|
Replies: 27
| visibility 3,383
|
CU Guru [1718]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/30/02
|
FFRF responds to Dabo's statement
Apr 23, 2014, 11:35 PM
|
|
This could go on forever...is Dabo now going to respond to their response of his response?
FFRF to Clemson coach: Take responsibility
In response to a Freedom From Religion Foundation complaint about serious constitutional violations within the Clemson University football program in South Carolina, Coach Dabo Swinney issued a statement today.
After an investigation, FFRF sent a complaint April 10 about religious entanglements in the program. Swinney's prepared statement began, “Over the past week or two, there has been a lot of discussion of my faith.” The full statement can be read here.
FFRF, in a statement of its own, calls on the coach to take responsibility for his conduct and make changes to the program:
"Coach Dabo Swinney’s prepared statement does not address the fundamental constitutional problem. While it is reassuring to hear that players of any faith or no faith are welcome to play football at Clemson, public school coaches also must not endorse or advance religion. His religion is not the issue; it is his proselytizing in a public university football program. It is a bedrock constitutional principle that government employees cannot abuse their position to advance their religion. Unfortunately, the current climate of entanglement between the football program and religion sends a message of inclusion of fundamentalist Christian football players while excluding all others.
"University records reveal that Clemson coaches are intimately involved in team bible studies, church services and other religious activities. Clemson University needs to take corrective action and ensure that coaches are not violating the Constitution. As it stands, the coach has failed to take responsibility for promoting Christianity as part of the football program and failed to state what, if any, corrective action he will take."
The coach says in his statement that players "must be good citizens." FFRF reminds him that good citizens obey the law — in this case the Constitution, the highest law of the land.
|
|
|
|
 |
Legend [19901]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16718
Joined: 11/28/00
|
TNET reminds FFRF.......We Too Deep!!!
Apr 23, 2014, 11:56 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1105]
TigerPulse: 83%
Posts: 1354
Joined: 2/20/11
|
What stands out most in their statement...
Apr 24, 2014, 12:19 AM
|
|
is no threat of a lawsuit and no reference to specific complaints made by anyone involved with the program. Basically a white flag in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16363
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Yep, that's them getting the last word in ... dead issue now***
Apr 24, 2014, 6:54 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51531]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43078
Joined: 8/10/04
|
My mom is a public school teacher.
Apr 24, 2014, 6:25 AM
|
|
She goes to church services. Guess I should get ready for a lawsuit against my family.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58411]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46322
Joined: 4/23/00
|
I doubt it, but if she has had her pastor come into her
Apr 24, 2014, 7:46 AM
|
|
classroom to baptize a student, then you probably should expect some repercussions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4504]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9112
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Yea, clear the school of any mention of God and you can
Apr 24, 2014, 12:33 PM
|
|
see how that has worked out. Now we are seeing the reprcussions as you mention over and over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58411]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46322
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Would you want the Islamic version of God, the Hindu
Apr 24, 2014, 2:37 PM
|
|
version, the Satanic version, etc. "in schools"? I don't, but that's exactly what you will have. I would rather have it left out altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3049]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2787
Joined: 9/11/02
|
Interesting that they did not acknowledge the University's
Apr 24, 2014, 6:51 AM
|
|
response...
Why respond only to CDS? What a bunch of loosers!
(SMH my head)
Message was edited by: laid-backtiger® to include the proper TNet spelling of looser and to include proper acronym usage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Starter [384]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 434
Joined: 2/2/01
|
FFRF has no case and they know it
Apr 24, 2014, 7:31 AM
|
|
"...public school coaches also must not endorse or advance religion"
That's not what the first amendment states. It states that the people are guaranteed from OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. People do NOT have the right of freedom FROM religion. It is a fallacy by the original law.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The specifics of case law precedent has been a moving target according to the whim of the day over the years. The bottom line is that FFRF has no case as they have no standing in SC (no complainant to defend). Without a plaintiff, the case would be dismissed. They know they have lost.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Enthusiast [110]
TigerPulse: 14%
Posts: 374
Joined: 11/14/13
|
Re: FFRF has no case and they know it
Apr 24, 2014, 7:36 AM
|
|
It is not about making a case, it is about raising awareness. They said plainly in the first statement theybwere not out for a lawsuit or his head.
IMO there will be modifications made but they will be subtle and not made public as to not draw attention to themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4504]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9112
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Dream on Dr. Dabo will do what he has been doing because
Apr 24, 2014, 12:35 PM
|
|
he isn't changing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4747]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6973
Joined: 1/24/07
|
Re: FFRF has no case and they know it
Apr 24, 2014, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to FFRF has no case and they know it ] |
|
Freedom of religikn implies freedom from religions as well. As a Christian (assuming you are one), do you want Muslims to have prayer at school? Do you think your children should have the right to eat beef even though Hindus believe cows are sacred? You are free FROM those religions, even though you have one as well. Atheists would simply like the same favor in return - to be free from your religion and all others within the government.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4747]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6973
Joined: 1/24/07
|
Re: FFRF has no case and they know it
Apr 24, 2014, 12:16 PM
|
|
Ignore spelling mistakes, on my phone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [96834]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 29210
Joined: 9/14/05
|
Wrong again. Would you consider this "freedom FROM
Apr 24, 2014, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: FFRF has no case and they know it ] |
|
religion"?
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2009/08/29/muslim-footbaths-on-the-march/
By the way, if I lived in India, I would expect that my children would not have the right to eat beef, as India is a mostly Hindu country. But guess what? We're not in India, we're in the United States.
You're never going to be totally free from things that offend you. As an examaple, cigarette smoke offends me. Sometimes I have to put up with it, and all the biching and moaning in the world isn't going to change things.
If Christians bother you athiests so much, why don't you all move to some remote part of Alaska and worship (or don't worship) as you please?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4747]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6973
Joined: 1/24/07
|
Re: Wrong again. Would you consider this "freedom FROM
Apr 24, 2014, 7:58 PM
|
|
Christians in general don't bother us. The ones that think they are above the law and try to force their religion into the government are the ones we take exception to.
You keep bringing up the footbaths thing like it's the same thing. It isn't. Those aren't JUST for Muslims. I'll concede that they put them there because there is a large Muslim population at that school, but no one is being forced to use them and they are not exclusively for Muslims. If the school said that only Muslim students were allowed to use them, or had faculty forcing students to use them, then we'd have a problem. A service made available is not the same thing as coercion.
I'm well aware that there will be things that offend me, and I can't do anything about it. Racism and homophobia will always exist, but people have the right to hold those opinions. They don't, however, have the right to force them into law. Similarly, you don't have the right to force school children to say the Lord's Prayer before class or have Bible study everyday.
Whatever. Talking to you about this subject is like talking to a wall. No matter how many times someone explains our position, you go on your merry way saying "Atheists just want to stamp out all religion! Waa waa waa."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [96834]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 29210
Joined: 9/14/05
|
When you say "the law", do you mean the "the law" as it
Apr 24, 2014, 9:11 PM
|
|
was originally created, or "the law" as athiests have interpreted it?
The reason that I bring up the footbaths is that the state of Michigan paid to have them installed...a violation of the separation of church and state, right?
Athiests seem offended at the mere mention of God's name anywhere outside the doors of a church. And since the majority of Americans would classify themselves as Christians, I guess there are going to be a lot of offended athiests.
For whatever reason, athiests always seem to be angry. Why is that? Maybe, deep down, they know the truth?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [884]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 694
Joined: 8/8/02
|
Re: FFRF responds to Dabo's statement
Apr 24, 2014, 7:37 AM
|
|
The Constitution says no such thing. Bedrock principle? Wow. Stop pushing your desired interpretations as hard core facts FFRF.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [241]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 284
Joined: 12/2/08
|
Re: FFRF responds to Dabo's statement
Apr 24, 2014, 7:50 AM
|
|
These people are so full of crap!! This entire deal is absolutely ridiculous! Clemson University better continue to stand strong behind Dabo and so should Tiger Nation! Let's give them the fight of their lives - sick of their bull crap!
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5330]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9959
Joined: 5/28/02
|
Dabo should respond with meaningful, well thought response
Apr 24, 2014, 7:57 AM
|
|
like.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
|
The only "constitutional problem" is that they haven't read
Apr 24, 2014, 8:01 AM
|
|
it, or are too stupid to understand it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1893]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2673
Joined: 7/22/99
|
Exactly!! LOL.***
Apr 24, 2014, 8:24 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
|
Yeah, but for some reason I'm not LOLing.***
Apr 24, 2014, 8:57 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19201]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16712
Joined: 9/2/08
|
Idiots who think their beliefs are more important or more
Apr 24, 2014, 9:23 AM
|
|
"constitutional" than Dabo's beliefs. These people are not model "citizens."
https://www.facebook.com/ISupportDabo
Message was edited by: AThomas®
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [49613]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30357
Joined: 12/10/98
|
It's like arguing with a Capon ....***
Apr 24, 2014, 9:23 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4504]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9112
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Can't fix stupid.***
Apr 24, 2014, 12:27 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8244]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7565
Joined: 1/1/11
|
Re: FFRF responds to Dabo's statement
Apr 24, 2014, 12:34 PM
|
|
Not only do they not know whats written in the United States Constitution they over-looked what Dabo said, he said Clemson & Coaches would continue to do what they have always done
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [61796]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 39636
Joined: 12/16/01
|
Deer FFRF,
Apr 24, 2014, 12:36 PM
|
|
I answer to God's law first and foremost. Then to the "law of the land". You are last on the list of people I will follow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 27
| visibility 3,383
|
|
|
50
