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110%er [6394]
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LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 10:45 AM
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Let’s see how well our LBs have developed under BV.
4 star, Tre Lamar, 58 (undrafted) 4 star, Shaq Smith, 81 (undrafted) 4 star, Dorian O’Daniel, 100 (4th) 4 star, Ben Boulware, 183 (undrafted) 4 star, Chad Smith, 230 (undrafted) 3 star, Isaiah Simmons, 451 (1st) 3 star, Kendall Joseph, 593 (undrafted) 3 star, TJ Burrell, 978 (undrafted) 2 star, Jalen Williams, 1949 (undrafted) 2 star, JD Davis, 3073 (undrafted) 2 star, Judah Davis, 3074 (undrafted)
TBD on...
5 star, Trenton Simpson, 26 (lock) 5 star, Barrett Carter, 32 (lock) 4 star, Jeremiah Trotter Jr, (lock) 4 star, Sergio Allen, 218 (IDK) 4 star, Kevin Swint, 260 (IDK) 4 star, Vonta Bentley, 273 (IDK) 4 star, Kane Patterson, 330 (IDK) 3 star, Keith Maguire, 442 (IDK) 3 star, Jake Venables, 455 (doubtful) 3 star, Baylon Spector, 610 (doubtful) 3 star, James Skalski, 680 (doubtful)
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CU Medallion [67842]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 10:53 AM
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left out Goodson- starting in the NFL. Also Shaq left for MD and his last year
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110%er [6394]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 11:31 AM
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I left out those that weren’t recruited by BV. BJ Goodson and Stephone Anthony were recruited by Kevin Steele
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 12:25 PM
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BJ Goodson didn't play a single snap for Kevin Steele and was an instate prospect we were taking regardless of who the DC was. Credit goes to BV on the "development" of BJ.
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110%er [6394]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 6:52 PM
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Point taken.
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Orange Blooded [2896]
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3 out of 12 is 25% get drafted. That’s way above avg
Feb 15, 2021, 11:07 AM
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3.8% of college football players get drafted so LB developed is above average if draft status is the barometer.
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All-In [27324]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 11:09 AM
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Isaiah Simmons a 3 star?! Wow we either hit a home run or the recruiting services struck out swinging.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Or BV took his raw talent and DEVELOPED him into a monster***
Feb 15, 2021, 4:51 PM
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 11:12 AM
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I don't understand how we won two national championships with most of our players that were not drafted by the pros. And, how were we able to be one of the best defensive teams in the country with these undeveloped players?
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110%er [6394]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 11:34 AM
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Deshaun Watson played out of his mind in 2016. Trevor Lawrence and the greatest defensive line in program history in 2018.
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All-In [40777]
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I guess you missed the part where he said we’ve been one of
Feb 15, 2021, 11:48 AM
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the best defensive teams in the country. Deshaun and Trevor never played one snap for our defense. Deshaun didn’t make the goal line stand against ND in 2015. Deshaun didn’t leave the Buckeyes with a goose egg on the scoreboard. Trevor didn’t hold ND to 3 points. Trevor didn’t hold one of the most prolific offenses in CFB history to 16 points. The defense is coached by BV and you want to cherry pick a position to create a false narrative. BV has done a better job of doing more with less than anyone. Go away.
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110%er [6394]
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Re: I guess you missed the part where he said we’ve been one of
Feb 15, 2021, 11:58 AM
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I said that Trevor had the best defensive line in program history. That was me giving credit to the defense as well as having a generational talent at QB. And Deshaun carried the team to the title in 2016 against Bama. We had the significant QB advantage with Deshaun going up against a true freshman named Jalen Hurts, who played terrible. That Bama team was way more talented, but we had the best player on the field.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: LB development ] |
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Facts.
Alabama’s team was far superior to our team in 2016 IMO. Deshaun just played out of his mind.
With TL, we had the benefit of a first round DB (who did really well his rookie year) and the best DLine I. Program history.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 4:03 PM
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I don't know about that. We had NFL talent all over the field that night.
Offense: DW, Gallman, Williams, Cain, McCloud, Renfrow, Leggett, Hyatt
Defense: Bryant, Watkins, Wilkins, Ferrell, Lawrence (#### what a DL that was and not even including Huggins, Pagano or Pinckney), O'Daniel, Tankersley, and Fields on defense.
That's a pretty loaded team.
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All-In [40777]
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^THIS^
Feb 15, 2021, 4:30 PM
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I don’t think any reasonable unbiased person could see it any other way. People who dislike Clemson can keep telling themselves whatever they want to make themselves feel better but Clemson had a loaded team that year.
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110%er [6394]
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Re: ^THIS^
Feb 15, 2021, 7:24 PM
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Drafted players per team...
Bama: 36 Clemson: 20
That Bama team was insanely talented. Far more talented than Clemson. Deshaun carried us in that game. He went up against a defense that had the entire starting 11 get drafted, including 4 in the 1st round.
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Legend [17605]
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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LB has never been our strength under Dabo...
Feb 15, 2021, 11:23 AM
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but that may be changing. Next couple of years we look very strong and athletic.
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110%er [6394]
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Re: LB has never been our strength under Dabo...
Feb 15, 2021, 11:35 AM
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Oh yeah. I believe Trenton, Carter, and Trotter Jr all have a chance to get drafted really high. The jury is still out on the rest of them.
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CU Medallion [67842]
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Re: LB has never been our strength under Dabo...
Feb 15, 2021, 2:07 PM
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might let them play a snap or two of college ball before moving them to the NFL.
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All-American [557]
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On point throughout thread...
Feb 15, 2021, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: LB has never been our strength under Dabo... ] |
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Objective perspective was met with hostility, but shredded dissenting opinions with a superior knowledge of the subject matter-
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110%er [5072]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 11:47 AM
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Really stands out that we haven't had as much success recruiting at LB compared to other positions. That seems to be changing over the past year or two though.
I also wouldn't say draft position is always the result of development though. Boulware developed into one of the best linebackers in the country IMO, but didn't really have the size and speed for the NFL.
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Associate AD [823]
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Dorian O'Daniel was a 3rd Round Pick***
Feb 15, 2021, 12:08 PM
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nm
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CU Medallion [65458]
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In the true Russian fashion, methinks you are cherrypicking
Feb 15, 2021, 12:26 PM
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your list to fit your agenda. Where are Stephone Anthony and Tony Steward on the list?
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110%er [6394]
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Re: In the true Russian fashion, methinks you are cherrypicking
Mar 31, 2021, 10:23 AM
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I didn't include them because BV didn't recruit them, Kevin Steele did. Same thing with BJ Goodson. We can give BV credit to them, but that just means Kevin Steele recruited as many NFL draft picks in one class as BV has recruited in his Clemson tenure.
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110%er [8113]
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I'd be curious to see other past CFP teams too
Feb 15, 2021, 2:41 PM
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Once in a generation LBs don't come around often. My thought is that a college LB is totally different than an NFL LB. I could be wrong, just interested in what the other CFP teams produce.
Go Tigers AND Stay Well Clemson Nation!
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Orange Blooded [2565]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 3:05 PM
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Think you could be wrong on Skalski. If he is healthy and gets a full season in, he likely will get a get shot in 'the league'.
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Orange Blooded [2523]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 3:13 PM
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We have some serious talent at LB right now. I'm not sure someone like Spector will be able to hold on to their starting role. Also, why are we giving guys like Jake Venables scholarships? He's taking reps from better players like Bentley.
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 3:29 PM
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In a word? COMPLACENCY.
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Commissioner [945]
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Look at it both ways...
Feb 15, 2021, 4:33 PM
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Interesting topic.
There are a handful of guys that are in the lower half of your list that have developed well...and I doubt they were ever considered as potential draftees coming out of high school.
Draft status isn't the only way to grade development. Developing a lower 3* into a starter or major contributor is a big deal.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 7:16 PM
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The production speaks for itself in terms of development from some guys.
Ben Boulware won the Lambert award, but ran a 4.85 40 Tre Lamar was a 2 year starter, but ran a 4.91 40 Kendall Joseph was a 3 year starter, but ran a 5.05 40
You can't judge "NFL development" given that those numbers will never get you drafted. It shows how good Venables is given a lack of elite physical ability.
For comparison our drafted LBs ran Simmons - 4.39 O'Daniel - 4.61 Goodson - 4.69 Anthony - 4.56 Steward - 4.64
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: LB development
Feb 15, 2021, 9:23 PM
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You do know it’s about Jimmy’s and Joe’s and not X’s and O’s Right?
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Hall of Famer [22329]
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LOL, makes no sense to judge college "development" by their
Feb 16, 2021, 12:30 AM
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draft position... a lot of guys peak in college and are not NFL material. But I'm guessing you know that.
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110%er [5024]
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Re: LB development
Feb 16, 2021, 10:26 AM
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LB development should be the least of our worries...
The development of the OL and step back from the secondary is more alarming than anything.
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All-In [27185]
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Re: ^^^This
Feb 16, 2021, 11:11 AM
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.
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110%er [6394]
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Re: LB development
Feb 16, 2021, 7:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: LB development ] |
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All positions are improving, especially since recruiting has gotten much better.
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Legend [17786]
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How stupid can you be?***
Feb 16, 2021, 10:28 AM
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: LB development
Apr 1, 2021, 7:27 PM
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The typical sec teams have a bunch of LBs and other players they sign that are not even on the team after 1 or 2 years. They run them off so they can sign 25-26 each year and stay under 85 total. Compare how many LBs Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, LSU, etc go through compared to the number Clemson goes through, before you make any judgment about development.
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: LB development
Apr 1, 2021, 7:40 PM
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It got so bad they were signing 30-32 a year. It was reflecting so poorly on the conference the commish put a limit on number they could sign a couple years ago. I think it is 25-26 now.
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: LB development
Apr 1, 2021, 7:51 PM
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First the y reduced it to 28 per year and a few years later reduced it to 25 per year. Saban and others fought it both times. Saban really fought it when it went to 25. How many years has Clemson signed 25? These guys were signing in the 30s and culling them and signing more the next year. That is not development.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: LB development
Apr 1, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Well they have to be fast enough to play in the NFL. BV can't make them fast.
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