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110%er [6153]
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The Constitution was meant to guard against persecution, not
Apr 19, 2014, 1:40 PM
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provide fodder for some frivolous issue of philosophical disagreement.
When the founding fathers were drafting our Constitution, we were not all that far removed from an era when religious questions (in supposedly civilized nations) were still settled on the rack or the burning stake.
Far from simply having their feelings hurt, people were being forced into exile and frequently killed for their religious beliefs.
How all this has morphed into a situation in which simply expressing one's beliefs and emulating an admirable set of core values is called into question on a Constitutional basis with the threat of legal action is hard to understand.
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110%er [5093]
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Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 1:51 PM
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Persecutes every other religion?
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 1:58 PM
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No. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. The freedom of religion this country provides is the freedom of gov't persecution. In other words, the Christian culture IS the culture ALREADY established.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 3:13 PM
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No it wasn't. The founders were deists who envisioned a secular government. Stop parroting the BS you hear on Fox News.
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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And stop parroting the BS you hear on MSNBC***
Apr 19, 2014, 3:24 PM
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: And stop parroting the BS you hear on MSNBC***
Apr 19, 2014, 6:39 PM
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Don't watch either channel, but thanks for playing.
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MVP [503]
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Re: And stop parroting the BS you hear on MSNBC***
Apr 19, 2014, 10:57 PM
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Then how do you know he was parroting Fox News???
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CU Medallion [50635]
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Re: And stop parroting the BS you hear on MSNBC***
Apr 19, 2014, 11:00 PM
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 4:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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and the money you use to buy things says "In WHO we trust"? And in an song of the country "WHO sheds his grace on thee"? And in the pledge of allegiance of THIS country, we are "one nation, under WHO"....
So question, should people stop saying the pledge of allegiance before games now too...because God is mentioned in it?? Should we quit buying tickets and concessions because the notes you use to pay them have God printed or stamped on them??
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 6:42 PM
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In God We Trust was put on the money in the 1950s, the same time that Under God was put in the pledge of allegiance. The founding fathers had nothing to do with it, nor did they write God Bless America, which isn't even endorsed by our government and was written by Irving Berlin, an atheist.
I don't really care if people say the pledge, so long as I'm not required to do so. The Supreme Court has stated that it isn't unconstitutional to have God on our money (although considering Jesus' views on it, you'd think Christians would be against it). While I may disagree with the Court, I'm not going to pitch a fit about it.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 6:44 PM
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Just realized you were talking about America the Beautiful, not God Bless America. Either way, it isn't our national anthem so I don't know what it has to do with the discussion.
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Orange Blooded [4265]
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Btw, Irving Berlin was not an atheist...hth...
Apr 19, 2014, 7:42 PM
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#knowthefacts
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Orange Blooded [4674]
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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not at all. it is not required to play, therefore it is not aproblem. What about athiests forcing their belief system on the rest of us?
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110%er [6937]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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he may be one of the millions that are here illegally...***
Apr 19, 2014, 2:08 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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He didn't swim the river to get here then...
Apr 19, 2014, 2:19 PM
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cause the messicans I know are Catholic.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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If you do you might want to move to India or Iran.
Apr 19, 2014, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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This country was founded on Judeo Christian beliefs and it's going to stay that way regardless of how long or loud you babies whine.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 2:19 PM
[ in reply to Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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ABSOLUTELY NOT!! we are not muslims that HATE other religions and ask that Christians be KILLED and if they do kill a Christian then when the get to heaven they get 72 VIRGINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!that sure is not the Christian way
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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That's right.
Apr 19, 2014, 2:20 PM
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We don't want to die hurting others and we want our virgins right now!
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110%er [5093]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: You're persecuting islam with these comments
Apr 19, 2014, 2:24 PM
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they have worked hard to EARN EVERY WORD and they deserve everything I have said!
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Moe told them to do it!***
Apr 19, 2014, 2:27 PM
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Orange Blooded [2680]
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Re: You're persecuting islam with these comments
Apr 19, 2014, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to You're persecuting islam with these comments ] |
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Classof09, with all due respect, you don't have a clue about what you are espousing in this forum. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, ......
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110%er [6153]
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When the definition of "persecution" has come to mean
Apr 19, 2014, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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simply rubbing someone the wrong way or hurting someone's feelings rather than exiling them, torturing them, or killing them, then I suppose your argument might have merit.
Do you honestly think anything that is going on at Clemson falls under the real definition of "persecution"?
I realize you are on this forum mainly to stir the pot and you've latched on to this controversy as a means to your end, but can you be honest enough to admit that no genuine "persecution" is involved in the allegations of the FFRF?
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110%er [5093]
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The consensus on this forum seemed to
Apr 19, 2014, 2:46 PM
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to be that Christianity was being persecuted by the FFR asking Clemson to comply with the constitution.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing over semantics.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Hot dog!***
Apr 19, 2014, 2:49 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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LOL ... Your sole purpose here is to waste breath arguing!
Apr 19, 2014, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to The consensus on this forum seemed to ] |
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Why not argue semantics?
NO!!! ... the consensus here has not been that "Christianity" is being persecuted.
The consensus has been that the Clemson coaching staff in general and the head coach in particular, are being unjustly criticized by an outside group with an agenda.
Because as a fan of our rival,your personal agenda is starting trouble on Tigernet, you have hopped on this controversy with both feet.
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110%er [5093]
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Whatever helps you feel that your argument
Apr 19, 2014, 3:13 PM
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isn't absurd.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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you are convinced clemson is violating the constitution
Apr 19, 2014, 3:15 PM
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we are not
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Orange Blooded [2429]
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Re: you are convinced clemson is violating the constitution
Apr 19, 2014, 3:17 PM
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Why do we need to follow the constitution anyway, our president doesn't.
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110%er [5093]
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CU Medallion [57087]
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Your hope that Clemson is sued says it all.***
Apr 19, 2014, 4:18 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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### ... you wasted another breath arguing ...
Apr 19, 2014, 3:19 PM
[ in reply to Whatever helps you feel that your argument ] |
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Sadly, you just can't help yourself.
Here's the truth.
You would not waste a moment on this issue if it did not involve Clemson athletics. And you wouldn't waste a moment on this forum if you weren't allowed to stir things up.
It's obvious you're here strictly to fan the flames when the opportunity arises.
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110%er [5093]
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When you make up your own reality
Apr 19, 2014, 3:22 PM
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it's impossible for me to have a discussion with you.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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And yet you refuse to quit trying .. 10-4 ...***
Apr 19, 2014, 5:05 PM
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110%er [6937]
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Orange Blooded [2680]
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Re: The consensus on this forum seemed to
Apr 19, 2014, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to The consensus on this forum seemed to ] |
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That is what liberals always do - stir the pot and accuse everyone else of insensitivity and depart the discussion as all knowing people superior to those with differing views. Let me ask you a question - If a person lives a good life and adheres to the Ten Commandments without every mentioning God, is that okay with you and the Constitution? Could a person not be accused of espousing Christianity because those are certainly Christian beliefs. Tell me what the Constitution says in the 1st Amendment and not all of the bastardization that has occurred by lawyers and judges tweeking it all the time. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, etc. etc. Where is the violation? Lastly, I agree, you shouldn't "waste your time arguing over semantics", your mind is closed to other thought processes, and that is fine, it is your right!!!
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110%er [5093]
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No one is saying you can't be a christian.
Apr 19, 2014, 4:58 PM
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I am a christian as well.
What I'm saying is a public official should not be creating a culture of Christianity over people he supervises. That is unconstitutional.
Can you imagine how miserable it would be if someone was trying to covert you Islam? I know I wouldn't enjoy that.
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Hall of Famer [24208]
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CU Medallion [51531]
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Re: Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture
Apr 19, 2014, 5:01 PM
[ in reply to Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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Coot, first your opinions, statements, and questions aren't valid here.
Second, since your ### is obsessed with Clemson, show me one instance where someone has been "persecuted" by the culture at MY university.
Lastly, go #### yourself.
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Legend [16251]
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Yes. I not agree.
Apr 19, 2014, 6:58 PM
[ in reply to Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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It sounds as if you are from the spoiled generation beholden to participation trophies - rewarding failure instead of offering that golden opportunity to learn from mistakes due to the pain that goes with it, and the inherent human desire to avoid similar situations in the future. I say this because of your incessant whining and your stated idea of what "persecution" means.
Next thing we're likely to hear from you is a constitutional reference to why your mother should be legally forbidden from not buying you ice cream - cruel and unusual punishment.
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110%er [7831]
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110%er [5093]
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No***
Apr 19, 2014, 11:01 PM
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CU Guru [1138]
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I dont think you know what persecute means. Persecute is
Apr 20, 2014, 12:34 AM
[ in reply to Do you not agree that establishing a christian culture ] |
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an action verb against others, passively practicing your own religion, regardless of which one it is, is not persecuting others.
That comment is just lame.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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stare decisis...
Apr 19, 2014, 2:02 PM
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if you understand the concept, the difference between edict & dictum, then you'll better understand how "we the people" found ourselves here.
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110%er [6153]
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Instead of "hard to understand", suppose I should have said
Apr 19, 2014, 2:25 PM
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"hard to accept."
I don't have a clue what your diagram means, but I googled the term stare decisis and as far as I can tell, it simply means that because other's have interpreted the Constitution in a certain way, the precedent requires that we continue to honor that interpretation.
At least until enough of "we the people" decide to amend it.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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if A is the original boundaries of the constitution, B - F
Apr 19, 2014, 2:32 PM
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being cases which originally touched on the constitution then touched on the following precedent, what we have is interpretations outside of the original intent & boundaries of the founding fathers.
that is how we found ourselves here, where persecution is someone feeling uncomfortable because "under God" is in the pledge of allegiance.
never intended that way.
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Orange Blooded [2680]
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Re: stare decisis...
Apr 19, 2014, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to stare decisis... ] |
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stare decisis is an absolutely perfect term to describe where we are with this discussion.
Good post!!!
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Freedom of religion should not be confused with
Apr 19, 2014, 10:17 PM
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freedom from religion - like these idiots say.
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All-In [27366]
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So what!?
Apr 20, 2014, 8:36 AM
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Our empire hasn't been bothered with the constitution in for generations.
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