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null [575]
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Interesting question to ponder
Mar 21, 2006, 10:04 PM
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I know this is going to come across as a bash against the Gamecocks but it really isn't... just something I was thinking about earlier this evening while watching a co-worker tensely following the score of the USC-FSU game via computer...
Would you really WANT your team to win the NIT two years in a row???
I personally think the NIT is a nice achievement for some teams who don't make the Big Dance and winning it is a worthy feat but I almost think, as a Clemson fan, I would prefer that my team NOT win it two consecutive years. Winning it once is a nice feat, winning it twice is kind of like telling the world that you are a perpetual bridesmaid.
If I were a USC fan (now that's a sad thought), I would be almost secretly wishing my team was knocked out in the semis or something before someone could mention on national tv that we had 'defended our NIT championship'.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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Here's your answer.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:07 PM
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If you're looking through a wide lens at the big picture, winning the NIT twice in a row is not your goal. We wanted to be in the NCAA's this year and should have been. We failed at that goal. But, now that we are in the NIT, of course I want us to win it, because I want us to win every game we play in every sport we play. That would mean us winning the NIT. It's not like saying "defending NIT champions" is a terrible thing to say about a team. I could think of worse.
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null [575]
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Re: Here's your answer.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:25 PM
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That's a perfectly sensible answer, Bravo, but I still don't think I agree. I wouldn't want to be known as the '2-time defending NIT champs' even if the other option was to have won it once and then lost in a middle round the next year. I really think I would feel the same way if Clemson was in the exact same position South Carolina is now.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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So you would want Clemson to lose?
Mar 21, 2006, 10:27 PM
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That just doesn't register with me, man. I can't imagine wanting us to lose.
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110%er [5630]
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The WORST thing that happens if you win the NIT back to
Mar 21, 2006, 10:29 PM
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back... in my opinion... is that it makes the whole world wonder (even if for just a second) why the hell couldn't you build on the NIT win last year.
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110%er [5094]
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Umm,the Worst thing would not making the NIT at all
Mar 21, 2006, 10:32 PM
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you make no sense at all. We're not Duke...
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110%er [5630]
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Um... what? Did I somehow compare USC to Duke...
Mar 21, 2006, 10:35 PM
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who has won 8 of the last 9 ACC tournaments, and 3 National Championships under K?
We should have gone to the dance this year. ANY team that wins the NIT and returns 4 starters should go dancing the next year. 2 boneheaded losses to lowly UGA (sorry OrleansDawg) cost us a trip to the dance. That's inexplicable.
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110%er [5094]
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Thats the worst thing in sports you can do
Mar 21, 2006, 10:38 PM
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is base the next season off of the previous season. So what we returned four starters, we also lost the most important piece of our team.
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110%er [5630]
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If you look at the numbers during the regular season
Mar 21, 2006, 10:40 PM
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you;d see that we scored exactly the same number of points per game. We gave up one point less per game. And our top 3 scorers were more productive than our top 3 scorers the previous year.
We more than made up for the loss of Powell in the increased numbers provided by Kinsey, Kelley, and Baulkman.
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110%er [5094]
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We never made up for the loss of Powell
Mar 21, 2006, 10:42 PM
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If we had powell this season we would have been in the sweet 16 easily.
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All-TigerNet [12092]
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Bwahahahaha***
Mar 21, 2006, 10:45 PM
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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Re: We never made up for the loss of Powell
Mar 21, 2006, 10:45 PM
[ in reply to We never made up for the loss of Powell ] |
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I agree with you that Powell was a big loss, if only for his fire and leadership on the floor. But I also agree with Toogie in that this team should have been to the NCAA's. Shoot, when I looked at the schedule at the beginning of the year, I had us with only 7 losses in the regular season. I really thought we were good.
Of course, I also have the opinion that our disappointing year was not due to Coach Odom. It was due to a few miracle threes put in by the other team. We just got the short end of the stick. Of course, a couple of those games (UGA and Vandy) shouldn't have come down to that.
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110%er [5630]
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Go look at the numbers.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:46 PM
[ in reply to We never made up for the loss of Powell ] |
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Our numbers were the same. The biggest difference was that our leading 2 scorers last year (Powell and Kelley)averaged 24 points per game; this year our 2 leading scorers (Kinsey and Kelley) averaged 26 points.
We lost focus against UGA this year. THAT's why we aren;t in the dance.
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110%er [5094]
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True our numbers are the same as last year
Mar 21, 2006, 10:48 PM
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because other players got better. However, if those players were better with powell we would have had better numbers this year. The fact is we didn't get better because Powell left, we just barely did enough to stay the same.
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110%er [5630]
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But it wasn;t like Powell left early. We knew that it was
Mar 21, 2006, 10:51 PM
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his last season on game 1 last year. You win the NIT and return 4 starters, you should make a run at the dance the next year. That's just the way things are. And we should have gone dancing if not for a couple of mental lapses.
We won 4 games against tournament teams. 2 of those wins came over a current Sweet 16 team.
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110%er [5094]
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No you shouldn't
Mar 21, 2006, 10:53 PM
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You act like we became a better team because we won the NIT last year. We got worse. We got lucky we may end up being the same as last season.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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I promise you man...
Mar 21, 2006, 10:55 PM
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Ask Coach Odom, the assistant coaches, anybody. This year's team was more talented than last year's. Odom even said this was his best team yet at South Carolina. It was just a matter of not getting the breaks.
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110%er [5094]
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Maybe more talented, but not better
Mar 21, 2006, 10:57 PM
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there is a difference.
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110%er [5630]
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You are not going to be convinced obviously.
Mar 21, 2006, 11:00 PM
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That's ok. I know that USC lastyear played up to their potential. And I know that this year's team could win the NIT and still not have played up top their potential.
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110%er [5630]
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Winning the NIT didn't inherently make us better.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:59 PM
[ in reply to No you shouldn't ] |
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But returning 4 starters (not to mention a numbers of others that had plenty of playing time) with another year of experience makes me think we should have been better this year.
That's not too much to expect.
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null [575]
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Only the second year
Mar 21, 2006, 10:31 PM
[ in reply to So you would want Clemson to lose? ] |
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Again, don't get me wrong, I think winning the NIT is a good accomplishment for programs that are in the position Carolina and Clemson are in (not exactly good but trying to move up in the world). I would want Clemson to win it the first year but I wouldn't want us to be repeat 'champions' in the NIT. It would just serve to underline to us and the rest of the world that we weren't accomplishing the goals we had really set for ourselves.
Perhaps I just think about this differently from most. It seems several Clemson fans have said they would be willing to win it twice in a row.
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null [60]
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Re: Interesting question to ponder
Mar 21, 2006, 10:09 PM
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you know i had never thought about it that way, but you're right. back to back also-ran national championships isn't exactly something to brag about. kind of like all the preseason national championship trophies sitting in the willy b trophy room(and its a VERY small room)
BUT we need to give credit where credit is due, they are still in the tourney and we're not so congrats to them.
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Scholar [4406]
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I wouldn't want them to be in the NIT two years in a row
Mar 21, 2006, 10:09 PM
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(like us). I'd rather win it as long as I was in it though.
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null [780]
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No, No, No...I want my team in the NCAA
Mar 21, 2006, 10:11 PM
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tournament.
I hate the NIT
Maybe it is helpful to the players and coaches but I want them getting NCAA tournament experience
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110%er [5630]
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If we are in the NIT I want to win it.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:11 PM
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But (I cannot deny this) it's a major (that's right "major") disappointment to win the NIT, return 4 starters from that team, and then screw up the regular season forcing yourself to play in the NIT again.
But like I said... if we are in it... win it.
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null [88]
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I doubt most people even remember we won it last year**********
Mar 21, 2006, 10:11 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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You're starting to use COOT logic; there must be coots at
Mar 21, 2006, 10:12 PM
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your work place; am I right?
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All-In [29063]
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I would rather win the NIT two years in a row
Mar 21, 2006, 10:14 PM
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Then go ot the NIT two years in a row and not win it.
We can spin it anyway we want, but the goal of basketball is to win EVERY game you play. Can't say I'd ever want NOT to win any game, including NIT games.
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110%er [5094]
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Better than losing in the First then Second round of the NIT
Mar 21, 2006, 10:16 PM
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two years in a row.
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All-TigerNet [11104]
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Not as good as 63-62 and 82-63***
Mar 21, 2006, 10:26 PM
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Scholar [4406]
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Better known as . . .
Mar 21, 2006, 10:29 PM
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"JUST LIKE FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!"
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110%er [5094]
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Amazing how the USC-Clemson game is a much bigger deal
Mar 21, 2006, 10:31 PM
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to Clemson fans than USC fans. But I guess it's all you got.
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Scholar [4406]
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It's a big deal to us because we win it.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:33 PM
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If you guys won it, it would be a big deal.
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110%er [5094]
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True, but we don't feel the need to base our entire
Mar 21, 2006, 10:35 PM
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success based on beating one team.
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All-TigerNet [11104]
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Mar 21, 2006, 10:38 PM
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Just beat us more than once every 5 years, and then come back and talk to us.
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Scholar [4406]
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We don't base our entire sucess on beating USC
Mar 21, 2006, 10:40 PM
[ in reply to True, but we don't feel the need to base our entire ] |
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Sure it's fun. It's always one of the more fun wins of the year. You are our rival and we love it when we beat you. I would trade our win over USC for a deep run in the ACC tourny or an NCAA apperance. In football, I think our win over FSU was a more important win than our win against you guys (even though both teams were in the top 20). It's just fun to beat y'all.
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110%er [5094]
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What else do you base it off of????
Mar 21, 2006, 10:45 PM
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Lets face it besides beating us, you're no better than we are.
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Scholar [4406]
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Oh yeah. 100 wins isn't much of a difference.
Mar 21, 2006, 10:47 PM
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How stupid of me.
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110%er [5094]
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Well historically we only lose 2 games to you for every game
Mar 21, 2006, 10:50 PM
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we win vs. you. However does that make up for us going 1-8 vs. you in the last 9? No, it's what have you done lately. Not what you've done historically.
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Hall of Famer [24296]
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OK that is easy Clemson has won four in a row
Mar 21, 2006, 10:53 PM
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Is that lately enough for you ?
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110%er [5094]
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You're ignoring the issue
Mar 21, 2006, 10:54 PM
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The issue isn't USC vs. Clemson. You've beaten us, but are you much better overall? No.
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Hall of Famer [24296]
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19 points better***
Mar 21, 2006, 10:55 PM
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110%er [5094]
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I guess you've proven we can't have logical discussions******
Mar 21, 2006, 10:56 PM
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Hall of Famer [24296]
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Not when you caanot accept facts instead of your
Mar 21, 2006, 11:20 PM
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sad perceptions. You need to get out more and read some.
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Scholar [4406]
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110%er [5094]
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Than us, but who else******
Mar 21, 2006, 10:55 PM
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Scholar [4406]
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When did this become about "who else"?
Mar 21, 2006, 10:59 PM
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Your point was that we weren't really any better than you guys other that head to head.
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110%er [5094]
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No it wasn't, it was as a national power******
Mar 21, 2006, 11:01 PM
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Scholar [4406]
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Re: No it wasn't, it was as a national power******
Mar 21, 2006, 11:08 PM
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http://www.thetigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=2552422
As far as the national scene. Both teams have little sucess in basketball. Baseball is good for both teams (we are both in the top 10). As far as football goes, it hasn't even been close lately. We haven't done that much, but there is a considerable gap between the two programs.
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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"Besides beating us, you're no better than we are."
Mar 21, 2006, 10:48 PM
[ in reply to What else do you base it off of???? ] |
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No offense, but isn't that how who's better is decided? On the field/court?
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110%er [5630]
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That is kind of a silly comment.***
Mar 21, 2006, 10:48 PM
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110%er [5094]
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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ACC vs. SEC...I didn't know you were arguing leagues?***
Mar 21, 2006, 10:50 PM
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110%er [5094]
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League = NCAA not ACC vs. SEC******
Mar 21, 2006, 10:51 PM
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All-TigerNet [13161]
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Oh...OK...I guess...***
Mar 21, 2006, 10:52 PM
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110%er [5094]
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null [45]
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Not sure there is ever a good time to lose. Especially.....
Mar 21, 2006, 10:31 PM
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beats getting into the NIT two years straight and getting knocked out both times.
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