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A bad year?
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Replies: 59  

A bad year?

emoji_events [10]
Nov 18, 2021, 1:47 PM

Plenty of teams would love to be 7-3 at this point in the season. Even 7-4, if this is the worst it gets I'll deal with it. I remember plenty of seasons we would love to be in this position. This isn't what we have been accustomed to recently, but this year has sucked because of injury and inexperience. Look at the rosters of other teams, they are loaded with 5 & 6 year players. This season is an outlier of what we have become use to. I remain hopeful that the Tigers will be back in rare air next year. But for now, GO TIGERS ### the deeks.

Mu pick: TIGERS 23- Deeks 20

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It's a great luxury to be able to call this a "bad" year

emoji_events [8]
Nov 18, 2021, 2:03 PM

but if we do not win Saturday, I am afraid that is what I will have to consider it. While I have seen us go through much worse seasons, and I realize the ridiculously high standards we have been conditioned to embrace, we have had three chances to beat a team with a pulse, and have not produced. Saturday is our fourth and final chance this season. I asked the other day about our best win, and there really isn't one to point to.

Perspective is important, and we are spoiled. But if we lost to Wake and beat SCAR, would you consider this season a success or a disappointment? Maybe "disappointing" is a better descriptor than "bad". I believe that it will be moot in the end, as we still end up with 10 wins. That may not achieve all of our goals, but how could anyone argue that it is not a successful season?

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Re: It's a great luxury to be able to call this a "bad" year

emoji_events [9]
Nov 18, 2021, 2:31 PM

Agree with both points. Dissapointing. But what griff pointed out, zero quality wins... And really (don't know about wake yet) NC State isn't a good team. Pitt, they're decent but I wouldn't classify them as a good team. It's not like we've played the entire year with our current injury list. Had we played the entire year with our current injury list, I could accept it.

My qualm is not this year alone, it's the little cracks the last couple years that haven't been addressed.

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Re: It's a great luxury to be able to call this a "bad" year


Nov 18, 2021, 2:49 PM

What are the, "little cracks the last couple years that haven't been addressed"?

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OL, especially in the middle of the line***

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:01 PM



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Re: It's a great luxury to be able to call this a "bad" year


Nov 18, 2021, 11:40 PM

Might be referring to last year 's playoff loss where we were dominated by OSU, regular season games: BC, ND, and previous year's CFP(both games)-

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Well if you think he was talking about the


Nov 18, 2021, 11:54 PM

decline of the running game since 2018, then I'm on board. But he said "cracks", with an s.

Maybe he could answer?

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Pitt & NCState are both good teams...not great, but good...


Nov 18, 2021, 6:55 PM

and better than us this year!

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Re: It's a great luxury to be able to call this a "bad" year

[3]
Nov 18, 2021, 5:06 PM



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Maybe "disappointing" is a better descriptor than "bad"

[2]
Nov 18, 2021, 5:29 PM

This line in your post sums up nicely.

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 18, 2021, 2:13 PM

At 2-8 against the spread, this season can only be considered an absolute train wreck. Teams are measured by championship trophies and records versus the spread. Everything else is just lip service.

The last time we were this bad against the spread, we fired the coach and I got evicted. Going into last season, Dabo was 24 games over .500. 7-15 in 2020 and 2021 is causing real pain for the true fans. This needs to get fixed.

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Re: A bad year?

emoji_events [14]
Nov 18, 2021, 2:27 PM

Coaches are judged by on the field results, classroom results and booster intake. Having been around college football for nearly 35 years, I've never seen a coach measured by the #### point spread. Covering doesn't mean squat when you lose. Get outa here with that nonsense. Go Tigers!

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Re: A bad year?

[3]
Nov 18, 2021, 2:45 PM

Screw the point spread. Have we broken the top 100 on offense yet this year?

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Re: A bad year?

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 2:57 PM

You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think the big money boosters that come up with the money to pay these coaches don’t care about the spread. 2011, Dabo beat spread by two games….got a new contract with big raise. Winning record against spread in 2015 and 2016, new contract. Crushed it by going 10-5 against spread in 2018, new huge contract. Went 5-7 last year, took $1M pay cut.

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Re: A bad year?

emoji_events [5]
Nov 18, 2021, 7:43 PM

The spread means nothing unless you are a gambler. Absolutely nothing. Nada. Zero.

Also, big money boosters didn’t get their money by betting on football played by 18-21 year olds…in fact, most people with “big money” don’t gamble at all, unless it’s in business. That’s why they still have money.

HTH

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 18, 2021, 11:58 PM

LOL the brakes got put on "Fast" Chad.

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 19, 2021, 7:59 AM

If that’s what you call knocking down 20 ounce beers at Buffalo Wild Wings on a Thursday night when you had Louisville and the over, so be it.

I’m sure you’ll say it was just a coincidence when Duke has a coaching change after going 4-7 against the spread.

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Re: A bad year?

[2]
Nov 19, 2021, 8:47 AM

True wins and losses are what really matters, but the record against the spread tells the direction of the program to an extent. When you are beating the spread consistently, you are doing better than expectations which means that you are generally improving. When you are losing to the spread consistently, you are not meeting expectations and generally digressing.

It has been an odd year so I don't know if the record against the spread is relevant. However, if the trend against the spread should continue next year, we should get really worried, really fast.

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 19, 2021, 8:54 AM

Finally, someone gets it!

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Re: A bad year?

[1]
Nov 19, 2021, 12:11 AM

Dude, I can’t tell if you’re being genuine or trolling but I am cracking up at this sizzling hot take. I mean this genuinely, no sarcasm, or judgement; sincere thanks for the laugh. This is some of why I come to chat boards. Well done sir. You’re welcome to (a beer) at my tailgate any time. Just don’t ask me to bet on The Tigers. One my last remaining principles. Here’s to hoping we win (and cover!) on Saturday vs Wake.

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 19, 2021, 9:02 AM

FastChad said:

At 2-8 against the spread, this season can only be considered an absolute train wreck. Teams are measured by championship trophies and records versus the spread. Everything else is just lip service.

The last time we were this bad against the spread, we fired the coach and I got evicted. Going into last season, Dabo was 24 games over .500. 7-15 in 2020 and 2021 is causing real pain for the true fans. This needs to get fixed.



Nobody gives a crap about the spread except degen gamblers. Teams are judged by W/L and championship yrophies

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Why are we comparing ourselves to other teams?

emoji_events [7]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:05 PM

We are Clemson. We have been the second best program in college football for the last 6 years. We have the highest paid coaching staff and the best facilities in college football. We are considered to have among the best talent and the best fans in college football.

In other words, we have many advantages that almost all other programs do not have. So why would we compare ourselves to them?

Besides, best is the standard, right? We should be comparing ourselves to ourselves, and based on that this year has been a major disappointment.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


This is another thinly veiled complaint about

[4]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:09 PM

lack of resources for basketball, isn’t it?

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No, it has nothing to do with basketball


Nov 18, 2021, 3:11 PM

and everything to do with football.

This isn't complicated.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: No, it has nothing to do with basketball

[2]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:22 PM

Yeah the football has had one bad year now in the last 10, yet we still have a slim outside shot at the ACC. Basketball has had almost exactly the opposite of that. You seem to be delighting in the football team’s shortcomings this year.

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I'm not delighted at all.


Nov 18, 2021, 4:30 PM

This has been a super frustrating football season. It's sad that you think I'm somehow enjoying this.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I'm not delighted at all.

emoji_events [5]
Nov 18, 2021, 4:42 PM

I’ve never seen you comment so much on football as this season and it’s usually all about how much Dabo gets paid, the resources football has, and the phrase “Best is the Standard.”

While I fully support basketball and I hope they have a great year, Brownell hasn’t even been in the same universe of success. It’s not even close. Dabo also started turning the football program around before the facilities were improved and before his pay was greatly increased. That’s how he was able to obtain those things. People literally bought in to what he was doing here. I hope this is finally Brad’s year.

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LOL.


Nov 19, 2021, 12:01 AM

You're fos.

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Oh, you want to see delight in losing? Come back when we

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 6:24 PM

lose a basketball game and look at all the "fans" relishing it...Nothing makes the RAG happier than seeing the basketball team lose

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That is so true!***

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 11:13 PM



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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: That is so true!***


Nov 19, 2021, 9:02 AM

I disagree. The basketball fans are much more fair weathered and cynical, but they still love to win. In the years when we have done well Clemson nation has gotten behind the team wholeheartedly. Not having confidence that they will win and wanting them to lose are vastly different things.

I am disappointed that Littlejohn is no longer a feared venue, like it has been, especially in the late 70's. Though the quality is similar, the support is not. However, make no mistake, if Brownell has them winning the support will come back. That will be especially true this year since fans are thirsting for more success.

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Re: Oh, you want to see delight in losing? Come back when we

[3]
Nov 19, 2021, 8:38 AM



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Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings? It's almost never for them.


That is so true!***

[3]
Nov 19, 2021, 8:55 AM



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Okay. I’ll tell you what else isn’t complicated.

emoji_events [5]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:24 PM

The reason the bar has been raised so high for football is because of the current head coach.

He has the resources because of what he accomplished.
He did not just sit around until a silver spoon appeared in his mouth. He earned it.

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Okay.


Nov 18, 2021, 4:32 PM

That doesn't change the fact that expectations are naturally going to be higher when you have so many advantages relative to other programs.

In other words, it's naturally going to call coaching decisions and strategies into question when you struggle against teams that have far fewer resources than you have.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


And see, you ALWAYS slip up


Nov 19, 2021, 12:05 AM

"... advantages relative to other programs."

"... far fewer resources than you have."

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That is what has made Duke basketball great. Facilities!

[3]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:36 PM

Cameron Indoor Stadium which is just slightly larger than my garage.

Nestled amongst the concrete and crime of Durham NC high school basketball players from around the globe clamour for the chance to participate in that 21st Century Wonderment. Matters not the staff that is there but rather the chance to basket ball in something similar to their local YMCA.

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the Orange Bowl is what made Miami so great.

[4]
Nov 18, 2021, 4:44 PM

And when they tore it down, well it's clear, Miami has suffered.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Duke has some of the best training facilities in the nation***

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 6:31 PM



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Perspective

emoji_events [7]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:21 PM

That's the answer. Perspective is always important. Viewing this solely against the backdrop of the past 6 years certainly makes this year an abject failure, but I believe it is entirely (and literally) short sighted. This year is a disappointment. It's fine to talk about why, to recognize it, to dissect it... but once you get into the game of using "best is the standard" as some sort of weapon giving you free reign to complain and whine then I think you've lost your perspective.

People complain about Dabo and other coaches being too outwardly positive, but I think THAT is precisely how you handle these sort of situations. You try your best to remain positive, and you do the work behind the scenes to make the changes necessary to right the ship, and you keep your perspective grounded in the work ahead.

"Best is the standard" was never intended to be a club to be used by fans to bash coaches and players. It's a mantra for doing OUR part to the best of OUR ability. Our part is being fans and supporting the team. It's fine to note and discuss what's going wrong, it's altogether another thing to act (like some folks are) as if it's your job to degrade and whine and complain.

So yeah, the answer is perspective.

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Re: Perspective


Nov 18, 2021, 4:02 PM

Exactly--leaders have to stay positive. Look at Florida.

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I mentioned best is the standard because Dabo


Nov 18, 2021, 4:10 PM

came up with that a few years ago as a defining principle for our program. From an article last year, Dabo said the following about "Best is the Standard:"

"Sometimes people may take that the wrong way. You don't see win national championships up there. That's not our goal. Our goal is to be the best we can be,” Swinney said. “We want to be our best. Whatever God gave you, be the best you can possibly be. That applies in every area whether it's the best coach you can be, the best player, whatever."

Link: https://www.si.com/college/clemson/football/best-is-the-standard-has-a-deep-meaning


In other words, it's pretty clear that it is intended to be a barometer for the program.

Viewing this season through that lens, we have not met that standard.

Likewise, viewing this season based on what we have accomplished recently, and were predicted/expected to accomplish this year, we have not met that standard.

If talking about "perspective" and comparing this season to seasons from previous eras and generations makes you feel better about this season, I think there is value in that. But it's failing to be our best if we do that while ignoring what this season could've (and perhaps should've) been when viewed in context of our many resources and advantages - many of which we didn't have years ago, and which most programs today don't have.

It's possible to be thankful for our amazing success in recent seasons, as well as our outstanding coaches and players, and everything that our program stands for, while also acknowledging how disappointing this season has been and how it has not met expectations. It's not either-or, nor should it be.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Maybe this is the “best” this particular group can be.

[1]
Nov 19, 2021, 9:21 AM

If you read his statement, that’s all he says he’s asking for is that everyone be the best that they can be.

He doesn’t say that being best necessarily means being better than anyone else.

That’s a fan-based interpretation.

Seems that it’s more of a fans perception that he is expecting “best” to mean winning a national title every year.

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Re: Perspective

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 8:41 PM

Agree. If only folks on Tigernet would hold themselves to the "Best" as their standard, we'd have a lot less mindless bashing, blame and scapegoating and more thoughtful comments. Even negative comments are fine, but the venom directed toward our coaches and players is way over the top for such a successful team in every sense of the word.

I've been blessed with some excellent bosses in my career. One of them told me "when you lead people and all #### is breaking lose and nothing is going right, that is when you need to be the most positive, encouraging, and supportive of your team. When they see you are not panicking and falling apart, you give them confidence to improve and make things better." I think this is exactly what Dabo is doing right now.

But I guess many on here want him to be Chicken Little. Another boss would revert to sarcasm when folks were losing it over things going wrong. He would say laughingly, "When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." Does this sound familiar on Tnet this year?

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Why can't you just be happy for our coaches and players?***

[3]
Nov 18, 2021, 4:42 PM



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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


They have to tell themselves something, they can't face the

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 6:21 PM

reality of situation

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You ask why we're comparing ourselves to other teams,


Nov 18, 2021, 6:25 PM

then you cite comparative statistics. Confused much?

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because it makes people feel better.***

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 6:56 PM



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There's something in these hills.


a famous philosopher once said

[1]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:15 PM

it's not having what you want. It's wanting what you've got.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIYiGA_rIls

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Geville Tiger on 2021 football season, "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: A bad year?


Nov 18, 2021, 3:30 PM

It's not about this year. It's about the ripple effect this year will have on the next 2-3 seasons for Clemson. Stop sunshine pumping.

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Some folks love to gripe about things

[3]
Nov 18, 2021, 3:32 PM

They think might happen.

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 19, 2021, 1:24 AM

We aren’t the coots, period!

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We keep getting better & better everyday, in every way!
“The only disability is a bad Attitude” Dabo Swinney!!
Let’s Go Tigers!


We’re gonna win 10 games in this “bad year” ...


Nov 21, 2021, 11:46 AM

This team has had to fight and scratch for everything, all year long. They have not lived up to expectations.

But, sometimes expectations are simply wrong.

When this group wins their next two (which they will) this will be seen as a year when expectations exceeded reality, but also a year when a great group of Clemson players kept on giving everything they had in an effort to be the best they could be.

Being the best you can be is the very essence of “Best is Standard” ...

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Re: A bad year?

[2]
Nov 18, 2021, 5:14 PM

I have faith the coaching staff hasn't forgotten how to do their jobs. Need to focus on OL recruiting/coaching, open up QB competition next season, start using the portal to our advantage and we will be back to winning the ACC and making play-offs. It is hard to win championships, even with 6 years of Watson and Lawrence starting we won just 2 national titles. Probably will take Klubnik or Manning to win another.

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Re: A bad year?


Nov 18, 2021, 5:51 PM

In regards to a bad year ,first off we need to see how the regular season plays out. We could win both of our last two games. split ,or lose both but I am not going to base a bad year on the final record ,but whether on how the team played.
Our defense has kept us in every game, and in fact won a couple of those games.
The same can not be said, IMO, about the offense .Throw out the 2 cupcake games( S.C. State is ok, but we should never play a Women's basketball school, period) and show me one game where we dominated on offense and did not need the defense to come to the rescue.
And please don't mention injuries because we have had injuries on both sides of the ball. Also injuries can, and should be, to some extent, chalked up to strength and conditioning, which is another matter.
Also I am not concerned about past seasons. The only season that matters is the one you are in now, and the only game that matters is the next one.
But this year has been bad in more ways than what the record will show; You have had inconsistent play from the offensive line, a quarterback who has not once shown any of the signs he did last year, more dropped passes than Carter and his little liver pills, receivers not running their routes ,overthrown/ underthrown passes, bubble screens that didn't work under Rob Spence, and certainly not working now, and of course those two pick sixes that cost us the Georgia game ,and certainly didn't help against Pitt.
But to me, the biggest problem this year is a coaching staff that can make all sorts of excuses about the poor play of the offense, but as of yet doesn't seem to have a fix.
Fix the problems, or next year that rare air you mention will be "GWTW" (look it up).

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For this tiger squandering one of our best

[2]
Nov 18, 2021, 10:48 PM

Defenses ever was a bad year.

We should have GASSED Georgia… that one was hard to swallow

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From an oldtimers perspective, I can easily tell you the


Nov 19, 2021, 8:08 AM

difference between now being 7-5 and then being 7-5.

Talent.

Back then, when we lost, we were just flat out talented, and it was easy to see on the field that we were physically overmatched. We had to work hard for those 7 wins.

The way that we recruit now, talent is NOT the issue. Even now, after all the injuries, and defections, raw talent is still in abundance, unless you don't believe recruiting rankings at all.

The losses hurt this year because just about all of them could have, and in most cases SHOULD have been wins.

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We had waaay more talent than the teams we lost to(besides UGA)


Nov 19, 2021, 8:28 AM

So 7-3 in a "bad year" is nothing to brag about. We can and have just shown up and beat most of these weak ACC teams.

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We need to win the rest of our games to continue our 10 win


Nov 19, 2021, 8:49 AM

season streak. Wake/Carolina/Bowl Game.

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Re: A bad year?

[2]
Nov 19, 2021, 8:50 AM

I was at Clemson for all 3 Hootie years. This year doesn't even move the needle towards "bad year" for me.

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