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Topic: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time
Replies: 54   Last Post: Apr 13, 2021, 2:32 PM by: FutureDoc
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I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 7:58 AM
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But what other evidence do you guys need?

Trapp... a 4 year guy who is a starter left.
Newman??

Over the last several years guys leave at alarming rates.

Thumbs down this I don’t care, but brownell is a loser and so is his puppet on here defending him no matter what.

Wake up.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[3]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 8:07 AM
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I think he has been ok, but these transfers are alarming. if Trapp was going to transfer, Newman would have started and he left also? and the recruit who got out of his letter was the same position.
O-Max was a big loss also and would have started at the 3 or 4.
We are not getting any of the top transfers at these positions in that they have selected other options. What his going on?

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You are whipping

[1]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 12:01 PM
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A dead horse Super Fan and Supporter of Clemson. Brownell IS NOT leaving !

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 11, 2021, 9:22 AM
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What’s going on here is the same thing that’s going on most everywhere. NCAA opened the door for transfers to play immediately and it will be this way till they change it.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 12, 2021, 10:27 AM
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Then why don’t we get some good transfers coming our way ?

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 8:35 AM
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I agree 100 percent!

Judge Keller is either his asst or wife! No way you can defend Brownell!!

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[1]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 6:11 PM
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JK Is Brownell, there’s no other explanation

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 12, 2021, 8:18 PM
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I said that a couple months ago. Personally, I have never seen Brad and Judge at the same time.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 12, 2021, 10:36 AM
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JK is DRAD Did you not know that How else you think Brad is still here

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 8:56 AM
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What do you see in the history of our basketball program to believe that a new coach could recruit better? Sure there are issues in the program but some of it is just who we are. There is a huge difference in taking a Saturday and spending the day in Clemson for a football game than for coming for a 9:00 Wednesday night basketball game. Even before COVID, the arena was almost never full and even the students did not go to games. There is no history of any championships and unless a 4 or 5 star kid grew up a fan, there are 50 other schools they could go to and that is not the case with football. Change doe not equal success.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time***


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:13 AM
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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[1]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:14 AM
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Valley Boy said:

What do you see in the history of our basketball program to believe that a new coach could recruit better? Sure there are issues in the program but some of it is just who we are. There is a huge difference in taking a Saturday and spending the day in Clemson for a football game than for coming for a 9:00 Wednesday night basketball game. Even before COVID, the arena was almost never full and even the students did not go to games. There is no history of any championships and unless a 4 or 5 star kid grew up a fan, there are 50 other schools they could go to and that is not the case with football. Change doe not equal success.


you are never going to know until you try one of these years. my thinking we could be so bad next season that will be the year.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 1:51 PM
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There were some pretty good crowds in the 80s.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 5:38 PM
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When I attended from '79 to '84, there were multiple sellouts each year. Folks really showed up to watch Spanarkel, Gminski, Worthy, Perkins, Jordan, Bias, etc. The ball was a much higher level. The ACC was the unquestioned top conference in the country year after year. And players stayed in college 3-4 years. Brownell's attendance numbers are way down compared to even Shyatt despite many more alums and more students. Draw your own conclusions.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:20 AM
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Recruit better? If you are saying start bringing in 4 and 5 star players - I don’t see that happening (other than the occasional legacy pickup). I think it is much more basic than that. You can build a program with 2 and 3 star players if you keep them together, develop them, have roles clearly defined for them, play an exciting brand of basketball - where players want to come.
Gonzaga, Butler, and many more were not built with 5,4 stars to begin. They developed the players. They recruited good players who bought in. Dabo did and does the same. Now,yes, he gets great players - but he also looks for his kind of players. Players that are willing to work, be coached, and contribute. When you recruit uncommitted to the program players, or don’t develop players, then they will leave.
People on this board try and say that we have same issues as everyone else. I don’t personally buy that. When a 4 year starter would rather play for Charlotte! When a good role player, probable starter or heavy contributor leaves, when a talented freshman who will probably be a starter leaves, when a committed recruit changes his mind. Any one, I could buy. Maybe even 2. But combine them and there are issues.
The non dukes, unc, Kentucky’s of the world must recruit better teammates and develop them. Get an inside game so that big men will come. Actually play the big men a few minutes a half to develop them.
After 11 years, where are we? It seems to me, we keep running on a treadmill.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 1:56 PM
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Baylor says hello. The guys spoke up about it afterwards too. Said they were a Brotherhood... And imho, it looked sincere too. Baylor hasn't recruited 5 star one and dones. I would sincerely look at their model and try to duplicate it.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 7:15 PM
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Baylor says hello. The guys spoke up about it afterwards too. Said they were a Brotherhood... And imho, it looked sincere too. Baylor hasn't recruited 5 star one and dones. I would sincerely look at their model and try to duplicate it.



Yes and Baylor stuck with their coach for years...

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Since 2007, Baylor has went to the NIT or NCAA tournament


Posted: Apr 11, 2021, 5:04 PM
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all but one year. Sounds like a good reason to stick with a coach to me.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[1]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:47 AM
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At this point, it's not just a matter of recruiting--retention has become a major issue.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 12, 2021, 10:30 AM
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I would say Dabo is a better recruiter than T Bowden The coach makes all the difference in recruiting This is the big weakness of Brad He is ok with the Xs and Os

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:33 AM
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You know, I remember having to get on tnet only through a clunky PC that was only available stationary. You had some ardent supporters of Thomas Bowden and how he had taken our program to new heights vs a West.... And how our program was doing it wrong, that recruits wouldn't go to a program with so much coach turnover, yada yada. Pointed toward his dad at Fla St for proof.

Here's my point, how nasty would it have gotten had that scenario played out in today's technology. Thank goodness it didn't. Our AD may have never made the call to bench Bowden in favor of Dabo. We may have never hired Purnell. Very few people had iPhones. The traffic to tnet was minimal.

I would venture to say many Tiger fans agree with you but it's ironic how so many remain quiet. They'd rather be popular with the tnet clic. I actually applaud Judge for taking a stance. As I applaud you for voicing your opinion.

Sports are changing with the portal. No denying that. However, one thing remains constant, with any coach, you have to have the Jimmy and Joes and you have to have a coach that knows how to get the most from those jimmy and Joes.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:34 AM
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I am now on board with firing Brad. I believe we need to at least try to do better. I understand the basketball history and other reasons why we can’t win, but now it seems the players that Brad has recruited do not like or love him enough to stay something is wrong. I know Brad will get enough transfers in for the next year and once again we will finish middle of the pack even though we were picked in the bottom three and Tiger fans will be satisfied, but not me.

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Brad lacks the charisma & leadership to run a multi million

[3]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 10:09 AM
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dollar organization consistently successfully.

After 11 years of this, we and recruits know what to expect and those expectations are driving people away from our program.

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Re: Brad lacks the charisma & leadership to run a multi million

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 6:19 PM
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I mean who wouldn’t want to play for a coach who plays a boring, grinding brand of basketball, is guaranteed not win the conference, and can’t even call a time out correctly

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 10:57 AM
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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 11:00 AM
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I can’t help but think negative post by you and others about Trapp , his coach and team have played into his decision to leave. Posters should realize the kids read this BS. It does not make the coaches job any easier for sure.

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I like BB well enough, but it is time to move on.***

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 11:01 AM
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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 11:12 AM
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No hubris here! "Leader of the movement" indeed.

Can you specify a time since Bobby Roberts was coach where Clemson has consistently performed high-level in recruiting. We've had some stars, but not a plethora of them at any one time. That's 50-plus years of BB history that's really hard to recruit against. (Go on back to Banks McFadden and the profile does not waver.)

Plus, historically, the Clemson area has not been seen as a great landing place for urban athletes that were pure BB players. Think back to Frank Mauldin for an example of how Clemson was trying to address that issue. Small town in the South, etc., etc., etc. And, while that may be changing somewhat, not really - especially this past year (think O-Max.)

As far as the transfer issue is concerned, it's not a Brownell issue, it's an NCAA issue. And while a kid with a different personality might find a like-minded soul on a football roster of 120 players, it's probably a challenge on a basketball roster of 15. If they don't find that connection and they've got someone in their ear, they hit the road.

One more thought: We've had coaches who were successful prior to their time at Clemson and/or successful following their time at Clemson who've struggled at Clemson. Check the records of Clemson BB coaches. That's empirical data, not fantasy. Clemson has been, and remains, a very difficult BB job.

Is there a magical coach out there who could morph Clemson from BB mediocrity into championship caliber. Of course, but why would they come to Clemson if they have a chance to go anywhere else.

Brownell is willing and eager to be Clemson. His program is improving (albeit incrementally) every year. From an administrative perspective, and given the limitations, you've got to go with the guy (or gal) who not only wants to be at Clemson, but is willing to stay DESPITE fanbase dissatisfaction, the meager recruiting profile, and the long-term prognosis. You'll take the longterm over the quick fix every time.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 11:36 AM
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Well said and spot on. In today's 3 point world, basketball is just different and it is hard to win year in and year out. I remember Bobby Roberts well and going to games in Fike and think the go big or go home mentality has hurt the university. How many millions has been spent on Littlejohn and how has that worked out in putting fans in seats? Tough job to be a basketball power at Clemson.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 11, 2021, 9:08 AM
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I remember a packed Fike Field house every night in the early 60's. I remember #1 Duke winning on a last second shot that was thrown up in desperation. In 1963 the three top freshman classes were UCLA ( With Kareem), Clemson and South Carolina. Clemson and South Carolina freshmen only lost one game - to each other at home. Yet South Carolina under McGuire only won the ACC once which led them to pull out. Clemson never did, and we all know about UCLA. McGuire's NYC pipeline ran out. Clemson only had one more Mahaffey to recruit and the next best freshman class was probably the first class Barnes brought in ( and his only good class).Basketball due to the AAU system is very crooked. Clemson while we think it is the greatest place in the world -and it is doesn't look that way to a big named recruit from the big cities who has his choice. I dare say you could have put one of the top coaches in the nation in Clemson and they would have had trouble. The NCAA rules have ruined basketball with the transfer portal and todays instant gratification kids. Even Duke didn't make the tourney maybe first time in my lifetime since they expanded the tourney. I don't know the answer, but these rules may well ruin football too.

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Clemson hasn't improved one iota in 11 years under

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 6:34 PM
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Brownell. That is a fact. In Purnell's last 3 years, we had a 67% winning percentage, and made the NCAA Tournament (1st round) each year. Brownell has never made the tournament 3 years in a row or put 3 years together as good as that. The basketball program, in terms of measureable results has not improved in any way under Brownell, and in fact, has gotten worse in every way. The desire to move in a different direction is in no way a reflection of Brownell the man, or of his character, but has everything to do with the facts - the cold hard numbers. To expect anything different after 11 years is to live in total denial - it's delusional. It's like the long suffering wife who thinks her hard drinking husband is finally going to settle down and stop running around and beating her because he's a "good man".

As for Clemson being a tough job for a basketball coach, the only real thing against us is our lack of tradition and terrible history; everything else is just a pile of excuses. I know that's not meaningless, and presents somewhat of a challenge, but it can be overcome. The right coach most certainly can breathe life into the program and sell it to recruits and fans alike (much like Dabo did in football). If we don't believe that, if we really believe that permanent, perpetual mediocrity (yes, 5th place is NOT reason to celebrate) is our fate, then we have literally given up on basketball. At least in years past, even with Foster and Ellis and Barnes and Purnell, I had the feeling we were trying. Now I feel like we are this close to tucking our tail and accepting defeat, and I never thought I'd see that in a major sport at Clemson.

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Re: Clemson hasn't improved one iota in 11 years under

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 8:32 PM
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Well said. 11 TU’s if I could.

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: Clemson hasn't improved one iota in 11 years under

[1]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 10:00 PM
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Beware, JK will TD you for his ??

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:50 PM
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Elden Campbell and Dale Davis say hello

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 11:12 AM
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My guess is that a comparison would show Clemson & Brownell about in the middle of transfers. The portal, another good idea mismanaged, has disrupted college sports and turned coaches into raiders. (Hubie Davis, after spending enormous capital and the "Carolina Family" experience, used his press conference to contradict that when he said he would be looking at the transfer portal for "good big men." In other words, you wanna play for Carolina, go into the portal.

But if you think Clemson is bad, consider UNC: at least six players have announced they are leaving. Davis won't have a team left by fall. (And from what I saw of Ol' Roy's press conference, the transfer portal was the major reason for his retirement.)

The portal was ovderdue, but it needs some tweaking to halt the chaos.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 12:11 PM
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There are not many good kids who want to come to a program where the offense is designed to score 50 or sometimes 60 points and the high scorer has 12 points. What fun is that?

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Class of ‘71. Went through “rat season” and glad I did.


Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 1:49 PM
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I can totally get on board with that. Not going to make news and highlights scoring 10 a game... Definitely not what the NBA is after. Nothing wrong with good defense but that offense of passing on the perimeter, others standing stationary until 12 seconds on shot clock is not very appealing to a high scoring shooter.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 6:25 PM
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Give the kids today some credit, they understand that it is all about points per possession and winning. This isn't the 70-80s era of "me ball". They understand defense wins, and team defense is best.

You only have but so many kids that can drop 30+ points consistently, heck a kid that can drop 20 consistently is going to be a great NBA talent. Honor is one of those types that can unload, but consistency is a challenge. You rather get a steady 12 points vs a occasional 25. Worse, normally those that can score are going elsewhere like UNC/Duke. Ol'Roy built the possession, high-tempo modern style, but guess what, it really struggles against slow & defensive (Bennett D). Building via defense (like BB or even OP) works. BB approach is smarter because he isn't gassing his players on D. He game is 'boring" to those that casually watch BB but dang, it is really smart. There are a lot of efficient players out there so you aint swinging for the fences for that 30 scorer "hoping" to get hot...or not.

Plus, talent has never truly snubbed slow style, otherwise Dean would have been a failure.

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Since everyone is leaving anyway. Now would be a great

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 12:17 PM
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Time but don't fire without a replacement in hand. Who will come to Clemson that could succeed. We missed the boat when Wofford coach went to VA text. Don't know if he would have e come either.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[2]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 1:46 PM
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Haven't you been paying attention for the last ten years...It's because better players are coming in..I've been laughing at that excuse for so long now, especially when I watch the following year and see the same old boring offense struggle to get to 50 points. Sure Brad is a good guy but his style of game is just so dull and boring to watch.

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I admit, Trapp leaving is a real head-scratcher, but in

[3]
Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 4:32 PM
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today's world of the transfer portal, guys like Newman and Prosper leaving are almost non-stories. It happens at every school; they are leaving for more PT, or at least where they believe they will get more PT. I can't use that against Brownell ... but I don't need that. Brownell has a long, consistent record of mediocrity, which I've detailed before; it's not "good", or "pretty good", it's flat out mediocre. Pumpers can make all of the excuses and rationalizations they want, but they just sound more and more foolish. So, if you want consistent mediocrity, with an occasional blip into "good", then Brownell is your guy. If you want better than that, it's past time to make a change. Barring something dramatic coming in from the portal, next year will be brutal.

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Who doesn't have players in the transfer portal?

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Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 4:40 PM
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Some of bozos act as if Clemson is the only place that has players entering the transfer portal. There are more than 1,000 players in the portal. This is the new face of college basketball. Coaches are going to have to constantly recruit their players. Clemson has a men's basketball coach. A #### good coach. So shut the #### up and go back to chasing football recruiting. Men's basketball is much better off when the "Clemson football fan" stays in his lane and worries about chasing football recruits.

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You would be better off leading...


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 4:46 PM
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A bowel movement. More your style.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 6:05 PM
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But what other evidence do you guys need?

Trapp... a 4 year guy who is a starter left.
Newman??

Over the last several years guys leave at alarming rates.

Thumbs down this I don’t care, but brownell is a loser and so is his puppet on here defending him no matter what.

Wake up.



Perhaps educate yourself. Players are transferring from every program at an alarming rate. Your trying to pin it on CBB only issue is telling

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 6:14 PM
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I am sure the only pick you have seen was watching Syracuse



I mean seriously, have you paid attention to college basketball in the past 10 years? About 40% of every all college basketball players transfer by the end of their Sophomore year.Next, are you going to start complaining about that new-fangled 3 point line?

And here we are complaining about a 4 year guys picking a different school for their freebee grad-year?

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You are in maybe 10% of Tiger fans


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:00 PM
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And 10% is probably a stretch.

It’s basketball, a sport most Tiger fans don’t pay any attention to until after the Natty (see attendance data).

Tiger Nation cares but not enough really when it comes down to it.

No one wants to sacrifice money from the Athletic dept or IPTAY to buy him out if it diverts resources away from football... the bread and butter.

I would bet vast majority would give the motion 1 meh out of 10 to buy him out. Won’t happen.

All you are doing is wasting energy.

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Re: You are in maybe 10% of Tiger fans


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 9:57 PM
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And 10% is probably a stretch.

It’s basketball, a sport most Tiger fans don’t pay any attention to until after the Natty (see attendance data).

Tiger Nation cares but not enough really when it comes down to it.

No one wants to sacrifice money from the Athletic dept or IPTAY to buy him out if it diverts resources away from football... the bread and butter.

I would bet vast majority would give the motion 1 meh out of 10 to buy him out. Won’t happen.

All you are doing is wasting energy.


lol. its pennies for everyone. the buyout is only $425k.

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Re: You are in maybe 10% of Tiger fans


Posted: Apr 10, 2021, 10:03 PM
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This is simply your opinion. I Communicate with a lot of Clemson fans, pretty much everybody my social group, and we all care about basketball. I don’t know which fans you’re talking about

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time

[1]
Posted: Apr 11, 2021, 7:12 AM
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Here’s what I don’t understand. We are fortunate to support a program that is probably the best example of how much a coach makes a difference. Yes, Clemson had a good to excellent football program for years prior to Dabo, but clearly it’s better than its ever been for one primary reason. The head coach. And yet so many want to say changing to a better coach won’t make a difference in basketball. I know, I know the excuses. Money, facilities, blah, blah, blah. 11 years and we’re so used to being middle of the pack that Judge and others crow about our 5th place finish and one and dones in ACC and NCAA tournaments as a “great “ year. If we want to be better, we need a better head coach as priority one.

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I think I have the answer to finally get Clemson


Posted: Apr 11, 2021, 12:53 PM
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Basketball over the hump;

Clemson should hire their next bball coach from Tnet. There seems to be a good number of folks in here who have the answers.

Speaking for myself, I am not a candidate. I know for a fact that I could not run the program or relate to today’s players, nor do I possess the capability of navigating a program through the idiocy of NCAA rules and portal calamity.

So, for the sake of all things holy do not put my name in the hat.

Thank you all so very much.

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Re: I’ve been leader of the fire brad brownell movement for a long time


Posted: Apr 11, 2021, 1:06 PM
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How noble of you to humbly step forward on TigerNet as a non-paying member to lead the movement.

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Frankly, he should have been fired after the 2014-15 season***

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Posted: Apr 12, 2021, 8:29 AM
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Re: Frankly, he should have been fired after the 2014-15 season***


Posted: Apr 12, 2021, 10:40 AM
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You mean the year after we were snubbed for the NCAA tournament when the committee reached down below us (20-12, 10-8) in the ACC standing to select NC State at 9-9, 21-13) that we beat just a week earlier?

Or the season just before the renovations to littlejohn where we were 8-10 in conference with nothing to show recruits? Surely not after the Greenville hiatus with three top 25 wins in a row.

The only time we have had a decent window for a justified release was early 2020 before conference play. The team was uninspired and playing poorly. Then somehow they beat three top 5 ranked teams, beat UNC (but also lost to bad teams). Then covid...

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I would have done it the year before, with KJ McDaniels, and


Posted: Apr 13, 2021, 11:26 AM
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the best he could do was a trip to the NIT.

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Re: I would have done it the year before, with KJ McDaniels, and


Posted: Apr 13, 2021, 2:32 PM
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That is the year we were snubbed for the NCAA tournament when the committee reached down below us (20-12, 10-8) in the ACC standing to select NC State at 9-9, 21-13) that we beat just a week earlier?

We were not even considered to be a bubble team as many thought we were safely in the tourney. They took a 19-13 Nebraska (with no post-season wins), a 20-13 Iowa (9-9 in conference), a 20-12 KState, 20-12 Stanford.

Firing Brad for that one would have made you out of your mind.

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