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CU Guru [1043]
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I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 10:59 AM
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Mcdaniels left early, Coleman transferred, Filer transferred, Djambo transferred. This team has no depth. What do you guys expect? Outside of Grantham and Blossomgame, who are playing very well, this team doesn't have a lot of big recruits. I think Rooks and Devoe are going to be good at some point, but they aren't ready yet. BB has actually gotten a lot out of Nnoko, Hall, and Harrison. I think he is a very good coach. We just have to build some depth and find some more recruits for the offensive end.
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CU Guru [1788]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 11:02 AM
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Excuses excuses....gets old after awhile!!!!
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Orange Blooded [3728]
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Great players seem to have little interest in playing for BB
Dec 20, 2014, 9:10 PM
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My lack of positive opinions on BB for the past 4 years have not subsided and well documented on this board. However, maybe he is the best that Clemson can do, so I've kind of just shut my mouth. I just shake my head whenever I see Brownell bumbling his way through a game as his players just leave for greener pastures when they get sick of playing his style of basketball.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Did they not know what his offense looked like when
Dec 20, 2014, 9:44 PM
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they committed? That problem is on them. It's not "bumbling" it's talent and Brownell has coached up players such as McDaniels and didn't get this job by being a bad coach.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: Great players seem to have little interest in playing for BB
Dec 22, 2014, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to Great players seem to have little interest in playing for BB ] |
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I'm sick of people saying his style of basketball isn't good, and the games are boring to watch. Too many excuses about this. Last year we had the most exciting single player in the last 30 years of Clemson basketball, were on the NCAA Tournament bubble for the entire second half of the season, and still NOBODY CAME. That's just an excuse for a so-called "fan."
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CU Guru [1043]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 11:03 AM
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I didn't even mention TJ Sapp, who would be a senior now.
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CU Guru [1043]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 11:04 AM
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If we are playing above .500 in basketball, that is fine for Clemson. We might be an NCAA team occasionally, but it isn't going to be yearly. We are a football school.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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It's plain and simple
Dec 20, 2014, 11:04 AM
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Clemson is hard to win at in basketball. Think of it in football terms. Saban is the most overrated coach there is. Who can't win at Alabama? Now Sutcliff at Duke, there is a coaching job.
Same rules apply to basketball. Who is coming to Clemson when there is UNC, Duke, WF, Kentucky, etc.? We need to build a culture to win. Good facilities. Good coach (which I think we have). A couple winning seasons. Then we can make a move in the game. It won't be easy and won't happen over night.
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CU Guru [1043]
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Nutcutter
Dec 20, 2014, 11:06 AM
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I agree with almost everything you said. Saban is a great coach though. There is a large list of guys who have failed at Alabama.
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All-Pro [693]
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You have to win before you can build a culture
Dec 20, 2014, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to It's plain and simple ] |
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Culture comes with success. Do you think UNC, Duke, or UK would have such a historic basketball culture if they never won.
We don't have to have the greatest coach in the land to win we just need someone who can inspire, evaluate talent and develop players and brownell is not that coach. All the complaining about recruits and attendance will be fixed if we could just win. Look at our football program. Before dabo we were an uninspired program. We could land a decent recruit every now and then but nothing like we are now after a few winning seasons. And people forget before 2011 our football attendance was horrible. I remember all the complaints about no one showing up to the games the students not being there the excuses of to many out of state and foreign students who didn't care about football and parking was why people didn't wanna come to DV. Now the place is rocking every Saturday. Look at last year once we won a few decent games little john had great attendance, fans were pumped up the team was pumped up. If we could just win for 2 seasons the program would quickly start turning around.
There are way to many players that are good at basketball that do not get offers from the elite schools to say we can not find enough talent to win.
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110%er [7107]
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Gotten a lot out of Hall??
Dec 20, 2014, 11:17 AM
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The majority of our problems in hoops start at point guard. This is the QB of a basketball team, and that position has been disaster for years. Until Brownell can field a competent point guard, our offensive rotation will not improve. I'm afraid that will be his downfall. When your point guard often has more turnovers than points/assists, you aren't gonna win.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: Gotten a lot out of Hall??
Dec 20, 2014, 12:25 PM
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Besides last game, Hall averaged 20 PPG against arkansas and auburn.
Brownell is awesome X's and O's. And we've got some good young talent (Blossomgame, Grantham, Djitte, Rooks, Devoe) and some guys coming in that could be good (Hudson and Holmes, both point guards). It may not seem like it right now, but this program will continue to improve.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Gotten a lot out of Hall??
Dec 20, 2014, 12:30 PM
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He isn't a good X and Os coach.
He is a good defensive coach, but this is his fifth year and we still struggle offensively. We haven't had a guy he has recruited shoot over 37% from 3. The last two years we were in the 300s in PPG. Scoring is too much of a struggle for him to be called a good coach.
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Orange Blooded [3728]
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THIS!***
Dec 20, 2014, 9:13 PM
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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We've regressed this year as opposed to improving after
Dec 20, 2014, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Gotten a lot out of Hall?? ] |
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losing just one player. I have not seen anything from Djitte, Rooks, and Devoe that would make me think they are going to be good. They may be, but I haven't seen the indicators. Granthem looks good, but he's a freshman. Blossomgame is shooting 13.6% from three and only 63% from the free throw line. Good slasher, but not a shooter. Nnoko and Roper have regressed.
Brownell's offense requires shooters and we just don't have any after 5 years.
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110%er [7107]
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What is is scoring average for his career?
Dec 20, 2014, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Gotten a lot out of Hall?? ] |
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I bet it's nowhere near 20. What is is assist avg per game? Turnovers per game?
He's not a good point guard. We need a real point guard and some guys who can consistently shoot a better field goal % than Gardner Webb.
I've always supported Brownell, but I think his time is running out. One more year after this. If we don't have a real point guard and some tangible improvement by then, time to move on.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: What is is scoring average for his career?
Dec 20, 2014, 3:25 PM
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Hall with a 101 degree temperature was better than I expected. This was a bad night for him to be sick. And next year with Hudson and Holmes the Tigers will be solid at point and Roper can go to his natural 2 guard spot.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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I don't understand why Roper hasn't improved his ball
Dec 20, 2014, 4:42 PM
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handling since he's been here. It was obvious his freshman year he needed to.
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Orange Blooded [3375]
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Re: What is is scoring average for his career?
Dec 20, 2014, 6:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is is scoring average for his career? ] |
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Roper needs to improve his shooting if he's going to play the 2 guard. After yesterday 15.8% from 3 pt range and 26.5% overall.
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Legend [16213]
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Part of it is certainly frustration from fans who were used
Dec 20, 2014, 11:28 AM
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to Parnell's teams making annual trips to the NCAA tourney - a rarity for Clemson considering our basketball history but a misleading stat in regards to the one trick pony scheme that would get consistently exposed by tournament coaches.
I still think this team has the potential to play above .500 ball in the league, though concerned that we really have only two guys that can play underneath in Nnoko and Djitte, and each is a foul machine when put to the test. The wheels fell off last night one minute into the 2nd half when together they had accumulated 7 fouls between them. An aggressive strategy based on taking our bigs out like that is going to really challenge us the rest of the year.
We're not as bad as we've looked at times this season, but we're not as good as the level I'd hoped to see us at either. Roper's fall off in ballhandling and overall production is concerning and hard to figure out. And Rod Hall, unfortunately, is not the innate leader that he needs to be. The team seems to play to his level - in the years prior he's had someone on the team to inspire him - now it's up to Hall to inspire Hall and it's just not quite there.
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Walk-On [121]
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Re: Part of it is certainly frustration from fans who were used
Dec 20, 2014, 9:00 PM
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Parnell? Where did he coach? Do you mean Bill Parcells? Stupid post... Do it right, or don't post
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Is this a joke?
Dec 20, 2014, 11:38 AM
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or do you just not care about basketball?
Don't see any haters. Just a lot of disappointment at where we are 5 years into Coach Brownell's tenure. I think it is safe to say that we are not a very good team this year and we lose two starters from this team. Too many guys on the bench and some that start that just aren't good players at this level.
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All-TigerNet [13035]
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The roster is entirely his responsibility at this point.
Dec 20, 2014, 12:07 PM
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All of the Purnell guys are gone, this is 100% Brownell's team.
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Legend [17220]
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No hate at all ... Just resignation that BB has some issues
Dec 20, 2014, 12:07 PM
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Regarding ..
Rebounding
Consistent scoring
Defensive lapses
Motivation and intensity
Other than that he is OK.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 12:12 PM
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It is years of frustration. Clemson isn't the easiest to win at, but it isn't that hard. The talent level has significantly dropped since when he started here. We also changed from a successful system to one that requires more basketball talent. Brownell just got an extension which is insanely frustrating to someone like myself. I guess it helps with recruiting and saying he will be here 4 years, school believes in him, etc. but he has won 3 NIT games and nothing else. However, if we fire him he then gets $5,000,000. That is an insane buyout for someone who cannot win.
The team may get better during the year, which is all well and good, but 4 losses in OOC means we cannot sniff the NCAA Tournament anymore. He has to cut out the early season losses. The formula to winning here is win the OOC and go .500 in the ACC which is not terribly difficult. We have struggled on offense his whole time here which eliminates all margin for error because an off night offensively means we score in the 40s or an off night on defense means we have to score in the 70s which we cannot do.
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Legend [17220]
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Point - good post.
Dec 20, 2014, 12:16 PM
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Candidly little if any evidence suggesting something good on the horizon.
Hopeful just because no use being consumed by despair.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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All-TigerNet [10563]
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Re: Bottom line - he can't recruit well enough.
Dec 20, 2014, 3:27 PM
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Sadly this is it.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate. ] |
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He won an NCAA Tournament game for the first time in 15 years. That should count for something, but I'm sure you'll say it was only because Purnell's players were so awesome.
You also said going .500 in the ACC isn't that hard. LOL get out
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Some of these people have no clue and only show up after a
Dec 20, 2014, 11:32 PM
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loss. Do you ever see them after a win? Nope.
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Legend [17577]
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I'm surprised they haven't blamed Cole for last night's loss***
Dec 20, 2014, 12:15 PM
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Asst Coach [702]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 12:18 PM
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People don't reward shamming. All all those transfers scream problem . I think he is shamming this year.
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Team Captain [487]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 21, 2014, 8:38 AM
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Brownell teams play hard, which seems to make the fan base happy. Brownell gets intense with his players, and refs, which seems to make the fan base even happier. There is also some feeling that he is some sort of basketball genius, that with just a little more time to get his players, that things will turn. But here is the truthful downside. His players are here. And the program is nowhere close to the program he took over. Now is Clemson ever really going to challenge the power programs in the league? No. But they should be better than they are. Two years ago, playing USC was counted as a sure win. Not so much anymore after Friday night. The program is stuck in the mud. Now everyone seems to like Brownell. And many seem to concede that there is a ceiling on how good basketball can be at Clemson. With that being said, maybe folks are satisfied to be a constant NIT participant, and maybe get lucky to slip into the NCAA every four, or five, years and get your teeth kicked in with an early round exit. Now if you think Clemson can do better, maybe Brownell is your guy. If not, then I suppose a lot of money on improvements to facilities is just being wasted if they follow the same course they are on now. Of course, that could change. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Brownell jumped ship on his own at the first opportunity. In fact, the rumor mill was pretty strong about a year and a half ago that he tried to get the Ball State job.
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Walk-On [130]
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Failed to live up to post OP hype
Dec 20, 2014, 12:26 PM
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Lots of folks got all butt hurt when OP left for DePaul. After the success he had here at Clemson, people were saying he was a bum because he didn't leave the right way. In comes BB and he's a "real" coach because he does the Xs and Os that people thought OP didn't know or couldn't do in a game. If you go back the very beginning, BB didn't do too much to dispute the notion that he was going to come in here and do things the right way. Fast forward to BB getting schooled yesterday by Frank Martin, someone who actually knows the value of making adjustments at the half, and are we really better off now than we were under OP?
I think that's the frustration for some of us out here. It doesn't matter what BB did at his last school or what OP is doing at DePaul. It's the level of our program now with BB compared to where it was with OP.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Sad thing is Frank Martin is terrible strategically...
Dec 20, 2014, 12:44 PM
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All Martin can do is pay players to come to where he is coaching.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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They definitely looked to be the better coached team last
Dec 20, 2014, 1:04 PM
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night.
By a long shot.
You may really think that or you may just dislike him as I do, but last night did not support the argument that he is terrible strategically.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Not that hard to look good against a coach...
Dec 20, 2014, 3:23 PM
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that refuses to get a real PG for a four year period, and has an offensive system where players just stand around and lob up a shot near the end of the shot clock. I've seen Frank Martin coached teams since he was at KSU, the guy is not an X's and O's coach. He knows how to get players paid to attend the high school and colleges where he coaches at.
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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Brad already has one more NCAA win than OP ever did...
Dec 21, 2014, 10:20 PM
[ in reply to Failed to live up to post OP hype ] |
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and all things considered, last year was about as good as any of Pernell's. We won 10 ACC games, which OP did once in his seven years. Recruiting is definitely the shortcoming so far, but in basketball two really good players and decent role players can take you a long way. There is no doubt, to be successful, Brownell's recruiting, and retention, has to improve.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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You're answering yourself....
Dec 20, 2014, 12:39 PM
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Too many players transferring yearly, no true point guard, was supposed to coach offense better than Purnell, but under Brownell we have seen too much offensive futility.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: I don't get all the Brownell hate.
Dec 20, 2014, 3:13 PM
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Question????????? Other than McDaniels who turned pro, why did the other guys transfer out of the program when it appears several of them SHOULD be starting for us this year.....Go Tigers!!!!!
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All-Pro [693]
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Out of those transfers
Dec 20, 2014, 7:20 PM
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Who would actually make a difference this year though? I don't think we lost anything in losing those guys, what had they done before leaving?
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110%er [6095]
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Expect to go to NCAA 1 out every 5 years. Should have
Dec 20, 2014, 9:01 PM
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gone last year. I am willing to give him 2-3 more years, but most schools would not do that. I think he is a decent coach, runs a clean program but has a hard time recruiting.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Expect to go to NCAA 1 out every 5 years. Should have
Dec 21, 2014, 5:41 PM
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Look at Clemson's basketball history. Who has recuited successfully over time? We have the rep. of being a football school that doesn't care about basketball. I don't know how we can change that, but a big name coach is not going to come to Clemson anytime soon.
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Orange Blooded [2189]
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To Your Point. . .
Dec 21, 2014, 7:23 AM
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Other than McDaniel leaving for the NBA, why have the others felt it fitting to leave the program creating the lack of depth? Also, with the exception of last year, why has each year gotten progressively worse under Brownell since his arrival?
I've given him a chance, but have to admit I really questioned this hire when TDP made it. There was nothing of substance to show that he could do what Barnes and Purnell did here. And the fact that those two could make Clemson competitive, shows 1) that it can be done, and 2) it can be done with the currently facilities.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: To Your Point. . .
Dec 21, 2014, 5:42 PM
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Simple. Players today don't want to play defense. They want to shoot 3s and dunk
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Commissioner [905]
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When do we get the recruits?
Dec 21, 2014, 6:52 PM
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I like Brownell. I support him. But, WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET THE RECRUITS? This is year 4 or 5 of his tenure, right? I am concerned it is not going to happen. Hopefully the 2 commits we have are that good but I am skeptical. I have seen too many years of heartache in basketball not be. We desperately need the equivalent of a James Davis or a Spiller or a Watkins, and soon, or we are going to be mired in mediocrity for years to come due to lack of offense. Hopefully the new improved arena is going to help but I have doubts and the competition only gets tougher with ND, Louisville, etc.
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All-TigerNet [10901]
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He probably should get Jeff Scott to be recruiting co-ordina
Dec 21, 2014, 10:26 PM
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tor
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CU Guru [1146]
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Re: When do we get the recruits?
Dec 22, 2014, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to When do we get the recruits? ] |
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In regards to the recruits, can't we all agree that Grantham and Blossomgame are pretty decent players? And they're only first or second year guys. That's solid recruiting, IMO. Hopefully it continues.
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