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Orange Blooded [4379]
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Legend [19923]
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Why am I not surprised Lee Bright was one of the 3
Jul 6, 2015, 6:01 PM
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What an utter tool.. a walking, talking embarrassment to the great state of SC.
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110%er [5704]
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Is his middle name "NotSo"?
Jul 6, 2015, 7:11 PM
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nm
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Team Captain [467]
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And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about
Jul 6, 2015, 6:24 PM
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Whether a confederate monument in NC should also be removed. It will never be enough until they remove every symbol of the south. My family member died carrying the confederate flag as well as other family members who died in the war. I also have family members who died in another war that rebelled against the existing government, the revolutionary war. So am I supposed to honor them and treat the Confederate veterans as traitors? It seems like a similar situation to me.
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Hall of Famer [22384]
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My ancestors fought and died in the Civil War.
Jul 6, 2015, 7:15 PM
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I regret their involvement on the side of slavery and would have preferred that they were abolitionists. I wish they could have mounted a rebellion against the 1-3% of people that owned slaves.
That's a heritage I could have been proud of.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Every group of people on the planet has enslaved another.
Jul 6, 2015, 7:53 PM
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Judging the past by the morals of the present is a exercise in meaninglessness.
Singling out certain flags for representing slavery is dumb, especially if those who like the flag renounce slavery.
Native Americans have just as much right to want the American flag removed as blacks may want the Confederate battle flag removed.
75 years before the civil war to be anti-slavery, up north, was to be a fringe lunatic. Even Lincoln was a white supremacist.
People have no idea what they are talking about, yet they love to grab the moral high ground.
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Hall of Famer [22384]
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Why would someone NOT take the moral high ground?***
Jul 6, 2015, 8:49 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Because there is no moral high ground on this issue.
Jul 6, 2015, 11:27 PM
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There are just those who feel the need to put themselves above others in any way that gives them better self-esteem.
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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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I believe in "States Rights" but not Slavery which were the two...
Jul 6, 2015, 11:38 PM
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Main issues overall in succeeding from Union, im0.
Now, in early 1960's please Remember a "Democratic" governor (Fritz) & his Democratic led legislative body put the Confederate Battle Flag up to protest Intergration ( not the big bad Republicans!).
Yes, it is time to remove it & to a sacred place for those who like & revere history.
GoTiGERS
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Hall of Famer [22384]
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You should know better than that.
Jul 7, 2015, 12:07 PM
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States Rights is a sugar coating on the slavery issue.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Because there is no moral high ground on this issue.
Jul 7, 2015, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to Because there is no moral high ground on this issue. ] |
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> There are just those who feel the need to put
> themselves above others in any way that gives them
> better self-esteem.
And you, apparently, being the best example of the principle. Have another cold one. 
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: Because there is no moral high ground on this issue.
Jul 8, 2015, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Because there is no moral high ground on this issue. ] |
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> There are just those who feel the need to put
> themselves above others in any way that gives them
> better self-esteem.
Could be. Or sometimes some people decide not to be a ######.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Every group of people on the planet has enslaved another.
Jul 7, 2015, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to Every group of people on the planet has enslaved another. ] |
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> Judging the past by the morals of the present is a
> exercise in meaninglessness.
>
> Singling out certain flags for representing slavery
> is dumb, especially if those who like the flag
> renounce slavery.
>
> Native Americans have just as much right to want the
> American flag removed as blacks may want the
> Confederate battle flag removed.
>
> 75 years before the civil war to be anti-slavery, up
> north, was to be a fringe lunatic. Even Lincoln was a
> white supremacist.
>
> People have no idea what they are talking about, yet
> they love to grab the moral high ground.
Better the Moral High Ground than the Olympus of Intellectual Superiority. It isn't judging the past by today's morals. It's the expression of today's morals in spite of the past.
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110%er [5704]
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The difference: one nation was conceived to promote liberty
Jul 6, 2015, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about ] |
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... and the other was conceived to promote the continuation of slavery.
To believe otherwise is to delude yourself.
I had an ancestral grandfather fight in the Revolutionary War (Battle of King's Mountain and helped push Cornwallis' forces back to the sea). I probably had relatives fight in the Civil War too but I'm not aware of those. So I'm not trying to say my family history isn't intertwined with both events, I'm sure it is.
But, the reasons for the Civil War are a stain on the Southern states that seceded and to try and whitewash those reasons is disingenuous.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Both were devised with the intention of slavery only one
Jul 6, 2015, 7:54 PM
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also included genocide.
Guess which one that was.
Hypocrites.
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110%er [5704]
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Actually, the Southern colonies would not do anything ...
Jul 6, 2015, 9:28 PM
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... in regards to signing the Declaration of Independence or ratifying the Constitution unless there was language in or an understanding going forward that they would be allowed to continue the practice of slavery. So, that whole "3/5ths" language is an appeasement to the Southern colonies to get them on board.
Eradication of native American peoples is a stain on the whole of the US.
The "trial of tears" was the removal of tribes in the Southeast. Southerners didn't seem to upset when that happened. And this occurred well before the Civil War.
You think the CSA was gong to give the western Carolinas, north Georgia, and eastern Tennessee back to the Cherokees or most of Florida back to the Seminoles? Please, don't be delusional just to try to win a debate.
I was born and raised in South Carolina and my father's family has been in the Carolinas (mostly Appalachia of North Carolina) since before the Revolutionary War, but I'm not blind to past misdeeds. And I'm not going to try to fluff up the CSA as some paragon of greatness and it certainly wasn't better than the USA.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It's not any better and it's not any worse.
Jul 6, 2015, 11:25 PM
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Before I waste time destroying what I hope didn't just happen... I'll ask directly. Are you claiming that the South has more responsibility than the federal government for the centuries-long genocide of Native Americans?
Please tell me you didn't just walk down that path.
The argument I am making is that you, and anyone else, who passes judgement on the American South as an especially violent, racist or slave-loving place, relative to anywhere else is ignorant, naive, and self-righteous.
Passing moral judgement on a particular group of people or a particular region at a particular moment in history is merely showing the world that your historical perspective is limited and your critical thinking is lacking. Though that never stops people from running their mouths.
BTW Georgia was THE ONLY of the original colonies to ban slavery for a very long time before the North conveniently found it moral compass. Slavery existed up North until industrialization subsumed agriculture as the principle economic consideration. Geographic determinism mean anything to you?
Your hypocrisy against the South isn't rooted in facts or logic. Care to reflect on that?
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110%er [5704]
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I have no hypocrisy against the South.
Jul 7, 2015, 2:21 AM
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I have suspicions of people who seem to think the CSA had the moral upper hand in the Civil War or refuse to admit that the main reason the South seceded was the issue of slavery.
Some folks try to say it was because the North was more and industrial and the South was more an agricultural based economy (but this comes down to the agricultural based economy needing cheap labor, which at the time was slavery).
Some folks say it was because Lincoln was elected and the South was afraid he would attempt to abolish slavery.
There are many reasons given for the Civil War, but they almost all boil down to the issue of slavery.
You seem to be denying this point or trying to say since others were doing it it was justified.
Look at South Carolina's "Causes of Secession":
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/south-carolina-declaration-of-causes-of-secession/
The word "slave" or "slavery" is mentioned 18 times. If slavery wasn't the main reason why is it mentioned 18 times?
Give me a break.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I think you need to reread my post.
Jul 7, 2015, 9:01 AM
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Please find anything in any of my posts that suggest I deny slavery being the central issue in the secession of the South. If your reading comprehension machine is working then you should clearly see my point about moral judgments in history. My point is clearly not that the south is better, instead it is that all the judgments specifically leveled against the South are hypocritical and ill conceived considering that everything the south is judged for every other group of people in every other corner of the world have done just as bad if not worse. Geography and economics had much more to do with different attitudes about slavery in the United States than anything else. Therefore, I am criticizing the tendency for people to awkwardly insist on morally judging others just to make themselves feel better.
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Oculus Spirit [93639]
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It wouldn't help.
Jul 9, 2015, 11:34 AM
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Obviously he started his research with a theory and went directly to the one document which he considers the only fair and reasonable evidence involved in an exhaustive study of the causes of the civil war. The fact that it's the only thing to support his primary claim is incidental.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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You can do whatever the #### you want with the flag but why
Jul 6, 2015, 7:34 PM
[ in reply to And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about ] |
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should it still be on the Statehouse grounds when it's been co-opted by people who kill.
It may represent your family members' sacrifices (I'm assuming they were enlisted in the Army of Northern Virginia because that's whose flag we fly on the Statehouse grounds--so you might wanna check on that...) but it has grown to symbolize many other things to other people, much of which is not something for our State to display in an official capacity.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Name one thing that hasn't been co-opted by people who kill.***
Jul 6, 2015, 7:55 PM
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Name one thing that hasn't been co-opted by people who kill.***
Jul 6, 2015, 10:26 PM
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Bunny rabbits and flower bouquets ....have never been contracted by people who kill .
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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110%er [5977]
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Re: And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about
Jul 6, 2015, 8:21 PM
[ in reply to And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about ] |
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Do you really need a monument to remember your family? The first fact of war the losers are tried as criminals by the winners, Robert E. Lee didn't return home after the war he went to prison. What do you think Germany would have done to Churchill if they had won the war? If you win your a hero, if you lose your a war criminal.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That is so much better of a reason to remove the flag than
Jul 6, 2015, 8:29 PM
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what most people are saying.
As a proud Southerner, I can appreciate that logic so much more than the whole racism crap.
But that doesn't excuse Amazon and Walmart. Let supply and demand dictate what they sell. Not fear of backlash from interest groups.
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110%er [5977]
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Re: That is so much better of a reason to remove the flag than
Jul 6, 2015, 8:42 PM
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You'll still be able to buy it somewhere. Walmart and Amazon are publicly traded companies and the last thing they'd want to be is answering questions about the fact that a mass murder bought his hate symbol in their store. With the miniscule amount of profit that merchandise brings to their company it isn't worth the potential headache. With bar coding technology they'd be able to trace where it was bought and the reports would hound the CEO of that company and make his life hell.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It has more to do with political correctness than anything
Jul 6, 2015, 11:29 PM
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else. Political correctness is a much bigger threat to the survival of Western civilization than racism. That certainly has not always been the case, but it obviously is now.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about
Jul 6, 2015, 9:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about ] |
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Robert E. Lee never went to prison. He became president of Washington (now Washington & Lee) College in Lexington, VA. Lee didn't return to his home at Arlington, because it had been turned into a cemetery, but he was never molested in the least by the victors. You're thinking of Jefferson Davis. And even Davis was eventually freed and never tried for treason or anything else.
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110%er [5704]
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Lee? Prison? Never happened.
Jul 6, 2015, 9:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about ] |
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I'm pretty sure very few (if any) CSA generals, officers, or soldiers went to prison after surrendering.
There were POWs, but after the CSA surrendered I'm pretty sure most of those were released to return home.
I know Jefferson Davis was imprisoned for a couple of years, not sure about the rest of the CSA executive staff.
The USA went pretty easy on the CSA after the CSA surrendered.
Everybody likes to complain about Sherman's march, but it could have been much worse. At the point of surrendering, the CSA's leaders were pretty much seen as traitors but were never tried for treason.
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Team Captain [467]
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Do you think we should not honor Vietnam veterans because we
Jul 6, 2015, 9:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: And the Charlotte news station can't wait to talk about ] |
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did not win that war?
You are talking about something that happened 150 years ago. These are not family members I have ever met or even people that people I know met. A memorial to honor them for their courage and support of their homeland is something needed. I don't want history swept away and forgotten.
We are always warned about forgetting the holocaust, but now we are supposed to forget the Confederacy.
To think the Civil War was just fought over slavery is a very simplistic view. Even Lincoln said, "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it." There were people in the south and the north who wanted to abolish slavery, but to think of those in the south as the villains and those in the north as saints is not accurate.
You had slavery in the south and not in the north because the south had an economy based on agriculture and in the north it was based on manufacturing. When cotton became the main crop, it required a lot of cheap labor. I am in no way supporting slavery, but it was a different time. Most people in the north did not even fight in the war. Very little of the war was fought on their homeland. if you lived in the south as all of my family did, you were involved in the war. If this was truly angels from the north all concerned about ending slavery, why did most of the freed slaves not relocate to the north after they were freed? Would they have been welcomed with opened arms by most people?
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CU Guru [1712]
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Re: 37-3
Jul 6, 2015, 7:29 PM
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So what's next?
Are things really going to get better by removing the flag?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Nobody even thinks it will. It's all about being PC.***
Jul 6, 2015, 7:56 PM
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Orange Blooded [2683]
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Yes
Jul 7, 2015, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: 37-3 ] |
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We'll have the ACC Baseball tournament back in Greenville before long. And we'll be able to have NCAA basketball tournament games in this state (along with other sports playoffs).
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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i actually thought this was going to be an accurate count-
Jul 7, 2015, 11:09 AM
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of how many football players on the UNC 2 deep havent been to class ever versus how many have !
I am such an optimist
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Legend [16132]
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I was going to ask if it was the number of basketball
Jul 7, 2015, 12:06 PM
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players who took Swahili twice compared to those that didn't...I think we're on the same page
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Orange Blooded [4379]
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94-20 in the SC House
Jul 9, 2015, 8:53 AM
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now it's up to Haley...
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Oculus Spirit [93639]
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I bet she doesn't have the balls to veto it!***
Jul 9, 2015, 11:37 AM
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