Replies: 40
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Orange Blooded [∞]
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Clemson's Offensive Line May Hold the Key to the 2009 Season
Jul 30, 2009, 3:33 PM
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Commissioner [905]
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Thomas Austin Quote
Jul 30, 2009, 3:38 PM
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"To me, there is not a whole lot of difference between the three-point stance and the two-point stance..."
Interesting to hear that from a player since it is often cited on Tnet as a reason for crappy performance.
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Mascot [5090]
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What does he know? The XBox All-Americans on Tigernet
Jul 30, 2009, 3:40 PM
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know better. They all played HS football!
In all seriousness, there isn't that big a difference. Its all about technique and attitude.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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It was a huge problem that would be fixed without Spence
Jul 30, 2009, 3:42 PM
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Now Spence is gone and it isn't a big issue.
Typical.
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Mascot [5090]
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LOL. ^^^^^Exhibit A^^^^^^
Jul 30, 2009, 3:43 PM
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So the All-American player who is actually on the field says it doesn't make a difference but you know better.
Typical
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Totally missed the point, I dont' have the first clue which
Jul 30, 2009, 3:46 PM
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is better.
Its about the difference in the story, when Spence was the anti-christ and preached the 2 point stance it was this huge issue and we got rid of spence and were ridding the program of this cancerous 2 point stance.
Now Spence is gone, and it isn't a big deal.
Typical, kind of like when want a recruit and he is great but when he commits somewhere else we didn't want him anyway..........remember Albert Haynesworth? All over this board after he went to Tenn "we didn't want him anyway" Ya right.
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Mascot [5090]
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Then you are barking up the wrong tree. Go back and look.
Jul 30, 2009, 3:53 PM
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I never once said it was a big deal because its not. Its about technique and attitude. If you have proper technique, the 2 point stance is every bit as effective as a 3 point stance in the vast majority of situations.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Not YOU #### it, the fan base in general.***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:58 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Not YOU #### it, the fan base in general.***
Jul 31, 2009, 1:39 PM
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Calm down. You guys actually agree with each other.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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Commissioner [905]
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Who is right? Thomas Austin?***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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"to me" doesn't make it universal.***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:51 PM
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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I think that's what i said, don't try to confuse me***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:51 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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5 point for hawt sechsing***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:53 PM
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Commissioner [905]
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W T F ??***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Obvious problem is you can't broadcast your plays with your
Jul 30, 2009, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to I think that's what i said, don't try to confuse me*** ] |
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stance each down. You sort of need to either do one or the other as a general policy, and Spence was one of the few that actually have 2 point as a standard stance for both guards and both tackles. It was a fully upright line.
He had a good track record at Toledo and everyone liked him when he was the "mad scientist" and an offensive genius. Amazing how things change.........
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Legend [15525]
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Re: Obvious problem is you can't broadcast your plays with your
Aug 1, 2009, 9:46 PM
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If he were really a mad scientist or an offensive genius, then I'm a nuclear physicist, and I'm not close to that. The key to winning games is with the linemen whipping the guys in front of them. Finesse will only take you so far, but at some point you have to be able to impose your will.
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Athletic Dir [875]
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Good Oline should be able to do both out of both
Jul 30, 2009, 3:55 PM
[ in reply to Other way, 3 point for run blocking and 2 point for pass ] |
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I played 2 years of D2 football, I was taught there and at most camps that there shouldnt be much difference between them. You actually dont put much weight on you hand in a 3 point stance. many coaches like to walk up and kick your hand out and see if you fall over. You should not.
The really good O-linemen can make their fingers change color to trick the D-line. Put more pressure on your hand so your knuckles turn white, but you can still pass set well, and vice versa
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All-TigerNet [11074]
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from the no #### sherlock file, David Hood presents...***
Jul 30, 2009, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to Thomas Austin Quote ] |
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Fan [68]
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Re: Thomas Austin Quote
Jul 30, 2009, 8:44 PM
[ in reply to Thomas Austin Quote ] |
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T. Austin may not have (he's been at it for a while now), but some others have. Being upright is what caused a lot of the younger kids problems outside of not having the same set of starters for half of the year. The line had a tendency to stand up (a no no for either side of the ball) coming out of the two point stance which eliminated any leverage they had. The good defensive linemen (GT, Nebraska, Alabama & Wake) took advantage of that and got under the pads of the line at times. The inconsistent lineups contributed to missed assignments. While Brad Scott is responsible for getting his linemen out of bad footwork/technique, a good coordinator is responsible for recognizing weakness in the overall offensive unit and adjusting. Spence was not good at adjusting to his personnel. If the three point stance had a chance to help the younger kids from a mental standpoint, Spence could have let it happened. But just like Spence is reponsible for the play calling being very predictable, Scott is reponsible for the poor technique of his line.
What VegasTigerGrad said above is right, fundamentally the 2 pt and 3 pt are equally effective overall, but you have to get in the proper stance before that ever happens. An improper 3-pt stance leads to a player putting weight on the hand which gives great leverage forward but limits you laterally. Improper 2-pt stance gives you lateral freedom but if you're too high (center of gravity) you'll lose leverage at the point of attack (and get knocked on your bottom sometimes).
I think both of our front lines (defense and offense) played too high. In an article that came out when Coach Brooks first came to watch the team practice, he had that observation of our d-line playing too high. I think both sides will improve in the trenches if they correct those areas.
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Mascot [5090]
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Water is wet. Fire is hot. I'm about to get banned***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:39 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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for stating the obvious?
Jul 30, 2009, 3:41 PM
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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OT has been sited as a thin area for the coming season
Jul 30, 2009, 3:41 PM
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where we can't afford injuries.
That being said, JK Jay was going to be relied on for depth and maybe even push for the RT spot in a battle with Walker and Lambert.
However, given his recent issue and the potential of a RS that could be a major blow to our OL rotation and competition this year.
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All-Conference [418]
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Re: OT has been sited as a thin area for the coming season
Jul 30, 2009, 4:05 PM
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Everybody has injuries. Tommy was held accountable last year in spite of these injuries. So every head coach should. NO excuses.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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germans***
Jul 30, 2009, 3:43 PM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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But Oklahoma and Florida have injuries***
Jul 30, 2009, 4:14 PM
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Orange Blooded [4558]
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A certain Sr. offensive lineman is vastly overrated.
Jul 30, 2009, 5:18 PM
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He may be the glue that holds them together, but his performance on the field leaves alot to be desired. All I've seen is high passes on snaps vs. BC in 2007, and getting manhandled by Cody of Bama in the 1st game and by Suh in the last game against Nebraska. Flame all you want, but it's the truth.
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Re: A certain Sr. offensive lineman is vastly overrated.
Jul 30, 2009, 5:30 PM
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are Cody and Suh good Dlinemen? uh yeah, they kinda are. Might be the 2 best he saw all season.
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Orange Blooded [4558]
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Still no excuse.***
Jul 30, 2009, 6:02 PM
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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everyone is entitled to an opinion I guess***
Jul 30, 2009, 6:12 PM
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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Phil Steele??? 9th best in the nation - are you kidding me?
Jul 30, 2009, 7:26 PM
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How does a group that was probably the worst in the ACC go to 9th best in the nation by virtue of having a vacation from football?
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Mascot [5090]
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What people who say things like you just said fail to
Jul 30, 2009, 7:29 PM
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realize is that this is NOT the group that was so bad last year. For the first 6 games last year, we had 6 different OL starting line-ups. We were absolutely decimated by injuries on the line last year. It was the latter part of the season before we got any continuity there. Once we were able to start the same 5 guys a couple times in a row, we were able to move the football and win some games.
This group is good. They just have to stay healthy.
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Fan [68]
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I agree, the talent is there...
Jul 30, 2009, 8:56 PM
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and when things settled down in the second half of the season it started to show. The line will be stronger and more mature. If Scott and Pearman have worked on the weaknesses (technique & footwork) this line could be close to or better than the 2007 line.
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Fan [50]
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Re: I agree, the talent is there...
Jul 30, 2009, 9:34 PM
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When its third and short, fourth and short, and running the ball, GET IN A 3 POINT STANCE! A real one. This disguising stuff is overrated. The best teams win by imposing their will.
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CU Guru [1863]
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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NO - sorry
Jul 31, 2009, 10:07 AM
[ in reply to What people who say things like you just said fail to ] |
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Look I don't want to criticize our team but let's be honest - whenever Clemson played a GOOD team our running game was stopped cold. Dead - Zero - no life at all. Spiller + Davis + < 50 yards.
Now are they better than that? Yeah, fine I sure hope so. But we aren't talking about are they in the top 5 of the ACC - he's got us ranked #9 in the country!!!
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Enthusiast [84]
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If we score more points than the other team we may win games
Jul 31, 2009, 12:02 PM
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That's about the only more obvious pre-season commentary that he could have said.
I want them to be great, don't get me wrong. But just because they've had another year to play & develop doesn't mean they'll be better. Call it that feeling of been there done that from being jaded by Bowden/Spence, but I'll wait to see how well they do on the field. Besides, even Duke eventually plays with senior linemen, and just b/c they've played some games doesn't mean they're good.
And tough guys don't talk about being tough, they just are tough and let everyone else do the talking for them.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: Clemson's Offensive Line May Hold the Key to the 2009 Season
Jul 31, 2009, 6:09 PM
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No S**t Sherlock
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Orange Blooded [2775]
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Based on last year I assume we will
Jul 31, 2009, 6:56 PM
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have the guards down in 3 point most of the time. Other than obvious run situations, I imagine the tackles will stay up.
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Legend [15525]
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Re: Clemson's Offensive Line May Hold the Key to the 2009 Season
Aug 1, 2009, 1:24 PM
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As a former Tiger OL, albeit not a good one, I can say that Cherokee Tiger gets it. I know that when I was lower than the guy in front of me, I had a better chance of whipping him, if he were lower, it was much more difficult. In certain run situations, especially short yardage and goal line it is more important to be lower. In pass blocking situations, it was easier for me to get back into proper position from a 2 point stance. I do think the more upright tendency that comes from being in the 2 point stance contributed to more knee and ankle injuries. JMO, but that was my experience.
G
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