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YOUR BALANCE
Even if our secondary is average
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Even if our secondary is average


Feb 6, 2016, 8:30 AM

It will still preform at an elite level because of the front 7 we have. Mullen is going to be great along with the other DB'S we picked up but I don't see any of them coming in with their limited experience and/or size and lock down the secondary.

The good news is that our front will make things significantly easier for them to do their job while gaining experience.

Can't wait!

It's it football season yet????

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Re: Even if our secondary is average


Feb 6, 2016, 8:32 AM

Its always college football season in Alabama, not sure about up in your neck of the woods

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Re: Even if our secondary is average


Feb 6, 2016, 8:43 AM

Most tiger fans are football all year. I'm one of them, I live for recruiting, spring ball and the season. Football is all that matters. I don't have the emotional attachment to other sports.
GO TIGERS !!!

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Re: Even if our secondary is average


Feb 6, 2016, 8:52 AM

Then we speak the same language although I must admit I enjoyed basketball as much as football, and that was the sport I played

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Re: Even if our secondary is average


Feb 6, 2016, 9:03 AM [ in reply to Re: Even if our secondary is average ]

Yep, obviously my comment was not that we have taken the time off from being a fan. ...but that the season opener isn't here yet.

Smh

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I just hammer through basketball


Feb 6, 2016, 6:12 PM [ in reply to Re: Even if our secondary is average ]

then pay attention to baseball. and follow some football stories during baseball. I just think most of the CFB writers are grasping at straws during the offseason with some of the stories they write.

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Re: Even if our secondary is average


Feb 6, 2016, 10:02 AM [ in reply to Re: Even if our secondary is average ]

It cracks me up that an Alabama fan sticks around the board this long after the game. You must have some orange in you somewhere

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BB is our invited guest and is welcome at all times...


Feb 6, 2016, 5:41 PM

We have our favorites.

Not sure if he and Confessed Coot have met yet - figure that would be a good conversation....

But what we all would like is for BB and ColdGinDawg to have pleasantries for TNET entertainment.

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I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 8:32 AM

That would put us around the 60th best secondary. At worst, with the talent we have filling in, it'll be a top 25 secondary.

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 8:34 AM

I don't think it will be average. ...the point is that even if average (considering talent and experience) it will perform better because of the front 7

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I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone


Feb 6, 2016, 8:42 AM

Jadar has a ton of experience and is a senior stepping in. Baker and Carter have a ton of experience. Mullen, Wallace and Fields have unlimited talent. Van Smith gained some experience last year and he is talented. Wiggins has experience and talent and might play safety. Then Tank should be one of the better corners in the ACC this year. I fully expect our secondary to be deeper this year than last. Possibly even better...

Tank this year > Tank last year.
Jadar this year > TJ last year.
Wiggins this year ~= Jayron (maybe slightly worse, but Jayron underperformed in the last few games).
Then whoever steps in for Mac will have a tough task, but like you said, our DL could make me seem like an elite corner. Haha

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone


Feb 6, 2016, 9:01 AM

Do you read? I said "even IF our secondary is average"

I am not suggesting they in fact ARE .....

Geez

The point is our front is AWESOME!

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Our front is not awesome yet. Lots of young talented guys that need to prove it.


Feb 6, 2016, 1:45 PM

They might become awesome next year, but its also possible they are a year away. It took Anthony and Steward 2-3 years to really shine at LB.

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Re: Our front is not awesome yet. Lots of young talented guys that need to prove it.


Feb 6, 2016, 1:51 PM

We are anchored by Wilkins, Pagano, Bryant and have ben, Jalen, O'Daniel at LB

We have experience PLUS a huge bump inthe quality of depth of talent at LB.

Dex will be this year what Wilkins was last year....or close to it.

Our front is going to be ridiculously good!

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Don't think Dex and Wilkins are gonna pressure QB alot though. We need


Feb 6, 2016, 1:55 PM

that from our DEs and only time will tell if we can get it. I like our front 7 up the middle but if we don't get good production out of DEs we will have to blitz a ton - and we already blitzed alot last year with Shaq and Dodd.

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Re: Don't think Dex and Wilkins are gonna pressure QB alot though. We need


Feb 6, 2016, 2:17 PM

I think it will be impossible for teams to run up the middle on us. Our DL will consistently reestablish the LOS at the snap. I agree that we will not have a top 10 NFL draft pick rushing off the edge (yet) but I think Bryant, RY, and CF, will be able to take advantage of the one dimensional position we will put other teams in.

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Don't see anything different between next season vs last.


Feb 6, 2016, 9:26 PM [ in reply to Our front is not awesome yet. Lots of young talented guys that need to prove it. ]

Lawson and Dodd weren't starters two years ago. If anything, the level of talents is upgraded. Bryant will be at least as awesome as Lawson. (Consider comparisons month-by-month into the season.) At least one of Ferrell, Yeargin, Register and Kelly will emerge as another elite. DTs are in the next level now.

I'm not worried about having anything to prove. I feel better about defense, especially d-line, than I felt this time last year.

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Re: I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone


Feb 6, 2016, 9:08 AM [ in reply to I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone ]

Excellent points.

Baker played well when Alexander came out. He made the play in the FSU game that started the tide turning in our favor. Edmonds, Fields and Smith are year further along. Also, Tanner Muse will be playing(Redshirt). He is fast and big. He has had a year to learn the system at safety. Isaiah Simmons has the size and speed to help at safety coming in this class.

No we don't have a lock down corner, but we do have the talent to have a lock down defense. This is where Venables and the rest of the defense staff excel. Lots of talent with low expectations.

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Re: I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone


Feb 6, 2016, 12:54 PM

I agree. ...which is why the exodus that we experienced in it secondary doesn't bother me. I do think Baker showed he still has this to work on as did smith. The ability is there. ..just need experience.

Our front will be so dominant it wont put a ton of pressure on our DB'S so they will be able to gain further experience with a lot of support.

I'm not devaluing our secondary. .... my point is that our front will protect any POTENTIAL weaknesses they might have as we grow them up.

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Baker is good in coverage, but if teams scout him much they


Feb 6, 2016, 5:13 PM [ in reply to Re: I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone ]

will try to attack him on the edge. He can't tackle - mostly because he weighs 175.

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Re: I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone


Feb 6, 2016, 2:23 PM [ in reply to I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone ]

Don't forget about Tanner Muse. He's got star written all over him also. His HS highlight film was amazing and according to Mickey Plyler, the coaches said he's been a stud through his RS year also. He's huge he hits like a truck and he can run.

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Re: I think you underestimate the No Fly Zone


Feb 6, 2016, 4:39 PM

I'm very excited about what he can bring. It just seems we always hear about one or two players from the staff building up someone we haven't seen yet on the field. ....and then ..... we don't really see them on the field. I hope Muse isn't that guy this time. I really like what I see and the potential impact he could have.

Ready to see who can handle live bullets.

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Just to add onto this...


Feb 6, 2016, 8:45 AM [ in reply to Re: I doubt it'll be average ]

We also have to replace 4 guys in the front 7. 2 DEs and 2 LBs. That is no easy task and there's no guarantee the replacements make the front 7 dominate. I do agree that 3/7 pieces will be dominant players. But who knows if Dorian, Wiggins, Smith, Williams, Shaq or Lamar can step in and fill the shoes for 2 really good backers in BJ and Blanks. And with the DE spot, I'm solid on Bryant, but the other spot is literally wide open and nobody proved last year they can be the next man up.

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: Just to add onto this...


Feb 6, 2016, 9:19 AM

I see Lamar starting with Shaq rotating in early at LB. for the DE spot you say is Wide open, I have a good feeling we see Yeargin there in a hybrid Vic roll. Rushing QB and drop back as a 4th LB to confuse the QB and help our young LBs out because let's face it, Wilkins and Big Dex can probably still get pressure by themselves, so we have that luxury :)

Will we be as good as last year on D? Maybe not, but our Offense will be better and I feel confident we can win shoot outs if needed. It's great to be a tiger! The 2017 recruits will see this too. Clemson is here!

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 10:00 AM [ in reply to Re: I doubt it'll be average ]

No, the point is you used the word "average" to describe our secondary. It's insulting, presumptive, and kind of fn rude if you ask me. We are flooded with 4-star talent and depth for the first time in years; find a more suitable adjective than "average".

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 12:56 PM

Dude. .. please read again. I said "even if" I didn't say they were. Grow a set.

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 4:51 PM

"Even if our secondary is average" is what you said...

Grow a set? "Even if" is implying that's a true statement, one you've accepted. It's the same as saying they ARE average. If you said "even if some other people think our secondary is average" as your lead-in, that argument would make more sense. Who said our secondary is average? I haven't heard that. Not once. In fact, I have a feeling a lot of people are going to be surprised this fall and actually have more confidence in this defense now than I did in last year's defense this time last February. Sure, we had a lockdown corner in Mack but no one even threw to him, they threw to Tankersly. Not only did he excel, but he's returning and will empower and lead all these other young men to do great things. We got killed in the slot a lot last year due to lost legs and blown assignments, especially in the flat. This year we have two 5-star linebackers in the rotation and a 230lb safety that runs a 4.45 40 in the mix. Why do I feel like I'm the only one excited about this secondary? We just reloaded with a banana clip and people are still doubtful about the ammo? I don't see it. Quarterbacks are going to be running for their lives this entire season, no throws will come easy. I'm calling top 10 defense by week 4.

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 4:53 PM

Smh

I can't fix stupid.

I didn't stutter.

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 4:57 PM [ in reply to Re: I doubt it'll be average ]

You need to read through the thread. ... the point was to say our front will be so good it wouldn't matter if our secondary was average because our front will make them better.

My heading was to entice people to converse. .... I expected people to see the headline and think "but our secondary isn't average. .." and won't to argue do they click. ....and then see that I'm not actually saying they are in fact average. .....I'm saying "even if they are" that it wouldn't matter cause the front will make them better.

It's not that complicated DA

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 4:58 PM

Clickbait. Got it.

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"Got it"?


Feb 6, 2016, 4:59 PM

Actually you don't. ... because ....well. ...you didn't

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Re: "Got it"?


Feb 6, 2016, 5:03 PM

Bro, you said "I don't see any of them coming in with their limited experience and/or size and lock down the secondary" = you think they are average.

And you used a clickbait title and admitted it as being clickbait. You've been here since 2007 but it seems you're the one that still isn't getting it. Anyways, thanks for another bs post, it's been about two days since I've seen one.

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Re: "Got it"?


Feb 6, 2016, 5:05 PM

Your reading comprehension is off the chart. ...unfortunately for you its in the wrong direction.

Smh

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Re: "Got it"?


Feb 6, 2016, 5:12 PM

Trust me, it has nothing to do with our comprehension, but rather with your use of the language.

If your post was so well put together, how is it that 4 pages of people have replied exactly as I have? Learn something - say no to clickbait titles and agendas. If you want a discussion, start one. But don't set it up one way and continue with "smh" every other post because people read and are confused by what you posted.

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Re: "Got it"?


Feb 6, 2016, 5:20 PM

I'm only having this conversation with you. ...

Just fyi

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I'll rephrase just for you. ...


Feb 6, 2016, 5:04 PM [ in reply to Re: I doubt it'll be average ]

I don't believe our secondary will be average. ...but think about it. ... even if they are ....which I don't. ...but even if. ...ya know. ... pretend. ....if they are. ...

Our front will make life rather easy for them and give them time to grow up and come into their own.

Again. ..I think they will be just fine. .... but worst case. ....if they need time to develop....our front should give it to them.

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Re: I'll rephrase just for you. ...


Feb 6, 2016, 5:08 PM

Oh I agree our front seven is a problem for each and every one of our opponents. But I also call a spade a spade.

Don't call me stupid when you post "I don't see any of them coming in with their limited experience and/or size and lock down the secondary" and expect me to assume you aren't equating that to "being average". If anything, by the way that reads, that's exactly what you think.

This is a forum, not a place people go to solve riddles or find hidden meanings. If you mean one thing, say that. Don't say black when you mean white. THAT is making it complicated.

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Re: I'll rephrase just for you. ...


Feb 6, 2016, 5:17 PM

Ok genius. ..

Who us going to "lock down" one side of the field like Mac did last year. ....

I'll wait. ....

....still waiting. ...



Let me help. .... I've already said Tank is going to be the man. He had an awesome year. But LOGICALLY I think it's unrealistic to think he will be MAC.

And none of the others will be Mac THIS YEAR.

But a few have the talent to be Mac .....with experience.

So, we don't have anyone coming in to lock it down. ...not like what we were used to. I'm not speaking in code. And to say they aren't going to come in and lock it down doesn't = average DA. It means. ..... news flash. ...that they aren't stepping on the field day one and locking it down. We aren't going to be able to put guys on an island as often like we did Mac. ... not right away. Maybe Tank will be able to. .... but no one can say that for certainty. Mac was one on one. .... we rolled coverage to Tank's side in many cases. Can Tank be a one on one guy 90%+ of the game? I don't know. ... no one does yet. ....

But!

I don't think he has to. .. I think our front will mean we don't have to leave guys alone as often. Hence my original post.

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Re: I doubt it'll be average


Feb 6, 2016, 5:14 PM [ in reply to Re: I doubt it'll be average ]

You notice how he's the only one who's arguing this with you. Everyone else knows what you meant. You're good man, it was really not hard to understand.

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Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:16 PM [ in reply to Re: I doubt it'll be average ]

It doesn't mean they will be average among all D1 teams. It doesn't even mean they will be average among all P5 teams. It could just mean it's an average strength unit compared to our other units - or our past units.

It's certainly nothing to throw a fit over.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:19 PM

Thank you!

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:19 PM [ in reply to Chill man. Average can be a relative term. ]

Dude I'm chill. I don't particularly like being called stupid by someone posting stupidity. Period. No need to swoop in to save anyone, I'm not beating on an elderly person in a wheelchair or anything.

Don't say "even if our secondary is average" or "I don't see any of them coming in with their limited experience and/or size and lock down the secondary" and then get upset when someone responds by saying we aren't average. That's retarded.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:21 PM

Smh..... like beating my head against a wall.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:30 PM

You've been shaking your head since page one but we're on page 5. So I'm the just the only one still feeding your ego.

And since you're in the education tip - guys like Mackenzie Alexander come around once every 5 years FBS-wide, if you're lucky. He's been a first round draft pick since the day he stepped on the field. Who will "replace" him? In the same capacity? Probably no one. What I do know is that we have a faster, bigger, taller safety in Tanner Muse and that Tankersly had the most interceptions on the team last year. We also just signed one of the best, if not THE best cornerbacks out of high school in Mullen and Batson should have him around 185-190 by kickoff in September, which is 8-10lbs less than what Mackenzie Alexander graduated at. He runs the 40 in the same time Mack did AND he is 2" taller. So my money is on Trayvon.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:45 PM

And. ... you may be right. ... that's what is so stupid here. I'm not arguing against the possible upside. I'm pointing out the floor. Which "even if our secondary is average" it will still preform better than average because our front is so good.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:59 PM

Dude I get it. You started the whole name-calling thing, I've yet to go there. I simply delivered the reasoning behind my initial response.

I'm excited to see what Reed & Venables put together with these guys. When I started watching film on Tanner Muse last year and realizing he was bigger than a 21 year old Kearse, even as a junior in high school, the excitement was lit. Now with the addition of Wallace, Simmons, AND Mullen? Summer camp is going to be fun!

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 6:03 PM

Your first post in this thread

"It's insulting, presumptive, and kind of fn rude if you ask me. "

You fired the first shot. ;)

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 6:10 PM

I thought the idea that anyone calling our secondary was / is those things! Lol. My bad.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 6:20 PM

Yeah except you said those to me. ... who did not....

Apology accepted. Let's move on. This is beyond ridiculous now agreed?

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 6:22 PM

Not as ridiculous as 28 new threads about basketball being posted in the football forum! :)

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 6:53 PM

Well it is tnet....

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 9:14 PM

Be nice to CUYankee he has a hard life living in his mama's basement wearing his Power Ranger pjs and eating Cheetos. That's why when someone makes a clear statement he attempts to make a specious argument, it's hi s way of getting noticed and escaping from mama's basement for a little while

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 9:30 PM

Feel better bro? I hope sarcasm and comedy aren't listed on your resume. You suck at both. And your 3 hours late.

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Re: Chill man. Average can be a relative term.


Feb 6, 2016, 5:23 PM [ in reply to Chill man. Average can be a relative term. ]

And as I said. ..

It's an -even if this were true- statement. ...

I'm not suggesting it is in fact true. ....

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Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me


Feb 6, 2016, 9:50 AM

how three starters will leaving early. The only one I can see is Alexander. This team was #2 in the nation and at least the second best team in Clemson history in spite of the secondary.

Constant busts that lead to at least 14 pts per game. IT better change and the next secondary needs to be better. I don't know who that falls on. I'm thinking maybe coach Reid, who had a secondary at NC State that we scored 62 points on in his final year there.

17 to Boston College who couldn't score on anyone.
37 to North Carolina (Just because of punter turnover at our 30 doesn't mean it has to be TD)
41 to NC State (take away 7 that was allowed on kickoff return) = 34
27 to Syracuse (take away 7 allowed for kick return) =20
32 to South Carolina (just because offense fumbles at midfield doesn't mean it has to become a TD)
45 to Alabama


Good performances were
App State = 10
Wofford = 10
Louisville = 17
Wake Forest = 13
Miami = 0
Notre Dame = 22 (Secondary nearly cost us this game with familiar late game collapse)
Oklahoma = 17
Florida State = 13
Georgia Tech = 24 (really only 17 because our punt team gave up a touchdown with bad snap)


Kearse used to be one of my favorite Clemson Tigers, but I can't say much for the last half of his season this year. TJ Green was also becoming one of my favs until the national championship game. Blanks will always be one of my favorites because of his banquet speech, but he really didn't set the woods on fire after his injuries.
I'm ready for Wiggins to return and I consider him a returning starter that the national media doesn't when they say how many starters we have returning on defense. But I'm ready for Wiggins to return and then for some new blood.

And I'm ready to see the end of sloppy fourth quarters whether they're due to putting in backups for mop-up duty, or whether they're due to the fact our lead is so big that we just get slack, whether they're due to the fact that the other team is desperate and pulling out all stops and going on four downs. I'm ready to see then end of easy bust touchdowns even if it is just due to the fact that the offense turned over the ball at midfield. That doesn't have to always result in a touchdown. I'm tired of no matter what the score is the other team making the final look closer than it was beause of sloppy 4th quarters. If you play like that in those instances, you will play like that when the game is on the line and that's exactly what happened and it bit us in the last quarter of the last game. It took the best team in the country to make us pay, but they did.

We needed to win 15 games and we won 14 games and 3 quarters and three minutes.


But we are 14-1, #2 in the nation, Division Champs, State Champs again, ACC Champions, Orange Bowl Champions and just maybe the best team in Clemson history, at worst the second best. But I'm not sure about some of the busted plays in the secondary. We will be able to out sore anyone that we hold t0 30 points besides maybe Auburn and Florida State. That's the only two teams I can see even having a chance to hold us to under 30 this coming year. The rest of the games we should score at least 37 points and more. Basically this same offense scored 40 on Bama and 37 on Oklahoma. If we score 37, we should not be worrying about winning the game.

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Re: Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me


Feb 6, 2016, 10:05 AM

Your post is right on, especially the way we played in the 2nd half of the season.
Kearse appeared to play with a certain nonchalance that was dissapointing. The others were banged up. Too many busts.

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Re: Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me


Feb 6, 2016, 10:08 AM [ in reply to Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me ]

Excellent post!!!! I was on TI for years and have been here for a couple of years and this was as good of a post, assessment, critique of the season and defense as I've ever read. Some will take it as being negative, but from a pure football assessment standpoint, this is spot on....excellent 81to85!

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Re: Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me


Feb 6, 2016, 1:05 PM [ in reply to Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me ]

You can't say it was average when we had one side of the field shut down by Mac. Our safety play in coverage suffered. I expect Tank to be as good or better than he was last year (he grew up a lot last year) I don't think he will be Mac good. ...but he is legit.

I think the other corners will have growing pains ...they will flash their talent and then their lack of experience.

I think our safeties may actually perform better in coverage this year but Jadar can suffer from busts and although I really like Wiggins we have to remember he hasnt played a meaningful snap in a while. ....may be a little rusty.

So all that to say my original (totally misunderstood ) point. ....

Our front is so loaded that whatever our secondary may look like....it will be improved because of that front!

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We were very good at CB, average at safety, and average


Feb 6, 2016, 5:19 PM [ in reply to Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me ]

in terms of LBs in coverage. Factor in the pressure we got off the edge with Lawson and Dodd, and our overall pass defense was quite good.

The only thing I've been particularly surprised about is the Kearse hype. Aside from freak athletic potential I've never thought he was outstanding.

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Re: We were very good at CB, average at safety, and average


Feb 6, 2016, 5:26 PM

Yeah, I believe we have a very likely chance at significant improvement in coverage with our safeties. I think BV saw the Jk and TJ were suited for run support and he had Mac who could erase one side of the field. ...so BV played to that strength. Our safeties often were used like extra LB'S.

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And to be fair, 38 pts vs Bama consindering kick return


Feb 6, 2016, 8:42 PM [ in reply to Our secondary wa average THIS year. It is still beyond me ]

for a touchdown. I can't blame the secondary for that.

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Because of the question marks.....


Feb 6, 2016, 1:06 PM

in the secondary, kind-of makes ya think that Venables maybe even MORE
aggressive in 2016.



#21

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Re: Because of the question marks.....


Feb 6, 2016, 1:18 PM

I don't doubt it. ...

Tank is going to be great. ...but I don't think he will be Mac great.

We traded Mac for Tank.... not a big drop but logically speaking it is a drop off.

Whoever plays opposite Tank will not be what Tank was last year. They will have talent but you have to logically assume their will be a slight drop off there as well.

I think we have POTENTIAL to be better with our safeties in coverage for two reasons:

1. I think Kearse and green weren't great in coverage to begin with.

2. They were however, good as run support. ... and I think our added talent and depth at LB will reduce the need for that this year.

So WORST CASE is we start as an average secondary (that isn't a knock on anyone's talent. ...I'm saying "worst case"....and recognizing the value of experience )....but our front will support them in such a way that I think there still wouldn't be a drop off in production if this "worst case" were to be reality.

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