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Replies: 74
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:29 AM
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These dudes and dudettes from Wisconsin have a pretty solid argument. I think most football players know what kind of religious atmosphere they are signing up for when they commit and most probably choose to play for CDS because of his faith. That's beside the point and the law is the law. As innocent as the intentions are there is the chance that it alienates some of the members of the team.
I love Dabo but just looking at the facts, I think changes are going to have to be made. And I don't think it will be that drastic. No more t-shirts with bible verses for motivation. No more organized optional bible study groups. Basically no more organized Christian influences.
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Orange Blooded [3427]
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^President of FFRF, is that you?***
Apr 18, 2014, 12:31 AM
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110%er [5977]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:39 AM
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What Coach Swinney is doing isn't against the law.
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:43 AM
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Would it be against the law for a school teacher to take time out of class to pray towards Mecca? Organizing religious events is against the law for public employees.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 9:20 AM
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No, if said teacher forced the class to join then she/he would be breaking the law.
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All-Conference [422]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: This ain't going to be popular ] |
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There is a huge difference between elementary and high school "kids" (under 18) and college "adults" (18+). In an elementary school it would be considered a form of coercion for a teacher to pray with the class, but once they become adults the rules change as they can defend their beliefs (everything Dabo and James Trapp is completely voluntary, though not according to the FFRF...).
The purpose of the Establishment Clause is to prevent the federal government from showing religious favoritism, like in England. It does not mean that any display of religion on government property or by government officials is unconstitutional.
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CU Guru [1535]
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Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:00 AM
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If I'm a player who isn't a practicing Christian, and I see my teammates headed off to prayer meetings, baptisms, or church services with my head coach, how am I supposed to feel?
Not for one second do I think Dabo is holding anything against players who don't believe as he does. But if I'm a kid on the team, how I do KNOW that for sure? And no coach should put one of his players in the position of having to ask those questions.
I love Dabo, and he's great for the university and the young men that play for him. He won't lose anything by just backing off a bit.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:06 AM
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How did you feel when you friends at school went to band practice but you had absolutely no desire to join the band, so you didn't follow them or sign up? We're you still on for Friday night? Were you still close friends?
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Head Coach [757]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:09 AM
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Did this band play only religious Christian music?
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:25 AM
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No, they only played Styx....did you join or not?
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:37 AM
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Yeah if they only played Christian music they would probably suck.
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 1:38 AM
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You won't find any disagreement with me there. I don't know how it survives as an industry.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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The fastest growing part of the music industry.***
Apr 18, 2014, 8:47 AM
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Heisman Winner [134477]
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All-In [32653]
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Only decent new music out there - musical with talent &
Apr 18, 2014, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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creativity and lyrics with thought & sensibility.
Incredibly encouraging, joy-filled genre of music. The rest - eh, not so much any more.
NeedtoBreathe just came out with a new album Tuesday - and Clemson area boys. #2 new album this week on iTunes.
Check it out - really good stuff - and their last one was awesome, too.
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Freshman [3]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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I'm sure he felt just fine, because people do not get all up in arms if you are in the band or not, unlike religion.
Case in point - The hordes of people getting upset over this FFRF.
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Legend [16058]
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Orange Blooded [2702]
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Proof that non-Christians aren't heathens***
Apr 18, 2014, 1:34 AM
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110%er [5093]
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I agree. I believe it's actually the 14th Amendment
Apr 18, 2014, 6:50 AM
[ in reply to Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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that is the greater issue here even though all the focus is on the first amendment.
When you have an agent of the state openly promoting one religion, it's nearly impossible to have an equal protection of the laws.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I agree. I believe it's actually the 14th Amendment
Apr 18, 2014, 9:22 AM
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Might want to read the 14th again. No law has been made abridging religious rights. HTH
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Is your first paragraph suppose to be taken serious???????
Apr 18, 2014, 8:46 AM
[ in reply to Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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Unless you are a child under 12 that doesn't need to be left alone at home then what is your problem? It is none of your business that Dabo and others are expressing their Christian faith just like it is nobody in Wisconsin's business either. That is their right just like it is your right to not go. Then EVERYBODY has their right of choice. Pretty simple to me.
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Exactly!***
Apr 18, 2014, 11:30 AM
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110%er [6912]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 18, 2014, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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Oh no!!! Someone might be offended?! I hope that at some point in their life they can get over the mental scars of being offended or feeling uncomfortable because we can't have a society where people get their feelings hurt
Christians largely ignore the atheist ramblings for the most part and when that 1% of the population doesn't get their way, they use the only tactic they know. Scream louder than their opposition and smear them
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook.
Apr 19, 2014, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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The laws are now supposed to protect people's "feelings"? OMG is this country going downhill fast.
The generation of participation trophies must be coming into power.
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110%er [7831]
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You're supposed to feel like the vegetarian
Apr 19, 2014, 10:57 PM
[ in reply to Agreed. And it's the alienation thing that people overlook. ] |
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When we go put to have steaks.... Either tag along and keep your mouth shut or suck it up, be an adult and stay the #### home.
This is the problem with America.... Everyone gets a trophy so no ones feelings are hurt
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Orange Blooded [4705]
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Marquez North’s father had complained about the religious
Apr 18, 2014, 1:24 AM
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overtones in the program. Most football programs in the South have players and coaches who participate in religious activities on and off the field.
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Orange Blooded [4412]
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Good grief***
Apr 18, 2014, 2:22 AM
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 3:07 AM
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So as a believer in God, or a god, or in gods: would it be possible to imagine a student athlete to feel alienated by an atheist coach who refused to ever pray, speak about God, reference the validity of belief in God, etc... There needs to be a legal distinction made for atheist groups as being the same as religious organizations because of their inherent embrace of philosophical naturalism and this reluctance to accept or observe anything supernatural. It is idiotic to believe that by compartmentalizations ones particular worldview from ones vocational responsibilities is actually profitable, responsible, or even possible. It is ones' worldview that determines how one acts period. The fact that there is even the assumption that members of society should hide their faith on the job and in the community is ridiculous and proof of the success of atheistic and relativistic ideology. Some of you need to wake up.
There without question needs to be regulation of supposed manipulation in the workplace based on religious beliefs, but to believe it is right to eliminate religious belief and practice from the workplace is simply stupid and plays right into the hands and motives of secularists.
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All-Conference [409]
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Ok, I'll bite...
Apr 18, 2014, 3:59 AM
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Your analogy of an atheist coach isn't accurate. Players wouldn't be prohibited from speaking about religion -- that isn't the issue.
Imagine a situation where you're a Christian, and your lifelong dream is to be recruited to play the sport you're good at. You finally get recruited, but to a team where the entire team is Muslim but you.
You go to practice to play football, and the coach has the players face Mecca and pray (if they want to -- but since everyone is already Muslim...), and partake in other customs that you yourself are unfamiliar with and find strange. All you want to do is play football. That's why you're there.
If you wanted to practice your relgion, you'd go to a church on at least on your own personal time, but not at work, where you have a job to do. A job where you receive taxpayer money and can force (or at least put great pressure) on your underlings to participate or else become an outcast.
Not having team prayer isn't 'atheistic' in nature -- it's nothing. Your analogy would only be correct if you said the atheist coach had a "team time" where he led the team in discussing why god isn't real, and how intelligent and open minded atheists are.
That wouldn't be very fair to a player of faith, now would it? Which is why that situation ALSO wouldn't be allowed. It's hard to imagine the shoe on the other foot sometimes.
I appreciate the effort you put forth in posting that reply, but I whole heartedly disagree with you.
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: Ok, I'll bite...
Apr 18, 2014, 4:25 AM
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And it's fine if you disagree. That's one of the things that makes this a great country, but you cast the Clemson program in an inaccurate light. We love the fact that this program is a collection of largely good young men, who stay out of trouble, and out of the media in negative fashion, but where does that come from? It comes from the type of kids we recruit and the type of people in the program who continue to shape them. The atheist cannot even make a rational claim for morality. You cannot scientifically detect right and wrong, but religion, faith is the center where such things exist tangibly and were they can be spoken of objectively.
I would never claim my illustration was a perfect one, but I merely wanted to cast atheism, at least modern atheism in its true light. It functions as a religious organization. There is every bit as much "faith" involved in observance of an atheistic worldview as there is in a theistic worldview. There will NEVER be a scenario where everyone is happy, because we allow and promote freedom in this country, but no one will ever be ultimately free to do whatever they want because there are always limits and obstacles to those freedoms.
Being honest about your example, any kid who has a scholarship offer at Clemson has plenty more options out there. They would not be pigeon holed into having to attend Clemson under an openly Christian coaching staff. They could certainly look elsewhere.
On the flip side, it would not surprise me one bit to find a current or former player come forward to say they felt alienated or pressured by the current staff's beliefs. I actually expect this to happen. There has to be someone who felt this way. And this should be investigated. If the staff actually manipulated people based on their beliefs the. It should be corrected according to our laws, but just because someone feels alienated doesn't mean a wrong was done. I have felt all kinds of emotions that were actually false.
We are so politically correct in this country that we are just about no good for anything anymore.
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Freshman [3]
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Re: Ok, I'll bite...
Apr 18, 2014, 11:09 AM
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You said "the atheist cannot even make a rational claim for morality. You cannot scientifically detect right and wrong."
Do you actually believe this? Are you saying that all the agnostic and atheistic people on this planet cannot tell right from wrong? I am just dumbfounded if this is truly what you think. However, I may have misinterpreted that, so forgive if that is the case, but I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
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Starter [352]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 4:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: This ain't going to be popular ] |
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For one thing, the player would probably never know the coach was an atheist unless he asked him about it. If a coach mocked the player going to church, that would be a violation. If he went on and on about how religion was superstition, that would be a violation. But just not talking about God or prayer during the work environment would hardly be seen by most people as anti-Christian pressure.
But how would you feel if you were on the second string, and noticed that the folks who all went along when the coach announced the group going to Church services managed somehow to make first string? I'm not saying anything like that is going on, but that is the kind of non-overt pressure we are talking about.
I'm a Christian, but I get uncomfortable around people who constantly interject religion into their discussions in a non-religious setting.
What is your distinction between manipulate and practice?
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 4:37 AM
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Jesus commands us to manipulate. He tells us to proclaim the Gospel to all nations, to teach everything He commanded, and to baptize in the name of Father, Son, and Spirit.
At the same time we have clear teaching in scripture that we are to submit to the governing authorities in civic life.
As a practicing Christian we should see ourselves as free to life our loves for Jesus openly and unashamedly, with love as our core motivator. We thus will not manipulate in the scenario of giving someone certain status or title or refraining from doing so based on their beliefs, but we do manipulate in the sense that we are looking for opportunities to share Jesus with them. As a teacher I should feel comfortable if asked what my views are with regard to origins to share that I believe their is a Creator and that there is scientific evidence to back this up. As a coach or mentor or boss of asked about my faith or why my character is a certain way or why I respond the way I do in certain situations, I should feel confident to share the reason for my hope and the source of my character etc. with hopes of sharing Jesus with them. I should feel confident to read my Bible, to pray over my food and when opportunities arise that are appropriate for prayer, such as when I feel I need guidance or am asking for the LORD's intercession in some set of circumstances.
Thinking that I need to leave my faith at home or for only before and after I punch the clock is absurd. It is not the heart of separation of church and state. It is the product of philosophical atheism brought about with the onset of the Age of Reason/Age of Enlightenment. It is secular thought woven into the fabric of our society and as theists we should reject this unreservedly.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 8:10 AM
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Just looking for a civil discussion here and I will be giving you thumbs up for discussion, even though I disagree with you.
I have just a couple questions/clarifications about some excerpts in your last to posts since you seem to be speaking for people who do not happen to view the world as you do.
You say in an earlier post that atheists have "this reluctance to accept or observe anything supernatural." and then go on to say "As a teacher I should feel comfortable if asked what my views are with regard to origins to share that I believe their is a Creator and that there is scientific evidence to back this up."
Here is the thing, believe it or not, atheists tend to be very open and scientific minded. Therefore, if you were to present evidence of anything supernatural and/or to back up your views of the creator, then there would be room to have real debates and you could publish papers for peer review. You might say that scientist would reject anything and everything a christian might submit to such peer review. This is objectively false as many Christians submit and are accepted all of the time. They have not, however, ever submitted any repeatable, testable evidence of anything supernatural. Why is that? Wouldn't it go a long way to simply put some substance behind what they are claiming and show that it is indeed the truth.
So here is my challenge to you:
You claim that there is scientific evidence to back up your supernatural beliefs. Can you provide me and all of us here with a single piece of evidence for anything supernatural?
Also, there is one thing about science that I feel a lot of people in general and very much so about a lot of people on this board don't understand. The scientific method does not nor ever will claim to know everything. It basis ALL of it's information on new evidence that it finds and we build our knowledge from there. If we should ever find evidence to the contrary of any of our currently held accepted knowledge, then that knowledge changes.
So basically, I personally do not know if supernatural events actually happen. However, I have never personally witnessed nor have I been shown evidence that it happens so what am I supposed to conclude here? Am I just supposed to believe the preacher even though he doesn't back up his claims? If so, which one? Seems like tigernet can't even agree on which particular section of Christianity is correct.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 9:26 AM
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I guess you're fine with scientists not having to back up claims with evidence then? You say it's fine for Scientist/Evolution to not have all the answers but expect Christians too.
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CU Guru [1098]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 9:51 AM
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Thought the same thing..... +1
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 10:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: This ain't going to be popular ] |
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>I guess you're fine with scientists not having to back up claims with evidence then?
No sir I am not, scientists can and do provide evidence, please see below for an example.
>You say it's fine for Scientist/Evolution to not have all the answers but expect Christians too.
I did not claim that Christians should have all the answers but that they should be able to backup and verify the claims that they are making.
I have provided verifiable evidence (meaning you yourself right now can go test and see that it is objectively true through experimentation) for facts scientists are stating.
Now, please show me any evidence that anything supernatural occurs. My guess is that it can't be done because there isn't any, which is shown by both of the replies i've seen so far.
Here is a good overall look of the evidence for evolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
Please note that you do not have to take wikipedia's word for it. You can follow each of the citations and verify for yourselves.
Also, please note that by your own beliefs, you are to always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks. Well I am genuinely asking and am a reasonable man. I'm not here to be a jerk but to facilitate open discourse. If there is actual good reason to believe what you are saying then I am all ears.
>But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. – 1 Peter 3:15-16
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 10:57 AM
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I am no scientist, but I do know if you got a room full of scientists together, they would not be able to agree upon a definition of science or come to a consensus on what truly makes up the scientific method. I agree if we play by your rules, then we will almost certainly never see any hard evidence for the supernatural, but that is merely because you start with empiricist or naturalistic presuppositions. That basically means, adherents of philosophical naturalism, who you claim are fairly open minded, actually begin their work by disallowing the potentiality of any supernatural agent acting in or upon nature. This, I hope you can see, drastically skews any possible results. If I am looking for the origins of earth, and I begin with "there is no such thing as a creator God" then it will be pretty difficult to walk away with evidence to support such a view.
You basically say the burden of proof is on the Theist.
Ok, I believe that a personal intelligent Creator offers the best explanations for origins. Considering the hard data, including vast holes in the fossil record, and the extremely weak evidence for a primordial soup, evolution as a macro-theory is not as strong as many would like to believe.
There are a number of scientific theories, such as the Kalaam Cosmological theory and the fine-tuning theory of the universe that offer evidence in support of an intelligent designer and others that point in significant ways to design. Anyway, origins is a hotly debated field with zero certainty in terms of scientifically representing how he universe got to its present state. I think the biblical account offers the best explanation.
Couple that with my experiential knowledge (another area empiricists deny) and I am convinced in the reality of the God of the Bible. I have experienced healings and providential circumstances that absolutely only make sense if there is a personal loving God. Yes, there are times when I haven't felt His presence and when He hasn't done the supernatural that I desired or expected, but to me the evidence is overwhelming.
I appreciate your desire for a worthwhile conversation. They are hard to come by on TNet or most other places. I hope you are earnestly open to God. Some of my most disappointing moments have come from some folks who I am very close to who have prayed for God to reveal Himself to them but either He did not or they couldn't detect Him doing so. I really don't know what to make of that other than to admit my disappointment and sadness. Nevertheless, my own experience, heightened by what I feel to be objective evidence, secures my faith in our supernatural God.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 11:19 AM
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First of all, thank you for the cordial discussion. As you said it is a difficult thing to find and I really do appreciate it. We do not have to agree on everything (even very big things) to be part of the Clemson family.
I do not doubt for a second that you have had very strong spiritual experiences. That is something I could not possibly deny/approve of as each of us experience life in a different way.
My main position i'm trying to say is that I personally have not seen anything supernatural nor have I seen any evidence for it. I hope you can understand why that would lead me to conclude that it probably doesn't happen. I mean, if I can't see, feel, touch or experience something in any conceivable way, why should I believe it?
I know we can debate all day about what scientist, christians or anyone else believes the correct method for determining what is true or what is false but at the end of the day for me, if you there is not evidence backing up a claim that you can show other people, I'm not sure what another reasonable way to conclude something is true/false is.
You also stated "I hope you are earnestly open to God".
To be honest with you, I grew up in a Christian household and my Grandfather was a preacher. Up until pretty recently (a year or so ago) I would be arguing against a post like mine in pretty much an identical manner to yours. Trust, me it was a huge struggle and not one I take lightly and is still the source of a least some confusion and maybe even guilt but at the end of the day, I was not able to intelligently defend my position on Christianity and more so, now that i have reviewed the scientific evidence (of things I was against such as evolution) for myself, I can clearly see that they are very logical and are absolutely grounded in fact. I like to think that I should base my decisions on logical reasoning instead of emotions.
So yes, I am absolutely open to God but if I can't see/feel/hear (or experience him in any perceivable way), what am I supposed to think?
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:30 PM
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Sorry for the angst your search has led you through. Like I mentioned before, I do not know fully what to make of those who earnestly seek God and who do not find Him or are not seemingly found by Him. If I felt there was no evidence, I most certainly would not believe as well and as event he Apostle Paul said, of the resurrection isn't true the Christians are the biggest fools of all.
Thank you also for your serious, well-reasoned, and cordial discussion. I hope it wouldn't bother you to know I will be praying for God to reveal Himself to you in tangible ways.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:54 PM
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That wouldn't bother me at all. Thanks for the discussion again, you seem like a genuinely great person.
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Freshman [3]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 11:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: This ain't going to be popular ] |
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"If I am looking for the origins of earth, and I begin with "there is no such thing as a creator God" then it will be pretty difficult to walk away with evidence to support such a view."
Who said that that is what happens? What about all the Christian scientists researching the origins of the universe that happen to believe in God as well? Have those scientists found any conclusive evidence?
"evolution as a macro-theory is not as strong as many would like to believe."
What gives you the authority to say this over the hundreds of thousands/millions of scientists and scholars that don't? What physical evidence do you have that would support your claim?
"Couple that with my experiential knowledge (another area empiricists deny) and I am convinced in the reality of the God of the Bible."
What experimental knowledge is this? Can you link me a source to the peer reviewed results of these experiments?
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:26 PM
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Is your response for real??
#1 Do I really need some authority to state my opinion which happens to also be the opinion of quote a few scientists, philosophers, etc of merit. This is TNet, I think I have enough authority.
#2 Asking me if I have peer reviewed results based on experiments to prove my experiential knowledge if idiotic. Thanks for the mundane, pat approach you have taken...
#3 My physical evidence to deny evolution as the most plausible theory of origins is the gaping hole in the fossil record (well documented) and the inability to actual replicate anything even close to the reactions necessary to bring about life in the primordial soup. It can't even be replicated through the most earnest efforts of those who faithfully believe it to be true. Many say Darwin would not even be a Darwinist based on the actually data of evolution.
And for a bonus... To assist your reading comprehension... I obviously am not speaking of those practitioners who employ theistic science or other means that allow for the possibility of the supernatural. I was speaking of empiricists/materialists/naturalists/physicalist which should be obvious if you actually read my comment.
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Scout Team [170]
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So do you believe there is no God or do you believe you don't know
Apr 19, 2014, 11:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: This ain't going to be popular ] |
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If there is one?
As for scientific proof I will provide some scientific areas for you to review. The law of cause and effect. The first and second law of thermodynamics. Inanimate to animate states. Genetic information creation, storage and transference. Statistical impossibility. A truly open scientific mind will find a lot more questions in science when it comes to life's biggest questions than answers.
My proof rests in who I was before I met my personal Lord and savior Jesus Christ and who I am today and who He is transforming into.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Why would you as a Christian feel unconfortable about
Apr 18, 2014, 8:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: This ain't going to be popular ] |
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people talking about Christianity in any setting? How would any of us know about Christ if someone hadn't talked to us about Him. Most non-Christians are found in non-religous settings.
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Fan [55]
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popular or not, it is what should be done******
Apr 18, 2014, 5:17 AM
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110%er [7191]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 6:40 AM
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Why not just ban prayers before all sporting events?
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Orange Blooded [2078]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 7:21 AM
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I noticed the past few years during pregame they no longer start by saying let us pray, they just say it.
Wonder why they haven't taken on the NFL. So tired of the political incorrect society we live in.
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110%er [5093]
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I believe the University will put up a tough front
Apr 18, 2014, 6:43 AM
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against the complaint. But they will have to make changes behind the scene. They have to know the university is at risk for a lawsuit in its current state.
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Trainer [29]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 7:41 AM
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YOU WHERE RIGHT ON IT NOT BEING POPLAR. SO YOU THINK FOOTBALL MAKE GOOD MEN NOT CHRISTIAN INFLUENCE?
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Trainer [29]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 7:42 AM
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I just dont understand why any of this matters. Why is it condemnable to express your faith in any venue? Whether or not you are Christian, where is the harm in seeing other people practice their faith? These are 18+ year old young men that should be old enough to form their own opinions about any topic. It is perfectly acceptable to lobby for any belief except one with religious affilitions: who to vote for politically (there are commercials constantly-most negative), what type of food to eat, what prescription drugs to consume, where to go to college, etc, etc, etc. Are these people trampling on my rights to make my own decisions?
And as far as the "separation of church and state", they still put a Christmas tree up in the White House. If I dont believe in the Christams story do I have a right to make everyone who may hang decorations up in my neighborhood take them down so I dont get offended?
This is ludicris.
As long as Dabo isnt making religious activities mandatory or showing favoritism then I see nothing wrong with how he is conducting his coaching duties. If it offends some people then sorry, deal with it, this is America.
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All-In [27366]
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Could you please state the LAW they are breaking?***
Apr 18, 2014, 7:50 AM
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110%er [5712]
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No law is being broken. The constitution plainly states.....
Apr 18, 2014, 8:00 AM
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that no laws can be enacted in any way that promotes or suppresses any religion. All you PCers that are so concerned with offending some one need to get over it. Just about everything in this world offends someone. As long as the attendance at church is voluntary, I see no problem with. Atheists need to mind their own business and let those of faith mind theirs. Atheists are trying to impose their beliefs on others and that is unacceptable.
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Oculus Spirit [96855]
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We now live in the United States of the Offended***
Apr 18, 2014, 8:04 AM
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CU Medallion [61842]
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^^ RA'd for offending me for saying I am offended.***
Apr 18, 2014, 8:32 AM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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aren't you a little big to be wearing that short skirt?
Apr 18, 2014, 9:05 AM
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smh
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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I can see her ankles and it's making me think
Apr 18, 2014, 9:06 AM
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bad thoughts. Can we burn her at the stake??
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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did she turn you into a newt?
Apr 18, 2014, 9:07 AM
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it's important.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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I'm scared that's the next step in my transformation
Apr 18, 2014, 9:09 AM
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into a heathen. So can we be preemptive here?
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Oculus Spirit [96855]
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What type of newt?
Apr 18, 2014, 9:10 AM
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Hopefully a fig newt.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Gingrich
Apr 18, 2014, 9:11 AM
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which as we all know is one step away from a Grinch
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Heisman Winner [140523]
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Re: What type of newt?
Apr 18, 2014, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to What type of newt? ] |
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Newt Dobbs? That's way too obscure.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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atheists...
Apr 18, 2014, 9:20 AM
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mostly come at night, mostly.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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If an athesist screams in space and no one is
Apr 18, 2014, 9:21 AM
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around to hear them, do they still make a noise?
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CU Guru [1893]
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You are absolutely correct.
Apr 18, 2014, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to No law is being broken. The constitution plainly states..... ] |
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Atheists get to impose their beliefs, but Christians cannot? It's a double standard. The Bible instructs Christians to share their faith with others. Matthew 28:19-20. Dabo would not be a Christian if we were not doing what he is doing, and I see nothing wrong with it. The FFRF is proving the Bible is correct. In the last days, there will be apostasy. The FFRF is an obvious example. Further, Christians will be hated for Jesus's name. Matthew 10:22. Hats off to the FFRF for bringing the Rapture ever closer.
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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Slight adjustments can be made as nec.
Apr 18, 2014, 7:57 AM
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For example, if a player wants to get baptized, great. He needs to find a place to do it and invite his friends on the team. Same with bible studies. Things haver to be a little more student-initiated. THis is the short of it. How does FCA survive all this? Not sure.
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110%er [5572]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 8:29 AM
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Based on the merits of their argument I think they and you are incorrect. Their argument doesn't hold water because nobody is forcing the players to do anything, its all voluntary. Also voluntary is a player's right not to participate, and not be Christian (or religious at all).
What some people don't comprehend is that public employees are not required to become atheists at work. That would be forcing the religion of Atheism on EVERYBODY and the Supreme Court has already ruled an stated that Gov't employees can not be coerced against their will to refrain from worshiping, or coerced against their will to worship a religion.
Unfortunately, the knee-jerk emotional left wing-types never seem to have the intellectual wattage to understand the difference.
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CU Medallion [52371]
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Clemson's official response is that they are in compliance**
Apr 18, 2014, 8:40 AM
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.
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Heisman Winner [134477]
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I think it is funny that I can't have my Bible at work or
Apr 18, 2014, 8:46 AM
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pray at work but I have to let a Muslim have his time with Allah or whoever he/she worships. I thought this country was founded on freedom of religion and it is the atheists who get their way. Even though my wife and I are separated, I'm still grateful she got me back into church. Our son will be 3 very soon and I would love for him to play for a coach who has religious values like Dabo. We lose Christianity, we lose ourselves IMO.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I think it is funny that I can't have my Bible at work or
Apr 18, 2014, 9:08 AM
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I call BS on you not being able to have a Bible at work while a Muslim can.
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Heisman Winner [134477]
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Don't do THAT!!! I might be offended.
Apr 18, 2014, 9:09 AM
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Team Captain [496]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 9:18 AM
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In my house your ideas are popular ...
... UNTIL you added the last three sentences.
Getting into specific items is to be worked out ... and may or may not include those that you list.
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Legend [19586]
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Please tell me which law is being broken?
Apr 18, 2014, 9:20 AM
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TIA
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All-American [579]
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"This ain't going to be popular"- ONLY part you got right
Apr 18, 2014, 11:15 AM
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in my humble opinion, of course.
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: This ain't going to be popular
Apr 18, 2014, 12:12 PM
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Our team is on the rise because of our coaches, and student athletes.
Had the university asked Dabo to tone down his religious beliefs that would be one thing, but an outsider hate group steps in and wants to use their muscle to force their beliefs just pisses me off.
Most of the ballplayers come from christian upbringing. They have a choice to attend Clemson or not. They have a choice to attend service or not. Most players/recruits love the coaches and family atmosphere at Clemson. Its why they come here. They know he is a christian before they ever enroll.
Allow to make up their own mind as we all have and take that controversy somewhere else.
Another thing to consider, have there been an outcry against our staff from players? That certainly should be considered. That group needs to back off unless they are invited here otherwise mind your own business.
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