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Letterman [267]
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The MLB scouts - why is it all about height and velocity
May 3, 2015, 4:40 AM
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Last year Crown out pitched NC State's Rhodon in the regular season and Duke's Mautuella in the ACC tournament. Last night he out pitched Funkhouser. Rodon picked up a $5.7 million bonus last year as the #3 overall pick, and scouting reports have Mautuella and Funkhouser projected to go in that same section of the draft even though Mautuella will not yet be recovered from injury. Crownover is not projected to go during the first few rounds. There are a lot of successful MLB pitchers with similar height and velocity (300 game winner, Tommy Glavine immediately comes to mind). Why are height and velocity valued over all else?
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CU Medallion [67851]
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Re: The MLB scouts - why is it all about height and velocity
May 3, 2015, 8:48 AM
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This is like that stupid qb height myth that drives me nuts. Look at Drew Breese. I think he does ok. It is just that stupid Kiper McShay philosophy that everything is a measurable and it isnt
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110%er [5577]
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Re: The MLB scouts - why is it all about height and velocity
May 3, 2015, 8:55 AM
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Same thing happens with College baseball recruiting. A lot of kids who aren't good baseball players get scholarship offers because they're 6'3 and 160 lbs with "room to grow" (especially pitchers).
It's become too much like the NFL in my opinion, they're taking too many projects and not enough baseball players. A guy like Crownover is a "baseball players", and every team needs them if they're gonna win games.
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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He reminds me of Andy Pettite***
May 3, 2015, 9:31 AM
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Good point. Greg Maddux and a slew of Cy Young awards
May 3, 2015, 12:34 PM
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say Hi.
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CU Guru [1464]
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For every Maddox, Glavine, or Pettite, 3 HOF pitchers,
May 3, 2015, 10:24 PM
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There are thousands of Michael Roths. Btw, Pettite was big, like 6'3". Pettite could get it up around 95 and had a nasty cutter. Glavine around 93 with movement and a great change. Maddox also around 91-93 with possibly best control ever. All of those pitchers had 2 or 3 plus pitches.
Now to the original question, big players can get stronger and have better durability in general. You can coach other things but only natural ability creates a high 90's heater. Big leaguers tee off on 90 mph fastballs if they aren't in a good spot, moving, or looking out for the other nasty pitch. That's why Rodon, David Orice, and Chris Sale, and Funkhouser go higher than guys like Roth or Crownover. Potential.
Don't think I'm knocking Crownover, he's a great pitcher but I'm honestly answering a question.
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Letterman [267]
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Re: For every Maddox, Glavine, or Pettite, 3 HOF pitchers,
May 3, 2015, 10:45 PM
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I understand the potential argument. I just think a lot of those guys bust because they never learn to pitch.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: For every Maddox, Glavine, or Pettite, 3 HOF pitchers,
May 4, 2015, 8:23 AM
[ in reply to For every Maddox, Glavine, or Pettite, 3 HOF pitchers, ] |
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Maddux might have hit 93 in his early days but when he pitched for the braves he did'nt reach 90 much. Plus it's a big help when you can throw it a foot and half off the plate and it's call a strike because he hit the mitt.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: The MLB scouts - why is it all about height and velocity
May 3, 2015, 11:06 PM
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I think it might have to do somewhat with the release point. The higher up the arm, the less "on plane" the ball is. In other words, a ball released from 1 foot higher (all theoretical heights based on taller pitcher with longer arms) means the ball is moving more downward than the release from a lower point, so not only do you have to catch up with the pitch, you also have to meet it on a more downward slope. Probably a slightly harder pitch to match up with. Of course, speed kills and is always valued.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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it's not like those pitchers weren't also "dominant".
May 3, 2015, 11:31 PM
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they separate themselves with things such as.... well, height & velocity.
neither glavine nor maddox[someone else mentioned him] were first round picks and crown's tj surgery is no secret.
he'll get his chance and even though glavine was a 2nd rounder, he started out in A ball then worked his way up.
do me a favor though, please, there are a lot of "great" hs/college/minor/major league pitchers, but there's only 1 tommy glavine.
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Hall of Famer [22777]
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Yeah, even the great Glavine struggled his first few years
May 3, 2015, 11:51 PM
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in the majors and started getting good in the early 90s at the same
time Atlanta did. Will never forget watching his win in game 6 of the
'95 World Series. BTW, did you see him the short time he was in
Greenville in the 80s? Was the 1st or 2nd season of the Greenville
Braves.
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Letterman [267]
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Re: it's not like those pitchers weren't also "dominant".
May 4, 2015, 6:42 AM
[ in reply to it's not like those pitchers weren't also "dominant". ] |
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The reason that I used Glavine's name was simply that he was one of the best examples that I could think of of a 6' tall very successful pitcher. Just making a point that 6' 6" isn't a requirement for success as a MLB pitcher. If you look at Matthew's #'s compared with historic ACC #'s, a statistician would probably give him about a 40-50% chance of ever making a mlb roster (the odds of him winning 305 games wouldn't be close to 1:100).
I'm sure that there is a method behind the scouting madness. They obviously want to select the best, and when they look at the #'s over time - it must be true that height and velocity trump control, consistent arm slotting, etc. Matthew has the advantage of being left handed. Draft projections are worse for under 6' righties. As far as the surgery goes, it appears that a lot of pitchers today are going to require TJ surgery at some point. Pitchers are being taken in the 1st round that are still in the recovery phase. Regardless of where he's picked and where he's assigned, I'll continue to follow the progress of the young man from Ringgold, GA. One like that doesn't come through this area very often. 
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yes, there's a method. you can't teach 95 mph. a taller
May 4, 2015, 9:47 AM
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pitcher releases the ball closer & provides a steeper angle through the hitting zone...
that pitcher can fill every role on the roster - rotational starter, spot, long relief, set up, closer; not so much for a < 6' guy short on the cheese, heat or smoke that has had surgery and had spot fatigue in the past. it's not a knock on crown, it just is; he'll definitely get his chance.
i'm not sure anyone that cared did not know why you chose glavine. it's funny that you chose a guy that went in the 2nd round when you're pointing out the #3 overall pick in op? any way, there's only one tommy glavine and the comparison is pretty ludicrous without all the < 6' pitchers with an < 88 mph fastball that haven't made the hall of fame. for grins, here's tommy's numbers after going in round 2.
as nice as tommy's career ended, he had to hone/adjust his game then earn his place. he struggled his first 3 years in atlanta and looking at his first 9 years in the pros, HOF was no where on the radar. one benefit tommy had was he almost never missed his spot which was a very lenient outside part of the plate. he was sneaky quick on right handers and could beat them on the inside once he had them leaning.
anyway, i certainly didn't ask or expect you to stop rooting or following; i imagine you won't be alone pulling for crown to have half of glavine's career. i'll be there for the ride as well.
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Letterman [267]
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Re: yes, there's a method. you can't teach 95 mph. a taller
May 4, 2015, 11:50 AM
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I think Matthew's 2 seamer is often at 87-88 mph, but I believe his 4 seamer (which he doesn't throw as much because it's typically flatter with slight rise) typically is at 90-92? I've seen him hit 94 with his 4 seamer, but it's possible that the gun was calibrated incorrectly or aimed incorrectly. He gets nice movement on his 2 seamer (I believe even a little better this season than last). And his off speed pitch comes in at 75-77, which seems about perfect. His curveball is better this season than last, even with the lower seams on the ball. He hides all of his pitches well / arm slot looks identical regardless of pitch. He is walking more batters this year, but not giving the batters as much to hit. I think his WHIP is at 1.00, ERA is about 1.22, and opponents batting avg is around 0.180? What I love most about him is his resilience and determination. He's often able to work out of seemingly impossible situations (2nd and 3rd, no one out). Being from the same area, I also know a bit about him personally. I've seen him encouraging small kids. I've watched as he spent 10 or 15 minutes at a time talking with mentally handicapped foster children that no one else gave the time of day to. He's a fine young man. We're blessed to have other fine young men on the team as well. I was glad that he chose Clemson as a Sophmore in high school. He only lacks a couple of courses getting his degree. I believe he has a mlb career in front of him, but regardless - don't be surprised if he's in a front office some day 
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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he gets college hitters out, no one's arguing that, you asked
May 4, 2015, 11:58 AM
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a completely different question, brought up a hofer in his defense and now you're just running on.
he'll get his chance and i hope like a lot of other clemson fans that he can parlay that chance into a nice major league career.
fingers crossed, but none of that changes what you originally asked, the whole point of this thread and the reasons or answers that have been given. he's a nice college pitcher.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Well just because a guy can handle a college lineup
May 4, 2015, 9:01 AM
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doesn't mean he can handle an MLB lineup. The gap in bat speed, pitch recognition, information on pitchers, experience, etc is massive between college and the big leagues, and i think any team taking a pitcher in the first round is going to be looking at a guy that they believe at least has a chance to become an MLB starter.
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Rock Defender [57]
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Plane of the ball..
May 4, 2015, 2:08 PM
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Your swing must match the path of the baseball thrown by the pitcher as closely as possible, and for as long as possible, to successfully hit the ball.
A tall pitcher has more of a "downward" flight path thereby making it more difficult for the batter to match the plane of the pitched ball. Many batters in college do not have an upward swing plane, or enough of one, to get and stay on plane. Pros do.
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50
