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Commentary: Seat Equity Plan Another Part Of 'The Game'
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Commentary: Seat Equity Plan Another Part Of 'The Game'


Aug 16, 2007, 9:08 PM

Commentary: Seat Equity Plan Another Part Of 'The Game'

New plan to be fully unveiled next week to Clemson fan base. Full Story »


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Seat Equity


Aug 16, 2007, 10:06 PM

" The fact is that every ticket holder with a prime ticket will be given a chance to keep those seats. They'll be given first shot, as a matter of fact."

I would not be shocked to see 85/90% of the holders of lower deck tickets between the 40's pony up the money and keep those tickets. Will that free up enough tickets so the $10000 donor can get a more equitable seats?

Also let's remember that the seat equity program will be corrected for the market again in 5 years. It is always about money.

LONG gone are days of "Ten for Howard, Five for Poole. Just fifteen dollars for the whole #### school" :^)

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Re: Seat Equity


Aug 17, 2007, 7:34 AM

I agree with you. The majority will do what they have to do.

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"You don't get control of the game when you're air-balling layups." - Brent Venables


Re: Seat Equity


Aug 17, 2007, 7:01 PM

There's other things they could do like auctioning off the rights to the tickets to another fan/booster or company (hopefully it won't turn into a company networking event and fans will still get those seats) or splitting up the tickets & selling off the rest to cover their cost, etc.

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Thank you. Winning comes at a cost even for fans.


Aug 17, 2007, 12:50 AM

Tony
Baton Rouge

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Have you ever sat in one of those 'prime' locations.........


Aug 17, 2007, 1:16 AM

I only sat in the lower deck, home side, b/w the 40's one time, and I promised myself I'd never do it again. Most of those people only come out of habit, show no enthusiasm (me, my cousin,& some drunk guy were the only people within 2 sections yelling or cheering),and were mostly 60 or older. Nothing against our elderly supporters, but I'd much rather be with the TRUE fans in the cheap seats up top yelling my head off and having some support in doing so. Maybe this seat shakeup will bring a little more life to the lower home crowd.

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true that. If it wan't for the Students in the lower deck,


Aug 17, 2007, 7:54 AM

take the students out and you can take a nap down there.

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"True fans"


Aug 17, 2007, 8:06 AM [ in reply to Have you ever sat in one of those 'prime' locations......... ]

It's a little amusing as well as a little disappointing to hear people critcised as not being "TRUE fans" simply because they have grown older and may not have the vigor to carry on like an 18 year old. I appreciate the supporters that have given to IPTAY in whatever amounts for years. They are the folks that built and sustained our school through difficult years. They are the ones that helped build what exists today. I appreciate our older fans that faithfully come to every home game despite the heat and the hills and the traffic.I think they are an integral part of the special Clemson heritage Frankly, the new plan will in some cases be more for corporate donors and not bring in "True" fans.

As far as the reseating plan, it is about money. I am not opposed to it. I do however belive that it should recognize that some of these folk who have premium seats gave $100 when it was probably equivalent to $2800 today. I believe it would be fairer to them if IPTAY somehow incorporated the time value of their contributions into the plan.

This does not effect me personally but I feel for our more senior donors who cannot afford now to pay the premium and Clemson may be a large part of their lifes.

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Re: "True fans"


Aug 17, 2007, 9:27 AM

With all due respect, if you gave $100 30 years ago, it wouldn't be worth anything close to $2800.

Using an inflation formula, you can determine that $100 given in 1967 would be worth only $600.27 in 2006.

People love to say that what i gave 30 years ago would be worth the required giving price in 2007, but that just isn't the case. Old time members are getting a sweet heart deal and while it's fair to honor their commitment through the lean years and times, it's time to make a change.

It's time to quit screwing people who are giving more in today's dollars, then old time members who are only giving 1/5 of what it would cost to sit in that seat 30 years ago w/ inflation.

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Simple Fix


Aug 17, 2007, 10:15 AM

If we really want to clean all this up why don't we look into the people over 100 years old that are ordering season tickets. I wonder how many of those are out there. As for the "old-timers", hey lets show a little class for these folks. I mean lets face it, how many folks are giving $10,000 and letting their company pay for it. In "real dollars" what are they really spending? Should somebody giving $140 a year sit on the 50 yard line? No, but neither should a 30 year old who is ordering under a relatives name.

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i can't wait to read the release...


Aug 17, 2007, 11:41 AM

i don't think it'll be right to totally kick the "old timers" as they've been dubed, out...but at the same time don't think they should be able to have 10 or more tickets on around the 50 for a couple hundred bucks...i'm not sure the answer, maybe they could keep two for the same amount or give more. At the same time i find it hard to believe that many 10k a year donors are sitting in the upper deck, i'm sure there are some but not that many,

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There are some up there, but I venture to say that there are


Aug 17, 2007, 1:26 PM

some upperdeck tickets I would rather have than mine which are in lower north next to the visitor's section. I think for the most part saying they are up there is for the shock factor because there are actually some pretty good seats up there.

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Not just inflation to account for


Aug 17, 2007, 12:25 PM [ in reply to Re: "True fans" ]

When looking at time value of money, you have to figure what it would be worth at some rate of return each year if it had been invested somewhere else.

I personally cannot think of a better rate of return than getting to spend 5-7 Saturdays each fall watching Clemson football, but they could have invested it elsewhere.

No matter what happens, certain "true fans" will get screwed, people will find ways to manipulate the system, and people will find reasons to complain.

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Inflation is not the appropriate factor, return on


Aug 17, 2007, 1:22 PM [ in reply to Re: "True fans" ]

investment may be since many things appreciate in value more quickly that inflation, and many of those old donations were not merely in cash.

To a large extent people want to know what was done for them lately, but the forget that there were some pretty significant gifts made in the past that were necessary to even get us to where we are today. Clemson has not always be in the top 20 in attendance. Some of those old timers helped build the program, you could consider them the venture capitalists for our athletic businesses.

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I like the figures but the facts are just a tad off


Aug 17, 2007, 5:01 PM [ in reply to Re: "True fans" ]

1967 would've been 40 years ago, not 30

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Re: Commentary: Seat Equity Plan Another Part Of 'The Game'


Aug 17, 2007, 12:56 PM

I'm always amused at the position media personnel take on subjects such as Re-seating, national championship playoff, etc. These are people who never pay for a ticket to a game, get free seating at the game and, in the case of a national playoff effort, wouldn't pay a dime to see their team, regardless of how far their team went in the playoffs.

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Re: Commentary: Seat Equity Plan Another Part Of 'The Game'


Aug 17, 2007, 3:34 PM

Clemson competed at the highest level in the early 80s, and the guys at the top (not the fans) ran off Danny Ford.
He was a guy never charged with anything.

You are right Dan, it is about the money. All the crap that will be spewed out over the next weeks are just that. Monet talks, and the faithful who paid to build this program - walk.

College football is nothing what it once was. It is just too bad, the money guys can't hook up to the pro teams.

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Re: Commentary: Seat Equity Plan Another Part Of 'The Game'


Aug 17, 2007, 5:14 PM

It is my understanding that some employees of Clemson receive tickets and never pay a dime to Iptay or for the tickets. Will this practice be stopped????

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Excellent question***


Aug 17, 2007, 6:59 PM



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Bill Cowher


Aug 17, 2007, 5:36 PM

Is Bill Cowher coming to Clemson?

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Why are there so many people who think they are going to get


Aug 17, 2007, 7:02 PM

screwed?
I would imagine that the plan is going to be inline with our current system. I think that the athletic department?s goal will be to force us to pay the price for what our seat?s cost anyway. From what I remember, might be a little off, but the breakdown is sort of like this. If you give the following you are given the opportunity to buy the following number of seats.
$140 2 tickets $70 a seat
$350 2 tickets $175 a seat middle range
$700 4 tickets $175 a seat middle range
$1400 6 tickets $233 a seat
$2100 6 tickets $350 a seat
$2800 8 tickets $350 a seat
5,000 10 tickets $500 a seat
10,000 16 tickets $625 a seat
Since the bulk of our IPTAY membership is somewhere in the $140-$2100 range I would imagine that most of the seats outside of the 45?s on both sides are worth a donation of $175 per seat in the eyes of the athletic department. So at worst case, the supporter who have given $140 dollars and only get two tickets will have to increase there donation from $140 a year, to $350 a year to keep there awesome seats. That?s an increase of $17.50 a month. I know older people are on a fixed income. But from what I have observed from the old people I have delt with (and these are in the non-IPTAY lot (ie.poor people)) is that they are not that poor. Heck they are usually the ones putting on the tailgate for the rest of the families!
Now what I suspect this might due is force the people, who have been only giving at minimum levels and have purchased more tickets than there donation allows, to significantly increase there donation to keep the tickets that they have purchased before. I am not heart broken about that. I want grandma and grandpa to enjoy the game and they can have the awesome seats, but there kids and grand-kids can come on up to the upper deck with the rest of us new generation tigers if their grandparents cant afford it. I know the school takes into account ?legacy? when letting kids in, but the tuition is still the same for us all once we get in the doors! This should be no different with respect to tickets. And further, I imagine most will still purchase the extra tickets that they usually buy, and simply pass that cost onto the people that buy them, or to the people they use to get them for. This is still cool with me, as long as Clemson is getting the revenue it needs from each seat.
Again this is based on my belief that the Athletic Department will be reasonable with the seat equity plan. Which I think they will half to be, if you look at the demographics of our support base (140-2100 donars). In the end we still have a big stadium to fill and there is no way we can do it by completely eliminating the bottom half of the support group.

I will say this, I believe the athletic department might also want to concentrate on making the different seating areas (upper deck, lower deck, west zone) unique. What I mean by this, is say putting permanent seat backs in the upper deck seats. The lower deck has the advantage of being closer to action, but maybe the upper deck can be more comfortable. So much emphasis is given to the lower deck, that maybe its time to focus on some improvements to the upper deck that will make it more desirable. From seeing a few posts on here from the people that love the upper deck seats with the seat backs I believe it could work. It would also show that Clemson does care about that part of the fan base,and is interested in there enjoyment as well. But that?s just an idea.

Regardless, I am looking forward to another awesome year of Clemson Football!
Go Tigers.
LNT

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Legacy


Aug 18, 2007, 9:07 PM

BTW, the university no longer takes legacy into the admissions process. Crying shame. Good post.

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Myths


Aug 19, 2007, 8:08 AM

It seems to me that the idea that there are all these sweet old people who sit between the 40s who are about to get screwed is a giant myth. The idea that the older fan between the 40s is living off social security and has to clip coupons to afford his $140/year IPTAY contribution and his tickets is, frankly, very hard to swallow.

I'm sure there are older fans between the 40s who are not affluent and are exceptions to what I am about to write. But when I walk around Clemson and tailgate, I don't see a lot of poor people. I see a lot of upper middle class to wealthy people. I see a lot of older folks in big, fancy cars who park pretty far from the stadium. Let's face it... most of these people have Clemson educations so they are going to be successful!

I'd love to see the wealth demographics on the older donors between the 40s. I bet a lot of them have plenty of cash and are just cheap. I know a lot of rich people, and most of them are skinflints. That's how they got to be rich.

So for the RICH donor sitting between the 40s who pays $140/year.... I've got NO sympathy for you. Stroke the check or make room.

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