Re: Top 2 every 3-4 years? Dream on!

Disappointing that mountaineers didn’t not respond with specifics on how long would he give BB, but I appreciate your response and will answer as best I can.

Here is my thing - people make this about how many wins does BB need? Etc. I look at it differently. I think , how many wins does it take to be a successful program? I don’t pull for coaches - I pull for Clemson.

For ANY coach, my expectations would not change. They would be slightly modified - depending on number of years.

I want to challenge for the regular season and ACC championship. I am realistic (to start), that Clemson is not Duke or UNC. - so finishing in top 2 every 3-4 years in regular season would work for me.
I want to win the ACC tourney, be thought of as a dark horse, and have other teams not want to play us- even if we lose after the round we just lost to Miami in. Make the semis - every 3 years, finals every 4. And maybe win one more very 5-7.
I want to plan to go to the dance at least 50%. And the ones we miss, be disappointed we missed and complain we were robbed.
I want to go into the dance as a scary team who might just knock off higher seeds. And who knows, shock the world by making a final 8 or 4. Right now, it is beyond my dreams to win the natty.

It seems we keep making excuses or setting minimal goals for CBB to keep the job. Why? I want to win because we are Clemson, not for CBB . Yes, they coexist, but after 10+, we have not really moved the needle.

Yes, this was a good year. Still possibilities. But, I judge an entire body of work, not the peaks and valleys. 10 years is a big body of work.

To your question of new coach. I would give him (or her) 3-5 years before the same expectations are made. We might drop back a bit, but sometimes that is needed. I would not lose sleep over dropping from 5th in conf to 8th, if we then started climbing again and to a higher ceiling. I do believe CBB is a good coach, but there are others out there as well, perhaps with a spark and drive that builds upon what he has done.

My question to mountaineer was how many years does he think it should take ?

glennjamin182®

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Mar 14, 2021, 5:43 PM

ClemsonME08 said:

Didn’t see these replies to my question earlier so a late response. To the first post I half agree that I want to see Clemson win in all sports but honestly I don’t think you can look at the full body pre facilities because we weren’t at a level playing field. Even in football we had to invest in facilities for us to take that next step. So looking at it in a post facilities improvement view is why I say I see improvement. I want to win the ACC but I think it will take time and a realistic goal is consecutive years with a day 1 bye and once that is the norm we should expect 2 day byes. Once you are in that top 4 seed consistently I think the expectation should be to win one. I think 50% dance is a little too low moving forward. I think we should expect to be in much more often like 80%. Hopefully we improve our seed and number of games we win each year. I hope over the next 5 years we are here complaining we only made it to sweet 16 what’s wrong with us like we do football for losing in a natty.

To the second reply this is why we need to raise our expectations. Winning the ACC shouldn’t be our goal next year but celebrating 1 win in chapel hill isn’t enough. This is why we can’t consistently win at a high level with low expectations. I personally think BB is the best person to get more but if he doesn’t meet raised expectations time to find someone who can.

This is a fair perspective.

However, regarding finding a new fit if we aren't meeting expectations, I'm on board with most people that say we need to turn Clemson into a destination spot instead of a stepping stone. Idk if we are at that point yet outside of how long BB has been here.

Before BB, seems like any successful coach took off at some point. BB could have bolted after the Sweet 16 but he didnt but if he did we may be having the conversation of...why can't we keep successful coaches? So to BBs credit, he appears to be trying to build a stable foundation here and make this a destination school.

I mean, are there any schools that have a similar situation as Clemson where they are a football school with a rural destination and have success in basketball? Maybe Florida comes close? Virginia Tech though they've fallen off as of late in football? Most high level bb recruits are from the city or at least attend a program where the Bball program IS the school's identify (Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc)

Believe me, I wanna see Clemson basketball be success similar to football...maybe we can get there soon. Hell, BB may be the Frank Howard of basketball here. I could imagine if TNET was around during Frank's tenure as I'm sure people would calling for his job often (he had 10 losing seasons, 5 of them before 9th year of coaching when he went 11-0 season in 1948).

Overall, I'm perplexed of just how to consider appropriate standards for different Clemson sports.

Football is the gold standard and baseball is a different kind of monster to deal with nowadays due to the scholarship situation.

Basketball...I'm thinking NCAA tournies 2-3x per 4 years. I think a senior led team should be super competitive and give us a chance at competing for conference titles and a potential deep NCAA run from time to time.

Looking back, OP had some swag with the team and got the name buzzing but never won a tourney game - I don't really hold his time here as golden as others do.

Rick Barnes was probably the closest we came to building something and....he left. I never got to watch his squads or know more about his team culture other than some comments I read on the board from time to time (too young during that period to keep up).

Maybe BBs peaked - maybe not. I get frustrated watching the team performance from time to time but that's basically any sport where we aren't playing well and because hey, I love Clemson athletics so I wanna be supportive and see the school do well.

So here's the best yet ahead and may the chips fall as they do ??

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We lost 2 games this year

Sounds like we haven't consistently lost to teams that...

Re: We lost 2 games this year

Re: We lost 2 games this year

I think they'll calm down once they see how far we make it..

Re: I think they'll calm down once they see how far we make it..

Re: I think they'll calm down once they see how far we make it..

Re: I think they'll calm down once they see how far we make it..

Re: I think they'll calm down once they see how far we make it..

Top 2 every 3-4 years? Dream on!