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Orange Blooded [∞]
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Commentary: Seems Bowden Was Right All Along
Oct 23, 2006, 3:26 PM
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Hall of Famer [22942]
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We were scared of Duke spending $20 on facilities?
Oct 23, 2006, 3:28 PM
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What did they buy? A new pylon?
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null [678]
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They bought a poster of Coach K giving a thumbs-up.***
Oct 23, 2006, 3:32 PM
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110%er [9771]
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Must be signed.***
Oct 23, 2006, 3:43 PM
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CU Guru [1334]
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110%er [6768]
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CU Guru [1866]
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Expert [1662]
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Gone, outta here, see ya, adios . . . .
Oct 23, 2006, 3:34 PM
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Nice article Dan, but those words were a little harsh for guys who went down while on the field playing their hearts out. Just my opinion.
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CU Guru [1866]
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Meant to emphasize the severity of the injuries and...
Oct 23, 2006, 3:38 PM
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...potential devastation to the lineup. Not a personal attack. Chill out...and thanks for reading.
DAN SCOTT
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110%er [6768]
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LOL. You don't have to yell your name to us! We know who
Oct 23, 2006, 3:41 PM
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you are!
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CU Guru [1866]
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Always sign that way so no one can accuse me of hiding...
Oct 23, 2006, 3:49 PM
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...behind a fake name.
HUGH JASS
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110%er [6768]
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LOL!
Oct 23, 2006, 3:54 PM
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Excellent story Hugh.
Message was edited by: FootballFan36®
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Follower [155]
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null [202]
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Amen to that!***
Oct 23, 2006, 3:36 PM
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110%er [6768]
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Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You think if
Oct 23, 2006, 3:40 PM
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Temple spent 30 million dollars on facilities, that they would have a top notch program in 3 years? Doubt it. Truth is the resurgence of our football team is due to more than just facilities upgrades alone. Although the upgrades do help tremendously.
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Legend [15863]
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reptiles and eggs first !!!!***
Oct 23, 2006, 3:44 PM
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Orange Blooded [2328]
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Right on the money, DAN SCOTT ! Duke's 20 spot hasn't
Oct 23, 2006, 3:49 PM
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panned out for them quite yet. But give it time. Once Coach K dies, that signed poster might be worth DOUBLE that !
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All-Conference [444]
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If you look at it logically - every school that pumped $$
Oct 23, 2006, 3:58 PM
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into thier facilities should have better recruits and better teams. With That logic, NC State should be unbeaten and ranked #1. I'm not totally disagreeing here, but there is more to it than JUST facilities.
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Know-it-all [2370]
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Give credit to the recruiters
Oct 23, 2006, 4:17 PM
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the recruited, but not the facilities. I do not buy it.
Dan's own article contradicts itself. FSU? Great facilities. They suck.
NC State has made great investments. They suck.
Duke? 20 million dollars. Money well spent I'm sure. That's a lot of money per victory.
UNC is given a lot of credit for their facilities. (I dunno I've never been there). They're doing great as well.
UVA has spent a lot lately.
From a Birmingham News article earlier this year:
Despite more and more research that suggests there is no direct correlation between athletic success and spending, or between increased spending and athletic success increasing either student applications or donations to the university’s general fund, athletic departments keep spending - and athletic directors keep sounding the “we need more sources of revenue” alarm.
And from from the P&C about coaching changes
In 2002, the average age of Clemson’s nine assistants was 48. Now it’s 42. And Brad Scott, a 51-year-old offensive line coach who is one of three assistants remaining from Bowden’s original 1999 staff, said the infusion of new ideas has also brought a measure of rejuvenation.”It’s been a great move on coach Bowden’s part to hire not only young coaches, but young coaches that are extremely knowledgeable about the game,” Scott said. “I think some of the older guys that have been around a little bit, it kind of brings a little more enthusiasm and energy to us as well.”
It’s probably not a coincidence that Clemson’s recruiting has improved dramatically since Bowden decided to seek out some young guns.
The 2004 class, though not highly regarded by recruiting services, has proved to be far better than the so-called experts believed.
And let's look at the coaches. Blackwell - 4th year at Clemson Burns - 8th year Koenning - 2nd year Napier - 1st year Rumph - 1st year Scott - 8th Spence - 2nd Swinney - 4th West - 8th
I don't follow recruiting much, but it seems that Blackwell and Swinney are the best, and that they showed up about the same time as the ground breaking. I'll give them the credit.
The point is, there are way too many variables to sit back and point at facilities and say "yup, that did it." If anything, facilities are an investment in your coach. They're a way to placate a guy, boost his ego, and make him stay. Otherwise he might go somewhere else.
I like the WEZ. I hope the players like it. I don't think it deserves that much credit for our current success.
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Trainer [31]
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Re: Add a couple more to the list to make it complete...
Oct 23, 2006, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to If you look at it logically - every school that pumped $$ ] |
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Good recruiters Fat contract extension for Head Coach Excellent fan base
Facilities alone won't do it. It was just another piece of the puzzle we needed.
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CU Guru [1631]
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There is a time to harp on facilities..it's not after a loss***
Oct 23, 2006, 3:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [2837]
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UNC and NCST should be...oh wait a sec...hmmmmm***
Oct 23, 2006, 4:00 PM
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Orange Blooded [2328]
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CU Guru [1631]
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Last time I checked Facilities didn't block or tackle******
Oct 23, 2006, 4:08 PM
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null [517]
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Nope; but they help get the folks that do.***
Oct 23, 2006, 9:14 PM
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CU Guru [1631]
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Nice, off topic response*****
Oct 24, 2006, 7:18 AM
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Orange Blooded [2328]
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Huh ? Off topic ?***
Oct 24, 2006, 11:28 AM
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110%er [6009]
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null [19]
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Re: Commentary: Seems Bowden Was Right All Along
Oct 23, 2006, 4:06 PM
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RIGHT ON!!!
It drove me crazy when so many people thought our facilities were up to par. They were so sub-par at that stage and I was more than utterly thrilled when Bowden came out and started begging and arguing for new facilities. Tommy has shown he knows how to build a program. (notice the phrase "build", not pull "out of a hat overnight"). How long did it take Frank Beamer, Bobby Bowden, Houston Nutt, and even Danny Ford to take programs from below repetitive non-rankings to consistent top 25 teams. The answer is several to a lot of 6-8 win seasons, and even some losing seasons. Tommy hasn't even had one yet, and has had his tigers eligible for bowls. It drives me crazy when fans often forget to look at the big picture and Tommy's entire tenure at Clemson and the accomplishments he's achieved already. They will toss 9-3 against ranked oppponents right out the window after one loss to an inferior team. EVERY GOOD TEAM WILL LOSE (or almost lose) A STUPID GAME HERE AND THERE, and even have mediocre 6-8 win seasons. Just this year, Georgia to Vandy, Tennessee to Air Force, Auburn to Carolina and others come to mind. Bowden has put together the finest top to bottom staff in the country, elevated recruiting more steps in the past 4 years than any other team in that time, created a talent depth never before seen in Clemson football, brought a first class team facility and club area, increased average attendance, loves Clemson more than anything, and is here to lead us back to familiar territory with the elite. Come along and enjoy the ride. Be careful though, it's full of thrills and yes, maybe even some bumps...
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Orange Blooded [2837]
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You know what drives me crazy? Paragraphs. I hate em.***
Oct 23, 2006, 4:09 PM
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null [12]
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110%er [6009]
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Yeah, you're missing something. He posted
Oct 24, 2006, 12:40 PM
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"lose (or almost lose)".
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CU Guru [1823]
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Don't forget to thank TDP and to a lesser extent B. Robinson
Oct 23, 2006, 4:09 PM
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as well. Robinson started the push with Tiger Pride and TDP has taken the improvements to a new level with the WEZ and facility upgrades for other sports- really every sport. Say what you will about Bobby Robinson, but he did get the ball rolling on improvements.
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CU Guru [1352]
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Tell it Dan! How easily people like to forget!! Those are
Oct 23, 2006, 4:36 PM
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the same people that rant and rave after every loss, wanting someone fired or questioning this and that, then we win some and everything is fine until the next loss comes around.
Nice article! The truth hurts.
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Addict [413]
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Does anyone remember??
Oct 23, 2006, 4:54 PM
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Some of you haven't heard CJ Spillers comments on why he came here. Or what about James Davis' comments. Oh yeah, Rickey Sapp. All three of these guys, and I'm sure there are others, acknowledged the West Endzone project as a sign that Clemson was serious about football once again. Heck, Spiller's comments could have been used as an advertisement for facilities. Ring a bell? Anyone? Bueller?
We built a monster of a stadium years ago and it was more impressive than just about anything in the nation. What followed? A National Championship. Then we sat on it for 30 years and didn't do anything significant. We were not only caught but we were passed by almost everyone in the ACC and SEC, the folks we recruit against.
We can all pretend like facilities don't matter just to prove a point. But sorry folks, I'm going to take the word of the coaching staff who does this for a living (recruiting) and the word of the recruits themselves. They all say it does and now it seems as if they have the proof to back that up.
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Junkie [503]
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AMEN Brother ! Well put you get a point for that post.***
Oct 23, 2006, 5:22 PM
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All-American [579]
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Re: Does anyone remember??
Oct 23, 2006, 5:29 PM
[ in reply to Does anyone remember?? ] |
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If all these folks you named were allowed to answer, I think I know where they would give the credit- for our new found "success".........I believe and want to keep believing that they are Christians who truly love Christ (and it shows in how they represent themselves) and when they point upwards...they TRULY are giving Thanks. And as far as why Spiller is at Clemson, you would have to ask him for the many reasons, but I believe BELIEVERS want to be around other BELIEVERS (as we know we need each other), and at Clemson there are many who don't mind sharing their faith, and it starts at the top with Tommy Bowden and his coaching staff- even in the newspapers! Wow! I am a Clemson grad of 1980 and I have never been more proud of that as I know there are great things happening at my school and it may have nothing to do with football.........GO TIGERS!
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null [30]
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FACILITIES DON'T HELP YOU GET PLAYERS, BUT THEY CAN HELP YOU
Oct 23, 2006, 5:46 PM
[ in reply to Does anyone remember?? ] |
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LOSE THEM!!
Your're ignorant if you think otherwise.
Best reply I've seen BENMILS!
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Know-it-all [2370]
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There's a lot to say
Oct 23, 2006, 5:52 PM
[ in reply to Does anyone remember?? ] |
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things like:
- good coaches win without great stadiums. - bad coaches lose with great great stadiums. - two of our best recruits lately, james cumbie and willy korn didn't commit because any buildings. They loved Clemson, period. - Spiller has made numerous comments about being sold on Clemson by James Davis, and by coach Bowden, and a true belief in the commitment to the run, among other things.
Beyond that, though, let's do a mental exercise on the importance of facilities. I don't think there's any reason to say that Clemson now has the best facilities. I expect it could be argued that we're up there, but I doubt we're "the best." Presumably, other schools that recruited Spiller, Davis, Sapp, etc have top-notch facilities. For some reason, however, other schools' top-notch facilities lost out to our top-notch facilities... and for recruits from 2 or 3 years ago, othe schools facilities lost out to a pile of dirt.
I have to believe that many of the players we have now -- ya know, including all those 4th and 5th year guys -- have benefitted from great coaching, hard work, and two excellent new coordinators.
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Addict [413]
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Don't give a building all the credit or all the blame...
Oct 24, 2006, 12:44 PM
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at least I'm not. If the only formula for winning was the best facilities in the nation we wouldn't need to play the games. We could just look at everyones buildings and decide from there. OF COURSE there is more to a team than just facilities.
There are better facilities still out there and probably at schools that recruited Spiller and others. We got them anyway but maybe we wouldn't have if we didn't have some visible signs of a commitment to football.
I heard Bowden say that he had five dumptruck loads of dirt dumped in the parking lot along with two loaders as soon as the plans for the West Endzone was announced. Ironically it was right before recruits visited. Why? Because perception quickly becomes reality and he wanted to creat the perception that we were about to expand!
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: Commentary: Seems Bowden Was Right
Oct 23, 2006, 5:24 PM
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Well I agree there needs to be a lot of reaching out to Tommy Bowden. He has grown into a good head coach at the same time the facilities are being completed. We have gone up several notches in recruited talent. How people forget Danny was run off over athletic dorms. Things have changed. It appears for the better. Sat was a new day dawing at Clemson. What will be the future we have been reaching for. There is still work to do and we need to be prepared for a possible step back next year for a quantum leap forward in 2008 The new day where Freshman play like Jrs. A top recruiting enters followed by but yet a higher ranked prospective recruitng class. Go Tigers - Thank you Tommy for your perseverance.
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null [51]
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Here is my problem with all of this
Oct 23, 2006, 6:37 PM
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…while I agree that facilities are a key ingredient that we must have to compete at the national level, it is not the only ingredient. Tradition, loyal fans, and national recognition are also key. And everything is circular…it is hard to have one without the other. In my estimation, facilities were Clemson’s missing ingredient for the past 20 years and now that is fixed…so now I have a different concern.
I worry that we could be starting down the road of a Georgia Tech, where $ is king, and loyalty comes in a distant 3rd. If we all start beating the ‘facilities’ drum too much, that will put pressure on ticket prices, and that will push part of what makes Clemson so special – loyal fans – right out of the door. Goto a GT game and see all of the ‘corporate’ seats empty (easy to spot, they are the lower deck seats between the 30s). Sure, they have nice facilities because of the $, but no one goes to their games unless it is FSU or Note Dame (and even when they do, it cannot compare to the magic of Death Valley). I hope we avoid that trap.
Just remember, next time we talk about facilities, it is not the only thing to keep up…there is a balance that has to be maintained.
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Standout [303]
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There are many pieces of the puzzle.
Oct 23, 2006, 6:42 PM
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I don't think Dan was implying that facilities are the ONLY reason for our success. I believe that there are several factors that determine your success in recruiting and winning. Some of these are coaching staff (recruiting, teaching, game management, academic emphasis), support from the university (i.e. One Clemson), facilities, tradition, recent success etc. If a couple of these are missing, it will most definitely impact your success. If you have great facilities but are missing some of the other critical pieces, you will still not have success.
I think Dan was saying that while Clemson has been in pretty good shape in most of these areas (specifically head coach), we were still missing a major piece of the puzzle. By filling this missing piece (even though not as well as some of the other schools have filled it) we have taken our program to another level.
If anything, the immediate success indicates that we already had a good coaching staff in place when ground was broken, but I don't dispute the fact that the staff has been improved greatly by wise hires and wise delegation by Tommy Bowden. The improvement in our staff solidified another piece of the puzzle and has most definitely added to the recent success.
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null [95]
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great article, Dan...right on the money******
Oct 23, 2006, 7:38 PM
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null [12]
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Re: great article, Dan...right on the money******
Oct 23, 2006, 7:45 PM
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Am I missing something or what??? Did Auburn lose to the Chickens???
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All-American [585]
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I thought Hamlin was back for the Ga Tech game. is he still
Oct 23, 2006, 8:37 PM
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out????
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Scout Team [161]
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He's been back for a few games now.***
Oct 24, 2006, 10:48 AM
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Mascot [18]
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I somewhat disagree with you Dan.
Oct 23, 2006, 9:21 PM
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I appreciate your work and am an avid fan of yours, but I still don't completely buy that whole facilities stuff. It helps, but beating Tennessee,Florida State (3-4) and Miami goes along way in recruiting the backups that we have playing. I am not saying that you are wrong just not looking at the whole picture. You have to have both to compete.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Tommy was correct, but Danny was correct before him.
Oct 23, 2006, 10:03 PM
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Only difference was Danny got axed (thanks for the NC) and Tommy is getting what he wanted.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Tommy was correct, but Danny was correct before him.
Oct 23, 2006, 10:06 PM
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Only difference was Danny got axed (thanks for the NC) and Tommy is getting what he wanted.
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Aficionado [150]
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Re: Commentary: Seems Bowden Was Right All Along
Oct 24, 2006, 9:44 AM
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HHMMM! Seems to me many of these posts are missing a very impotant point. I don't think Dan EVER intended to suggest that facilities are the ONLY factor in recruiting, and, yet, my reading of many posts appears to criticize him for that. Sorry!! I don't understand!!!
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Amateur [34]
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Is it a coincidence that we have changed the offense since
Oct 24, 2006, 9:57 AM
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Lets not forget the more important change that has been made. In the last 3 years we have fired an o- cordinator and a def- cordinator. I think the main reason we are better is doing away with the crappy spread offense. Run Run Run.
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Amateur [33]
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Re: Commentary: Seems Bowden Was Right All Along
Oct 24, 2006, 11:16 AM
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I think he was partly right.Yes facilities are a nice decoration with all their glitz and shine,but also the hiring of Spence and Koennig has had just a little something to do with the success now.As great as our offense has performed I believe Koennig has done an outstanding job having to repeatedly replace parts and keep right on going.That is where I give Tommy the credit.He brought in the right people and is letting them do their job.The facilities just make their jobs a little easier.
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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this article is absolutely rignt!***
Oct 24, 2006, 12:51 PM
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: Commentary: Seems Bowden Was Right All Along
Oct 24, 2006, 7:04 PM
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It appears some think that both recruiters and recruits would come if death valley were a cornfield. They wouldn't. As for NC and NCS, They may be recruiting to their best ability but Clemson was not. The west end zone don't block or tackle, neither do the fans, but theres not gonna be much of a game without them. Was, in my opinion, a right on article.
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