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Topic: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out
Replies: 119   Last Post: Apr 19, 2014 1:09 PM by: silvavocati
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New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out

[8]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:18 PM
 

 
Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out

Clemson head coach Dabo Swinney and the Clemson program have come under fire for mixing religion with college football, two things people in this area are passionate about. What do former players say about this? Full Story »



David, for the record, did you interview any former athletes


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:31 PM
 

that had an issue with how Swinney handles his team and how he relates to his players in regard to his beliefs?


Re: David, for the record, did you interview any former athletes

[14]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:34 PM
 

No, and I am still looking. If there are any former players that want to speak out on this, we would love to listen. I tried to contact as many as I could, and tried to find someone with a different outlook, like Aaron Kelly.


Re: David, for the record, did you interview any former athletes

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:06 AM
 

because they aren't on the team or never were...
but they are welcome if they want, even if they don't want to join the club or be a part of the religious side...
it's freedom of religion & choice here folks!

if they hated that 1 part soooo bad, they would never be here at Clemson or in "the South" for that matter.
but if they insist...we can be as tolerant as the next!
also meaning: you cannot tell us what NOT to do, anymore than you can tell us exactly what we can do!!!

we are people, not politicians!
love it or LEAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go tigers!


Yusef Kelly might be a good start.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 7:26 AM
 




If FFRF had any former or current athletes on board

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:52 PM
 

That would be public. The fact that they can't produce even one person willing to say there was person harm or intimidation makes these pretty weak as a legal matter I think.

But FFRF seems to want to make this a public opinion fight anyway. At least as far as I can tell.


I think the public has spoken very loudly on this so far....


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:22 AM
 

time to move on.


I BELIEVE......they have taken on more than they realized


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:21 AM
 

this time.


So you're saying...


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 10:07 AM
 

they've scratched a Tiger's ### in a phonebooth? :)


Another great article davidhoodsteele!

[8]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:32 PM
 

 photo citizen_cane_zpsb9d704d3.gif

Dishonorably discharged from the Ring of Honor


Re: Another great article davidhoodsteele!

[7]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:36 PM
 

I would give you a thumbs up, but pulse is 100 percent? Seriously?


Shocking, isn't it?***

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:37 PM
 



Dishonorably discharged from the Ring of Honor


it's shocking we can't get to 110% around here.***

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:06 PM
 




So, he better leave his filthy hands off that rock!***

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:29 PM
 



"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


and another witty response***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:23 AM
 




good one!!! I can't believe I'm the first to TU you on that***

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:23 AM
 




Hey, you can't be in that club alone

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:38 PM
 

Plus that li'l symbol you got there gives you an unfair advantage.


Maybe you deserve more substitutions...


Cereally, davidhoodsteele, THAT is where you should be

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:08 PM
 

turning your amazing investigative powers and way with the pen . . .

HOW is bob at 100% ? ? ? HAS to be amazingly coerced & scandalous.

We will wait ANXIOUSLY by our 'puters.


tia ahead of time


Personally, I think this helps recruiting ... it simply

[13]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:41 PM
 

emphasizes what was already no secret at all.

It's common knowledge that the environment around the Clemson football program is steeped in the values espoused by Christianity.

While all those who claim to be Christian are not necessarily worthy of admiration, whether Christian or not ... whether religious or not, as human beings it's hard to argue that the basic core values of Christianity are not admirable.

It appears that a great many top recruits and parents of recruits feel that the environment of the football program at Clemson University is worthy of admiration.

Those who don't are certainly not compelled to commit to play for Clemson.


^^^^^This^^^^^

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 7:41 PM
 

You got it Apex. It's all about the values, and it's hard to argue with the parents and kids that are buying in to Dabo's program for that very reason.


Well that explains why Aaron Kelly kept knocking on my apt

[5]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:42 PM
 

door.


Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 4:50 PM
 

I hope that Clemson stands firm behind Coach Swinney on this issue. This is SC the last time i checked. The fallout of giving in to ffrf would be far worse than telling them to go to H///


Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:28 PM
 

telling them to got heaven...
that would be proselytizing, they would object to that..... :)


We don't have to tell them to go to He!!

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:31 PM
 

They have already made that choice to spend eternity there.

"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


There You Have It!!!....Nothing Forced ----

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:03 PM
 

As I posted earlier....When you are doing something
good and it shows....you will get attacked.

In this case its not just about religion either. There
is and always been something special in those hills.
And ofcourse instead of in the realm of friendly
competition, some want to go through DRASTIC measures to try to tear it apart.

How many times have that scenario played out in life?


Re: There You Have It!!!....Nothing Forced ----


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:15 AM
 

f**k yeah, on point Xander!!!

if they don't like the slightest thing about something,
then slander it all & tear it down completely, to be dragged under the bus!!!
all because you simply suck yourself, or are waaaay to jealous & embarrassed to stand up for yourself (& what you believe in) & truly be a part of something significant...


believe in NOTHING...& you WILL FALL for ANYTHING & EVERYTHING!!!


Hey, the way the world is going to H*LL in a handbasket imo

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:07 PM
 

as it is..I see no reason for a little saneness in the form of spiritual direction that DabO & some Staff members are offering to those on the Team who want to participate.

Maybe doing it on school property or as state employees might be a subject for debate.

GoTiGERS!

To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!


Stay the Course!

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:10 PM
 

Just another attack on the values and beliefs that created this nation. You can't just lead people and have NO values - or no basis for them. They have to make difficult decisions every day and I for one am glad to know Christian values are at the core of those decisions - just like they were in 1776! Chaos ensues and young people going through the transition from HS to a major college football program have a common foundation they are being led from - Fight back, don't give in to this craziness that wants everyone to define right and wrong for themselves.


#### those liberal ########. They obviously don't know what

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:13 PM
 

they're talking about.

IMO they're no different than Westboro "Baptist Church."

There's something in these hills.


I was hoping to hear some feedback from Clemson players.

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:15 PM
 

Thanks for writing this story and the many more great informative stories you write!


Everybody knows there is a constitutional "separation of


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:21 PM
 

religion and athletics".


there is no constitutional separation of anything***


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:27 PM
 



leslie


Except for the whole


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 7:24 PM
 

prohibition against government establishment of religion thing, of course.


Not exactly true***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:33 PM
 



I, Phillip, a small boy of twelve, lay exhausted, not knowing if I was sleeping or if I was daydreaming that I was sleeping. Gently I rocked back in forth in my hammock, a hammock woven out of the eyelashes of 1000 deer.


Re: Not exactly true***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:58 PM
 

The constitution guarentees Freedom OF religion not freedom from. This group distorts the constitution by it's own name. Also seperation of church and state is nowhere in the constitution. It says the government cannont form a national religion like the Church of England and require you to belong. Bet if Dabo was Muslim they wouldn't say a word.
Now we will see if our Athletic director and new president has a set....


I despise how a group like that believes it is their

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:25 PM
 

duty to interfere with the lives of others.

I wish they would try force their beliefs on Iran.


Yeah, I was wondering if they have gone out


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:45 PM
 

against Muslims, Buddhists, Taoist, Shintoist, Hindus, etc.

Probably not.

"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Obviously ran by Athiest

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:29 PM
 

Look where the company is from: Madison, Wisconsin. Enough said! Probably a small group of liberals like the gay rights movement going around creating problems just because they dont like something. Thats the problem in america, to many people complain about stupid stuff and we have to make another law taking liberties away bc of it.


Re: Obviously ran by Athiest

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:04 PM
 

Um, duh. It's called the Freedom From Religion Foundation. The founder openly admits to being an atheist. It's not some "small group of liberals," it's one of the largest secular organizations in the US.


19,000 strong. They'd fill up the West End Zone

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 7:00 PM
 

if they all came to a ballgame. Probably could squeeze them all into Lot 5.

Massive group, that is.


Re: Obviously ran by Athiest

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 7:26 PM
 

20,000 members nation wide and a grand total of 155 in SC....just a group trying to justify their existence by attacking a prominent college football program!


Re: Obviously ran by Athiest


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 8:07 PM
 

The atheist population is only around 8% of the total in the US...you really think there are going to be millions in one singular organization?

BTW they don't just go out and "attack" anyone. They file complaints based on complaints they receive from students or others who feel marginalized.


Really? They've targeted Dabo. Was there a complaint filed?

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 9:13 PM
 

I lump them in with other worthless organizations like the ACLU and NOW.

Dishonorably discharged from the Ring of Honor


Re: Really? They've targeted Dabo. Was there a complaint filed?

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:10 PM
 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/dabo-swinney--clemson-need-to-apply-common-sense-following-religion-related-complaint-205428317.html

"Responding to what it says was a complaint sent to it by a member of the public, the FFRF had one of its five staff attorneys investigate the program via open records requests over the constitutionally protected separation between church and state."


My favorite quote from the article...


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:39 PM
 

"He may be self-selecting a pious bunch in recruiting," she notes. "If so, that's an even worse violation. Public universities are paid by our tax dollars. They are not to be exclusionary Christian clubs."

Players do not get to just sign on at any school. Every college coach selects the players he wants based on something. Public universities select students. This is such a non-issue.


Re: Really? They've targeted Dabo. Was there a complaint filed?


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:01 PM
 

note it doesn't say a team member. Probably filed by one of their group


Gay marriage isn't a small little issue

[4]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:07 PM
 

It's supported by a majority at this point, with more turning every day.

The problem is a small vocal minority of old crusties refusing to understand that the religious side of it doesn't matter to everyone.

These guys accusing Dabo of all of this are silly, but so is your mention of the gay rights movement (which goes far beyond the liberal sphere).


Re: Gay marriage isn't a small little issue

[5]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:52 PM
 

No such thing as Gay marriage. And you're correct it's no small little issue to suggest there is. A few old crusties huh? I'm not that old, and your attitude towards anyone that disagrees with you seems to align you very much with those attacking Dabo and Clemson. Another fine example of those demanding tolerance and acceptance refuse to respect others' views.


Why is everyone so upset? I know it is a tired analogy but

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:36 PM
 

what if Dabo was a Muslim and these things were being practiced. That is the point these groups try to protect against-"unusual" religious influence.

I, Phillip, a small boy of twelve, lay exhausted, not knowing if I was sleeping or if I was daydreaming that I was sleeping. Gently I rocked back in forth in my hammock, a hammock woven out of the eyelashes of 1000 deer.


Tiger manlove doesn't like gays?

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:27 PM
 

That's odd.


The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a hate group.

[9]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:43 PM
 

They are to Christians as Nazis are to Jews and the Klan is to African Americans.


Re: The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a hate group.

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 5:58 PM
 

absolutely correct


Re: The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a hate group.

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:22 PM
 

they killed 6 million christians?? link please.

The facts that no players complain about it, and that no one is forced into the activities are legally irrelevant FYI


the fact no one if forced to into the activities is what the

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:29 PM
 

whole situation is about.


Re: the fact no one if forced to into the activities is what the


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:55 PM
 

you misunderstand the situation, and the law.


Re: the fact no one if forced to into the activities is what the


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:04 PM
 

It seems like he understands it well enough to know that a hate group is sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. They came uninvited and are hurting folks. Obviously trying to influence others to protest.

Student athletes have the right to worship what they want, when they want or not. The coaching staff is forcing no one to participate. Those participating are doing so willingly.


Re: The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a hate group.

[2]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:36 PM
 

The fact that no coaches nor players are coerced or have to participate is very relevant. Clemson University can not make it a policy for a coach or a professor to not pray with a student or an athlete. That would be infringing on the religious liberty of the coach, the professor, the student or the athlete.
No public institution can regulate religious speech that has been the core of the Supreme Court decisions.
Aarron Kelly had as much right to talk about his JW belief's as Dabo had to talk about his. A Mormon or a Moslem on the team would as well.


Re: The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a hate group.

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:39 PM
 

you're wrong, Aaron Kelly is not a public employee, Dabo is an agent of the state, he can not promote one religion over another


Do the cooties ave a chaplain?***

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:41 PM
 




Of course not ... they bow to Spurrier, their idol.***

[1]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:46 PM
 



"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: Do the cooties ave a chaplain?***


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:56 PM
 

probably, what's your point?


Maybe b/c having a chaplain is one of their complaints?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:05 PM
 

Wouldn't surprise me if they don't send a C&D to all public schools that have a chaplain...USCe could be next.


Yep. And he's a (gasp!) Christian.***


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 7:21 PM
 




Re: Do the cooties ave a chaplain?***

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 10:32 PM
 

no, but they have a team lawyer !


He absolutely CAN promote one religion over another,

[5]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 8:03 PM
 

moran. Just because he's a state employee doesn't mean he doesn't have rights himself.

He can't require that his players participate in religious activities, move someone down in the depth chart because they aren't Christian, etc.

Dishonorably discharged from the Ring of Honor


Re: He absolutely CAN promote one religion over another,


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:35 PM
 

If you are going to call someone a moron, at least spell it correctly, moron.
No, you can NOT promote one religion over another, while at work as a government employee. Having rights does not include the right to break the law. You have the right to free speech but you still can't scream FIRE in a crowded theater, unless there is actually a fire.


Re: The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a hate group.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 10:59 AM
 

I have read the Supreme Court decisions, some of them. Dabo may not direct the employees he supervises nor the students or athletes that are under his supervision on how to conduct their religious activities. Neither can the Supreme Court nor the State of South Carolina nor Clemson University direct him on his.
In other words Dabo can speak about and live his religious beliefs in the same way an atheist can talk about their lack of belief or Aaron Kelly could talk about his.


They lynch people with lawyers rather than lengths of rope.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 7:45 AM
 




Do not confuse lack of opportunity with lack of intent.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 8:23 AM
 

Regarding the fact that this group has not murdered anyone, do not mistake lack of opportunity for benevolent intent. The Nazis did not start killing Jews until they had consolidated control of the government, particularly the judiciary. I have no doubt that these hate mongers we are dealing with would not hesitate to march all Christians into cattle cars bound for extermination camps if it were within their power. Today, however, they simply do as much as they are able. The truth is, Atheism has always expressed itself in mass murder. It is the single most consistent characteristic of the belief system. Witness the 60 million killed under Stalin, the 100 million butchered under Mao, and the more than 1 million killed by the Khmer Rouge. Words fail me to discuss the atheistic bloodshed committed in Rowanda and the Congo and elsewhere in the 20th century. More people have died at the hands of Atheists in the 20th century than in all the religious wars in the preceding 19 centuries combined. So, no, these people have not killed anyone – yet. But as I said, do not confuse lack of opportunity with benevolent intent.


Re: Do not confuse lack of opportunity with lack of intent.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:41 PM
 

Talk about projection, you take the cake.
It is people of your ilk that this group is dedicated to fighting. They have never in any way advocated violence in anyway. It is the ultra right wing Christians who do things of that sort. Attempting to protect people from being forced to participate in religious activities is far removed from hate.
It is very evident from your post who is filled with hate.


Sir, I have never hated anyone.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:41 PM
 

But the venom flowing from your keyboard indicates that I may have struck a nerve. Apparently you harbor great animosity toward Christians. This probably results from being hurt by someone calling themselves a Christian in the past. I am sorry for that. But Christians do not use or endorse violence against anyone. Now, regarding this particular hate group, I speak from familiarity with their tactics. They have a track record of bullying people of faith, and no, I don't like that. If they were interested in defending someone, they would have stepped forward with the name of an individual. Their purpose is intimidation, period. I don't think hate groups should be lent the credibility that this group is receiving, and I stand by my statements.


Re: Do not confuse lack of opportunity with lack of intent.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:36 PM
 

^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^


It's scary that several people agree with this crazy talk.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 8:29 AM
 




Winner for the dumbest comment of the day!***

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:39 PM
 



I, Phillip, a small boy of twelve, lay exhausted, not knowing if I was sleeping or if I was daydreaming that I was sleeping. Gently I rocked back in forth in my hammock, a hammock woven out of the eyelashes of 1000 deer.


Oops, just got replaced by this one!***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:43 PM
 




You know... when you say "this one," it makes it look....

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:23 PM
 

like you are talking about your own post.

Just thought I'd share. :)


Spent a few minutes on FFRF's FB page

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:20 PM
 

It reminded me of FGF, with better spelling, and I assume, more teeth.


You know they did invent the toothbrush in Columbia

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 6:29 PM
 

anywhere else and it would have been named a teethbrush

leslie


Coersion from the evangelical atheists.***


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 7:28 PM
 




Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 9:13 PM
 

It's sad that the media gives liberal fringe groups like this who represent a few isolated nutcases a platform at all.
Actually, I think this is awesome publicity for Clemson University, I have never been so proud of a Clemson football coach and his entire program as I am of Dabo and his staff. Keep the faith and don't back down!


Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out

[3]
Posted: Apr 16, 2014 9:45 PM
 

I hate to be the one judged one day by fighting against God. Dabo gives these young men a chance to become men. He doesn't force them. They always say Dabo is a good recruiter. Well if you would check a lot of these recruits are part of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and come to Clemson because of this. Keep strong Clemson, you have a God looking over you. And for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes I know a lot of you. Keep up the good job. I have personally seen a lot of young men and women stay out of gang because of your work. God Bless America.


POTD!


Posted: Apr 16, 2014 10:48 PM
 

Next time, save these for Thursdays.

Seriously though, this was a great article with outstanding statements by our players. I would like to see this run in the AJC or some other SC publication!


And there in lies the problem with this country nowadays

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:20 AM
 

Freedom of speech and religion unless it's conservative and Christianity.


Re: And there in lies the problem..SPOT ON GunTotn!

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:21 AM
 

everything is very OK...as long as it doesn't have ANY morals or values involved!

makes me wanna kick some a$$ actually, but whose?
i have no access to the pres-all-mighty...his butt would be A-1, 1st in line.
keep working hard on destroying what has made our country great.
thanks dik!!! just like unions & ffrs or whatever they're called by acronym.


Message was edited by: jbthe1tiger99®



Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 2:50 AM
 

Sounds like the Tigers must be doing something right, cuz the haters be trollin'


Jimmy Swaggert for Offensive Coach!!! haha***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:01 AM
 




Re: Jimmy Swaggert for Offensive Coach!!! haha***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 11:14 AM
 

Jimmy Swaggert does not have enough integrity to work with this football team.


Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 7:41 AM
 

The Clemson family needs to respond to this organization!!! How ridiculous


As a non-Christian, Atheist groups are annoying to me.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 8:44 AM
 

This group is motivated by their desire to make Christians unhappy. They are not worried about protecting the rights of Atheists. That said, I think Dabo is running a program that indirectly pressures people to follow a certain brand of religion.

Coaches don't have to directly compel athletes in a certain religious direction in order for there to be a problem. If team functions involve Christianity at every turn, (and no other belief system) and team meetings are all full of Christian references, (but lacking any alternative) then that in itself seems inappropriate to me. Especially if we have a team chaplain and coach organized baptisms on the practice field.

Now, it's going to be impossible to convince most Christians that any argument involving less Christianity is right, but from a neutral perspective, I think a college athletic program should not create an environment that points everyone toward a certain religion or belief system. God knows plenty of organizations promote atheism, which is equally wrong. I think that does go against the spirit of the Constitution. Though I don't think any of the founding fathers would have a problem with Dabo's program, I think respect for diversity is a great cultural aspect of the U.S. and no state-affiliated organization should promote a certain type of religion. Indirect pressure is still very powerful social pressure.

I expect certain minor changes to be made, but nothing that eliminates Christian influence altogether. Only changes that make it less obvious.


Re: As a non-Christian, Atheist groups are annoying to me.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 11:17 AM
 

I expect no changes at all, unless an athlete or the family of an athlete or former athlete adds their names to the complaint. If any current or former athlete complains then I would expect changes.


Re: New Story: Faith and Football: Former Clemson players speak out


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 9:03 AM
 

As a parent, I think what Dabo and his coaching staff are doing is awesome. If religion did not exist, what would the world be like? It is obvious that he is not forcing his beliefs on his players. Great job DABO!!!


I'm not Christian


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 9:17 AM
 

but I do have have core values that inform my life. I do believe in the seperation of church and state, but this is headhunting. Pretty ridiculous.
Is the football team a state organization or is it considered a private organization? It's always been my understanding that a football program has the right to set forth rules of conduct for its members' behavior. Hence, SEC players could rob a bank and get suspended for the first quarter against SE Idaho State Tech where they would face immediate dismissal at Clemson. I don't see Dabo excluding anyone due to their religious beliefs. I feel like he's smart enough to know that could potentially alienate some big-time recruits, but it's been pretty obvious for some time that he actively recruits players with a Christian upbringing. My guess is that some recruit somewhere was passed over and is retaliating like a scorned lover. Oh well. Might be an important lesson for the coaches, but their #1 job is to win football games.


Interview some marginal players


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 10:09 AM
 

who were fighting for a spot and ask if they felt that playing time might be tied to church/chapel attendance. That is the pressure that folks could be talking about. All the players that have spoken out were clear cut starters and in some cases superstars. You wouldn't take playing time from Sammy Watkins no matter what God he subscribed to. But maybe Spencer Region isn't getting to play because he worships at the alter of the Golden Corral and not the First 2nd Baptist Church.

I highly doubt you would get a different answer from the 2nd team player but it would add credibility to the story.


Re: Interview some marginal players

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 11:22 AM
 

<< You wouldn't take playing time from Sammy Watkins no matter what God he subscribed to. >>
Dabo took 2 games away from Sammy! Nothing to do with religion but it has something to do with his actions.


Actually, I think just the opposite


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:58 AM
 

If a consistent starter can say that he didn't participate in religious activities all or any of the time then that lends credibility to the notion that participation was not tied to playing time.

In the same way, second and third stringers who participated frequently yet still didn't see the field would tell the same story.

A player who didn't participate in religious activities and didn't play much then complains about it only supports the notion that he's carrying a grudge.

Here's where statistics helps. If you plotted a chart of active participation in religious activities and playing time, without regard for the player's feelings about how he was treated, the visual trend might tell a story of whether a bias was in place.


Good point on the praying players that didn't play!


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:21 AM
 

try saying that 3 times fast.


Ask yourself this...

[2]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 11:33 AM
 

if the words "Christianity" and "Bible" were replaced with "Islam" and "Koran", would you have the same opinion of the story, of the players, and of Swinney??


Re: Ask yourself this...


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:13 PM
 

I'm sure by the time any recruit sets foot on campus they are aware that Dabo is a christian. If that is something that bothers them they may take that in consideration before they agree to go to Clemson. Already pointed out that religious services are not mandatory and no one is forced to participate.

It seems that they have some pretty upstanding student/athletes and in comparison to other programs they do pretty good on and off the field.


You miss the point.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 12:38 PM
 

A coach or faculty member at a public institution should not promote ANY religion. Hey Coach, you want to be active in your church or lead a bible study or watch a player get baptized?? Great - do it on your own time. Otherwise, shut up and coach football.


Re: You miss the point.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:14 PM
 

We all have our opinion on that. The fact is the kids come in knowing he is a christian....


Which may deter people of other beliefs/attitudes.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:11 PM
 




Re: Which may deter people of other beliefs/attitudes.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:10 PM
 

that's their choice pure and simple. If they don't want to play for Clemson because Dabo is a Christian, so be it. Bet its gotton us more players than we have lost


Re: Which may deter people of other beliefs/attitudes.***


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:59 PM
 

I agree with your last sentence. But as for the first part, I don't think the issue is Dabo being a proud Christian... it's so many team functions and team messages that are Christian.


Re: Ask yourself this...

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 1:44 PM
 

I expect a coach to be who he is with his players, to be real, I would not want a coach to hide who he is, whether that is Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, gay, straight, married, single, atheist.
I do not expect a drunk or someone using illegal drugs to be coaching our teams and that would be reason for getting fired.
Dabo disciplines players for their academic work ethic, not for grades. Dabo does not discipline players for their religious beliefs, his job is to put the best team on the field, and he has stated in the past, that the players faith or lack of faith is not part of that decision.
He cares about the players on his team, he cannot help but to share his faith, that is what a Christian is supposed to do. To deny a Christian the right to share his faith is to deny the rights guaranteed under the 1st amendment!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech " I would add that the courts cannot take away that right anymore that Congress can!


"Being who he is" is not what is at issue here.

[1]
Posted: Apr 17, 2014 3:06 PM
 

It's the issue of whether or not he is organizing a state-funded program in such a way that funnels people towards a certain religion.

It's not as if people are complaining that Dabo talks about his religion to his players.


Ahhh, the 1st Amendment.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 4:30 PM
 

Yes Dabo has the rights to free speech and the practice of his religion. But as an employee of a state-funded institution, Dabo cannot promote ANY religion - just like Congress cannot promote a religion. If you want to coach AND promote a religion, go coach at a private or church-funded school. Sorry, but thems the rules.


Re: Ahhh, the 1st Amendment.


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:08 PM
 

to promote it would mean he would require you to attend church of his choice to be on the team. To provide opportunity if one chooses is far different. The origional intent of the constitution has been changed by those who oppose religion in this country.


Wow. You were 0-3.


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:26 AM
 

1. Promoting a religion may include advocating church attendance, but there are plenty of other ways to promote religion.
2. If you "provide opportunity" to join a religion on the job at a state-funded institution, you have to "provide opportunity" to join ANY religion - including no religion. This way, no single religion is endorsed or emphasized.
3. The "original intent" of the Constitution? What is that? Is it something other than what was written? Are we supposed to use "original intent" instead of actual language? Does this apply to all Amendments?


Re: Wow. You were 0-3.


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 10:05 AM
 

Wow. I'm sorry but YOU are 0-3

1. Promoting a religion may include advocating church attendance, but there are plenty of other ways to promote religion.

The use of the word "may" is subjective and therefore not enforceable. Dabo does not promote any religion over another, he does not require any attendance or conformity. It is offensive to me that people are actually trying to deny the opportunity to be a part of these actions.

2. If you "provide opportunity" to join a religion on the job at a state-funded institution, you have to "provide opportunity" to join ANY religion - including no religion. This way, no single religion is endorsed or emphasized.

Really? This has been provided. The FFRF expressly stated that these opportunities are available, they just want it practiced behind closed doors.

3. The "original intent" of the Constitution? What is that? Is it something other than what was written? Are we supposed to use "original intent" instead of actual language? Does this apply to all Amendments?

Everyone wants to state that there is a "separation of church and state". THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT STATES THERE IS A SEPARATION. that was something that was said, by Thomas Jefferson, and that isn't even the quote.it is something that has been indoctrinated by the courts. The first amendment states that you and I are free from harassment to follow our religion as we choose. I AM OFFENDED THAT PEOPLE, GROUPS, WISH TO TAKE THIS AWAY.


Thats actually not the standard


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 9:54 PM
 

a state employee doesn't have to hide their religion. They can wear symbols of their religion and they can tell you to "have a blessed day." They just can't exert undue pressure to their employees to adopt their religion or penalize you for not doing so. A judge can quote scripture on the bench, it just can't be used in judgement. Congress says a prayer to open every legislative day.

As a supervisor, a coach has the ability to set certain standards which are crafted by his beliefs. Maybe because of his religion a coach doesn't allow the players to say GD. .


Really. Can Dabo wear a crucifix pin on his shirt?***


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:28 AM
 




Sure. Your employer can't take away YOUR 1st ammendment


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 8:49 AM
 

rights. Obviously there can be reasonable limitations.


Re: Ahhh, the 1st Amendment.


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 9:48 AM
 

Please provide proof that Coach Swinney is mandating Christianity on the football team. That would be unconstitutional. From everything that I've read, the Bible study groups are voluntary. No one is being forced to go. You get that, right?

You claiming that he needs to shut up and coach football is truly unconstitutional. He is free to express himself and yes openly talk about his faith, because he has a 1st amendment right to do so, just like you. Coaching at a State funded school does not forfeit ones first amendment rights.


Re: Ask yourself this...


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 5:05 PM
 

if that were so, this group would never been heard of. their goal is to wipe out Christanity


Giggle. And how would FFRF "Wipe out Christianity"??


Posted: Apr 17, 2014 6:13 PM
 

By getting people to think for themselves?? Hey, you may be onto something there...


Re: Giggle. And how would FFRF "Wipe out Christianity"??


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 8:14 AM
 

Kanye Twit,
Although your are completely entitled to your opinion, by a huge preponderance of responses to the contrary, yours is by far in the minority on this issue. As such, I respectfully ask that you GTF away.


I am in the minority so I should GTW away?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 9:49 AM
 

Nice debate tactic.


Re: Here is your answer


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 10:15 AM
 

As long as everything was voluntary as it is now, I would have zero problem with it.


Re: Hypocrisy at its finest


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 10:09 AM
 

Let me try to understand FFRF's position...

Having voluntary prayer, counseling, and Bible study is somehow forcing, encouraging, and/or promoting religion and should not exist in a publicly funded institution. So, their answer is to try to intimidate the coaches and administration and force their religion of atheism on the entire program.

Seems logical, right? If the coaches offer voluntary religious services, they are imposing religion. FFRF lodging a complaint designed to bring down "politically correct" pressure on the coaches/admin (yes these folks are people too with 1st amendment rights and all...) to coerce their silence and force the religion of atheism on the entire program, is constitutional.

Yeah, makes a bunch of sense if you are a bully hate group like FFRF.


Note to McDaniel


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 1:09 PM
 

This doesn't make Dabo look bad. You have it backwards. It puts the proper message at the forefront and requires of people to examine their faith.

"as long as Christ is preached"


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