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Senior Writer [∞]
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Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 10:30 AM
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This is the time of year when everybody is excited and thinks their team will go undefeated, etc. But this team definitely has areas of concern. Here is a big one for me - when you watch the title game and that last drive, you see Watson (gone), Gallman (gone), Scott (gone), Williams (gone), Leggett (gone) and Guillermo (gone) being the vocal leaders out there. They had all spent three or four years together, and they had grown to that point. It kind of reminded me of a team that is senior and junior laden that makes a deep run in the NCAA Tournament. There was a lot of football that had led them to that point. So this season, when they need that huge catch, who makes it? Renfrow has done it against Alabama, but no one else has shown that consistency at wide receiver. Milan Richard? Unproven as are all of the tight ends. Vocal leader on the OL? They are searching for that. Who will make the big throw on third down with the clock running out? If Clemson is to get back to the playoff, they have a lot of talented kids that need to grow up in a hurry.
Just a point for discussion.
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All-In [40100]
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It will be a different team for sure. My biggest concern?
Jul 25, 2017, 10:32 AM
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Does our qb have the stuff to come in down 14-0 to the reigning cfb dynasty, get knocked down while spinning like a propeller blade, then get back up and lead our team to victory. I'll be more nervous than usual when we are down.
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Orange Blooded [3107]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 10:34 AM
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Your feathers are showing.....
Go Tigers!!!!
But seriously, I've been thinking the same thing. Talent is everywhere, but it usually takes time to gel. I believe for the first 4 games we could see 4 different teams on the Clemson side of the ball (on offense). Then again, teams have come out of the gate firing on all cylinders before. I'm hoping for the best.
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Orange Blooded [3107]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 10:34 AM
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Your feathers are showing.....
Go Tigers!!!!
But seriously, I've been thinking the same thing. Talent is everywhere, but it usually takes time to gel. I believe for the first 4 games we could see 4 different teams on the Clemson side of the ball (on offense). Then again, teams have come out of the gate firing on all cylinders before. I'm hoping for the best.
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Orange Blooded [3194]
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Idk***
Jul 25, 2017, 10:39 AM
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 10:41 AM
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Jeff Elliott said it best...
Jul 25, 2017, 10:41 AM
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if you wait to replace a player like Sammy Watkins until after he's gone, you're going to have problems. Our staff was ready to have all those boys leave, and they'll be ready to go come September.
May have been Tony Scott that said that, btw. I get them mixed up because they look alike.
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110%er [5912]
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No - Sam Elliot said it better
Jul 25, 2017, 11:02 AM
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Jeff Elliott said it best...
Jul 25, 2017, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to Jeff Elliott said it best... ] |
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Yep, we played a lot of guys last year. The media knocked us for it but it was necessary for depth late last year and early this year.
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All-TigerNet [13238]
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I thought it was Tony Scott that said that....
Jul 25, 2017, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Jeff Elliott said it best... ] |
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and he was talking about Sammy Hopkins.
Or was it DeAndre Watson....
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110%er [6403]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 10:47 AM
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Got to have faith in the coaches IMOP.
"The best is yet to come!"
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Oculus Spirit [82039]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 10:48 AM
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Are you saying we should forfeit the first two games and send the whole team to a men's retreat?
TIA
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All-In [36450]
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David, put your orange glasses back on and be "all-in"***
Jul 25, 2017, 10:50 AM
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Orange Blooded [2804]
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All valid concerns. For me, the QB play is going to be the
Jul 25, 2017, 11:03 AM
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make or break for the season. We have Deon/Ray Ray/Trevion returning at WR and talent abound. At RB Fuller came on really well towards the end of the year in my eyes and Feaster should be more confident. We replace Jay on the OLINE(which is a huge loss in experience, but supporting cast is there). If the QB can not turn the ball over and make some throws we have a chance. Our D should give us plenty of chances to win games. I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 11:07 AM
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Are you saying that we should have had back-ups in on that last drive to give them experience?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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We will miss Deshaun Watson, and I think a lot of people
Jul 25, 2017, 11:09 AM
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are underestimating just how much. I know we have recruited as well as anybody at QB, but think back over the last few years, about how many games DW won for us. There were quite a few close ones in which he took the team on his back and won games almost singlehandedly. We are in great shape at QB going forward, but that is going to be hard to replace right away.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: We will miss Deshaun Watson, and I think a lot of people
Jul 25, 2017, 11:21 AM
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As a note to add to that though, there were quite a few of those close ones that you could also attribute to interceptions from Deshaun (especially this past year)...simply look at the turnovers from the close games...then see if they were interceptions in Clemson territory that the opposing team then capitalized on: Troy (3), NC State (4), Louisville (5), Pitt (4), FSU (2). Many, that happened. So where he also was good at carrying the team on his back, several of those instances were self inflicted situations caused from his high turnovers the last 2 years.
The main point to look at in this is how many games in the future would you say still would have been that close if those interceptions were not there (with Deshaun)? If a new QB comes in, can manage the game and have very minimal turnovers, would you not think similar games could easily still be winnable??
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Sure - cutting down on turnovers always helps.
Jul 25, 2017, 11:58 AM
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At the same time, there were close games in which DW's play was critical, which weren't close because of his turnovers (like the national championship). He was a leader, who the whole team, particularly the WRs, trusted and believed in. It almost seemed as if he was better under pressure, when the game was on the line. Bryant, Johnson, Cooper, or some combination of those, may possess all of those qualities, but I don't expect it early on. We'll see.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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110%er [5287]
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Re: And you think a new QB with virtually no experience is going
Jul 25, 2017, 12:27 PM
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That depends on the QB....Deshaun's 9 out of 10 times was because he would try to fit the ball into tight windows or wouldn't read a defender. Pretty much, his came from trying to force some plays that he should have read the entire field more instead of locking in on a player and risking it...many analysts have discussed that very point. Not every QB will do that, and not every QB (new or not) locks in on players. We'll just have to wait and see how the starting QB plays.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: And you think a new QB with virtually no experience is going
Jul 25, 2017, 12:36 PM
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example of what I mean...forcing or not reading the proper coverages:
^If he had read renfrow, there wouldn't have been a pick, no one there to stop it. Locked on to Cain? instantly.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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That's great, but if we are getting less of the bad with
Jul 25, 2017, 12:43 PM
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a new QB that's hardly taken a meaningful snap, it probably means we are getting A LOT less of the good too, because the passing game will probably be much more conservative. How about some highlights of all the amazing plays that Watson made?
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Ed Zachary. Watson made some bad throws, but
Jul 25, 2017, 1:04 PM
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overall he was still the best QB in college football last year, and the best QB ever at Clemson. To your excellent point, he still made a lot of amazing plays, and while we may get some of that from the new crop of QBs, we certainly can't count on it and would be crazy to expect to have QB play that good again this year. Even though, ,keep in mind, Hunter Johnson was more highly rated coming out of HS than DW. 
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Orange Blooded [4965]
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HS QB ratings are meaningless... Look at the numbers...
Jul 25, 2017, 1:52 PM
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DW4 was a better runner, more accurate passer, had less turnovers, and played against tougher competition in HS.
My concern about Johnson has always been his accuracy. He had a 52.2% completion percentage his senior year and was careless with the ball (12 INTs). I didn't see any improvement in that area during the spring game (38.4% completion percentage) and 1 INT.
Until something changes in that area, my support is behind Kelly Bryant and Zerrick Cooper.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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So you think star ratings coming out of HS are meaningless
Jul 25, 2017, 3:25 PM
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but HS stats aren't?
My understanding is that Hunter Johnson didn't have much talent around him in HS. His accuracy was noted as a strength by scouts that saw him at the camps. Lets give him more than one spring game (right after he arrived on campus i might add) to show something.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: So you think star ratings coming out of HS are meaningless
Jul 25, 2017, 3:31 PM
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I personally say you shouldn't ever base on spring games...just a glorified scrimmages where the first string pieces aren't all together. Hard to get a read on anything there, as you aren't seeing the true lines, the true WR sets, etc to go with the QB's. You'd get a better read seeing each QB behind the rest of the 1's.
As far as Watson, I agree he was good. I personally think what will be missed the most is his calmness, his demeanor, the poise. That is the intangible that got him through most games the way he did....you an always find another good passer that can be elusive, you can even find one that can have better turnover margin (Tajh did honestly), but it's that intangible side that is hard to replace, or find.
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110%er [7114]
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And we only lost one of those games...
Jul 25, 2017, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: We will miss Deshaun Watson, and I think a lot of people ] |
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INT's aside, Deshaun won games for us. Take him OUT of any of those games that we won, and we probably lose.
You don't replace a guy like him. You have to rebuild, reframe your system. I trust that Dabo and staff will do that - but it's going to take some time. I don't expect a national championship this year... but I won't be shocked if we overachieve and make it back there anyway. We have the talent.
FT
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110%er [5287]
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I honestly don't see how
Jul 25, 2017, 11:13 AM
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you can say you don't see any other consistency in the WR slot beyond Renfrow, while ignoring a guy who had more yards, more TD's and a higher yd/reception than Renfrow the last 2 years (both years).
Deon Cain:
2016: 38 receptions, 724 yards, 19.1 yds per reception average, 9 TD's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH5yETKyQJ4
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: I honestly don't see how
Jul 25, 2017, 7:55 PM
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Other than ray ray, Cain is the most inconsistent wr we have. He had way too many drops and lapses in judgement last year. Sure he made some plays, but the biggest area of concern for him coming in to this year is his consistency.
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All-In [39020]
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Clearly a reloading year.
Jul 25, 2017, 11:21 AM
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Won't make the playoffs, won't have anything to be embarrassed about. We'll hold our own with everyone and come up short a couple of times. Might make the ACCCG depending on how the losses fall for a chance at a third straight title, but I don't expect the playoffs this year.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Clearly a reloading year.
Jul 25, 2017, 11:49 AM
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I do expect the playoffs.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Are you going to be upset at the coaches and the players
Jul 25, 2017, 12:20 PM
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if/when your expectation are not met?
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All-In [44042]
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Of course he will. LOL***
Jul 25, 2017, 8:58 PM
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CU Guru [1614]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 11:24 AM
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With the defense we'll have this year, we won't need any legendary final drives to win the game.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Realistically, our defense will only be a couple points
Jul 25, 2017, 12:27 PM
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better per game.. at most. The (opponent adjusted) difference between our #1 defense in 2014 and our very good 2016 defense was only 1.6 ppg. On the other hand, the difference between our slightly below average offense in 2014 and our elite offenses in 2015 and 2016 was about 14 points per game (also opponent adjusted).
It's virtually a given that we will lose more offensively than we gain defensively in 2017. That doesn't mean there's no way we can make the playoff or anything like that, but the likelihood of us fielding a team as good as the 2016 (or 2015) squad is minuscule.
A conference title and playoff appearance is still on the table, albeit a bit unlikely, but don't expect us to field a team that's capable of competing for a national title like we have the last two years.
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Hall of Famer [24763]
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If we make the playoffs, another championship can happen...***
Jul 25, 2017, 4:44 PM
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CU Guru [1476]
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The real question
Jul 25, 2017, 11:26 AM
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Is how ticked will the Finebaum's and National Media SEC lovers be when Clemson is lights out good and a CFP team again in 2017 due to Dabo's relentless committment to the process?
People focus on what left, but a great OLine and legendary DLine will literally allow you to push teams around and ultimately dominate all but the teams who have equal talent (FSU, and maybe Aub)
The naysayers are going to be miffed.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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My biggest concern comes from our defense
Jul 25, 2017, 11:28 AM
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I'm concerned our DL might kill someone. Big Dex might break that skinny little Lavar Jackson in half. That Bentley guy should hope and pray Wilkins doesn't get an open shot on him or it's lights out. If little frenchie down at FSU didn't add on about 50 lbs, he might want to sit their game in DV out or else it might be his last game.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Re: My biggest concern comes from our defense
Jul 25, 2017, 11:58 AM
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Re: My biggest concern comes from our defense
Jul 25, 2017, 12:00 PM
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Fun fact, he's a CU alum.
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Orange Blooded [3750]
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Re: My biggest concern comes from our defense
Jul 25, 2017, 7:43 PM
[ in reply to My biggest concern comes from our defense ] |
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Nice observation, GWP. Think about what it would be like if he got caught between a high/low sandwich tackle with Dex on one side and Christian on the other. Wouldn't wanna be that guy!+1
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 11:36 AM
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All very good and valid responses. The pressure that was on the team and DW4 last year was enormous. I think that dissipates this year. Thinking we'll see a different offense this year in the fact it'll be more ball control and minimize turnovers. We knew we could withstand a few mistakes last couple years and still blow most teams away. I really think we'll be more like Bama was last year. Dominate most opp and play some close games but capitalize on other teams mistakes with our D. Should take a lot of pressure off the offense, thus freeing them up to play loose and gel by year end. Maybe an early season slip but still think we can make the playoffs... Maybe even as a two loss team.
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CU Medallion [67817]
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Re: Concerns- My biggest concern
Jul 25, 2017, 11:43 AM
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is that I'm very concerned.
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Athletic Dir [898]
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What I saw at the ladies clinic
Jul 25, 2017, 11:47 AM
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What I saw at the ladies clinic was freshman who had been here about two weeks already acting and talking like part of the family. I saw the next wave of leaders speaking about being ready and anxious for an opportunity to show everyone. The mentality of the group (maybe 40 players in attendance) was All In, skilled and ready. #NotConcernedatAll
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Legend [17786]
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Leggett will be missed the most. Look back at last year
Jul 25, 2017, 11:48 AM
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whenever we needed a a final drive to win (Bama, FSU), or a big 3rd down conversion (any game), or we were driving before halftime and trying to score (GT, SCAR, NCSU) - notice who Deshaun Watson looked to. #16
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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or Renfro!***
Jul 25, 2017, 8:21 PM
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110%er [7114]
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Agreed. Aside from Deshaun...
Jul 26, 2017, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Leggett will be missed the most. Look back at last year ] |
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It was Leggett who made the crucial plays to get us there. His circus catch in the final drive against bama sealed it. That was the final nail in bama's coffin. That defense was gassed... they weren't going to stop anyone down on the goal line. The winning TD pass was like stealing candy from a baby.
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Oculus Spirit [80291]
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Cain is more than capable of making the big catch.
Jul 25, 2017, 11:50 AM
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He and renfrow are a good start.
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Walk-On [148]
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Yeah like we haven't thought of that.. Coot!!***
Jul 25, 2017, 11:51 AM
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 11:59 AM
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David I expect 11-1. 12-1 after we win the ACC.
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Commissioner [961]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 12:00 PM
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We have great players at all positions, two to four deep. Probably deeper than 2015 or 2016. I believe the 2017 team is composed of young men of character, intellegence, skill and drive. Our coaches will have the team prepared. The difference in the final record of the 2015, 6, and 7 teams has been and will be Lady Luck. Sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Legend [17914]
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Not an "over-believer" i see...
Jul 25, 2017, 12:09 PM
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hang on - it will be good!
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All-In [26331]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 12:18 PM
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****
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Legend [17626]
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#NextManUp
Jul 25, 2017, 12:18 PM
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It's hard to replace a leader like Deshaun, but for once I have little concern about a letdown. We're more deeply talented than all but 1 team on our schedule and that, with our lines on both sides of the ball, will carry us a long way.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 12:27 PM
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Who else has full proven squad at this point? Holes everywhere, imo. However, not many have what we have on D!
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Rock Defender [53]
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All fair concerns. The key 3 are...
Jul 25, 2017, 12:33 PM
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1) Watson - Once a generation intelligence and leader - forget his physical skills. Until any of our 5 four-star+ recruits (including TL next year) prove it on the field, they will not match Watson's production.
2) Gallman - ALWAYS fell forward and could be counted on for protecting Watson. Had intangibles to give Watson the time and ground game needed to make Deshaun even more dangerous.
3) Leggett - It took him years, but he learned to block well and although he dropped a key pass early in games, he could be counted on to make an amazing grab later on for redemption. My big reason for listing this as a key loss is watching Milan Richard whiff on TWO STRAIGHT key blocks against OSU... instead of a TD from the 4 yd line, we settle for a FG attempt back at the 20 yd line.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I'm not sure why Mike Williams is getting overlooked
Jul 25, 2017, 12:39 PM
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Sure we have a lot of talented WRs on the roster, but we don't have a guy like Mike Williams ready to step onto the field in 2017. He was absolutely elite at catching jump balls and back shoulder throws. Cain isn't that guy right now. Maybe somebody like Higgins can be that guy, but he certainly isn't ready to do that yet. Mike Williams was an experienced veteran who had a really good connection with Watson, and he was the type of WR that just makes a QBs job easier. Just throw it up to #7 if he's single covered..
I honestly think we will be fine at RB. Gallman was a good, tough back, but he was far from elite.
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Rock Defender [53]
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It's not about who was not elite...
Jul 25, 2017, 1:52 PM
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It's about the productivity and mistake-free games they played. I don't think Deion Cain has proven he can do what Mike Williams did, but he already came closer to the showing he can fill his shoes better than the QB, RB, or TE positions we have to backfill. He had great catches (and even better RAC performance than MW) in big games against teams like FSU, OSU, and Bama.
Gallman got us tough yards and in addition to great blocking, did NOT fumble the ball. Have not seen anything YET that compares from our current replacements (Fuller is the closest).... not saying they won't, but have yet to prove it.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: I'm not sure why Mike Williams is getting overlooked
Jul 25, 2017, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why Mike Williams is getting overlooked ] |
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We didn't have Mike Williams in 2015 when we went to the playoffs, won the playoff game, and went to the Natty and lost by only 5 but set National Championship records. Not that Mike Williams can be discarded, but Clemson has already proven they can make playoffs with him missing (now obviously that was with Deshaun, so QB play does matter...but don't forget Cain was missing in the 2015 playoffs and Natty as well). Cain, it's hard to really say "he hasn't proven he can fill MW shoes"...he played behind him, so we never actually saw both on the field at the same time...and he did make many big plays in major games. Stas I posted above: 2016: 38 receptions, 724 yards, 19.1 yds per reception average, 9 TD's. Not sure I can say a guy that has a 19.1 yd/catch average and 9 TD's while playing more sparingly behind a first round Mike Williams is not proving things.
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CU Guru [1271]
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I think this will be a very Exciting Season!
Jul 25, 2017, 12:38 PM
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The joy of the unknown and you step out in Faith! I have faith that our defense will carry
us for the first 3 or 4 games until we settle on a QB. I don't see us losing any more than 2 games at the most.....This is College football, this is Clemson Football and not USC football!
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Heisman Winner [140464]
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^ Loves the SEC Network.***
Jul 25, 2017, 1:53 PM
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Orange Blooded [2922]
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It is extremely difficult to do what we have done...
Jul 25, 2017, 2:20 PM
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the past 2 seasons.
It would be 'normal' to end up with 2 or 3 losses this season. The sky wouldn't be falling, it's just part of the ebb and flow of things.
However, the question is 'are we normal?' Or have we become something more?
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Orange Blooded [3521]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 2:31 PM
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Tajh who?
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 4:04 PM
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College football is and always has been a game of concerns. Teams lose talent every year and fans wonder who will fill the void. Sometimes the returning talent fills that void and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the coaches make adjustments to fit the returning talent. Watson was an excellent QB but if he did not have a good OL to protect him and give him time to throw, he would have had much less success. We have to look at all the parts to determine how it affects the whole. A good OL will make an average QB look better and I believe our 2017 OL is the key to how good our QB and RBs play. From where I sit, I believe overall, we will see a more balanced offense and contributions from personnel and positions that will surprise many of us.
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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I seem to recall a certain edition of our team.....
Jul 25, 2017, 4:10 PM
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that we wondered at the time going into the season how in the world would they have a successful season playing Auburn, FSU, and at Virginia tech back to back to back? Turns out a team with Tajh, Andre, Sammy, Nuk, Dwayne, and Jaron turned out just fine. We'll be fine.
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CU Medallion [53773]
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Come'on Pard. By the time they get to that 15th game, they
Jul 25, 2017, 4:27 PM
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will have grown up. Now, if you want to ask who the leaders will be versus Auburn....go ahead. I'm with ya on that 2nd week.
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110%er [9889]
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We worry about replacing those players
Jul 25, 2017, 8:36 PM
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Other schools wish they had that quality of player to begin with.
Concerned? Heck yea...always.
But I take our roster against anybody...and we can do it again if the pieces fall together and you get a break or two.
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Commissioner [961]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 25, 2017, 8:41 PM
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The last game against Oklahoma Sooners shows what Clemson can do with good defense while running instead of passing in a tempo offense. 2017 team may be avery balanced, skewed to run offense. If the defense gives us the ball, we will tempo 85-100 plays per game, it will be a great season.
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Hall of Famer [24763]
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Grow a set... Nads are showin'....***
Jul 25, 2017, 10:10 PM
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null
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
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Legend [17774]
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In the corporate would we call them "challenges"
Jul 25, 2017, 10:17 PM
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It makes is feel better. For example, we never have layoffs, only RIFs (reductions in force).
Very salient points Mr. Hood. These are true challenges and I look forward to the season and your coverage.
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Athletic Dir [878]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 26, 2017, 8:39 AM
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Alabama does this EVERY year. I imagine when Jalen Hurd started the last season there were "CONCERNS" We will be alright, i think
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110%er [7987]
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Re: Concerns
Jul 26, 2017, 10:20 AM
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Look at FSU last year as a model for what can happen with an inexperienced QB. Time will tell...
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