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Orange Blooded [2937]
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Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 7:24 PM
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You can post until you’re blue in the face but our program has regressed since Jack’s recruits are no longer around to make Monte “We eat pressure for breakfast.” look decent his first couple of years
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Orange Blooded [2723]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 7:33 PM
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The bad thing is Monte isn’t even on the hot seat yet. When we don’t make the tournament this year, he will probably still have two more years to work with.
He should 100% already be on the hot seat. He was hired to advance us past where Leggett had us in his last years. That has not happened, and this is year SIX!
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Hall of Famer [24724]
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Yeah that’s the thing
Mar 12, 2021, 7:51 PM
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I heard nothing about him being on the hot seat until the last week. It’s going to take at least two more years
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All-In [43978]
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You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 12, 2021, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake ] |
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we were off to a great start last year until the season was canceled due to COVID, and this season just started.
He isn’t going to be put on the hot seat in the middle of the season.
Why can’t people let the season play out before freaking out and calling for coaches to be fired?!?
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CU Guru [1536]
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Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 12, 2021, 8:49 PM
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I’m not sure why people keep running to last year to defend monte.. please go look at the schedule who we beat and those scores before jumping to “we had a really good team until covid struck” argument. I think we had a solid mediocre team last year that was probably a regional team at best... we were not gonna win a lot of acc series last year much like this year... I support monte but something needs to change and I get this team is young, but kind of tired of that excuse ... his teams have been fundamentally bad for a few years... his best teams like previously mentioned, were jacks players .... name one monte recruited player that has been a stud.... I’ll wait
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Varsity [223]
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Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 12, 2021, 10:09 PM
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Ok I will bite..
How about Sam weatherly, 3rd round draft pick 2020 pick #81.
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Orange Blooded [2723]
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Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 12, 2021, 10:21 PM
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That’s debatable. He was mainly drafted on potential, as he had a 95 mph fastball and was the prototypical lefty. He splashed onto the scene last year as our Friday night starter and did great for the few starts he had, but he always had major control issues. He always had more walks than innings pitched. Who knows how he would have finished that season or if he will ever get to the show, but he definitely has potential.
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All-In [48007]
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Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 12, 2021, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because ] |
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Judge, no disrespect but Monte has been on the hot seat since the 3rd year. The true baseball fans have always been wary of Monte.
Ppl were ticked when ok st came to our house and embarrassed us... But at that time you had to give Monte time to get his players in. Unlike football and basketball, baseball recruiting tends to run a year to two behind. You get commits early.
So in baseball it was going to take year 3 to 4 for montes players to get here. And yes, baseball fans were not happy with Corbin coming in 2 yrs in a row and kicking our tail.
You didn't hear chatter or hot seat because we actually had good records. Again, the true fans (some that got run off) that go to every game, could see we weren't getting and developing pitchers, nor were we developing any identity... Whether we were going to play long ball or small ball. That still holds true in year 6.
Unlike your bball, Clemson is blue blood in baseball.
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CU Medallion [64873]
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but I DO have a pretty
Mar 13, 2021, 9:49 AM
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good memory. The OVERWHELMING sentiment at the time of Monte's hiring was that we HAD to get him, because the Lamecocks wanted him. If we let them hire him first, they would be superior to us for years to come. You may dispute this, but there were posts on here almost ad nauseum to that effect.
When I say I don't have a dog in this fight, I mean that I am not on board with booting our coach, ANY coach, in the early part of a season. Especially a season where Covid affects things, and the team has so many young players.
Now, if, as I see argued on here a lot, the team is not FUNDAMENTALLY sound, then pressure can be brought to bear to hire assistant coaches who teach fundamentals better. But, if kids haven't been taught these all the way from tee ball to now, it is very late to expect major changes. (Especially bunting, which is an acquired skill for sure.)
In summary, contrary to popular opinion, Clemson does NOT have a birthright to excellence in ANY athletic endeavor, and that includes baseball. Every season, every team, in every sport, is different. This baseball team is just getting started. Give them, and the coaches, a chance to see who, and what, works well for this particular version of Tigers, before you cut bait and commence to beyotching after every loss.
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All-In [43978]
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Nothing wrong with people wanting more for our baseball program.
Mar 13, 2021, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because ] |
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I’m not saying Monte is the guy to turn things around. I don’t know if he is, but I hope he is. Regardless, letting the season play out before calling for him to be fired seems to be the most logical approach. No amount of complaining and gnashing of teeth now is going to change the fact that Radakovich is going to wait until after the season to make an evaluation and a decision.
I do know that we haven’t been to Omaha or even won a regional in over a decade. Today’s baseball recruits were barely in preschool then. I don’t even think we are a top 25 program these days. So let’s work on winning a regional first. Then we can go from there.
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Orange Blooded [2723]
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Re: Nothing wrong with people wanting more for our baseball program.
Mar 13, 2021, 3:43 PM
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No amount of spin will ever bring Clemson baseball to the deep dark depths of Clemson basketball. There’s a different standard so spare us the dumbed down basketball expectations.
Monte was hired to take Clemson baseball back to Omaha, not win regular season games. Hes won less and less of those over the years as his players have settled in (last year means nothing, we hadn’t 5 games against good competition and our hitting was atrocious). He has had this program on a steady downward trajectory since year 1, so him being on the hot seat is completely fair. If we wanted to fizzle out in a regional, we could have just kept Jack, who probably would have had this team back to our standards by now.
And why are you even commenting on Clemson baseball? You couldn’t name 5 players off the top of your head, but you think you know if Monte should be on the hot seat or not? Just because Brownell gets crapped on everyday doesn’t mean all coaches should be immune from criticism.
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All-In [43978]
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It’s really sad that you wrote all of that.
Mar 13, 2021, 5:22 PM
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First of all, there is no spin here. The reality is that DRad won’t fire Monte mid season, no matter how much people on an internet message board complain.
Second, basketball standards have nothing to do with baseball. I never said they did. But if you want to go there, our basketball team this year is far better than our baseball team.
Third, I’ve said nothing about my long-term expectations for baseball. I think it’s common knowledge that we need to win a regional for the first time in over a decade before we should talk about Omaha.
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CU Guru [1890]
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Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 13, 2021, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because ] |
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Agree 100% judge. 2018 coots 37-26 including losses to Forman, Citadel and PC. Calling for Kingston head yet somehow they came within 1 win from Omaha..
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110%er [7916]
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Re: You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because
Mar 13, 2021, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to You’re right, Monte isn’t on the hot seat because ] |
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Because the average fan is clueless. The only button the know to push is fire the coach which rarely works because coaching is only one of many variables
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake ] |
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Monte isn’t on as much of a hot seat because Jack’s biggest detractors didn’t actually give a flying #### about baseball. They just saw that USC had won a couple championships and went ape #### crazy. They were also projecting aggravation for football losing to USC in the same period. Now that South Carolina isn’t a significant program everyone is chill about baseball again. We’ll probably have a losing record this year - something that hasn’t happened since 1957, before Wilhelm became coach. But he only had 2 seasons on his contract so we’ll probably let him ride that out, put the program in a deeper hole, then hire a comparable replacement because top coaches aren’t coming to program that fires Hall of Famers.
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All-In [48007]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 9:30 PM
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Not sure what fans you're talking about but the ones go up with me weren't happy about Jack getting fired or Monte getting hired. And yes, I've loved Clemson baseball since 1965.
At the same time viztiz, you're right, I wasn't happy with always getting there and getting our nose bloodied. I apologize, I didn't know or foresee the repercussions of not even winning a regional... That's all spilt milk. Where do we go from here?
Honestly sick to my stomach over bball and baseball. All sports take talent. Unfortunately we're not recruiting talent in either sport. Or at least not enough to get us where I wish we were.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 9:48 PM
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From what I’ve read we’re pretty close to the same page. I go to more Clemson baseball than anyone I know outside of the upstate. In my experience the folks who put the most pressure on DRad to fire Jack weren’t particularly invested in baseball. They were just seeing red over USC. I know plenty of hardcore baseball fans were dissatisfied with the state of affairs. But Jack deserved to open the renovated facilities. And I firmly believe had he guided Beers first season, with Okey and a solid pitching rotation plus at least one highly drafted recruit that was coming until we fired Jack - I think he’d have been back in Omaha or it would have been obvious to even him to move on.
DRad bungled the whole thing too. Wanted to let Leggett stay if he fired Pep. Turned into an ego matter rather than what was actually in the best interest of Clemson. If firing Jack was best he should have simply done so and not played games. If keeping was Jack was best he should have made it work and not demand red meat for donors that have his phone number.
I’m not getting younger. Selfishly, I want to go back to Omaha. And there is no prospect on the horizon.
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All-In [48007]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 10:23 PM
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Absolutely. You couldn't have hit that nail on the head any better with a robotic sledgehammer.
I've complained and probably posted way more than I should. But you are so spot on. DRad should have grown a pair and not turned it into a shyatt show. As dissapointed as I was, it was a whole heck of a lot more fun going to Omaha and losing to not even host and win a region.
Having a bad season is going to happen. Especially playing what amounts to high school players... But the rub to me, is those young players and pitchers we brought in 2-3 years ago6 don't seem to be progressing. Maybe I'm just a too old coger that should try and learn not to care.
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Varsity [223]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake ] |
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Disagree 100%. Most of us didn’t like jack cuz he was an a-hole who refused to recruit SC players. He didn’t think they could play.
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Orange Blooded [2723]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 10:22 PM
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And monte is showing us he was correct, as our talent has diminished with mostly SC players.
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Orange Blooded [2937]
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My thoughts precisely Tigerlife!!
Mar 12, 2021, 11:01 PM
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Nm
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 13, 2021, 7:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake ] |
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I don’t know somehow coots managed to win 2 nat champs with mostly players from SC that Jack passed on including nat player of year Michael Roth from SC.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 13, 2021, 12:42 AM
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If you were able to look back with any objectivity you would realize that even the South Carolina staff had buried Roth at the bottom of their bench. He had one other game start all of 2010 and got rocked. He’d pretty much only worked situational relief after that. Not even USC knew what they had on their hands when he started against Clemson and his rise to prominence in college baseball was completely improbable.
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 13, 2021, 12:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake ] |
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I don’t know somehow coots managed to win 2 nat champs with mostly players from SC that Jack passed on including nat player of year Michael Roth from SC.
He recruited Roth ...Roth grew up in gville and fam go here. Sc offered first and finally clemson. He didn’t like jack.
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Orange Blooded [2937]
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Meanwhile we have SC players and were being told they
Mar 12, 2021, 10:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake ] |
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Haven’t been taught to bunt or run the bases properly in high school. Jack has forgotten more about baseball than you will ever know
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110%er [9656]
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Well, if he has forgotten that much...
1
Mar 13, 2021, 8:50 AM
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then it’s probably a good thing he’s no longer coaching.
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Varsity [223]
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Re: Meanwhile we have SC players and were being told they
Mar 13, 2021, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Meanwhile we have SC players and were being told they ] |
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Disagree 100%, first there was no HS baseball last year but even if there were these kids spend way more time with club ball coaches than HS coaches these days. A club ball coach job is get them into Showcases for college scouts to evaluate. Could be wrong but I have not seen college coaches give scholarships for bunting and baserunning..in addition the young players still have to adjust to the speed of college game. While I am not happy with the base running so far I believe they get better..
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Orange Blooded [2937]
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Re: In fact you helped make my point entirely!
Mar 13, 2021, 11:57 AM
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Thanks as a SC native and baseball fan I will.
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Legend [17227]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 7:50 PM
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Wasn't it "We eat pressure like candy"?
Either way, point taken.
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All-In [27256]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 7:59 PM
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I remember this bored during jacks last year. It was waaaaay worse than what we see going on with monte.
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Hall of Famer [24724]
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Jack’s last few years were a disaster
Mar 12, 2021, 8:01 PM
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Who remembers the 18-1 loss to Oregon in the regionals?
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: Jack’s last few years were a disaster
Mar 12, 2021, 9:16 PM
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Give Corbin or Kevin o a hefty contract let’s go
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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They ain't coming***
Mar 12, 2021, 9:17 PM
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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CU Medallion [56598]
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Re: Right. Monty may be a mistake but firing Jack wasn't***
Mar 12, 2021, 10:36 PM
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I’m sure they were reluctant to fire Jack because of possible vindictiveness or “respect for Jack” that would keep his coaching tree and other good coaches away.
You have a Hall of Fame coach that was absolutely adamant not to retire gracefully and on his own terms. For prideful reasons he was going to force Clemson to fire him. It was a lose-lose situation but sometimes you have to cut off a leg to stop the gangrene from killing you. You aren’t going to be happy about the results though.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Right. Monty may be a mistake but firing Jack wasn't***
Mar 12, 2021, 10:50 PM
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Then why the obvious gamesmanship over forcing Jack to fire
Pep? Did DRad really think Dan Pepicelli was really the limiting factor for Clemson success? Of course not. Which means that DRad was not acting with sincerity in his motives. He just wanted Jack to a) genuflect and b) give him a bone to through to the wolves. He only had one year left on his contract. He had an outstanding class lined up (and only 2 years on his contract and tons of negative energy hadn’t effected that). Letting him fulfill his contract would have mitigated all the negative energy from his coaching tree and opened the possibility of passing the torch to one of them. But honestly, and I get it, every minute spent thinking about baseball is a waste of time from a financial standpoint to the AD.
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All-In [48007]
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Re: Right. Monty may be a mistake but firing Jack wasn't***
Mar 12, 2021, 11:48 PM
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That's where I think imho where a lot of AD's get it wrong. Jocks are jocks. Most play 2 sports in highschool. Heck, Dabo's probably recruited better baseball and basketball players than any of our coaches. DW4 ring a bell. He was a heck of a baller.
Anyway, my point is this. It may cost you up front but how many footballers are out there that learn about LSU from seeing them in Omaha. Same with coastal. Winning baseball helped develop football. Does that make sense?
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110%er [8514]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 9:24 PM
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My old brain is not what it used to be but seems like I remember people yelling to fire Jack, the way they do Monte, Brad, Elliott or anyone else that is blamed for a loss. News flash. One team wins and one loses.
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Orange Blooded [3874]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 12, 2021, 10:48 PM
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You can post until you’re blue in the face but our program has regressed since Jack’s recruits are no longer around to make Monte “We eat pressure for breakfast.” look decent his first couple of years
No it wasn't. While I am disappointed that Monte has struggled Jack needed to go. The program had become complacent and Jack was an absolute jerk.
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Orange Blooded [2189]
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Every hire is a good hire until they lose a
Mar 13, 2021, 8:42 AM
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few games. Then that hire becomes the worst one ever. Except for Dabo. Hardly anyone agreed with hiring an unproven WR coach. Now he’s the best coach we have. . . Funny how these things look through the rear view mirror.
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 13, 2021, 9:31 AM
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You should do your homework. Jack's record was up and down depending on talent. At the end, most were calling for a change. It was the right thing to do. Monte's doing fine. But, frankly, no Clemson coach will ever be safe from the knee-jerk reactionaries, especially on this board. As evidence: the call for Dabo's firing in 2010 and the constant "insight" here by football "experts"; the persistent call to fire Brad for 11 years; even those that complain about DRad. It's pathetic. I'm happy that you don't have a board at your work where members of the p-nut gallery can weigh in on your competence or lack thereof.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Firing Jack to hire Monte was a mistake
Mar 13, 2021, 12:31 PM
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No SR/Omaha for 5 years = time for a change
No SR/Omaha for 6 years = doing fine
Big brain math.
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CU Guru [1797]
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6 years?
Mar 13, 2021, 3:36 PM
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Didn’t know we had a SR or CWS last year? Also didn’t know we already played them this year? What 6 years are you referring to?
Big brain math?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: 6 years?
Mar 13, 2021, 4:54 PM
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It’s not that complicated. Leggett went 5 seasons without going to a SR/CWS and firing him was “the right thing to do” according the person I was directly replying to. Lee, in his 6th season (a matter of fact regardless of circumstance), has never advanced past a regional and is in possession of a losing record at the time of posting by the person I was directly responding to is “doing fine.” Implying that not only is he not currently on a hot seat, that season’s current tranjectory is also, “fine.” So that is what I was referring to since you needed it so clearly spelled out. However it was a snarky internet reply and I imagine you could have figured that out.
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CU Guru [1797]
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4 seasons pal
Mar 13, 2021, 5:51 PM
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Can’t count post season that didn’t or hasn’t happened. I know it doesn’t fit in with your agenda but facts are facts. Relax. Clemson lost today you should be happy.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: 4 seasons pal
Mar 13, 2021, 5:55 PM
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This is his 6th season. No matter how much of a hard on you have for him. He got paid last year. His contract still expires in 2023. He still hasn’t advanced out of a regional and he is now 2 games below .500. It’s fine to think that’s acceptable. Just admit it.
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CU Guru [1797]
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Rage on little man
Mar 13, 2021, 6:00 PM
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Hope we turn it around this year. Go Tigers!
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Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10761
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: Rage on little man
Mar 13, 2021, 6:08 PM
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C’mon brah. You came at me. I certainly hope we turn it around too. If you actually look you’ll see I’ve never called to fire him, much less midseason. But I’m more than a little tired of people cheerleading the mediocrity too. And by that comment I mean the guy I was originally, actually replying to, not you. But I think comparing Lee to Corbin certainly falls into the category.
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