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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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The way I understand trademark laws AU is doing nothing...
Aug 11, 2015, 10:24 AM
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but advertising for Clemson. The recruits who see that paw at Toomer's Corner know it belongs to Clemson. They are not making or producing a product in a commercial capacity or for profit.
I would hate if Clemson fans did this to another University, I'd be ashamed.
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Orange Blooded [3521]
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My understand of copyright law
Aug 11, 2015, 10:39 AM
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Have copyrighted a few songs I've written. To my knowledge, if you use it in any capacity without permission, you've in violation of copyright law. The question in my mind, did CU ever copyright the paw logo? As I recall some time back, they had not when it was revealed.
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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I thought our specific version was trademarked...but ours
Aug 11, 2015, 10:40 AM
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has the little notch at the bottom, which Auburn's does not have.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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The paw is trademarked by Clemson. The standard is
Aug 11, 2015, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to My understand of copyright law ] |
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"confusion". Logos do not have to be identical. If they are so similar as it would create confusion in the marketplace then there could be a violation.
Also, it does not matter whether or not the mark is used for profit - it is still a violation.
Lastly, first use is VERY important. Does anyone know when the paw was first painted on the road at Toomer's Corner and by whom?
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CU Guru [1806]
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Auburn's 3rd Grader Paw rendering is not a violation of our
Aug 11, 2015, 10:56 AM
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Copyright. We have copyrighted the cast of that Bengal Tiger from the Chicago museum that has the ridges all along the outside edge, the paw is tilted over to the right, and it has that signature "notch". Any other paw used, may be a symbol that represents our copyright, but it would not be a violation unless they ripped our exact paw logo with those specifications without express consent or after paying a licensing fee.
Auburn is not in any sort of violation, but they are "copycatting" a logo that, in its current form looks ridiculous, especially as a centerpiece of a major intersection in town. I have driven over that paw and it looks stupid... like a third grade kid drew a paw. I'll never understand why it was there or why they are trying to make it even more permanent.
Bottom line... Auburn can do what they are doing under the eyes of copyright law, but they look stupid for it
Message was edited by: djosey13®
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Orange Blooded [3521]
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You mean to tell me someone can change a few words to one
Aug 11, 2015, 2:23 PM
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of my songs, record it and call it their own? Don't think so. Same with the tiger paw logo.
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CU Guru [1806]
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Yes actually... in certain circumstances...
Aug 11, 2015, 2:44 PM
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Someone could change just a few words of one of your songs for "parody." see the Supreme Court case Campbell v. Acuff Rose Music, Inc. Where two live crew was ripping people's songs... Also, Weird Al makes a living out of doing just that.
Clemson does not have the use of any "paw" logo copyrighted... Rather, Clemson has the exact paw logo as we see it appear on Clemson merchandise copyrighted. This means that Clemson doesn't own outright the ability to use a paw to represent our athletics whereby no other school could use a paw without violating the copyright. Clemson aggressively protects the illegal use of its own paw with the exact specifications that the paw contains... or ones that are close. The Auburn Paw is not even a close representation of "our" paw... it doesn't have the notch, the tilt, or the rigid edging. It merely looks like a crude "parody" of the paw we use... It is not a copyright violation under the law. If it was, you best believe Clemson would be sending cease and desist letters to Auburn about it.
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Orange Blooded [4896]
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I don't think that's entirely accurate. "Confusion" is
Aug 11, 2015, 3:22 PM
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the standard. Another tiger paw does not have to be exactly like ours. Likelihood of Confusion is further defined by the Polaroid Factors:
The Polaroid Factors
When determining likelihood of confusion, courts use several factors derived from a 1961 case. (Polaroid Corp. v. Polarad Elecs. Corp., 287 F.2d 492 (2d Cir. 1961).) These factors, sometimes known as the “Polaroid factors,” may vary slightly as federal courts apply them throughout the country. The factors are intended as a guide, and not all factors may be particularly helpful in any given case.
Strength of the senior user’s mark. The stronger or more distinctive the senior user’s mark, the more likely the confusion. Similarity of the marks. The more similarity between the two marks, the more likely the confusion. Similarity of the products or services. The more that the senior and junior user’s goods or services are related, the more likely the confusion. Likelihood that the senior user will bridge the gap. If it is probable that the senior user will expand into the junior user’s product area, the more likely there will be confusion. The junior user’s intent in adopting the mark. If the junior user adopted the mark in bad faith, confusion is more likely. Evidence of actual confusion. Proof of consumer confusion is not required, but when the trademark owner can show that the average reasonably prudent consumer is confused, it is powerful evidence of infringement. Sophistication of the buyers. The less sophisticated the purchaser, the more likely the confusion. Quality of the junior user’s products or services. In some cases, the lesser the quality of the junior user’s goods, the more harm is likely from consumer confusion. related products and services.
At the very least I hope Clemson's lawyers are challenging the City of Auburn.
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CU Guru [1806]
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Even if this standard controls, the problem with the AU paw
Aug 11, 2015, 3:44 PM
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on Toomer's Corner is that it is not a "good." It would be one thing if Auburn was ripping the copyrighted paw and selling paw merchandise, which Clemson has aggressively protected in the past.The street paw logo is not a consumer good which is why I would think the "Polaroid Factors" would not control here. I don't know if Clemson lawyers would waste their time on a cease and desist letter for this...
Message was edited by: djosey13®
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110%er [6098]
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i would argue the "good" is the university of Auburn
Aug 11, 2015, 8:25 PM
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The are selling their university and sports teams using our logo
Plenty of high schools use the paw, but I did not think another college could.
What if the put a paw on their football helmets. Southern Cal sued the coots over that
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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CU Guru [1806]
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I'm 2/3 a lawyer minus the bar exam... haha
Aug 11, 2015, 3:49 PM
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I even read Polaroid on Westlaw just now. I'll admit I have a lot to learn in my last year of law school, but why not spout off like a lawyer in the meantime... I welcome the healthy debate though.
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Rock Defender [67]
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Rock Defender [67]
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110%er [6098]
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sue them anyway, even if we can't win. At least we will
Aug 11, 2015, 8:27 PM
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Embarrass them
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Replies: 14
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