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Ring of Honor [22922]
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My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 9:38 AM
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I haven't had my coffee this morning so hopefully these thoughts are easy to follow....
Under OP we had the chance to turn the corner with our basketball program. He had our team hot and in the national spotlight due to fun style of play and winning ball games.
Unfortunately, He and TDP/admin. butted heads over facilities upgrades needed to take that next step. In the end he became frustrated with lack of support and decided to leave for a new opportunity.
Since then our program has definitely taken a few steps backwards under Brownell. I don't agree with the extension given by DRad, but when it comes down to it TDP screwed the pooch with OP.
Our facilities are currently being "renovated" and none of us are sure how it will turn out. Unfortunately, I think the only way the AD/Admin. are going to buy in and approve funneling more funds to bball is for us to be successful again on the national level. They should've committed the first time around.
If Brownell is retained hopefully next year is his break out year. If we have a new coach hopefully we can begin to build and turn that corner again. Once that's done the Fans have to support the program and show the AD/Admin. that we want more money diverted to Basketball.
Unfortunately, College sports have become an arms race with facilities to entice top recruits. We all know that there is something special in these hills and the kids that come to Clemson see that. We've spent lots of money on football and we see how successful that program has become(obviously we needed the right coach first). Our Baseball team looks to be headed the right direction under Lee and hopefully we continue to spend on improvements for those facilities. Basketball looks to be the last ship to right and hopefully that starts next year in the newly reno'd LJ.
In the end it all starts with the right coach and school environment, then you add in facilities and you get the players you need to win.
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Clemson Icon [24793]
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I don't think there was anything TDP could do to keep OP.
Mar 15, 2016, 9:42 AM
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I don't think his wife liked living in Clemson.
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: I don't think there was anything TDP could do to keep OP.
Mar 15, 2016, 9:43 AM
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I keep seeing that on here, but am wondering if that's just hearsay. Until recently I'd never heard that.
I do know for a fact that they kept shutting him down on his push for upgraded facilities though.
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Clemson Icon [24793]
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I met her in Charleston when they were in town for the CoC
Mar 15, 2016, 9:51 AM
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November tournament they do every year. While, I only spoke with her for a few minutes, my immediate reaction was to wonder how much longer she could last in Clemson. While, that is not a scientific method of analysis, it was the feeling I got. Clemson vs Chicago? That is as dramatic a change of venue as one could imagine.
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TigerNet Elite [69899]
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They spent nine years in Dayton....
Mar 15, 2016, 9:56 AM
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Dayton !!!! That's closer to Indiana than Ohio.
Before that, they were in Norfolk and Radford for six years.
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Clemson Icon [24793]
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Dayton has 10 times as many people and Norfolk has 20 times
Mar 15, 2016, 10:02 AM
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as many people as Clemson and both are far less homogeneous.
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TigerNet Elite [69899]
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and that's a bad thing !?!?!
Mar 15, 2016, 10:05 AM
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CU Medallion [18838]
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Re: They spent nine years in Dayton....
Mar 15, 2016, 5:18 PM
[ in reply to They spent nine years in Dayton.... ] |
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Dayton is closer to Cincinnati than Indiana. I spent 3 years there one winter.
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TigerNet Elite [69899]
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I think you're right....
Mar 15, 2016, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to I don't think there was anything TDP could do to keep OP. ] |
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Once OP made up his mind to leave, I don't think there was anything TDP could have done to retain him.
However, TDP is to blame for allowing the relationship to deteriorated to that point and acting like he had no clue how OP felt.
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TigerNet Elite [69899]
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Honestly....
Mar 15, 2016, 9:45 AM
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If Brownell is retained, I'm not sure why anyone would expect next year to be any different than the last few let alone a break out year.
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: Honestly....
Mar 15, 2016, 9:46 AM
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I agree and don't expect anything to change, just wishful thinking.
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TigerNet Elite [69899]
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Especially if JB leaves for the NBA***
Mar 15, 2016, 9:49 AM
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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I would expect us to be better if...
Mar 15, 2016, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to Honestly.... ] |
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Blossongame returns and we add these guys...
Shelton Mitchel pg 6ft 3
Marcquies Reed g 6ft 4
Scott Spencer true frosh 6ft 6 sg/sf Supposedly can shoot the 3.
Elijah Thomas 6ft 8 or 9 250 Rated highly out of HS, but sucked at A&M averaging 3 pts per game.
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TigerNet Immortal [175737]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 9:56 AM
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I think new facilities are like fancy cars; they lure the recruits in. The upgrades to LJ can only help. I hope JB comes back. I've heard we have some transfers that are supposed to be good. I hope we do not have a great year next year and hand out another extension at seasons end. I liked Oliver Purnell and his teams seem to play the entire 40 minutes, especially on defense. He pressed more. GT did that to Clemson in the second half and we couldn't handle it.
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Clemson Icon [27759]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 10:50 AM
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I love the posts from Clemson 'fans' who say that they hope the teams are unsuccessful. What would we do without you???. Go Tigers. All In
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TigerNet Immortal [175737]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: My take on Facilities and Success ] |
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I went back and reread my post and I see what you're saying and I may have wrongly typed what I meant. What I mean to say is that I hope another extension is not handed to BB just because he has a good year next year. We all know it'll hurt if JB leaves for the NBA. The transfers, I've heard are supposed to "help" immediately and if BB does get a contract extension, it is based on several years of improved play by Clemson mens basketball.
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Clemson Icon [27759]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 11:11 AM
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So you are saying if coach Brownell has a good year next season, with or without Blossongame, he should be fired? I don't believe a contract extension is an issue right now.
The Mitchell kid who transferred from Vandy is a guy who will really help the club. I don't know much about the Texas A M transfer except he was a top fifty player in high school so he should fit it nicely. Grantham,Devoe and Hudson will likely improve in the off season and Djitke will help also. Blossongame returning would be great but that may not happen. The leading scorer for coachBB leaves every year it seems It would be great if we could get a top notch freshman scorer but BB hasn't shown that he can do that. What Clemsn coach has?
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TigerNet Immortal [175737]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 11:29 AM
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no...i'm not saying he should be fired. I think a lot of coaches are given contract extensions based on one year. They come in, have one or two decent years and then the third year they make the ncaas, beat a couple of above avg. teams, get to the round of 16 or even the elite 8. Then they are given a contract extension and do not do crap from there on out. Maybe I'm wrong but I've seen it a several times.
I agree on your take on the players. JB coming back would be huge!!! From what I've heard, the A&M transfer is well above avg. player. It's hard to bring a top notch freshman in to Clemson going up against the other schools around here, Duke, UNC, Virginia, even Kentucky and Louisville.
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All-Pro [709]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 11:10 AM
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Nice facilities isn't all it takes to have success on the court. We generally don't get the top players as we all know. A big named coach might get some better players butbetter kids who have a chance to play in higher class programs, even in our conference, want to play on those teams and not Clemson. Brownell isn't the problem.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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TLDR***
Mar 15, 2016, 11:28 AM
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Rock Defender [56]
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The Real Reason OP Left...
Mar 15, 2016, 11:42 AM
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It wasn't him butting heads with TDP. It wasn't the fact that his wife didn't like living in Clemson.
It was the fact that she caught him in a compromising position with another athletic department administrator, who by the way, is still there.
Go back in the Tigernet archives at that time and check out the de-tails.
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Varsity [104]
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People say the same thing about Barnes........
Mar 15, 2016, 2:19 PM
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it's funny when the two best coaches we have ever had left for more money. People can't seem to understand why. Then they make up stuff like this.
OP and Barnes left because Clemson would not do what it took to get to the next level (for Barnes it was beating UNC/Dean Smith and OP is was upgrades), so they took the money and ran.
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Tiger Titan [50928]
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THIS.
Mar 15, 2016, 2:55 PM
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It's amazing how many excuses Clemson fans try to make as to why we lose coache, including rumored affairs, Clemson being a rural school, SC not being a great state for basketball, to frustration over Tobacco Road.
The reality is that we are a school too enamored with football, to the point that we do not fund or support basketball like we need to. It's that simple. If we fund basketball better, and do so consistently, we will no longer have the reputation as "just a football school" and instead be known as "a football and basketball school." We would also become less of a stepping stone job and more of a destination job.
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Game Changer [1672]
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How did the trip to Depaul turn our for
Mar 15, 2016, 12:40 PM
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OP?
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110%er [7719]
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Re: How did the trip to Depaul turn our for
Mar 15, 2016, 12:49 PM
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What does that have to do with anything?
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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CU Medallion [18261]
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5 mentions in less than an hour? Somebody's got an
Mar 15, 2016, 1:26 PM
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obsession
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Varsity [104]
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He made a #### ton of $$$$$
Mar 15, 2016, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to How did the trip to Depaul turn our for ] |
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more than if he had stayed at Clemson. He was the 9th highest paid coach when he took over DePaul.
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Ring of Honor [22394]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Good points overall ... I thing that OP's decline began when
Mar 15, 2016, 1:06 PM
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He tried to turn the corner in recruiting and chose to go after true blue chippers instead of the solid, athletic players he'd been successful with.
When he did that, he either came up dry, or got faux-blue chippers like Milton Jennings and Devin Booker who wouldn't have produced for OP even if he'd stayed.
When he lost Terrence Oglesby out of the blue, it was also a bad sign.
I'm afraid that OP's brand of high octane hoops worked well up to a point and then he hit a ceiling and wasn't capable of exceeding that level at Clemson. I felt as though Rick Barnes also tried a novel tactic of "Bully Ball" that worked for a while in the ACC, but eventually failed because the conference decided not to allow it. Barnes then also tried to up the caliber his recruiting toward the end and came up dry on several top players that could have been true difference makers. So he left for Texas where he was able to get the type of players he needed to succeed.
That's the real bottom line problem at Clemson ... recruiting obstacles ... regardless of who is in the coaching position.
Always has been and probably always will be. Maybe upgraded facilities will help either Brad Brownell or the next guy, but I'm not holding my breath.
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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where was OP's decline?
Mar 15, 2016, 1:27 PM
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are you talking about losing in the NCAAT?
if not, when did the program decline under him?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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what handle did you used to go by before you had to switch?***
Mar 15, 2016, 1:34 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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It declined pretty rapidly when he quit ...
Mar 15, 2016, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to where was OP's decline? ] |
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... but, he quit because he saw it was in decline.
It was pretty clear to anyone at the time that his program at Clemson had peaked. His average ACC finish for his entire tenure at Clemson was 7th place.
He got our hopes up when he recruited Milton Jennings, Devin Booker, and Noel Johnson and if his program was ever going to become a legitimate contender in the ACC, those guys would have to make it happen. Unfortunately, he saw them play as freshmen and he knew they could never live up to their recruiting hype. That sealed the deal. OP was history.
If you want to ignore the fact that he blew town before the decline became absolutely obvious, then that's up to you.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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08 was without a doubt his best team...I agree with you that
Mar 15, 2016, 2:29 PM
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he walked before we made him run
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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so, you're saying
Mar 15, 2016, 2:33 PM
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that at 6 or 7 yr mark op should have either walked or clemson would run him off? and based off his somewhat successful track record within tigers hoops program, it was time for him to leave?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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he had peaked in 08 and it was going downhill even
Mar 15, 2016, 2:38 PM
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faster with his last class so he got out while he could still get a big payday....I don't have a problem with him leaving, it was the how that bothered me
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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so....
Mar 15, 2016, 2:41 PM
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if it was time and he had peaked, after 6 or 7 seasons, does that not mean the same thing for bb? seems he has peaked. should he walk or should clemson tell him to run?
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Varsity [104]
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CBB peaked in year 1
Mar 15, 2016, 2:44 PM
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What does that tell you?
OP peaked in year 6 or 7.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Based on his record, OP could have stayed 3-4 more years
Mar 15, 2016, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to so.... ] |
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if he chosen to. Clemson was not going to fire him any time soon based on his record.
I don't know of anybody on T-Net who was yelling for OP's job at the time he quit.
I think OP himself, knew that he couldn't sustain what he was doing and his end at Clemson somewhere down the line would not be pretty. He got a huge offer from DePaul, and he jumped on it.
Either way, Oliver Purnell's career probably ended in the same fashion.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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I agree***
Mar 15, 2016, 2:50 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: I remember a large number of people, maybe even the majority
Mar 15, 2016, 2:58 PM
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yep, I'd love to go back to the days where simply making the NCAAT wasn't enough for our fans....
He!! at this point most of our fanbase would be elated over a NIT berth....
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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As evident from the last time we made the NIT and
Mar 15, 2016, 2:59 PM
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gave our coach an extension and buyout clause
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CU Medallion [18261]
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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thank goodness that's no longer an issue***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:03 PM
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CU Medallion [18261]
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what handle did you use before Snowtown?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:04 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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He was 117. Note the fact 117 stopped posting
Mar 15, 2016, 3:06 PM
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around the time Snowtown started posting
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110%er [7719]
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Re: He was 117. Note the fact 117 stopped posting
Mar 15, 2016, 3:07 PM
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GWP might be onto something here.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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ahahahahahaha***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:08 PM
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CU Medallion [18261]
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Clemson Conqueror [11421]
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CU Medallion [18261]
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he makes the NCAA next year or we make him run***
Mar 15, 2016, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to so.... ] |
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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so,
Mar 15, 2016, 2:56 PM
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we should go with the mantra "wait till next year" - like the cocklovers do in all sports? that's where we disagree.
to quote Rage Against the Machine: "it has to start somewhere. it has to start sometime. what
better place than here. what better time than now"
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CU Medallion [18261]
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difference being this is the first year I said it***
Mar 15, 2016, 2:57 PM
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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link????
Mar 15, 2016, 3:01 PM
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CU Medallion [18261]
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feel free to provide one where I said it before this year
Mar 15, 2016, 3:05 PM
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I'll be waiting
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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Re: feel free to provide one where I said it before this year
Mar 15, 2016, 3:10 PM
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too tired to research - plus, that was sarcasm due to the link battle you guys were having.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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I know, I get jokes***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:11 PM
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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like our hoops record the past 6 seasons??
Mar 15, 2016, 3:15 PM
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because that one is a hoot!
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: he had peaked in 08 and it was going downhill even
Mar 15, 2016, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to he had peaked in 08 and it was going downhill even ] |
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So after 7 years and 3 straight NCAAs(6 straight postseason appearances) Clemson was going to run OP off?? However, after 6 years and not making the postseason in 2 straight years(missing it completely 4 out of 6) Brownell gets to stick around....
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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No, Clemson was not going to run OP off any time soon
Mar 15, 2016, 2:52 PM
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He made that decision on his own.
I believe it was an educated decision based not on what he had accomplished, but what he thought he could do moving forward.
The offer from DePaul was economically a no brainer for a guy who probably saw where he'd be at Clemson in 4-5 years.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: I didn't say immediately....we forced out Ellis, it's not
Mar 15, 2016, 2:56 PM
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"he walked before we made him run"
you insinuate that it was a foregone conclusion that he would've been run off....
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CU Medallion [18261]
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and I meant it, but nowhere did I mention immediately***
Mar 15, 2016, 2:58 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Do you have a link to where you weren't thinking
Mar 15, 2016, 3:01 PM
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that in your mind but didn't actually post it CM Shack?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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That's my point, you didn't mention it but you were
Mar 15, 2016, 3:05 PM
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thinking it. If I'm wrong about what you were thinking, then provide a link that proves it.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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I don't have to, I didn't mention a time frame***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:07 PM
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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CU Medallion [18261]
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I answered, you should try it sometime "Snowtown"***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:16 PM
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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110%er [7719]
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Re: and I meant it, but nowhere did I mention immediately***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:06 PM
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Yea not sure what he is basing that off of. There was nothing showing that OP was about to have a fall off.
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: and I meant it, but nowhere did I mention immediately***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:11 PM
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exactly....based on the factual information he doesn't think it would've been immediate, but he's certain it would've eventually happened....
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Think OP left because he saw it getting better here?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:13 PM
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: Think OP left because he saw it getting better here?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:16 PM
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OP leaving and OP being run off are 2 different things...try to keep up...
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Like it hasn't happened before? Cliff was just as, if not
Mar 15, 2016, 3:18 PM
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MORE(I would say more) successful, how did it turn out for him?
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: Like it hasn't happened before? Cliff was just as, if not
Mar 15, 2016, 3:24 PM
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Ellis took us to the postseason at a lesser clip than OP. 8 out of 10 vs 6 out of 7.
He had one great year at Clemson(sweet 16), after which he went a combined 60-60 and 17-45 in the ACC
What facts can you present that show a decline was on the way for OP?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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What facts can you present that show a decline was on the
Mar 15, 2016, 3:27 PM
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way for OP? I'll give you 4....Milt, Dev, Noel, and Donte
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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So you don't think those players would've been better
Mar 15, 2016, 3:29 PM
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in OP's system? You're not providing facts, those are opinions.
Don't forget he also had Marcus Thornton coming in.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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no... no I don't***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:30 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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So a top 10 recruiting class brought in to run
Mar 15, 2016, 3:39 PM
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a press defense and transition offense, then adding in Mr Basketball from the state of Georgia, who was also recruited for OP's system wouldn't have fared well because they didn't play well in a slow half-court system? And you call those "facts?"
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CU Medallion [18261]
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did they look good in that system as Fr?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:44 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Well, they were freshmen, so there's that.
Mar 15, 2016, 3:49 PM
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And we never got to see Thornton in that system.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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so how do we know Marcus would have even helped? what
Mar 15, 2016, 3:52 PM
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are YOU basing that off of?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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I'm basing that off of OP's track record of recruiting and
Mar 15, 2016, 3:55 PM
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reaching post season tournaments with players he recruited for his system. Then again, I'm not the one stating opinions and claiming them to be facts.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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so you can project but I can't?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:56 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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My projections are based on what OP had
Mar 15, 2016, 4:01 PM
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accomplished with his recruits and his system. My projections are my opinions.
Your projections are your opinions, which is fine. There's no way to concretely say who is right and who is wrong.
The problem is you call your projections/opinions "facts." See the difference? So to put it in a formula:
opinions =/= facts
Kinda like 1.7 > 1.5
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CU Medallion [18261]
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except I never said 1.7 > 1.5, that was another of your
Mar 15, 2016, 4:07 PM
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projections, certainly can't prove I ever said that
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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so you don't think 1.7 > 1.5?
Mar 15, 2016, 4:08 PM
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are you a moron?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Re: so you don't think 1.7 > 1.5?***
Mar 15, 2016, 4:12 PM
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 .
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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I must admit, I'm concerned
Mar 15, 2016, 4:30 PM
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coachmac may strip me of my award and give it to you after your "typo"
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CU Medallion [18261]
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I think you're safe, mine was an honest mistake***
Mar 15, 2016, 4:31 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Unlike mine in which I pointed out it was
Mar 15, 2016, 4:33 PM
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ridiculous to say the team's downfall was when Blossomgame elevated his game?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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you're asking the wrong person guy***
Mar 15, 2016, 4:37 PM
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Gridiron Giant [15208]
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Re: Unlike mine in which I pointed out it was
Mar 15, 2016, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to Unlike mine in which I pointed out it was ] |
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not to start anything. that would be unlike me. but i was just wondering. when did each of you that want coach brownell ran off also want coach swinney "rund oft". was it the 6-7 year, 1st coot loss, 2nd coot loss, 3rd coot loss, 4th coot loss, 5th coot loss. no fair lying. brad has one more year. looks to have some pretty good players on the bench in street clothes. can we just not wait and see how next year goes. it will play out the right way.
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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Re: Unlike mine in which I pointed out it was
Mar 15, 2016, 4:50 PM
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who wanted dabo gone? in 2012 you could tell tigers were trending up. a couple of losses to the cocklovers a few yrs back mean nothing in the scheme of things - except to those idiots. all has righted itself. do we as fans deserve to see how this "plays out" another yr? and, are we to assume, or hope, that no other acc teams are getting better so that bb has a chance to prove himself for the 7th straight season??
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Those are fair questions
Mar 15, 2016, 4:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Unlike mine in which I pointed out it was ] |
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I had doubts after the 6-7 year, and I particularly didn't like how Kyle Parker ran down the hill on senior day. I don't recall ever wanting him fired or run off though. Even during the coot win streak, it was pretty easy to see progress being made. I don't see that kind of progress with the basketball team. During the 5-year streak Dabo still managed to win an ACC Championship and made it to 2 BCS games. When there was a problem, he fixed it.
With Brad, he inherited a team that had been to the NCAA Tourney 3 straight years. He made it 4 in a row. I was in CBB's corner and always felt confident when he was drawing up plays. The lean years after his NCAA year was excusable because he had to get his players in. But once he did get his players he didn't make progress. Aside from an NIT run with KJ, he hasn't accomplished anything. After last year I was done with him. After this year, I really don't want to wait another year to hope these transfers pan out. I'd rather have new life in the program and get a fresh start.
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: What facts can you present that show a decline was on the
Mar 15, 2016, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to What facts can you present that show a decline was on the ] |
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LOL, 2 guys that left because of Brownell, and 2 other guys that weren't in the system they signed up for.
How can you prove they wouldn't have fared better under OP?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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did Noel ever find his ideal situation? Was Donte an ACC
Mar 15, 2016, 3:31 PM
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caliber player?
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: did Noel ever find his ideal situation? Was Donte an ACC
Mar 15, 2016, 3:42 PM
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We'll never know because OP left.
That's the point. You can't definitively say that those guys in that class would've led to OP's decline.
All things are not equal.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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OP didn't have to stay for us to see Donte was in over his
Mar 15, 2016, 3:45 PM
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head and Noel's ideal situation was to not play d but chuck a lot of 3s
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: OP didn't have to stay for us to see Donte was in over his
Mar 15, 2016, 3:48 PM
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Again, you can say for a FACT that none of those guys would've fared better under OP?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Noel didn't play well anywhere...fact***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:50 PM
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: Noel didn't play well anywhere...fact***
Mar 15, 2016, 4:01 PM
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Keep deflecting....
You can't PROVE what you've said because it can't be done. That's the only FACT here.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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can you tell me where Noel played well?
Mar 15, 2016, 4:02 PM
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I'll hang up and listen
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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CU Medallion [18261]
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I proved Noel sucked***
Mar 15, 2016, 4:24 PM
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Why wait? What has he done to earn another year?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:13 PM
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CU Medallion [18261]
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because if we make the NCAAT he stays?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:15 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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So you actually have hope that after 2 years of not even
Mar 15, 2016, 3:26 PM
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making the NIT, 5 years of not making the NCAA tourney, and only 2 post season appearances in 6 years (including only making the NIT with an NBA player on the roster), that next year we'll be NC2A bound?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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looks like DRad does and that's all that matters no?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:28 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Link to where Drad has hope we'll make the tournament
Mar 15, 2016, 3:30 PM
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with CBB next year?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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"we can set the record straight right here"....Do you think
Mar 15, 2016, 3:33 PM
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DRad wants to MISS next year's NCAAT?
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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wow... you are an
Mar 15, 2016, 3:34 PM
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idiot
and your deflecting, or whatever it is, is getting worse
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CU Medallion [18261]
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anytime you're ready to answer the question Claire, until
Mar 15, 2016, 3:37 PM
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then, that is the only response you deserve
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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No, I don't. I also think DRad would want Clemson to
Mar 15, 2016, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to "we can set the record straight right here"....Do you think ] |
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win the NCAA Tournament next year, but that doesn't mean he thinks CBB is the man to even get us back to the tournament. I'm not convinced CBB won't be fired within the next 2-4 weeks.
Do you think CBB can get Clemson to the NCAA tourney next year? Even if Blossomgame leaves?
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CU Medallion [18261]
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why would we wait a month?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:38 PM
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110%er [7719]
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Re: why would we wait a month?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:40 PM
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Because you are probably going to want to talk to some of the coaches in the Tournament first to judge interest.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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so if we don't get a bite Brad stays?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:41 PM
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110%er [7719]
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Re: so if we don't get a bite Brad stays?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:44 PM
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Pretty much....
I think eh is here next year regardless.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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?????????????***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:46 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Perhaps to make sure there are other options in place
Mar 15, 2016, 3:44 PM
[ in reply to why would we wait a month?*** ] |
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I know it's hard to believe because we're not part of it, but some coaches are participating in post-season tournaments.
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110%er [7719]
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Re: Perhaps to make sure there are other options in place
Mar 15, 2016, 3:44 PM
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And one way to quickly burn a bridge with a coach would be to distract them before their tournament was over.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Why wouldn't we go ahead and fire Brad if that was the case?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:47 PM
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110%er [7719]
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Re: Why wouldn't we go ahead and fire Brad if that was the case?***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:49 PM
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$$$$$$ and if you dont think you can get a better coach than him then you wouldnt make the move.
You are delusional if you dont think ADs are putting out feelers if they see one of their coaches is not doing great.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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"if you dont think you can get a better coach than him then
Mar 15, 2016, 3:55 PM
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you wouldn't make the move" is exactly why I think he gets another year
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Yes, but it's my contention that he has done nothing
Mar 15, 2016, 3:53 PM
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to earn another year. Theoretically under my scenario an option is to keep him for the next 20 years, doesn't mean it's right or he earned that opportunity.
This is pure speculation, but I would bet our AD is using a 3rd party to contact agents now to see which coaches would leave their current schools to coach in the ACC.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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and when they say "thank you, but no thank you" we keep Brad
Mar 15, 2016, 3:57 PM
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for another year?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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Yes. But that doesn't mean our AD has faith that CBB
Mar 15, 2016, 4:02 PM
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will make the NCAAs next year.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101631]
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Wait, is that a fact?
Mar 15, 2016, 4:03 PM
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It sounds like a fact.
Signed,
CM Sack
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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opinion = facts
Mar 15, 2016, 4:07 PM
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keep up
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CU Medallion [18261]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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I think he's gone this year
Mar 15, 2016, 4:14 PM
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If he's not and we miss it next year, I think he's gone. If he isn't and we miss it the following year, I think he's gone. What part of this don't you understand?
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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the 3rd part....
Mar 15, 2016, 4:15 PM
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could you repeat the 3rd part?
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Top TigerNet [32900]
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why
Mar 15, 2016, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to So you actually have hope that after 2 years of not even ] |
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would shack revel in keeping bb? with dabo, you could see this thing building and building until we kick the ### door down. its almost as if shack is taking some glorious satisfaction that bb sticks around. and btw, even he does make ncaa's, why should he be allowed to stay? because we all know good and well it won't happen the yr after
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110%er [7719]
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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this is where you lose me...
Mar 15, 2016, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to It declined pretty rapidly when he quit ... ] |
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"it was clear his program had peaked"...
"his average finish was 7th"...
"he blew town before the decline became obvious"...
You lose me b/c he took over Larry Shyatt's program, and proceeded to make the posteason 6 of his 7 years, including the last 3 in the NCAAT.
Over the last 3 years, he won more ACC games than any school not named Duke or UNC.
He took us to an ACCT Championship game.
We can argue all day about his NCAAT losses, and I get how that really bothers some. But the fact remains that you could argue it was one of the best 3 year runs in Clemson basketball history.
I don't understand how you can say that we would have declined. Do you think he takes the team that BB got in as a "last four in" to the NCAAT? No reason to think he wouldn't. That's an extra 2 years to recruit more athletes.
Would we have missed the NCAAT again at some point? I'm sure.
But I don't get the "we were in decline" argument.
Brownell even said in his opening press conference that this WAS NOT a rebuilt job.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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why do you keep ducking my question? you mentioned me 8
Mar 15, 2016, 2:41 PM
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times in a span of 73 minutes and yet you can't seem to answer a simple question...would you say that's poooosified? careful how you answer...if you're brave enough to answer at all
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Varsity [104]
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you remind me of clemtiger117
Mar 15, 2016, 2:43 PM
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and that is not a compliment.
SCOK
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110%er [7719]
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Re: you remind me of clemtiger117
Mar 15, 2016, 2:44 PM
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That guy is not 117.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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no. no I am not***
Mar 15, 2016, 2:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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I'm not saying he wasn't good at Clemson, I'm just saying
Mar 15, 2016, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to this is where you lose me... ] |
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he had done all he was going to be able to do and he knew it.
I'm not saying Brad Brownell was a good hire. He just happens to be the guy we hired after Oliver Purnell quit on us.
I was fine with OP's program. I enjoyed watching his teams play, although their inability to hold a lead was a bit frustrating at times. I think he would have settled in at somewhere between 5th and 7th place in the ACC year in and year out. That's not bad, but it's certainly not great. In fact that's sort of what we have now.
Maybe Oliver Purnell would have made the NCAAs the next year relying mainly on Milton, Devin and Noel, but without shooters like KC Rivers and Terrence Oglesby. I don't know ... OP seemed to have his doubts.
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: I'm not saying he wasn't good at Clemson, I'm just saying
Mar 15, 2016, 3:09 PM
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I'm still trying to figure out this decline he saw coming...He signed a great class in 2009 by recruiting sites. None of them worked out quite like we'd hoped, but they all signed up to play a different style of ball than Brownell plays...Johnson and Hill transferred and didn't do great things at other schools, but we don't know how they would've developed under OP. He also had at least one big time recruit in Marcus Thornton committed for 2010.
So I'm not sure I understand this he saw the decline coming line you keep repeating based on current/expected talent at the time....
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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He saw what he actually had in Jennings, Booker and Johnson
Mar 15, 2016, 3:51 PM
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in action as freshmen and he knew they weren't all that.
They weren't blue chip difference makers and they weren't the great athletes like he'd had previously, and he was going to be without his "pure shooters" Rivers and Oglesby.
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CU Medallion [18261]
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but but but....Top 10 class***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:53 PM
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Ring of Honor [22922]
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Re: He saw what he actually had in Jennings, Booker and Johnson
Mar 15, 2016, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to He saw what he actually had in Jennings, Booker and Johnson ] |
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He was without his "pure shooters" during their freshman year where they made the NCAAT. Then in their Sophomore year Book and Milt played 20+MPG in a system they weren't a fit and guess what, they made the NCAAT.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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I stand by my opinion that OPs program had
Mar 15, 2016, 4:47 PM
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plateaued and was headed down hill.
It's nothing but an opinion.
His ACC finishes had been ... 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th, 3rd, 5th, and 5th ... his average ACC finish was 7th. That's a fact.
I'm not an OP hater. He got us into the NCAA three straight years. He was a good coach and he was a good fit at Clemson. I wish he'd have stayed at Clemson so we could have seen if some of your opinions about what he might have accomplished down the road could have become reality.
If OP had stayed, I don't know that we'd be better off today, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be any worse off.
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110%er [7719]
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Re: I stand by my opinion that OPs program had
Mar 15, 2016, 4:49 PM
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"plateaued" probably but there was nothing to suggest it was heading down hill.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: I stand by my opinion that OPs program had
Mar 15, 2016, 4:51 PM
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3rd ... 5th ... 5th ... ??
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110%er [7719]
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Re: I stand by my opinion that OPs program had
Mar 15, 2016, 4:56 PM
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5th 5th....
that seems to be the very definition of plateaued.
3rd in regular season was probably our peak.
We sure as hell had no indications of falling to where we are now!
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Okay ... we'll settle on "plateaued" ... like I said earlier
Mar 15, 2016, 5:14 PM
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I was fine with OP as our coach. I liked him and thought he was a good fit at Clemson. I wish he'd have stayed. I don't know that we'd have been any better off, but I doubt we'd be any worse off than we are today.
But ... he quit.
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Paw Warrior [4727]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Not me ... is that what was said? I haven't listened
Mar 15, 2016, 5:11 PM
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to WCCP in years and years. I honestly don't even know who "Qualk" is.
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110%er [7719]
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Re: this is where you lose me...
Mar 15, 2016, 2:44 PM
[ in reply to this is where you lose me... ] |
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Yea not seeing this decline...
In the ACC he finished
3rd
5th
5th
his final 3 years here.
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Gridiron Giant [15208]
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Re: My take on Facilities and Success
Mar 15, 2016, 2:56 PM
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if you think op left because he butted heads with athletic dept. then you are less informed than i even thought. op left for the same reasons rick barnes left. zipper problems. op had it made in the shade here. he and his secretary tailgated near us. the great and poerful p is and always be undefeated.
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Varsity [104]
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CU Medallion [18261]
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agreed...all it takes is a shred of proof***
Mar 15, 2016, 3:01 PM
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