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Rock Defender [53]
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And they called us "geniuses"...
Feb 9, 2016, 8:36 AM
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well, maybe they were right in their sarcastic minds. "Geniuses" - no - I don't think we are quite that smart, but holy-moly, it does NOT take a "genius" to realize how bad our BBall program is. Surely if you have ever played the game, even a little in the backyard or something, then you could see this. But to call us those sarcastic names just to make your ORANGE Koolaid taste better for our BBall program is somewhat close to idiotic. If you can't see it, then maybe it's time you just choose NOT to say anything, 'cause it's just making you look - well - like that "genius" that you called the rest of us that actually have a clue.
Good luck with CBB and his band of merry men that should maybe try a different sport than BBall. It won't get any prettier anytime soon. Too bad our AD is also one of those "geniuses".
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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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What were you saying at the beginning of this season?
Feb 9, 2016, 8:38 AM
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Did the team's sudden success change your paradigm that we were good and then depress you now to make this extremely bitchy and whiny post?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I don't know about the OP, but I know before the season I
Feb 9, 2016, 8:44 AM
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was pretty negative about Brownell, and even more-so when he was fumbling through the non-conference schedule losing to anyone with a pulse. That streak got my hopes up and I was ready to admit I was wrong. But now it's starting to look like I was right, unfortunately.
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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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Similar, but even being negative before the season
Feb 9, 2016, 8:50 AM
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we knew this season was a throwaway and his first season back at a renovated John is his last season unless if he gets us to the tourney.
It's amazing how our January shifted the paradigm of many.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I still don't understand this notion that we have to wait
Feb 9, 2016, 8:53 AM
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and give Brownell another season just because the team had to play in Greenville all year and he should get to enjoy the renovations for at least one season. If D-Rad doesn't think CBB is the best coach available to get Clemson into the tournament and make a run in said tournament, then why wait?
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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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I think he's shown progress this year and with the
Feb 9, 2016, 8:55 AM
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incoming recruiting class is trending the right way.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I think he's shown progress this year and with the
Feb 9, 2016, 9:14 AM
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We have one 3* commit for 2016. Are you referring to transfers?
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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The jury is still out on whether we have progressed.
Feb 9, 2016, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to I think he's shown progress this year and with the ] |
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We regressed in the first half of the season and then picked it up for 4 games, then took two steps back.
These last 6 games and the ACC tournament will tell us if we have, in fact, progressed.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Similar, but even being negative before the season
Feb 9, 2016, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to Similar, but even being negative before the season ] |
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Why did this season have to be a throwaway? If we were expected to be top 10 I could see arguing that playing away from home might be an impediment. But he has done nothing the previous four years- playing in Greenville is not the constant, the results are. We have also managed to completely lose any inroads in SC recruiting at what might be the best time for SC high school basketball in twenty years.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: I don't know about the OP, but I know before the season I
Nov 14, 2018, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to I don't know about the OP, but I know before the season I ] |
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That's kind of what happens when you play against those team that has thrown in everything to compete in basketball for years and pick up some of the better HS players in their recruiting area. Clemson basketball is stuck in the backyard of tobacco road where those schools chose basketball as their sport of choice, and Clemson chose FB. But, I truly believe that if Clemson's bb program could start attracting the same talent that tobacco road, ND, and the likes of get at their schools year after year, BB could have a winning basketball program. But I bet those basketball schools say the same about our FB program and the type of talent that comes to play FB at Clemson. With Clemson I do have my rathers, I would rather have a better FB program than basketball program any day, and we have that. Maybe the rebuilt Littlejohn will help with attracting better bb talent, and if it does good, if it don't, oh well. But as it stands, we have a A$S kicking FB team/program, and I'm more than OK with that. Gooooo Tiger Football!!!!
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Location and recruiting should not be a crutch for Clemson
Feb 9, 2016, 9:52 AM
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South Carolina is building a program. Would you say they're ahead of us right now, trailing us, or about the same?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Oculus Spirit [81897]
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Case in point***
Feb 9, 2016, 8:51 AM
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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We are who we thought we were. Somewhere between the peaks
Feb 9, 2016, 8:56 AM
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and valleys is an inconsistent team. CBB should get the benefit of the doubt of another year in the John, but after that, not sure what excuses can be used.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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He's already been give more than the benefit of the doubt...
Feb 9, 2016, 9:00 AM
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but you're right, the administration will not even consider let alone make an actual change until after the 2016-17 season.
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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Re: He's already been give more than the benefit of the doubt...
Feb 9, 2016, 9:06 AM
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Finance, not emotion will decide his fate in 17. I'm disappointed but, why waste money and seem impulsive? I know we are on the same wavelength BigCU. Seems like we are in between the pitchforks and loyalists. Lol.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: He's already been give more than the benefit of the doubt...
Feb 9, 2016, 9:09 AM
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Because coupling the opening of a new arena with the excitement of a new coaching hire - the promise of a new era of Clemson basketball sells season tickets. Opening with same old, same old excites no one and squanders one of the biggest reasons to renovate a facility - sell tickets.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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^^^This***
Feb 9, 2016, 9:11 AM
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Legend [17289]
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Maybe - contingent upon that coaching hire to make ...
Feb 9, 2016, 9:29 AM
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yes - it would absolutely be contingent on making a big hire. Clemson has some money coming in right now. Strike while the iron is hot.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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The Athletic Director is ABSOLUTELY NOT....
Feb 9, 2016, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: He's already been give more than the benefit of the doubt... ] |
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going to fire Brownell following a season where all of the home games were played at a venue nearly forty minutes from campus. Such an action would not be well-received by members of the coaching community.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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This man "gets it". Seems so simple.***
Feb 9, 2016, 9:53 AM
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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That concept is over stated.
Feb 9, 2016, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to The Athletic Director is ABSOLUTELY NOT.... ] |
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Coaches aren't going to turn down a nice contract because some other guy couldn't get it done in 6 years. I see no evidence that they have or would.
If you pay them, they'll take it.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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When DRad negotiated BB's contract extension....
Feb 9, 2016, 10:05 AM
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that included a hefty $5 million buyout that decreases to $3.5 million after this season, and to $3 million after next season, it became abundantly clear that he had no intention of making a change any time in the foreseeable future.
That's a hefty buyout for a coach that has only experienced modest success during his Clemson tenure and effectively binds Clemson to Brownell IMO for the majority of his six-year deal . Things would have to go terribly wrong for the AD to either pony up the cash necessary to oust Brownell or find a group of donors willing to fund his departure themselves.
Frankly, this lengthy extension and over-inflated buyout was a terribly short-sighted move by DRad IMO. DRad was under absolutely no pressure to make such a long-term commitment and no other programs were pursuing Brownell.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: When DRad negotiated BB's contract extension....
Feb 9, 2016, 10:09 AM
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his remaining salary beginning in 2016-17 is $7.4 million dollars. Buying that out for $3.5 million is not a bad contract. And we only save .5 million by delaying. Financially, unless you truly believe he is going to turn things around there is no reason not to make the move.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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I'm simply saying....
Feb 9, 2016, 10:14 AM
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the reason DRad agreed to such a large buyout when he was under absolutely no pressure to do so was because he had no intention of ever paying it. I firmly believe we will have Brownell at least through the end of the 2016-17 season. Just my.02 cents.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: I'm simply saying....
Feb 9, 2016, 10:32 AM
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It's not a large buyout. Its less than 50% of the face value of the contract. It was extending the contract at all that was questionable.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Interesting analysis of the Brownell Contract and buyout
Feb 9, 2016, 10:41 AM
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I'm pretty strongly anti-D Rad and I don't think it was that bad of a deal. Once the decision to renovate Littlejohn was made (and an adminstrative level decision was known before pimping it to us) they were between a rock and a hard place with Brad. His contract was at a point it had to be addressed. And under no circumstances would you want to bring a new coach in before the new venue opens. The buyout is significant but not crippling and certainly well below market - which is part of the problem in the first place. The average salary of a Power 5 coach in the NCAA tourney last year was $2.7 million.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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If you are arguing that DRAD made it clear he won't fire him
Feb 9, 2016, 10:16 AM
[ in reply to When DRad negotiated BB's contract extension.... ] |
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I would agree. The signing of so many transfers over the last two years instead of recruiting talent that could help the team last year and this year spoke volumes that DRad had communicated to Brownell not to worry about these two years. As a Clemson fan, I hate that.
If you are arguing that we CAN'T fire him no matter what he does BECAUSE it will prevent other coaches from taking the job, I don't agree at all. It would be a very attractive job.
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CU Medallion [64590]
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I'm not saying....
Feb 9, 2016, 10:31 AM
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we can't or won't fire him no matter what he does because it will prevent other coaches from taking the job. I'm simply saying that firing a coach at the end of a season spent playing all home games at an arena 40 minutes from campus may not be well-received and viewed as somewhat unfair by the coaching community.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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I disagree. That situation will not adversely affect our
Feb 9, 2016, 10:35 AM
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ability to hire a coach. In the coaching world, as in much of life, one man's misfortune is another man's opportunity.
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Legend [16908]
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CU Medallion [64590]
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Shyatt didn't have a $3.5 million buyout.***
Nov 14, 2018, 10:59 AM
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Shyatt didn't have a $3.5 million buyout.***
Feb 9, 2016, 10:12 AM
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see above. That's just inflation. Brad Brownell is not highly compensated by Power 5 basketball standards.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Unlike Swinney's contract, he won't be paid the remainder of
Feb 9, 2016, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Shyatt didn't have a $3.5 million buyout.*** ] |
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his contract, just the buyout, which never drops below $3 million. Plus, his salary goes up every year by $100,000. Therefore, we would only save, at most $400,000 by waiting. That's a fairly insignificant amount that probably won't enter into the decision making process.
Unless they plan to keep him on all the way through 2020, there is no real benefit to waiting if the AD concludes he won't get it done.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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We had that problem in baseball. So many on tnet said by
Feb 9, 2016, 10:09 AM
[ in reply to The Athletic Director is ABSOLUTELY NOT.... ] |
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firing a HOF coach, nobody would want to come in and take over this program. That proved true and we got stuck with Monte Lee. Oh wait...
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Legend [16908]
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Re: We had that problem in baseball. So many on tnet said by
Feb 9, 2016, 10:36 AM
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Who would the Monte Lee equivalent be in basketball? Not sure it would have the same upside possibilities.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Idk, maybe Kevin Keatts, Bryce Drew (although he coaches
Feb 9, 2016, 10:51 AM
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at his alma mater so I don't know if he's willing to leave), and Matt McCall.
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: He's already been give more than the benefit of the doubt...
Feb 9, 2016, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: He's already been give more than the benefit of the doubt... ] |
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Clemson Basketball History, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Clemson_Tigers_men%27s_basketball_seasons
Bill Foster, Rick Barnes, what's all the fuss about. How many bb coaches do we/Clemson have to hire to be a regular first round loser in the NCAA tournament. We're on #23 as of now, and I don't see our administration paying 2, 3, 4 million bucks for a basketball coach that can get us to the sweet 16 or elite 8 every now and again and probably never winning the championship against teams that have as much money and more invested into their bb program as we have in FB.
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CU Guru [1404]
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110%er [5121]
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Personally, I'll wait until March to make any judgements
Feb 9, 2016, 8:55 AM
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on this team. I've played/coached enough bball that I know to not rush to judgement. There's still a chance to make the dance, and if we do, I'll call the season somewhat of a success. If not, well...
Genius.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Personally, I'll wait until March to make any judgements
Feb 9, 2016, 11:21 AM
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Hello, Eeyore.
Make the NCAA = somewhat a success ?????
First what was Clemson's preseason rankings and forecast.
It was not middle of ACC or Make NCAAs.
What is Clemson's history of being able to make the NCAAs?
It ain't 50/50 that is for sure. It is way below average for the Clemson program for last 30 years.
If Clemson finished above .500 in conference play, finishes 6th or higher in ACC standings, wins one or more games in ACC tournament and makes the NCAA tourney...
Then it will have been a very successful season for Clemson basketball historically and currently. One that far exceeded preseason and inseason expectations.
Somewhat a success?
Clemson fans see with glasses colored by football program success. In basketball, we are the Wake Forest of football. We show signs of success occasionally but nothing sustained and consistent in terms of playing and competing with the big boys. Does not have to be that way, but it is what it is. Switching coaches may solve it all. But it hasn't yet over 40 years. We have had 6 coaches since 1975. Averages out to almost 7 years per coach. Barnes was 4 and Shyatt 5.
Coach BB started 2010, so he is coming close to the itch of Clemson change.
Personally I would rather see a coach stay longer and build some sustained success. Clemson BB seems poised to be trending upward. Next two years are critical for both Coach BB and Clemson program.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Personally, I'll wait until March to make any judgements
Feb 9, 2016, 11:23 AM
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Correction.. Meant to say what is history of Clemson making NCAAs over the history of program. It is unfair to pick and choose pre 64 teams. But as a whole Clemson has not onnaverage made the NCAAs. It is not routine.
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