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So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt
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So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 9, 2016, 11:02 PM

without choosing sides (rep or dem) does anyone agree with this assertion?

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 9, 2016, 11:04 PM

Yes. Example: Flint Michigan.

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Then how come NO other candidate mentions this?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:08 PM

Because they're ALL corrupt?

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Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:09 PM

Because the average person doesn't want the truth. They just want to make America great again.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Words


Feb 9, 2016, 11:11 PM

only words.

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No, the average "normal" person who supports their own family...


Feb 10, 2016, 10:22 AM [ in reply to Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this? ]

...just wants the government to get the #### out of their business and leave them the #### alone. They also don't want so-called "progressives" controlling their thoughts and speech by forcing political correctness on them. People are free to call a spade a spade without any form of retribution by those who disagree. Viva LA first amendment!!!!!

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Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this?


Feb 10, 2016, 2:03 PM [ in reply to Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this? ]

It would be a lot easier to "make America great again" than it would be to make coot U great for the first time.

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LOL. True.***


Feb 10, 2016, 7:48 PM



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Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:23 PM [ in reply to Then how come NO other candidate mentions this? ]

Lots of them talk about a Washington overhaul or Washington reform.

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But campaign reform? None.***


Feb 9, 2016, 11:42 PM



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Re: But campaign reform? None.***


Feb 10, 2016, 6:32 AM

On corporate profits.........

You are right the top three pharma companies profited $45 billion or whatever but..............

Apple (one company) profited 53 billion last year. Yes, one company. 54 billion.

Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffett) profited 20 billion.

WalMart- 19 billion

GE-- 17 billion.

If you look at the top ten most profitable companies only one is a "pharma" and that is JNJ and I argue that JNJ is not your conventional pharma a la Pfizer, Merck, etc.

So....where do you draw the line? When do you say that a company is making too much money and you start targeting them??

I find it interesting..........think about technology. Years ago when plasma/LCD TVs came out they were what $3k. Today one can be had for a few hundred bucks??

Blu Ray players---today $50? Computers??

Why is it that technological advances have driven down the price of many many goods EXCEPT healthcare? My wife but get a MRI each year for a condition she has. EACH year the cost of the MRI increases dramatically. Same procedure.....probably same machine but about 20% higher Y/Y

Quick story from a friend of mine who is surgeon here in upstate.................he does many appendectomies. He says that if he does the surgery at a "hospital system" (GHS) then the total billable to the patient is around $15k. There are surgery rooms he can "rent" in Greenville that have no affiliation to any healthcare system (again GHS, ANMED, etc.) Same surgery, same procedure. Total cost to patient.........about $3k.

Folks....the problems arent the profits of a company. It the system.

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Re: But campaign reform? None.***


Feb 10, 2016, 2:59 PM

Great post - you're spot on. I actually just had an appendectomy and it was just over 15k.

About the system, sadly I don't ever see it changing, it will continue as is and most likely get worse for the average joe. Too much wealth is held by a very small group of people.


Message was edited by: gville76®


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For relaxing times, make it Suntory time


Re: But campaign reform? None.***


Feb 10, 2016, 3:30 PM [ in reply to Re: But campaign reform? None.*** ]

> On corporate profits.........

> Quick story from a friend of mine who is surgeon here
> in upstate.................he does many
> appendectomies. He says that if he does the surgery
> at a "hospital system" (GHS) then the total billable
> to the patient is around $15k. There are surgery
> rooms he can "rent" in Greenville that have no
> affiliation to any healthcare system (again GHS,
> ANMED, etc.) Same surgery, same procedure. Total cost
> to patient.........about $3k.
>
> Folks....the problems arent the profits of a company.
> It the system.

I disagree with your first idea but agree on the second. The difference between the pharmaceutical companies and say Apple or Walmart is that the purchase is voluntary. You want an Iphone, you get it from Apple. You want a new deer stand, you get it from Walmart. You don't have that choice with medicine. You buy it or die. We are the only industrialized nation that does not negotiate pharmaceutical prices. As a matter of fact, it's against the law for Medicare to negotiate drug prices. So the profits they make aren't from people with choices, the profits are from people who are in a corner. And Big Pharma takes advantage of it. There are some things in life...especially life itself that should NOT be subject to unrestrained capitalism.

On the 2nd point I wholeheartedly agree. The Healthcare Industrial Complex is controlled by a comparatively small number of large Hospital Corporations. Recently in Raleigh, NC a local TV station went to the 2 largest hospitals in Raleigh. They priced the same surgical procedure and all of it's attendant costs and needs right down to the amount of gauze that would be needed. One Hospital's cost was $50,000 higher than the other. To the unsuspecting patient they have no way of knowing the cost of healthcare until AFTER they receive it. Hence, 65% of ALL personal bankruptcies in the U.S. are caused by medical bills.

Special interests own our representatives. Who, now, represents us?


Message was edited by: Felix2®


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Health care has always been a big issue with me after


Feb 10, 2016, 6:54 PM

seeing my dad who worked his entire life extra hard and smart. He made great moves and is in a good retirement situation. It could all be undone my his wife (my step-mom) in a medical situation where they have insurance.

I don't get it. The system is corrupt.

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Excellent example... +1.***


Feb 12, 2016, 11:24 AM [ in reply to Re: But campaign reform? None.*** ]



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Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:28 PM [ in reply to Then how come NO other candidate mentions this? ]

George Carlton put it best. Look up his American Dream speech.

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He did. I love it.***


Feb 9, 2016, 11:42 PM



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Re: Then how come NO other candidate mentions this?


Feb 10, 2016, 2:02 PM [ in reply to Then how come NO other candidate mentions this? ]

Trump and Carson talk about it but they do not actually use the word "corrupt."

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Trump mentions the TPP. I like that he's against it.***


Feb 10, 2016, 6:55 PM



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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 11:53 AM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

Yes. That is why there needs to be less government not more. The money in government is why there is corruption. If there is very little government there will be little corruption. Let the free market handle business. You can always choose not use a company for their services. The government has guns if you try to not use their service.

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I agree but with insurance too?***


Feb 10, 2016, 6:56 PM



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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 11, 2016, 8:37 PM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

yes, because corporations are not corrupt. How about we just take the money out of politics instead.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 11, 2016, 8:41 PM

I cant decide where to jump in on this

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Obviously the political system is corrupt


Feb 12, 2016, 12:47 PM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

That's why he is a career politician.

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https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/00/81/16/28/1000_F_81162810_8TlZDomtVuVGlyqWL2I4HA7Wlqw7cr5a.jpg


It's all relative. Compared to some banana republics, it is


Feb 9, 2016, 11:13 PM

a Utopian system. Compared to N Korea, it is absolutely corrupt, as N Korea embraces bribes and political favors that would be scandolous in our country as normal course of business.

Honestly, the rise of the executive order, the death of the true philabuster, the supreme court rulings on prperty rights (such as the Kelo case), and the suggestion of politicians of putting their friends(such as presidents) on the supreme court as justices; the constitutional republic is slowly dying.

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"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."

"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."


Yeah it's all relative. I lived in Colombia for 6 years.


Feb 9, 2016, 11:38 PM

Crazy corruption and no middle class. Those two things related? I think so.

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Re: It's all relative. Compared to some banana republics, it is


Feb 10, 2016, 3:03 AM [ in reply to It's all relative. Compared to some banana republics, it is ]

Tigersense, Great reply. I think that Washington(Executive, Legislative, Judicial, Lobbyist-K Street) have become the enemy of we the people!!!!

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But if recreational marijuana is legalized, does it matter?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:29 PM

Seriously, no more or no less than historically in the USA.

And the ole USA less than most other countries!

Perspective is needed.

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Is the question merely the tipping point then?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:39 PM

Because those historically don't turn out well.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 9, 2016, 11:32 PM

Watch "Too Big To Fail" on demand and you'll know exactly how he arrived at such an assertion. It's almost impossible to to agree with everything Bernie says about buy business in the United States. But he's clueless on about 75% of the rest of the job description.

I wish we could have a "board of directors". Trump and Sanders would probably do an amazing job on the economics. Say what you want about Hillary but she's probably the smartest up there and the only one with the experience in diplomacy. Kasich sounds like he would be the best commander in chief. Etc. But out of all the candidates, on both sides, I can't say that any one of them is equipped for the entirety of the job and all it entails. I wish prudential candidates were more like athletes... Tons to choose from. Today? It's a circus. Where are the washingtons, the roosevelts, the Jeffersons, the kennedys, the reagans, the Adams? It's a fn travesty really. The debates have been embarassing. No one is talking intelligently about any of the issues, lies are common place, etc.

If you're not worried, you're not watching.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 9, 2016, 11:41 PM

Interesting take. I feel the US is like on a Rome course.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 9, 2016, 11:44 PM

Sorry for all the misspellings! Ugh, hopefully some of y'all were able to understand what I was trying to say.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 12:14 AM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

> Watch "Too Big To Fail" on demand and you'll know
> exactly how he arrived at such an assertion. It's
> almost impossible to to agree with everything Bernie
> says about buy business in the United States. But
> he's clueless on about 75% of the rest of the job
> description.
>
> I wish we could have a "board of directors". Trump
> and Sanders would probably do an amazing job on the
> economics. Say what you want about Hillary but she's
> probably the smartest up there and the only one with
> the experience in diplomacy. Kasich sounds like he
> would be the best commander in chief. Etc. But out of
> all the candidates, on both sides, I can't say that
> any one of them is equipped for the entirety of the
> job and all it entails. I wish prudential candidates
> were more like athletes... Tons to choose from.
> Today? It's a circus. Where are the washingtons, the
> e roosevelts, the Jeffersons, the kennedys, the
> reagans, the Adams? It's a fn travesty really. The
> debates have been embarassing. No one is talking
> intelligently about any of the issues, lies are
> common place, etc.
>
> If you're not worried, you're not watching.

What this guy said.

At the end of the day, it seems every election we're forced to choose from a flotilla of bad candidates, and sift the one that will end up doing the LEAST damage.

Americans really aren't voting an ideology any more, they're voting the guy (or girl) they think will blow up the planet the LEAST.

Kinda scary.

Especially since the ones they're putting in front of us - on both sides - seem kinda psychotic.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 10:29 AM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

When this country was founded, it seemed as though the smartest people were our leaders. Now it's a spending and/or popularity contest. The smartest people are too smart to run for president.

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"Dabo crushed my soul." --- Classof09


Yeah, and he wants to strengthen it. Irony.***


Feb 9, 2016, 11:39 PM



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What? Strengthen corruption WITHOUT a Superpac?


Feb 9, 2016, 11:44 PM

BTW, do you even know what that is?

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He wants to dramatically strengthen the powers of the


Feb 10, 2016, 1:27 PM

federal government. Campaign finance reform doesn't do much in the way of alleviating the much bigger problem of a runaway government. When speaking about corruption in the political system, campaigns are a drop in the bucket compared to potential waste/corruption found in huge bureaucracies.

He wants the government to have more of a responsibility than it already has in spending the wealth of this country. He believes that a government with more responsibility and power represents the silver bullet to solve everyone's suffering. His plan is to have the federal government attack wall street and big business and forcefully redistribute their wealth to those who have less.

He wants to dramatically increase the welfare state and dramatically increase government spending and taxes, including a payroll tax on the middle class.

It's all moot anyway, his policies are all unrealistic to even pass. More than Clinton or Obama.

He is riding the same wave of naivete and idealism that Obama rode in on, he just has to say even more radical things as the old liberal is the new moderate.

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I couldn't agree more.


Feb 10, 2016, 1:35 PM

The issue is we are too lazy of a country to run a socialist state. People don't realize that Canada has stricter immigration reform that the us does. You have to prove your economic value to Canada over 5 years to become a citizen. We have 18 year olds thinking they can get all the benefits of a socialist state without everyone contributing. It will end up like social security. Not enough money coming in...

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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense


Feb 10, 2016, 1:39 PM

of nationalism in the US like the Scandinavian countries. Because they share a common culture, ( look at their demographics) they are inclined to pull in the same direction. When Americans use Norway as an example of how socialism could work... where are the swathes of ghettos in Norway? Where are the tens of millions of illegal immigrants? What about all the large minority groups that feel disenfranchised with no loyalty or allegiance to society?

Scandinavia is COMPLETELY different socially than the US. As Norway and Sweden deal with the migrants we will see more quickly how their system can't handle it.

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Sweden has had a steady increase in racism there.***


Feb 10, 2016, 1:49 PM



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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


Re: Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense


Feb 10, 2016, 2:25 PM [ in reply to Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense ]

It seems like you're ignoring that Norway and Europe avoided a lot of our socioeconomic issues by actually having a system that allowed people to contribute instead of disenfranchising them.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


lol, the system holds people back in the us argument.


Feb 10, 2016, 2:31 PM

I was the first college grad in my family. My dad worked 60 hours a week at a factory so we could eat. I financed a pretty penny of my college that I'm paying off now. I did all this because I was raised on solid values. The world is easier for the rich, but that is true every where. I'm 25 and proud of where I am at in my life right now, and proud of where I will be in the future. My salary is above the average us salary, and it's because I earned it.

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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


You seem to be ignoring the fact


Feb 10, 2016, 2:31 PM [ in reply to Re: Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense ]

That we have a southern border where millions of people come here, some to contribute, and some to commit crimes and mooch off of the system. Norway doesn't have that problem. Europe is just now starting to feel the pain of these "refugees" from terrorist nations, and it's literally tearing them apart. Just saying.

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Re: Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense


Feb 10, 2016, 3:01 PM [ in reply to Re: Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense ]

Europe has plenty of socioeconomic issues. France is a better comparison to the US than Norway and France has plenty of racial, socioeconomic, and governmental issues.

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Sigh.... here we go....


Feb 10, 2016, 5:59 PM [ in reply to Re: Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense ]

First of all, much of Europe continued to exploit colonies until the 1960's.

2nd of all, from 1850 to 1900 over a MILLION Swedes left Sweden to come to the U.S. for a better life.

3. Sweden enacted universal manhood suffrage 50 years after we let blacks vote.

4. Sweden was an absolute Monarchy, which a legal aristocracy into the 19th Century.

5. You don't know what you are talking about.

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And Denmark?


Feb 10, 2016, 7:01 PM

How many Danish do you know?

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What about Denmark? They had an aristocracy nearly 100 years


Feb 10, 2016, 7:09 PM

after we had a republic.

All these Bernie fans think that inequality is bad now... they have absolutely no historical perspective. More economic equality in the U.S. right now than 99% of human history. We also have a ridiculously high standard of living. American poor people live like Kings compared to the middle class 150 years ago.

When you disincentivize being successful then you bring the whole ship down. Soviet Russia should have proven that to everyone. CHina's capitalist modernization was another chance to get it. Greece, Spain, Italy....

When socialism outpaces capitalism it is just as bad as when capitalism outpaces socialism. Balance is needed. Bernie is unhinged.

Some people are failures. Some people suck. And some people are going to die of something avoidable. To pretend that all poor people and all criminals are victims of a system is neo-liberal madness.

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I was just making the point then THEY have a higher standard


Feb 10, 2016, 7:32 PM

of living than the US. Hard to argue with that and defeats your point also.

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headline edit: that not then***


Feb 10, 2016, 7:33 PM



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You are not getting the point.


Feb 10, 2016, 7:35 PM [ in reply to I was just making the point then THEY have a higher standard ]

They do not have a higher standard of living because of socialism. They have a higher standard of living because they have much less responsibility to spend money overseas, or for self-defense, and they are more culturally contiguous which actually contributes to socialism making sense.

When you say Denmark = socialist and Denmark = higher standard of living THEREFORE Socialism = higher standard of living, you are grotesquely oversimplifying the equation. Social/political/geographic differences are huge and determine the relative utility of advanced socialism.

They have a society much more inclined to pull in the same direction. No large angry minorities who want to remain outsiders.

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I understand what you're saying, I do


Feb 10, 2016, 7:47 PM

but this unfettered capitalism got us here. No denying that.

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We do not have unfettered capitalism. We actually are


Feb 11, 2016, 4:32 PM

already on the socialist side of the socialist-capitalist spectrum.

I understand that unfettered capitalism is a disaster. But what Bernie people don't get is that pure socialism is just as bad. The reason the U.S. did so well in the 20th century (other than geographic and historical luck) is because we are a well-balanced mixed economy. But we have been sliding more and more towards heavy socialism. It's gotten to the point that we actually demonize wall street. Instead of making sound arguments about necessary steps to limit the crazy ups and downs of markets, we are trying to dehumanize rich people. We are trying to glorify the sick, the stupid and the poor. We are not even differentiating between poor people who contribute and poor people who do not.

Wall street has been great for the American middle class. Banking shenanigans and wall street speculation has created an extreme excess of wealth that has given us a silly standard of living. Now that we are spoiled and totally removed from reality by our insulation from actual suffering, we are deluded into thinking that college education is a right of all people. We are deluded into thinking that just being born in the US should be enough to be provided with everything we want.

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Re: We do not have unfettered capitalism. We actually are


Feb 12, 2016, 10:00 AM

To state that "Wall Street has been great for the American middle class" is not only false, but preposterously so.

Both you and Pacific Coast have made your points but a lot of what you're implying is noticeably based on opinion, not fact.

Have you seen "too big to fail"? Do you read the financial part of the daily news? Do you know what the new Dodd-Frank banking law entails or who supplies a majority of the campaign money for politicians?

Wall Street has been, and continues to be one of, if not the premier organized crime syndicates of the modern age.

http://robertreich.org/post/109234867870

[IMG][/IMG]


If you're going to argue over opinions, argue over the ones backed by fact. I don't agree with everything Bernie Sanders says by any stretch but I have a real hard time believing anyone is "pro-wall street" these days after the exposure of their corruption has been made so blatantly apparent. The dollar continues to get cheaper, the prime interest rate is still near zero, banks are bargain-buying real estate all over the world, buying politicians, commingling investment & commercial banking assets, doing daily insider trading, supplying government economical administrators, the list goes on and on and on...

Ugh. It's too fn early for this. Wake up people.

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You missed the point. Refocus the scale of your analysis.


Feb 12, 2016, 12:49 PM

The advent of large banks and open stock markets unleashed an explosion of wealth that was impossible before them.

You are complaining about the cons of Wall Street. My argument, based in economic historical fact, is that without Wall Street and without banking our anomalously high standard of living would be impossible.

That's a general statement, but it is absolutely a fact. So when people demonize the institution of wall street as if it is some monster that only serves to steal... the games those people play have bad consequences, but they also served as the foundation for our ridiculously low level of suffering and our immense wealth. When we complain about the shape of today's American middle class we are committing an outrageous irony. There has never been a time in all of human endeavor where the standards of living for rich poor and in-between (as seen in this country) has been even close. We are spoiled beyond rational self-awareness.

Anyone who doesn't understand that has lost all perspective and is locked into presentism. I'm not pro-Wall-Street, I'm pro-what's good for me and my family. I'm just aware of the many extreme benefits we all get from it because I have not taken them all for granted.

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"Pure socialism"??? Where did you come up with that? BS***


Feb 12, 2016, 11:34 AM [ in reply to We do not have unfettered capitalism. We actually are ]



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You don't understand the concept of pure socialism?


Feb 12, 2016, 12:36 PM

Or did you fail to get my point that capitalism and socialism are equally dangerous when taken too far?

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Re: You are not getting the point.


Feb 10, 2016, 8:35 PM [ in reply to You are not getting the point. ]

You can feel the racism seething off your keyboard.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


EXACTLY!***


Feb 10, 2016, 8:59 PM [ in reply to You are not getting the point. ]



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This is the single smartest thing I've ever read in TigerNet


Feb 10, 2016, 9:48 PM [ in reply to You are not getting the point. ]

A great informative argument that provides a clear historical and accurate background without insulting anybody.

Thank you.

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Ditto brotha... DITTO!***


Feb 10, 2016, 8:56 PM [ in reply to What about Denmark? They had an aristocracy nearly 100 years ]



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Re: Sigh.... here we go....


Feb 10, 2016, 8:33 PM [ in reply to Sigh.... here we go.... ]

lol, you can't be serious? The ignorance of this post is unbelievable. You surely must be trolling?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: Sigh.... here we go....


Feb 11, 2016, 4:38 PM

I list facts, or explain my points and you hide behind meaningless trifle. Say something of value.

You made the factually retarded statement that Europe had a a system that didn't disenfranchise people.

And I responded that the U.S. has a much better tradition of offering political and legal equality than Europe. The French Revolution happened after ours. And most of Europe tried to kill the French Revolution.

You calling me ignorant is extremely ironic.

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Re: Sigh.... here we go....


Feb 11, 2016, 4:46 PM

What facts?

You stated the us gave blacks the right to vote 50 years before Sweden had universal suffrage.

Sweden just got universal suffrage last year?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 12:39 PM

Certain states tried to disenfranchise them on weird technicalities, but the federal government made amendments to counter those

The federal government of the U.S. gave blacks the right in the 1800's

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Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 1:10 PM

When did the federal government enact the law that barred states from disenfranchising black voters?

It's amazing how ignorant you are on this topic.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 1:23 PM

You are being fairly b*tchy about this. Maybe dial down the b*tch in your next response.

According to the constitution, which is the legal foundation for the USA, the answer to your question is 1868 and 1870. The federal government should not have had to declare marshal law when it did. The states that did not comply with the law were clearly going against the law of the land.

So legally speaking it was legal for blacks to vote in the U.S., according to the federal government in 1868. This was reaffirmed in 1870, and not all states complied.

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Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 3:05 PM

lol maybe you should dial the stupid back in your posts?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 3:17 PM

As expected, you dodge the point. Your style of argument is merely a compensation for a lack of actual knowledge and critical thinking.

Have the last word. This thread had expired.

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Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 3:26 PM

The guy arguing blacks were able to vote in the 19th century calling some else out for critical thinking skills lol.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 3:32 PM

Many blacks were voting in the 19th century.

In fact, many blacks in the north voted from the start.

1965 was about enforcing laws that were already written.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Is this coot related? Or did you just get caught lying again***


Feb 12, 2016, 4:47 PM [ in reply to Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century. ]



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You are completely embarrassing yourself. Here....


Feb 15, 2016, 1:18 PM [ in reply to Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century. ]

In 1870, the 15th Amendment was ratified. It stated that, “The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.”

More than a half-million black men became voters in the South during the 1870s (women did not secure the right to vote in the United States until 1920). For the most part, these new black voters cast their ballots solidly for the Republican Party, the party of the Great Emancipator, Abraham Lincoln.

When Mississippi rejoined the Union in 1870, former slaves made up more than half of that state’s population. During the next decade, Mississippi sent two black U.S. senators to Washington and elected a number of black state officials, including a lieutenant governor. But even though the new black citizens voted freely and in large numbers, whites were still elected to a large majority of state and local offices. This was the pattern in most of the Southern states during Reconstruction.


http://www.crf-usa.org/black-history-month/race-and-voting-in-the-segregated-south

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Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century.


Feb 12, 2016, 3:35 PM [ in reply to Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century. ]

He probably doesn't even know there was a black senator in the 1800's. Mississippi I believe.

Jim Crow and Klansmen, etc took away the rights but you are correct in saying blacks voted in the 1800's.

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2 of them actually.***


Feb 15, 2016, 1:20 PM



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I'm sorry, is this coot related or did you just lie again?


Feb 12, 2016, 1:30 PM [ in reply to Re: LOL Blacks got the right to vote in the 19th century. ]

http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=19015306#19015306

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did you just accuse somebody else of trolling?


Feb 11, 2016, 4:52 PM [ in reply to Re: Sigh.... here we go.... ]

ooooooh the irony of a coot who lives on this board accusing anybody else of trolling

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I believe Sanders used the term "democratic socialism"


Feb 10, 2016, 6:59 PM [ in reply to Not only that but we are too diverse. We don't have a sense ]

I know because he is a democrat some types who won't even try to determine the difference.

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Re: I couldn't agree more.


Feb 11, 2016, 8:46 PM [ in reply to I couldn't agree more. ]

And Canadians come here to get medical treatment.... Drugs .... Because it's difficult and very expensive there.

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Obama never mentioned superpacs and corruption


Feb 10, 2016, 6:58 PM [ in reply to He wants to dramatically strengthen the powers of the ]

he is a part of it. Why should he?

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Superpacs didn't exist until after he was originally elected


Feb 10, 2016, 7:12 PM

But he did mention a ton of things that got people fired up for hope and change.

Political division is worse. Racial division is worse. Threats to our security are worse.

People who elect on idealistic promises are sheep.

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It was the supreme court and citizen's united


Feb 10, 2016, 7:28 PM

you blame that on Obama?

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That's a pretty stupid question.***


Feb 10, 2016, 7:29 PM



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Right. It is.


Feb 10, 2016, 7:39 PM

Hope and change are a part of every election campaign so to single Obama out for it is stupid too. Don't get me wrong, Obama is bought and paid for as was Bush and the Clintons. Things have been in decline since Bush. My original question, who mentions government corrupt besides Bernie? And why is that? Is that a dumb question too?

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 12:06 AM

> without choosing sides (rep or dem) does anyone agree
> with this assertion?

Absolutely. We are a representative government. However, OUR representatives have been bought off by corporate and private big money lobbies and corporations.

The better question is, aside from the BS about how 'great America is", immigration, abortion, killing Isis and all the other ######### they love to side track us all with.

When was the last time you believed 1 year AFTER an election that your voice matters at all?

We pay the highest prices in the world for Prescription medication. Medicine people need to live. and the top 3 pharmaceutical companies made $45 Billion in profits last year. Not to mention that last year our taxes went to providing $23 BILLION in subsidies to the top 5 Oil companies.

But of course, it's mere coincidence that the fossil fuel industries and the pharmaceutical industries and there attendant billionaires are the highest contributors to campaign finance and congressional lobbying.

But go ahead and get wrapped up in immigration and killing Isis while your vote is dissapearing and your bank accounts are being cleaned out.

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Yep...+1.***


Feb 10, 2016, 8:46 AM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


This^^^^^^^^^***


Feb 10, 2016, 7:02 PM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]



2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It's not rocket science.


Feb 10, 2016, 12:22 AM

Those with money and power typically (not always) have a vicious thirst for more. Thus they use their monetary might or position to affect change in legislation whether it be through lobbying or something more sinister. One needs only to look at the ever-shrinking income gap between the super-rich class and the rest of us and the weakening of the middle class purchasing power to see proof of that.

Old man Bernie is right in at least one thing, the SuperPAC and other political campaign funding efforts are completely broken. I won't hold my breath that it'll get fixed in my lifetime.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 12:29 AM

Since you had to ask and I assume you are serious. He!! yes the system is corrupt and criminal to boot.

Anybody that pays attention to politics should know that corporate lobbyists write the laws and make campaign contributions to get said laws passed to benefit their special interests.

Congress doesn't represent us any longer than it takes to get elected. They are soon corrupted by money and influence.

And anyone who thinks Hillary Clinton is qualified has no clue.

There's not much difference in the leaders of either party right now. Establishment Republicans have sold us out to global corporations who want cheap labor with mass immigration and foreign workers with H-1B visas taking jobs from Americans for less pay. The middle class will not exist if this continues. They have to be stopped with an outsider as President.

Democrats now have an avowed Socialist as their leading candidate. Hillary's corruption has finally caught up with her. Do you want socialism to be the accepted way of life in the last free country on earth. That's where the Dems want to take us. The middle class will disappear in your lifetime.

We all will be equally miserable with no chance to get ahead.

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yes***


Feb 10, 2016, 12:46 AM



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Yes +1


Feb 10, 2016, 7:20 AM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

Sad state of affairs. And scary, too.

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Whatever choice(s) you make makes you. Choose wisely.


Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 9:01 AM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

Socialism under the new deal created the American middle class.

Don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Wrong bongo!!!!!!


Feb 10, 2016, 10:30 AM

Government doesn't create entire classes of people. People decide what they want to do each day and they take action to do it (or they fail to take action and thus suffer the consequences of inaction). Some people don't make real good decisions because they just suck at life.

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Re: Wrong bongo!!!!!!


Feb 10, 2016, 11:23 AM

Actually the government did. Your philosophical argument doesn't change fact.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: Wrong bongo!!!!!!


Feb 10, 2016, 3:45 PM [ in reply to Wrong bongo!!!!!! ]

> Government doesn't create entire classes of people.
> People decide what they want to do each day and they
> y take action to do it (or they fail to take action
> and thus suffer the consequences of inaction). Some
> people don't make real good decisions because they
> just suck at life.


This is correct. The problem is that some of those people get elected to state or local office. There has to shared power. The federal power has been stupid sometimes but it has been remarkable when at it's best. Were it not for federal power black americans couldn't vote or receive equal pay for the same work. Remember George Wallace standing in the door at the Univ. of Alabama attempting to prevent an african american girl from attending school there?

Your right, some people don't make real good decisions and are unfortunately elected officials. Checks and Balances are critical.

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Again, you get so caught up in the word socialist that you


Feb 10, 2016, 7:04 PM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

fail to listen to what the man says. Democratic socialist. There is a big difference even if you fail to acknowledge it.

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Both sides of the aisle are corrupt***


Feb 10, 2016, 7:58 AM



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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 8:25 AM

My father who is 89 years old told me years ago this country was in trouble. You see, he had a 7th grade civics teacher that taught once the government concentrated its power in Washington, the country was doomed. Power would consolidate, corruption would run amuck, inefficiency would be the new order and we would lose our freedom little by little. The civics teacher, in 1939, had the wisdom to tell her students that if you want government for the people and by the people it needs to be local. A wise lady whose teachings have become true.


Message was edited by: baker5801®


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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 9:03 AM

Yeah America was so much better in 1939 when local politicians were lynching people because of the color of their skin...

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Yep, we are passed the point of no return. We are in decline***


Feb 10, 2016, 1:31 PM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]



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Remember, this guy wanted Patriots to win Super Bowl!!


Feb 10, 2016, 8:44 AM

Mr. Idiot goes to Washington

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Just ask the Clintons!!!***


Feb 10, 2016, 10:24 AM



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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 10:30 AM

absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!it was corrupt before big ears got there and he made it 200% worse

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Crooked Lawyers


Feb 10, 2016, 1:25 PM

So you young people are smart and can think for your self ., Do some research for the answer .,

500 plus men and women make up Congress that pass all our laws ,..98 % of them are lawyers .,

They pass laws that favor lawyers ,. put money in their pocket ,., Judges are lawyers

They make money off of your whole life ,., born ,. married ,. divorced ,. buy a house ,. accident
death ., Not to mention corporate law .,

So make a list of laws that favor regular citizen and make one of the laws that favor lawyers .,

No offense to any lawyers but it is what it is ., example ,. if you owe a lawyer money they can
have you put behind bars until they are paid ,. ask me how I know .,

The whole government is slanted in the favor of the ones that hold a law degree ., Example Clinton
A regular citizen would be on trial for treason ,.

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Re: Crooked Lawyers


Feb 10, 2016, 1:47 PM

"No offense to any lawyers" you can't mean that

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Re: Crooked Lawyers


Feb 10, 2016, 6:09 PM [ in reply to Crooked Lawyers ]

Partially true, I like the saying- if it weren't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers. However, I have only ever used a lawyer once and it was to buy a house. I didn't need one for anything else. I have a few main problems with government.

#1- They waste money in every possible department by way more than is reasonable.
#2- Politicians need terms in every level of government. It shouldn't be a profession. If you are a great Senator then be a great Senator no more than 3 terms. Run for president fine, but can't have a 4th term.
#3- Tax system is incredibly broken. Incidental marriage penalty should be eliminated along with other things. More legislation should be done to prevent the wealthy from loopholes. I'm not saying wealth redistribution but rather if you make 1.2 million- pay your share, not pay half of your share and hide the rest of it in different non taxable areas.
#4- Property taxes are stupid, find another way to get the money without making me pay rent forever to the government.

There are others but I don't feel like expanding further.

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Re: Crooked Lawyers


Feb 10, 2016, 5:52 PM

Getting rid of property taxes just means less money out of your paycheck through income taxes.

Not sure why it makes a difference when you will be paying the same amount?

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


the irony is its coming from a career politician***


Feb 10, 2016, 1:25 PM



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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


Re: the irony is its coming from a career politician***


Feb 10, 2016, 5:35 PM

CU_Tiger_time. You make good sense in a lot of your posts and I enjoy reading them. But your blinking avatar is annoying. If you don't change it I'm going to have Ben Boulware go to your house and eat your car.

TIA

;)

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 1:42 PM

This chit doesn't belong on the board

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This dude supports the bern. He must be unemployed***


Feb 10, 2016, 1:50 PM



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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


Haha.


Feb 10, 2016, 8:50 PM

Wrong.

Obviously you must have been born and raised in SC possibly never left to live anywhere else out of the south for more than a year.

Obviously you don't even have any friends from a different country or have nothing but a mono-topic southern conservative perspective.

Obviously you feel Fox News is the best and only source of information on the planet.

Obviously you believe that major multi-national conglomerates provide most of the employment of this great country.

Obviously you believe that superpacs and Citizen's United were super beneficial to this majority of this country and by no means corrupt the political process.

Obviously you believed in WMDs and thought the Iraq War was a good cost-benefit strategy for the working middle class of America.

Obviously you believe that Wall Street shouldn't be accountable for the biggest transfer of wealth in the world's history from the working class to the rich in 2008.

Obviously you think Glass-Steagle is a bad idea.

Obviously you think that people in poverty is the problem and not the result of a problem.

Obviously you think the war on drugs is worth winning and a good use of tax-payer dollars.

I am sorry if I am making assumptions. I could be wrong. I do work two jobs and go to grad school. Obviously I am a free-loading socialist.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Obviously, his response was the one you were waiting to


Feb 11, 2016, 10:33 PM

Pounce on. I worked two jobs to go to college. Unfortunately, I'm still unable to support going to grad school. Aren't you lucky!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

+1... and then the 'crickets'....***


Feb 12, 2016, 11:52 AM [ in reply to Haha. ]



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In other obvious news, Scientists confirm that


Feb 10, 2016, 1:45 PM

Water is in deed wet.

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Yes, bribery is legal here without campaign


Feb 10, 2016, 1:45 PM

finance reform which the Supreme Court equates with free speech and allows this bribery by ruling laws agains it unconstitutional.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 2:01 PM

I think the only real question would be How corrupt the system actually is. It is definitely corrupt.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 2:33 PM

Yes but the system is also broken not just corrupt. There is too much bureaucracy in a a country that is too large. That is why big government is a bad idea. States that have some oversight but are free to function with a lot of autonomy are more successful. Right now the government is too heavily involved and too wasteful. People could decide by vote and change the system but they aren't educated enough to see through the lies of all the usual suspects.

One thing though, the New Deal alone did not create the Middle Class. Government regulation of industry combined with the New Deal, and jobs created during World War 2 are all factors. In addition, moving into the middle class was easier because people knew how to balance need vs. want. The things that saved America and created the middle class stem from government involvement but it is not as easy as socialists like Bernie make it seem and much of it isn't replicated without war. Besides we still have a strong middle class that just needs better money management and less entitlement. Much of what the New Deal did was prevent the US from falling prey to nationalist and typically aggressive forms of socialism that leads to dictatorships like those in Europe. The New Deal kept young Americans busy doing things that had very little to do with real work such as creating parks, clearing nature trails, etc. Young males who don't have anything to do are the most likely to cause trouble and/or partake in radical movements. family including impoverished ones feel the need to have cable, internet, cell phones, and more than one car. That is nearly a mortgage in those items alone. You can perfectly live with no cell phone, 1 car, a small living space, no tv and no internet on minimum wage hours for 40-50 hours a week.

Here is a case study in moving into the middle class with balance. My grandfather was one of 11 and he finished 5th grade before working on a farm. He went into construction and served in WW2. When he got out he was married and lived a tiny house while working construction. There was 1 phone line, 1 car, and no tv or internet for several years. Over time he moved up and became a supervisor had 4 kids and eventually moved into a modest home that had basic cable. He died without ever owning a cellphone or owning more than 1 car or internet.


People point to homogenous Scandinavian countries as examples of socialism but they are still heavily mixed economies and many are small. Switzerland is similar to Denmark much less socialist and more economically free and arguably happier. France is larger more heterogenous and less successful in their socialist endeavors. The USSR failed and China was failing until they adopted a crony capitalist economy buried within their socialist masked country that suppresses its people.


America needs strong leadership, reform and less government and welfare. As people we need to change our culture away from a need it now entitlement culture.

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people act like corporations are bad.


Feb 10, 2016, 2:38 PM

I guess people don't realize that these corporations also employee thousands of employees. It is easy for a guy like Bernie sanders to attack them when he he never had a job. Not all companies are good, but they still create jobs.

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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


Re: people act like corporations are bad.


Feb 10, 2016, 2:46 PM

I agree, there is a meme that talks about Bernie saying everybody who works 40 hours a week should earn a living wage and the excited puppy says, then quit giving their money to people who work 0 hours a week. Love it. Don't know how to post the image. I missed the Tnet lesson and don't feel like digging.

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Here you go friend


Feb 10, 2016, 2:51 PM
image.jpeg(106.6 K)



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Liability Cola by CU_Tigers_time is now trending on Tnet.


Re: Here you go friend


Feb 10, 2016, 3:03 PM

TU for you.

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Re: people act like corporations are bad.


Feb 10, 2016, 5:41 PM [ in reply to people act like corporations are bad. ]

> I guess people don't realize that these corporations
> also employee thousands of employees. It is easy for
> a guy like Bernie sanders to attack them when he he
> never had a job. Not all companies are good, but they
> still create jobs.

Actually that's inaccurate. Fortune 500 corporations only employ about 7% of the workforce, the rest by small business (less than 100 employees) and the self employed. Now, when is the last time you heard of a self-employed plumber get a federal subsidy or avoid paying taxes altogether?

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Exactly. Small business is being swallowed up along with


Feb 10, 2016, 7:45 PM

the middle class and they pay for everything. It kills me when these idiots think that these multi-national conglomerates employee a bunch of US workers. This is why even Trump doesn't like the TPP. These folk get confused when the conversation turns more complex than ISIS.

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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 10, 2016, 5:51 PM [ in reply to Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt ]

You realize war jobs are bubbles correct? Eventually the demand goes away.

WWII didn't create the middle class. It was the socialist policies like the GI bill that sent those returning veterans to school, helped them but homes and provided opportunities for them to work.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Absolutely.***


Feb 10, 2016, 2:34 PM



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Obviously. I thought you were being sarcastic. Obviously!*


Feb 10, 2016, 5:38 PM

nm

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Of course it is. Does that mean...


Feb 10, 2016, 6:59 PM

that electing a loopy Vermont COMMUNIST is the best solution? Please tell me you're not that dumb.

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Who is communist?


Feb 10, 2016, 7:08 PM

I thought we were having an intelligent conversation then this.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You say socialism, they say communism... Same difference


Feb 10, 2016, 7:12 PM

Both believe in forced charity by the police state.

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How can you argue with that?


Feb 10, 2016, 7:29 PM

A scholar in our mists.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

good you understand that is the case***


Feb 10, 2016, 8:12 PM



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Keep huffing... the bag's getting empty.***


Feb 12, 2016, 12:19 PM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


As long as we have defenders of socialism, the bag is full***


Feb 12, 2016, 3:37 PM



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And I was hoping for an honest conversation...


Feb 11, 2016, 9:44 PM [ in reply to Who is communist? ]

then this.

Here's the simple truth - it wasn't "unfettered capitalism" that "got us here". It was the US government becoming a nanny state to it's own citizens and to the world that got us here... and all the corruption that goes along with that, the widespread fraud and corruption of gov't intervention into healthcare, and a thousand other fiscal overreaches.

I'll say it again, real clear this time so it will sink in: Sanders IS a communist, elected by fellow communist flakes. Ask anyone who escaped Vermont - they'll tell you. I work with several former residents of that state.

If you truly think electing him is the answer to America's problems, smh. Unbelievable. We're approaching $20T in national debt. Do you REALLY want to end up being a peasant? Keep going down the socialist/communist/progressive road and we will, or at least our children will.

Editorial note - I thought better of the personal insults, however well-deserved they may be. So I removed them. I feel VERY strongly about this. I can't believe the America I grew up in would even consider this man as a viable candidate for POTUS. It's unthinkable that there are people in this country who are that foolish.

FT


Message was edited by: Flying Tiger®


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In case you missed it, the Dems and Pubs establishment


Feb 17, 2016, 9:13 AM

created that $20T deficit... I guess your solution is to keep on keeping on with the status quo. You're projecting what might happen and ignoring who got us here to begin with.

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No American is dumb enough to elect a socialist... Only


Feb 10, 2016, 7:09 PM [ in reply to Of course it is. Does that mean... ]

Those who don't like individual rights, individual liberty and property rights would vote for him. And they would be voting against what this country was founded on, which would be un-American. But well within their rights to do so.

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Re: No American is dumb enough to elect a socialist... Only


Feb 10, 2016, 7:32 PM

we did ! TWICE!! and a muslim to beat

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okay, not one that openly admits it***


Feb 10, 2016, 8:11 PM



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Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 11, 2016, 8:27 PM

The system is fine. The people in it and running it are corrupt. The politicians have taken over every aspect of the system. They have placed themselves above the law. And they get away with it. The general American public is too stupid to catch onto their game. They divide us over race, religion, sexual orientation and all sorts of things. All the while they drain the coffers right into their bank accounts. It's time for career politicians to go!

But I do find it funny what happened to BS. It's basically what he is proposing to do to us all. Work for something and have it taken.

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We do Chicken right...it's not just for frying anymore!


Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 11, 2016, 9:08 PM

Hillary beating Bernie would be capitalism at its finest. The guy who works the hardest is beaten by the person with the most money.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 11, 2016, 9:09 PM

Nothing says political corruption like meeting with a tax cheat who's protected by the administration.

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the only good politician is a dead politician.


Re: So Bernie Sanders says the political system is corrupt


Feb 12, 2016, 12:28 AM

Yes. We are corrupt, always will be. Regardless of regime type or system, ever system is tragically flawed. I say that without cynicism.

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