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Replies: 30
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110%er [5298]
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OT and Tiger Thom
Jul 2, 2009, 2:31 PM
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I would like to start out by saying I think you two are despicable. Better men than either of you two will ever be have died to make sure you can live your life free from fear. The only reason you are able to peacefully lay your head to rest at night is because better men than you stand ready to do horrible things to anyone who would try and harm you. I think both of you would should have joined the military if you care as much about the constitution as you both claim you do. You guys just love fighting this war behind your computer, so why dont you get out and do it in real life.
I actually fought in this war. I got in many firefights and killed a few people during my time in Baghdad, I didnt hide behind the walls of a FOB like so many others. I have actually dealt with Al Qaeda in Iraq and many other terrorist groups and I find it to be the biggest of jokes that you want to talk about morality when it comes to fighting a war.
Let me tell you a little bit about morality. On a hot summer day in June of 2005 I watched from an observation post as over 20 headless and mutilated bodies were pulled from the Tigris river. I was there when a suicide bomber blew up a soldier surrounded by a group of children and killed or wounded all but a few. I saw the half charred body of a young child lying on the street after a car bomb that was supposed to take out the foot patrol I was in detonated prematurely. I have seen the torture chambers where Saddam's men brutally tortured innocent people. I have seen all of this with my own eyes and it is sickening to see men who call themselves Americans get their panties in a twist when we waterboard someone to try to get intel to stop things like that from happening. You claim waterboarding is as bad as brutalizing and beheading someone, and I am here to tell you it is not.
I love how everyone is all about supporting their troops until it comes to actually doing just that. The fact that you asked is it OK for the captured GI to be tortured is enough for me to realize that you would sacrifice a soldier if it would further your political ideals and that sickens me.
If you call yourselves Americans, then I am ashamed to be one.
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110%er [7709]
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^^^^seriously, best post ever***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:36 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Get this man a cold beer..put it on phi's tab.***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:37 PM
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Heisman Winner [138607]
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Joined: 10/22/00
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Thank you for your service.
Jul 2, 2009, 2:38 PM
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I'm glad you're not in charge.
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110%er [7709]
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Joined: 10/1/03
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thank you for not serving***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:40 PM
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Heisman Winner [138607]
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Thank you too.***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:41 PM
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110%er [7709]
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Joined: 10/1/03
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I know you are, but what am I***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:41 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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Joined: 8/2/03
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WHAMMY!***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:42 PM
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Heisman Winner [138607]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 10/22/00
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You and summey should probably sign up for the same
Jul 2, 2009, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to I know you are, but what am I*** ] |
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reading comprehension class if you think that ot and Thom were arguing that the Taliban should be allowed to torture captured Americans.
But I guess if you're going to be completely blinded by patriotism, this is the weekend to do it.
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110%er [7709]
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OH SNAP...you can't comprehend what they be writin', sucka***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Joined: 5/14/03
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Thank you for your service. I did not serve but certainly
Jul 2, 2009, 2:44 PM
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would do anything to aid the cause of a captured American (military or not).
The fact my brother is a Major in the Marine Corps and I have several close friends in the military (growing up in a military household, you grow up with other military families and a high rate of your childhood friends end up in the military) really makes you thikn twice when people you know could be in these situations.
And for anyone who hasn't watched the gruesome videos available that show what kind of torture they put our people through (many were captured civilians), try watching it then comment on any moral equivelancy. I couldn't sleep for almost a full week after seeing one of them.
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Heisman Winner [136137]
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Joined: 12/6/98
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I flew Apache Tomcat Errors in the war.
Jul 2, 2009, 2:48 PM
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But I don't like to talk about it.
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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Civil?***
Jul 2, 2009, 2:49 PM
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Heisman Winner [136137]
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Joined: 12/6/98
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I try to be.******
Jul 2, 2009, 2:49 PM
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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Joined: 8/19/03
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Its not fair.
Jul 2, 2009, 3:24 PM
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No one gets set up like that but you. No one.
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All-TigerNet [12277]
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All-In [32001]
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Joined: 11/22/03
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Good post. I was with you until the next to last paragraph..
Jul 2, 2009, 2:52 PM
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I'm not sure I equate the point he was trying to make to "you would sacrifice a soldier if it would further your political ideals".
Outside of that...great post and thanks for your service.
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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Pretty dang embarrassing I thought.***
Jul 2, 2009, 3:19 PM
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All-In [29050]
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First, thank you
Jul 2, 2009, 2:52 PM
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And I mean the genuinely. Thank you for your service. I come from a military family and have a great respect for those that serve. One of my bigger regrets in life is not serving, and once I reached that realization it was too late. But before I aaddress your post I just want to make sure you realize I am grateful for your service.
That said, I find it odd that you'd equate your service and my dislike for the thought of us torturing individuals. Let me start by saying I have never said that waterboarding and beheading were the same thing. That is a false argument and one which is used to dismiss instead of address an issue. Do I like that we waterboarded... no. Do I think it is torture... yes. However, that doesn't make it the same thing as beheading. Of course our enemies do worse. No one is saying they don't. But them doing worse doesn't make what we did right. This isn't a relative scale.
I took OT's original post as a debate point and not any sort of honest wish that the soldier be tortured. I wouldn't in the slightest ever wish harm to any of our soldiers. But I am being consistent when I say I think torture is wrong no matter who does the torture and who is being tortured.
I'll ask the same question I've asked before, do you believe that absolutely anything goes in war. That we as a nation should be free to behave however we wish and claim ourselves justified for any action at all.
If the answer is no then our debate becomes about where to draw the line, and more intlligent people than you or I will have to hash that out. If your answer is yes, then we are become barbarians, and I would hope for better for our nation.
Again, thank you for your service, and know that none of this is in any way attacking our nation and those who defend it.
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Hall of Famer [22445]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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You left that strawman in pieces!
Jul 2, 2009, 2:54 PM
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Thanks for your service to our great country.
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Zealot [801]
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Joined: 6/26/03
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Wait. So you're bitching about them taking advantage
Jul 2, 2009, 3:02 PM
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of freedoms you're bragging about protecting for them?
I think I'm lost.
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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Joined: 11/29/99
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You're actually bragging about fighting in a war on a message
Jul 2, 2009, 3:18 PM
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board?
Has anyone ever defended the morality of our enemies on here?
I have no problem with torture used by us on people who we know are terrorists.
I do have a problem using it on terror suspects.
Tiger Thom is one of the most reasonable people on here.
You have a lot to learn about life and people.
Message was edited by: josephg®
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110%er [7709]
TigerPulse: 23%
Posts: 6964
Joined: 10/1/03
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^^^this must be Phi's scok....
Jul 2, 2009, 3:49 PM
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"You have a lot to learn about life and people." What kind of pompous jackarse says that besides Phi?
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 11/29/99
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Anyone who attacks Tiger Thom, one of the most
Jul 2, 2009, 4:04 PM
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reasonable people on here and one pretty devoid of partisan politics, as some kind of anti-American nut, does have much to learn.
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110%er [5630]
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Exactly.***
Jul 2, 2009, 4:08 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Arm chair quarterbacking is 100%. Thanks for your service.***
Jul 2, 2009, 3:23 PM
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110%er [5630]
TigerPulse: 42%
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Joined: 9/27/01
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That we do not engage in the atrocities you describe,
Jul 2, 2009, 3:42 PM
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including waterboarding, is what separates us from the likes of Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, et al.
It think it's unfortunate that you, who so courageously put your life in harm's way is unwilling to see that.
You don't see the US military beheading young journalists on state TV right? Why do you think that is?
Military strength is one thing. And we have that in spades by the way. But leading by example is another.
And you simply cannot over-throw a tyrant to the tune of freedom and equality, and then engage in any practice that would dent that image. You cannot open yourself up to cries of hypocrisy.
Having had a grandfather that stormed the bneaches at Normandy, and survived a German POW camp, who also saw the horrible things done in that War first hand, I can tell you right now... it did not make him want to be more like the enemy.
I truly appreciate your service. i cannot imagin what you have been through. But those who have not served are no less American... whether you agree with them or not.
by the way... you don't know tiger thom... obviously.
Message was edited by: Toogie®
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Orange Blooded [4120]
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well said and...
Jul 2, 2009, 7:47 PM
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the folks you talk about have no idea what is lurking on "the other side of the wall". they truly believe that their idyllic subdivision is a microcosm of the world and i am here to say that they are wrong either due to being naive or unpatriotic.
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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Joined: 11/29/99
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LOL.***
Jul 2, 2009, 8:40 PM
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All-In [39020]
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I don't even need to read thom and ot's posts to know
Jul 3, 2009, 5:28 AM
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that they did not, in any way, indicate that they would accept dead American soldiers to advance their political causes. What a pathetic attack to direct at somebody. You and those who pointed your post should be ashamed at the blatant appeals to the basest of nationalistic emotion designed to further your own political cause.
No cursory thanks for your service either, you seem to have a big enough ego about it already.
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110%er [8142]
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I'd point you again if I could.***
Jul 3, 2009, 11:40 AM
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