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Orange Blooded [3214]
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Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season
Mar 31, 2015, 7:33 AM
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but there really is no way Legget will be fired after this season. He really is the closest thing we have to a Bobby Bowden on campus and we all saw how FSU struggled to move him out without firing him.
I said this in a earlier post and, although I have no "inside information," I still say it holds true.
I think he will be gone after this season and I don't think he will be fired. I suspect there was an agreement put in place after last year with the AD that he had this season to prove himself worthy of a few more years. Unless the miraculous happens then that won't be the case. I think at that point he is allowed to retire with the dignity he deserves.
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Orange Blooded [4754]
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Let's hope so.
Mar 31, 2015, 7:43 AM
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DRad has not handled the basketball issue well IMHO. Maybe he can do something right with baseball.
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110%er [5221]
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I agree but TD should have handled it
Mar 31, 2015, 7:45 AM
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this way with Jack years ago and not allowed the program to deteriorate. It's going to take a special coach and a lot of time to get it back to a highly competitive program again.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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He should be allowed to retire with dignity....
Mar 31, 2015, 7:49 AM
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as long as he's willing to do so after THIS season.
If he insists on hanging around another year or two, like Bobby Bowden did, the AD needs to help Leggett find the exit door.
This team has been permitted to underachieved and flounder around in mediocrity long enough.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Dignity my butt. He has not done the job. Kick him
Mar 31, 2015, 9:14 PM
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out. Maybe, the next one will try work a little harder.
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CU Medallion [67799]
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Re: Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season
Mar 31, 2015, 8:22 AM
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The bobble heads are another matter
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Head Coach [787]
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What a great comparison...
Mar 31, 2015, 8:39 AM
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with both with Bobby Bowden AND his football teams performance those last years.
Let's hope our next coach can turn things around quickly--just don't let Jack keep digging the hole deeper and deeper.
Go Tigers!!
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All-In [30782]
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I don't see it happening.
Mar 31, 2015, 8:46 AM
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Depends on the AD expectations. clemson has made it to the playoffs every year. To the ad this may be expected or may actually be considered above requirements.
If Clemson doesn't make it this year, the ad may think. . Ok this is the 1st year you didn't meet your expectation.
I imagine AD's are not as hot headed as fans.
I have always suggested fans contacting the AD directly and expressing your expectations directly to the ad directly.
ranting on random internets is Silly. If I was an ad or coach I surely wouldn't make decisions based on the internet.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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The "expectation" is Omaha ....
Mar 31, 2015, 9:02 AM
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which is why the word is embroidered on the back of the team hats and while that was never a reasonable expectation this year, I do think hosting and/or winning a Regional was a reasonable expectation (something Jack has not managed to do since 2010), but at this point, not only is hosting and/or winning a Regional highly unlikely, it's entirely possible that Clemson is completely left-out of the 64 team NCAA baseball tournament field. Last year the ACC got seven (7) teams in the Tournament. Right now, Clemson is tied for 9th in the conference standings with Georgia Tech behind Louisville, FSU, Miami, NC State, Virginia, UNC, Wake Forest and Virginia Tech, and with weekend series remaining against UNC, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and FSU, the outlook isn't very favorable.
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All-In [30782]
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I don't know if that is true. they may be. We will find out what
Mar 31, 2015, 10:48 AM
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The AD s expectations are eventually.
All we can do is support the team in the meantime and get in the ad's ear.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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Frankly, I do not have a great deal of confidence in the AD
Mar 31, 2015, 11:01 AM
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If Leggett and Clemsaon do decide to part ways, my concern is that DRad will simply fill the position with some mediocre coach that no one has ever heard of before because that person was willing to accept the position for the low ball salary level Clemson set, rather than going out paying whatever it takes to get the absolute best person available.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Part of that makes no sense whatsoever.
Mar 31, 2015, 12:45 PM
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If DRad doesn't have high expectations of the program, how on Earth could he fire a HOF, nationally well-respected coach? Think about that. If DRad didn't care about immediate, elite success he would leave the HOF coach we already have in place longer, which he will probably do anyway.
If he fires someone like Jack Leggett, which will send ripples in the college baseball world, he would have to have a solid replacement lined up. The problem is that there are less than a handful of coaches with more success over the past 10 years than our current coach, and probably none of them would come to Clemson, especially if Leggett was pushed out this season. We would be forced to take a chance on a less established coach.
Corbin, for example, would HATE Clemson if we fired his mentor at this point. That might not be the case for all of Jack's coaching tree (though I think it probably is) but it is definately true for Corbin. Jack is like a father to Corbin. Anyone who doesn't get that is fooling themselves. College baseball culture isn't like football. Loyalty and patience is long extinct in football, and people get that. Not true though in college baseball. DRad probably understands this.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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I don't think getting Corbin to Clemson is realistic.....
Mar 31, 2015, 1:10 PM
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anyway unless and until the University does something about the disparity in scholarship allocations that curently exists.
One of the reasons Corbin has done so well at Vandy is becasue he can offer most of his players full scholarships; something other collegiate baseball programs are simply unable to match.
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CU Medallion [61729]
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CU Guru [1400]
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Honestly
Mar 31, 2015, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to The "expectation" is Omaha .... ] |
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I am worried we will not make the ACC Tournament. We are in 9th place right now after the supposed easy part of the schedule and the top 10 in the conference is all that makes the tournament.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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I agree....
Mar 31, 2015, 12:48 PM
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Not only has this years team not improved over last year, they seem to be going even further in the opposite direction.
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CU Guru [1400]
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I agree that coaches shouldn't pay attention
Mar 31, 2015, 12:31 PM
[ in reply to I don't see it happening. ] |
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but an AD should have someone in their office who spends time each day perusing the various internet sources to get a gauge of where the fanbase stands.
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All-In [30455]
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Yeah the 'new coach' at FSU only won a national title
Mar 31, 2015, 8:56 AM
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after the program waited and waited and waited.
If he won't retire on his own this year, he should be let go.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season
Mar 31, 2015, 9:02 AM
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I ,for one think that if things don't go well,Jack will resign/retire
onhis own fruition.
However,if the season does go bad( and it looks like it's going to be the case),
if Jack doesn't step down than Dan needs to make the decision for him.
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Trainer [35]
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Re: Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season
Mar 31, 2015, 9:24 AM
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Jack is a Hall of Fame coach, and he has many followers and supporters in college baseball. He will be here next year, and what I really hope is that some of these bitter Clemson fans actually retire from baseball and take up fishing! The program would be much better without you!
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CU Medallion [64563]
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If Jack is not intuitive enough to realize.....
Mar 31, 2015, 10:24 AM
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that his ongoing presence is doing nothing to advance or benefit the program, but on the contrary damaging it, the AD has a greater responsibility the University, the program, and the fans to intervene.
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Devotee [305]
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lol it's fans like you that caused our football program and
Mar 31, 2015, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season ] |
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athletics in general to collapse. We dominated the ACC back in the 80s, but other than football pretty much suck in everything else now. We aren't even competitive in sports we once dominated.
Barker diminished athletics and he hired a guy like DRad for reasons other than a desire to be excellent in athletics. President Clements and the BOT now seem engaged in athletics like we were as a school back in the 70s and 80s. If that's true things will improve soon, but I think replacing DRad is a key component of that. We are certainly spending a LOT on facilities to then hire mediocre coaches. That is not only counter productive, but flat out stupid and sends mixed signals to the alumni and fans.
How things play out with Jack will tell us a lot. IMO Jack should have been dealt with years ago.
How we handle Jack/baseball and Brownell/basketball over the next 2 or 3 years are going to tell us whether Clemson has decided to get serious again about athletics or whether we are going to be good in football and let everything else be an after thought. I fear we already know the answer.
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Associate AD [800]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I'd be interested to see how many of these people actually
Mar 31, 2015, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season ] |
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go to baseball games semi-regularly.
The conversations I have with people at games this year (obviously involving expressions of concern and extreme disappointment) are much more moderate and thoughtful than the emotional outburst posts on here.
A small cadre of anti-Jack people have been humming the same tune for a long while, even back when we were going to the CWS every few years and winning regionals most other years, and through this recent string of bad seasons (especially the last 2.5) frustration from baseball-ignorant fans who only know about scores from Tigernet have starting falling one by one to the pressure. Even I would hope that Jack retires after next year if we don't witness a sharp turnaround by then.
But the decline that people talk about really hasn't existed until the last 3 or 4 years, immediately following a final 4 appearance.
We BARELY lost that game to UCONN in 2011 (which involved a criminal call at the plate) that would have sent us to our 9th super-regional in 13 years. Then in 2012 we drew an elite SCAR club in the regional and barely lost to them both times. 2012 we still finished in the top 20. 2013 ended terribly, last year was awful, and this year has been awful. Even the series win over the coots has been overshadowed by the failures.
While the frustration at the last few seasons is totally legitimate, this momentum that has built into such hostility and extreme negativity is way over the top. This whole season has had a tremendous cloud of negativity and pressure hanging over it, even before the first pitch. That is not the type of environment Clemson athletes deserve. At least they are treated better at the actual games.
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Trainer [35]
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Re: I'd be interested to see how many of these people actually
Mar 31, 2015, 3:23 PM
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Well said and I agree. I searched the internet last night to get a sense when the "fire Jack" comments all started, and believe it or not immediately following the loss in the 2010 World Series to the #####. CLemson swept Florida State the last 3 games of that regular season to win first place in the ACC, went to the World Series and won the first two games, and then ended up losing back to back games to the ##### to earn a 3rd place finish! The next day our "loyal" fans were calling for Jack to resign! That was less than 5 years ago! Unreal...what a bunch of emotional "BUFFOONS" we have on this board. Agree that we have higher expectations for our baseball team, and nobody is more disappointed than "Genuine" fans like me, but most of the members on this board need to take some "valium" before you post such flippant / irresponsible comments that are not supported with any facts other than the teams current record.
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Devotee [305]
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Wong. You are being an emotional homer. The numbers tell a
Mar 31, 2015, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to I'd be interested to see how many of these people actually ] |
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very different story. Baseball has been in a slow but steady decline for years and we haven't been the same since 2002. Things sped up after 2006 then started a rapid decline after 2010. The numbers don't lie.
Our baseball fans must be stupid or ignorant of baseball because the product on the field has been bad for years and getting worse. We have way too many errors, esp at key points in the game, and we lose a lot of games on silly things like poor base running. We have terrible fundamentals.
And lets be honest, Jack is an azzhole in many respects. He rubs a LOT of people the wrong way, including high school coaches. People ignore that when you win, but it becomes a problem fast when you aren't winning and the product on the field is sloppy, lacks discipline, and poor fundamentals. He should have retired several years ago.
I find it odd that the same people that say old school guys like Ford or Howard could never coach today, but defend Jack, who has always been a bigger jerk than Ford and Howard combined.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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I have two good friends who are HS baseball coaches in SC...
Mar 31, 2015, 4:37 PM
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both of whom have had players go on to play collegiately at Clemson and South Carolina.
I have heard them both say on a number of occasions that Leggett and Tanner are two of the biggest a$$holes you'll ever meet.
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All-TigerNet [14460]
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Re: I have two good friends who are HS baseball coaches in SC...
Mar 31, 2015, 4:43 PM
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only met jack once, at a coot football game in columbia. he was with tanner. very nice and cordial. spent 10 minutes talking baseball. didnt even drink a beer. son went to his camp. 1st time away from home and didnt want to come home. that is all i can go by.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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I've heard people categorize him both ways. ...
Mar 31, 2015, 4:54 PM
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He was always very cordial to me the few times I've met him.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I have enough experience either directly or indirectly to
Mar 31, 2015, 5:07 PM
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feel pretty confident he's a nice, humble guy.
Of the 10 or so player families I've talked to over the years they all seemed more than happy with Jack. Loyalty comes to mind.
He nearly always makes time to talk to fans. He cares about Clemson, that much I am sure of.
He laughed and acted surprised when my wife wanted his autograph a few years ago because he said people usually wanted the players autographs. He told my wife that it "made his day" that she flattered him that way. We beat FSU later that day.
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110%er [6937]
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Trainer [35]
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Re: All, I can say is the one in Columbia won back to back l
Apr 1, 2015, 8:39 AM
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The post by Peanut pretty much sums up and supports what the biggest hang up is with many of our fans. The fact that we got beat by South Carolina in the 2010 World Series, and the fact that USC went on to win back to back championships. Folks just can move beyond that point. If we would have lost to LSU in that World Series and USC would not have won, the tone of some of the "Peanut" brained fans would be more subdued. I get it now! Thanks Peanut for making it more clear now where the bitterness / emotion all comes from from the minority portion of our fan base!
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Congrats. You were able to cobble together most of the
Mar 31, 2015, 5:25 PM
[ in reply to Wong. You are being an emotional homer. The numbers tell a ] |
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baseless cliches that have been posted over and over with little statistical support over the years. You have nothing but generalizations.
We are playing like garbage this year. We had an absolute failure last year, and a failure of a postseason the year before. Those are critical things we can really talk about. The last few years have been bad and can't be tolerated for long. But this whole 'long-term decline under Jack' crap is crazy.
He has more success, more often, at a higher level than any other baseball coach we've ever had. His overall record, his final rankings, his tourny wins.... you name it. Nobody else has better numbers at Clemson. Why don't you put together some actual numbers and direct comparison? Seriously. I know that's more difficult than blurting out talking points, but try it.
I mean... how stupid is it to speak of a rapid decline after making it to the final 4? How many teams don't experience a 'rapid' decline after making a final 4? We were one bad call away from the Supers the very next year. Also, you are making it sound as it 2006 wasn't Jack Leggett's team. It's a decline from where? Jack's own heights is where. He has had more consistent success than 95% of any NCAA baseball coach EVER.
The numbers tell the story? How about only 6 programs out of the 300+ in our division have more wins than Clemson during Jack's tenure. That's a number. If it's been a rapid decline, then how does he still have such a high number of wins relative to other programs? What other sports program has that kind of elite, long-term statistic under one coach?
And this "Jack is an azzhole" crap is schoolgirl gossip garbage. I've actually met Jack several times. I am around people who have met him many more times than I have. I sit with the families at games and ask them about their kids and their recruitment. I personally hear overwhelmingly positive things. I have spoken to 3 different sets of parents about his youth camp. All of them love the guy (in the context of the camp) and rave about the attention their kids got.
Say something of value instead of just regurgitating talking points.
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CU Medallion [64563]
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"long term" is a relative term....
Mar 31, 2015, 5:33 PM
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but anyone who can't see the programs steady decline over the last four or five years is either blind or simply not paying attention.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It's really weird that a lot of people don't seem to get...
Mar 31, 2015, 5:50 PM
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that this 'decline' is a 'decline' from heights that Jack Leggett took us to.
So Jack's performance has declined, but Jack Leggett is not overseeing a long-term decline in an otherwise elite program.
A lot of awkward failures in logic around here.
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Devotee [305]
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lol god you are clueless. Jack did not build our program.
Mar 31, 2015, 10:20 PM
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Bill Wilhelm built Clemson baseball. Jack took over at the height of the program.
Nothing I wrote above was a cliche.
We went yearssssss without falling under 40 wins, but the last 10 years 40+ wins is a good year.
The best 3 and 5 year stretch, any 3 or 5 years his entire tenure, were his first 3 and 5 years.
I wrote multiple posts in the past where I gave exhaustive statistical analysis that showed a clear and steady decline under Jack that started before 2002.
Do you watch Clemson baseball? Our fundamentals suck. We have untimely errors that cost us 5 to 10 games a year. I've seen Little League teams with better base running. Every year for almost 10 years we've lost games due to base running errors.
From 2002 to now we've only been to Omaha 3 times. And it ain't happening this year either so that's 3 times in 14 years, 2 in 13 years if you don't count 2002. That is totally unacceptable.
Go look at the numbers, we declined from 2002 to 2006, declined further from 2006 to 2010, and have flat sucked since 2010. We haven't won any conference titles recently either.
The numbers are quite clear, but you probably think TB was a great coach too.
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110%er [6937]
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110%er [6937]
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110%er [6937]
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110%er [9028]
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Re: Deer tigernets, Legget will not be fired after this season
Mar 31, 2015, 9:27 AM
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just go away.
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Legend [18663]
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Don't fool yourself. A regional is all that may save Leggett***
Mar 31, 2015, 10:14 AM
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Call it what you want, but JL won't be the 2016 head coach
Mar 31, 2015, 10:20 AM
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I think the fact that we resorted to give-aways and gimmicks to get folks to the WFU series pretty much cemented that.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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sure, and if he refuses to retire then
Mar 31, 2015, 12:37 PM
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What? How would that scenario the ADs fault. He needs to go one way or another, how he chooses to exit is up to him
we are placing way to much emphasis on the ADs wants in this thread. He is merely the administrator who takes action to represent what the true power brokers want, big shots on the board, I'm iptay, and other financial heavies and alumni.
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Associate AD [800]
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If he forces Clemson's hand, his dignity is secondary.***
Mar 31, 2015, 12:48 PM
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110%er [7114]
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There's no indignation in...
Mar 31, 2015, 5:59 PM
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a college athletics coach getting fired, unless there is cheating or some other malfeasance involved. Leggett has been here a long time and it's pretty clear he's reached the end of his effectiveness. If he doesn't resign after this season and DRad DOESN'T fire him, either DRad needs to go or the entire approach to the Clemson baseball program by the CU athletic dept. needs to be overhauled, beginning with Leggett being fired.
Bottom line - Leggett needs to go, and it isn't in disgrace. He's just done... that's all.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: How can you possibly compare this jackleg to Bowden?***
Mar 31, 2015, 9:12 PM
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50
