you dont even get a shot or take one that is bad with no rebounders in position. That seems to occur with these periods. And the amount of missed layups and tips we have is also disappointing.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity ] |
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Exactly, we do not have a true point producer beyond Reed this year.
You expect to have times where a kid and to a lesser extent a team will go cold at times. The difference between last year and this was that with 3 point producers, normally the cold would not hit everyone. With Reed and a lot of support players, our support could not carry the load.
The difference between this year and last was 5%. Yup. 37% from 3 last year, 32% this year. That makes a difference in those close games.
Now here is the other side, we shot 28% and like 11% from 3 yesterday and we were within 3 points late in the game. That should not happen. When you shoot 28% you should lose by 25 points. That is Brad's identity... he keeps us close when we are ice cold. We still might not win but at least we are giving ti a fighting chance. If one of ET or Traps layups fell, we would have likely won that game.
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Orange Blooded [3137]
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Re: You nailed the OP’s question..
Mar 25, 2019, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity ] |
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A lot of the things you mentioned are spot on.. but you nailed it with the close losses we should’ve won. We ARE that “mismanaged team” that other organized teams can beat for that reason alone. Sometimes in games our team looked lost.. whether it be during a scoring drought or just a string of series where we look inept on the court period..
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110%er [6825]
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Re: You nailed the OP’s question..
Mar 25, 2019, 10:22 AM
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We are not mismanaged.
How many teams with inferior talent did we lose to? When did the kids quit on the coach?
All but two of the close games were on the road. Only UNC and Nebraska were at home. ALL of the other games were on the road.
Did you honestly thing that this team had a run for the Sweet Sixteen in them? Did you assume that because they were 'seniors' that they would be better? This was a deeply flawed roster from the get-go for point producers. We needed a kid to have a Grantham-like development. Some kids developed but not enough. This was a very, very well managed team because it should NOT have been a 20 win/.500 ACC team. We did not have anyone beyond Reed with shoulder that could carry a team and thus when his production dipped, it looked lost because you did not have someone to carry the points. Thus droughts.
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Legend [16646]
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If anyone chose to watch some of the many
Mar 25, 2019, 10:29 AM
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Games this past four days, virtually every team had a 4-5, or more, minute scoring drought. Even Duke...imagine that! It's not as though Clemson owns a patent on it, but when your team is going through one, it seems that way.
FutureDoc, excellent analysis, Sir. Well done...
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All-In [27366]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity ] |
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Name a team playing winning basketball without a quality point guard
The Tigers played the two NIT games with the pg on the bench!
Obviously he was at half speed all season and we still have won 20 games.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 9:34 AM
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We were a weird team. We had no shooters, yet we weren't solid inside either. Thomas seemed to have no help inside. Odd team.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 10:14 AM
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That sounds like the teams we used to have under OP!
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110%er [7191]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 9:46 AM
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A big part of the problem is we don't have a Head Coach who has a son who is better than he was. Did you see Aubrey Dawkins yesterday?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 9:55 AM
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Aubrey was great yesterday and is a stud, butaybe not as good as his dad. Johnny was the college player of the year and the 10th pick in the NBA draft. He was also first team all ACC a couple of.times. Then he played 9 seasons in the NBA. Aubrey has a ways to go. Anyway, Aubrey is a stud. Imagine if we had a guy like him on our team this past year? We would have won 6 more games probably.
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All-In [29823]
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From my memory we've been everything in the past
Mar 25, 2019, 9:57 AM
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Under Ellis, we had some good talent like Grant, Campbell, Davis....under Barnes we were tough, physical, under the basket bruisers, and under OP we were press and fast break. Had some good seasons with each identity, but also some bad ones
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All-In [27366]
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Clemson should have been better this year
Mar 25, 2019, 11:13 AM
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Reed and Mitchell are all that you need to provide points at crunch time. Thomas is a good, solid big man.
You interpret this any way that you wish!
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MVP [533]
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 10:03 AM
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There are a few models we can adopt, understanding we won’t get duke or unc talent, but I’m not really sure “what we are”.
1. We could recruit measurables and go for great height across the board and coach up the skills, this is sort of the FSU and to a degree UCF model.
2. We could go for a strict defensive and fundamentals philosophy, the UVA model and sometimes Ivy schools make a run with this model.
3. We could recruit shooters and good players and put little to no emphasis on measurables, a lot of smaller schools who makes runs have players like this. Maybe it’s a 5-10 PG or a 6-8 center, they are overlooked by traditional powers but are great players, the renfrows of basketball if you will.
Whether you agree or disagree with those identities or define them slightly differently, the main point is “what are we?” This is a really profound question that usually comes up when a program is floundering in any sport. I’m really not sure what we are, what is our strategy? I’m fine with any of them, any can work, but I’m really not sure what we are. After 9 or 10 years, that isn’t acceptable. The results argument is somewhat irrelevant given this fact.
Spot on & we have little or no recruiting footprint; well you could argue some identity, in that we are a transfer portal for mid-majors; which to me is a short cut for a procrastinator or someone who lacks the desire to beat the bushes & do the recruiting road work necessary at Clemson-I guess 3-4 months scouring gyms & knocking on doors is a little much to ask for a couple mill US
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MVP [533]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: A big part of the problem is we are lacking identity
Mar 25, 2019, 10:03 AM
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There are a few models we can adopt, understanding we won’t get duke or unc talent, but I’m not really sure “what we are”.
1. We could recruit measurables and go for great height across the board and coach up the skills, this is sort of the FSU and to a degree UCF model.
2. We could go for a strict defensive and fundamentals philosophy, the UVA model and sometimes Ivy schools make a run with this model.
3. We could recruit shooters and good players and put little to no emphasis on measurables, a lot of smaller schools who makes runs have players like this. Maybe it’s a 5-10 PG or a 6-8 center, they are overlooked by traditional powers but are great players, the renfrows of basketball if you will.
Whether you agree or disagree with those identities or define them slightly differently, the main point is “what are we?” This is a really profound question that usually comes up when a program is floundering in any sport. I’m really not sure what we are, what is our strategy? I’m fine with any of them, any can work, but I’m really not sure what we are. After 9 or 10 years, that isn’t acceptable. The results argument is somewhat irrelevant given this fact.
Spot on & we have little or no recruiting footprint; well you could argue some identity, in that we are a transfer portal for mid-majors; which to me is a short cut for a procrastinator or someone who lacks the desire to beat the bushes & do the recruiting road work necessary at Clemson-I guess 3-4 months scouring gyms & knocking on doors is a little much to ask for a couple mill US
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110%er [5236]
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We have an identity , it is called perennial mediocrity ..
Mar 25, 2019, 11:30 AM
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but we do have an identity..
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