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Replies: 26
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CU Guru [1189]
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4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 1:30 AM
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Piggybacking of some comments from an earlier post about the LSU game in 2012, was 4th and 16 the pivotal moment in Dabo's master plan that has gotten us where we are?
Yes, Bowden unknowingly hired the successor that would ultimately bring in Spiller which in turn sparked recruiting, the 2011 ACC Championship, etc. But hard to make a case against 4th and 16 as the one defining MOMENT that set up the journey that was just around the corner.
Anyone got a better one? Let's hear 'em!
Love that we have been 'dogs in the last 3 bowls. That's when it seems we play best!
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CU Guru [1305]
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Yes I would tend to agree
Dec 11, 2015, 1:43 AM
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Although started momentum the year before w the 3 ranked back to back to back wins against Auburn, FSU, VT. That season had its ups and downs but we improbably won the ACC for the first time in 20 years that year.
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CU Guru [1189]
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I was looking for something from that year, but
Dec 11, 2015, 1:52 AM
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as big as the wins were, the losses epitomized "Clemsoning." We lost 4 games that we should not have and even winning the ACC led to the nightmare of the WVU game.
No one singular moment or play that season stood out to me like 4th and 16 the next year to reclaim all the respect lost in the OB. I feel outside of the #ClemsonFamily, we were the laughing stock of the nation after WVU, and the team was all but dead in the water against the Mighty SEC until that miraculous play that set up the game winning field goal and propelled us into the UGA win the next year.
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Walk-On [115]
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Re: 4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 2:03 AM
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I think we have passed several stages in Dabo's era. The first to me was the 09 win at Miami in overtime, the ACC championship was another, then 4th and 16, then UGA 2013, then 2014 Orange Bowl, then Notre Dame 2015, and now CFL playoffs.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Auburn 2011 for me
Dec 11, 2015, 2:18 AM
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I'll never forget that 3 game Auburn-FSU-@VT stretch. After the Wofford game I would have taken 1-2, winning all 3 was almost unimaginable. Even though AU wasn't that good that year, the win along, paired with Sammys coming out party and Dabos post game speech sent a message
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Orange Blooded [2528]
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totally agree.remember we were down 14 points early
Dec 11, 2015, 4:55 AM
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twice maybe.. even though auburn eventually proved they were not that good, we did snap their log winning streak that day.
wofford played us close,i believe, and down early to auburn i was very concerned we would have a repeat of 2010 season. then all of a sudden we started to click, and things have not been the same since.
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Hall of Famer [24763]
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Yep... +1.***
Dec 11, 2015, 4:07 AM
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CU Medallion [53773]
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The signing of James Davis was the turning point as far as I
Dec 11, 2015, 4:21 AM
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am concerened. It has been a gradual climb since then. But, I think you are right too. Pulling that game out was like hitting a booster rocket!!
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Oculus Spirit [93667]
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I was thinking the hiring of Dabo was the turning point.
Dec 11, 2015, 5:50 AM
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The firing of Tommy was when we kicked in the turbo and DW's recruitment is about when we hit the nitro. We're cruising at Mach I with half a pedal left.
I hope there aren't any curves ahead.
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CU Medallion [51531]
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There were two turning points.
Dec 11, 2015, 6:34 AM
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And they were both losses; Alabama and WV. It was the responses to those loses that changed the program (obviously the response to the Bama game came a month later).
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: There were two turning points.
Dec 11, 2015, 7:32 AM
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> And they were both losses; Alabama and WV. It was the
> responses to those loses that changed the program
> (obviously the response to the Bama game came a month
> later).
Spot on. We were discussing the 4th and 16 the other day to relate the differences between DW4 and TB10. I think DW4 hits the wide open Humphries down the middle.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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I have to give Bowden credit for a few things.
Dec 11, 2015, 8:10 AM
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One, he could recruit. And he could find good recruiters to help us recruit. He was only a mediocre coach though. I often think of some of the talent Tommy Bowden brought to Clemson and just think about what it would be like having that in this system. Can you imagine James Davis, CJ Spiller, Jacoby Ford, etc. all on this team under our current system?
Also, cudos to Bowden for taking a gamble on a former coach turned real estate agent. BOWDEN saw something from the start with Dabo. The hire was controversial when it originally happened. But then Bowden stepped up and recommended Dabo for the interim coaching job. That too was controversial. I think the only person who really knew was Bowden. He saw something in Dabo that we're only now truly understanding.
But going back to your original idea.....I don't think there was one "moment" that was a turning point, other than possibly Dabo's hire. If you're fundamentally sound and play well and smart, the moments will just happen. It's the long, hard process of getting to the moments that signify a turning point. You can have a single play define or mark a turning point in any single game. But for a SEASON.....any season or even a program as a whole is not defined by a moment, if they're good.
If you think a moment can turn around a program, or even a season, you're probably going to think a single player, or maybe 2-3 all-star players, are going to change a program or a season. That was Bowden's philosophy and we all saw the ceiling in that philosophy with Bowden. Just think about it this way....
We got the opportunity last year to play Oklahoma without DW4. And we beat them. We beat them badly. And that was without our best player. We lost how many players on defense last year? And what have we done this year with what we have? We have a head coach who doesn't rely, and does not want to rely, on certain players, or even on "moments". He's a big-picture guy and that's why we're where we are.
I promise you the "moments" Dabo cares about are the moments when you hold that ACC championship trophy, and this year the only other "moment" Dabo will have is when we hold that crystal football and sit at 15-0.
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Orange Blooded [3528]
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Ending Auburn's win stread***
Dec 11, 2015, 8:17 AM
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CU Guru [1904]
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I'd actually say the 2010 Meineke Car Care Bowl was. Before you laugh..
Dec 11, 2015, 8:23 AM
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After that night, DABO and the boys set out for something special, recruited some serious talent, brought in the Chad, and next thing you know we are 8-0. Yes, that season had its ups and downs but we had ten wins and an ACC Championship for the first time in 20 years.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: 4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 8:27 AM
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Turning point was the completion of the WEZ.
Was the first sign in a while that our administration was willing to do what it takes to win.
I know Bowden got a lot of grief here but he is the one who started the ball rolling on our facility improvements.
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Starter [352]
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i honestly believe the WVU orange bowl was the turning point
Dec 11, 2015, 8:34 AM
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everything that has happened to bring Clemson to where it currently sits has happened since that game. 2011 was a year where stars aligned in just the right way for us to get to charlotte and win an acc title, but losses to GT, SC, and NCSU made that season feel, in the end, bittersweet and eerily similar to ones we'd experienced under bowden. the only difference, we won the ACC.
all of that, i believe, ended in the maelstrom that we endured (which i was present for) in miami. my buddy and i were driving back to Charleston the next day and he looked at me and said "we will never win another national title, our program was just buried." and it was hard to refute that at the time.
that game brought in Venables and Reed. We devoted ourselves to recruiting and its almost like that game made us say, "never again!" all of the great moments we have had have all been, in some way, traced back to that game.
i guess its one of those "you have to hit rock bottom in order to get better and move on" moments.
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Legend [16505]
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I agree. It forced Dabo to make some changes and they were
Dec 11, 2015, 8:40 AM
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certainly great ones!
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Orange Blooded [4483]
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Re: 4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 8:44 AM
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Yes, I remember that fateful night. It was a huge moment in Clemson Football history.
It inspired the post below. This little posting got me invited to than years All In Ball where I was treated like a king by Dabo's staff. They actually made a print of the poem and framed it along with pics from the game and auctioned it off. It was a night to remember. here's the link for those who didn't see. It was my best post ever.
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=13407881
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MVP [508]
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Re: 4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 6:29 PM
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That's the first time I've seen that and I went ahead and gave it a TU!!!
GO TIGERS!!!
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CU Guru [1127]
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Re: 4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 9:03 AM
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There have been a lot of things. I consider a turning point to be a moment in which things RADICALLY changed. Things have been steadily improving for years. I think the turning point was CJ's return for 2009. More so than his initial signing this stabilized Clemson. This was a defining moment for Dabo, Clemson, and CJ. If he doesn't return we probably finish with 6 or 7 wins and probably makes 2010 worse. All of that would have prevented a lot of the recruits we got in 2011 (Sammy, Tony, Stephone, others). Without that class we don't sniff the ACC championship or 10 wins.
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All-In [30814]
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October 3rd , 2008.***
Dec 11, 2015, 9:06 AM
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CU Medallion [65416]
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Absolutely. I jumped up out of my chair when Catman hit
Dec 11, 2015, 11:26 AM
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that field goal for the win, yelling, FINALLY! WE ARE BACK! Back in the days of Treadwell and Saint Danniford, we would find a way to win the close games, but up until this time, we seemed to have lost that edge in recent times. It has been nothing but onward and upward since then.
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Orange Blooded [2762]
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1 of the maturing points- FSU last yr to me was the final 1***
Dec 11, 2015, 11:29 AM
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Oculus Spirit [80291]
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That's definitely the biggest play in a big time game that
Dec 11, 2015, 6:32 PM
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I can remember.
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Team Captain [463]
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right after the usf loss***
Dec 11, 2015, 7:12 PM
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Legend [15863]
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4th and 16- THE CATALYST, Besting LSU was the 1st
Dec 11, 2015, 7:24 PM
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step to turning the corner
4th and 16, seeing the possibility and the WV beatdown was just that bit that was a step closer.
LSU
Ohio st
OU
13-0 ACC champs
Nice body of work built on a solid Orange foundation
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110%er [5024]
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Re: 4th and 16 the turning point of the program?
Dec 11, 2015, 8:26 PM
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All good things are turning points and 4th and 16 was one, but the day I realized that the Tigers were for real was the day Spencer Shuey nailed the GaTech A-Back in the end zone for a safety. It was a complete change in LB play (reads and aggressiveness) that made one of the biggest statements I've ever seen.
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50
