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Front Page Story: Edwards: ACC needs more than FSU and Clemson for league to be relevant
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Editor [∞]
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Front Page Story: Edwards: ACC needs more than FSU and Clemson for league to be relevant
Dec 5, 2013, 9:21 AM
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Hall of Famer [24747]
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Legitimate.***
Dec 5, 2013, 9:27 AM
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CU Medallion [67807]
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Re: Uhhh but we have Duke now too
Dec 5, 2013, 9:30 AM
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Doesnt that do it? (sarcasm)
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Actually......
Dec 5, 2013, 10:35 AM
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You put G.Tech, V.Tech, or Miami next to Duke's resume and they would be about 10th in the country. NCAA football is way too much about name recognition.
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Associate AD [837]
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Re: Uhhh but we have Duke now too
Dec 5, 2013, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Uhhh but we have Duke now too ] |
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I would not dis Duke until we see how they fare against FSU? I did not think they would beat VaT or Miami.... but they did!
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CU Guru [1813]
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The ACC is trending up.
Dec 5, 2013, 9:32 AM
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FSU is the best team in the country. Clemson is hovering around the top 15 consistently. VT needs to fire their offensive coordinator(s) and recruit a QB and they'll be right back to the top. Miami has been trending upward since Golden got there and now they are done with the sanctions--they'll be "back" next. Louisville is one of the hottest teams in the country the last few years and has an elite coach.
We might not catch the SEC, but I think the ACC is well on it's way to getting back to where it was when the first expansion happened. With that status comes the national respect.
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Addict [441]
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Agree with all of this outside of Louisville.
Dec 5, 2013, 9:33 AM
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I think once Bridgewater is gone they will go back to a mediocre team.
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Amateur [43]
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Re: Agree with all of this outside of Louisville.
Dec 5, 2013, 7:37 PM
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FSU and CU carry the entire 14 team ACC on their backs. Miami and VT could do much to help, have no faith in GT with CPJ. Maybe UNC gets respectable again, maybe. L'ville is an unknown playing a full year in the ACC. ND will play 5 ACC games going fwd, how does that affect the league? The rest of the teams are recruiting poorly, have suspect coaching and are generally weak.
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CU Guru [1729]
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Per Sagarin SOS, ACC has been historically weak past 3 years
Dec 6, 2013, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to The ACC is trending up. ] |
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FSU looks legit, but for the last 3 years, Clemson and (this year, Duke) has clearly benefited from playing an historically weak schedule. The ACC (especially this season, the Atlantic) is a dumpster fire. Clemson only beat 3 ACC teams (BC, UMD, & GT) that even have winning records and those "winning" records are 7-5 thanks to 2 cupcake-wins each. Last year Clemson only beat one ACC team that had a winning record (Gone are the days of multiple 8, 9, 10-win ACC teams like the Matt Ryan led BC squads, etc.) I think Edwards is rightfully saying that you need several good teams and a few elite teams, and then it's OK to have the rest be mediocre or worse.
As of 2013 Sagarin started breaking out conferences by division so it's hard to compare to previous years when divisions were lumped together into one conference ranking but it looks like the ACC overall would have been ranked 5th or 6th this season.
ACC’s conference SOS Sagarin rankings: 2013: Atlantic #9 (ahead of only the AAC among major conferences) Coastal #7 as of 12/1/13.
2012: 7
2011: 7
2010: 4
2009: 4
2008: 3
2007: 5
2006: 5
2005: 4
2004: 2
2003: 1
2002: 1
2001: 4
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Expert [1376]
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Per Razz, wins and losses should be wholly based on
Dec 7, 2013, 2:41 PM
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star rankings, out to the second decimal. That is, a team with an average star rating of 3.23 should beat a team with an average of 3.22 stars, every time. I mean, obviously.
Nuff said.
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All-In [30788]
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lol...fsu is a game away from
Dec 5, 2013, 9:33 AM
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Playing for a NC.
Winning is all the relevancy you need.
Remember when an undefeated auburn team was left out? How did the mighty sec help them?
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All-Conference [427]
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Replace Big10 for everyone of those arguments, then ####***
Dec 5, 2013, 9:37 AM
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Replace Big10 for everyone of those arguments, then ####***
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110%er [7913]
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would agree with this...it's fair
Dec 5, 2013, 9:40 AM
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there are two good teams in the ACC and the rest are average.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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True - but not that much more. That is what is so very,
Dec 5, 2013, 9:43 AM
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very misleading about this headline. The ACC is only a team or two from being almost dead even with the SEC, in spite of what poll voters and brainwashed media types would have us believe. The SEC is very top heavy, much like the ACC, but the lower half of the upper tier (mid-pack) in the SEC is definitely better. Once you get into the lower half, both conferences are about even (see Vandy- Wake) in my opinion. If VT and Miami ever get back on track, the ACC is right there with the SEC.
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110%er [7913]
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Vandy and Wake are even????
Dec 5, 2013, 9:45 AM
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Vandy has won 17 games over the past two years....Wake has won 9 games and the coach just quit.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Head-to-head, Absolutely. Vandy won this year with a
Dec 5, 2013, 10:03 AM
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last second FG. They are 3-3 over the last 7 years in head-to-head. It doesn't get any more even than that.
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110%er [7913]
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obviously that means we aren't even with SC then.....***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:10 AM
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Of course - I don't see how anybody can claim that we are.
Dec 5, 2013, 10:55 AM
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I think we have closed the gap, or maybe even passed them talent wise, but that is irrelevant when talking about who is "best"; you gotta prove it on the field.
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Starter [360]
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CU Medallion [58411]
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exactly - THAT is my point. If I understand corectly,
Dec 5, 2013, 10:51 AM
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you are using Vandy's SEC record and beating Tenn as evidence that they are better than Wake; I am pointing out that head-to-head competition says otherwise, year-in, year-out, and again this year. It's a misconception, fueled by an endless stream of propaganda from the media.
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Legend [15525]
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Re: True - but not that much more. That is what is so very,
Dec 5, 2013, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to True - but not that much more. That is what is so very, ] |
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You are so right! There is one thing we have going against us for the most part that the sec doesn't have is the academic expectations for our players. Notice the drop off in performance after Miami joined, and when conference expectations caught up with FSU after a while. They just now are regaining that elite status they enjoyed before joining the conference. The best academic teams have the least success in football. There are a few teams in the sec that are the best in the country, but they are very top heavy. Those top teams, though, are very good and get the notoriety, but the rest benefit because of it.
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Associate AD [837]
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Re: True - but not that much more. That is what is so very,
Dec 5, 2013, 12:52 PM
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The best academic teams have the least success in football.
Duke and Clemson are the top 2 in the ACC in athletic academics and I think we are in the top 3 in the conference in football this year.
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Legend [15525]
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Re: True - but not that much more. That is what is so very,
Dec 5, 2013, 3:14 PM
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Yes, but that is top 3 in a conference that holds academics for their athletes in a more prominent regard than the secheat.
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Fan [70]
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Re: True - but not that much more. That is what is so very,
Dec 5, 2013, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to True - but not that much more. That is what is so very, ] |
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The ACC would essentially need all of there football schools to be good at once to catch up with where the SEC is now. Don't forget, Tenn, FL, and Arky are all down right now and at some point will likely cycle up.
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CU Medallion [55386]
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Re: Front Page Story: Edwards: ACC needs more than FSU and Clemson for league to be relevant
Dec 5, 2013, 10:05 AM
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So in other words, what he is saying, is that even though we have been toe to toe with FSU for the past ten years with this being the first year that FSU has beat Clemson at home in the past ten years. His opinion is that FSU is in a league by their self in the acc. For the sake of argument, lets say that Edwards has no biases toward Clemson. With Jameis being the biggest up grade at FSU. I'm saying Bull Chit. The last 10 years of Clemson/FSU is a whopping 5/5 record with FSU having to win the last two to even it up at 5/5. I agree that FSU is better than us right now, but not enough to cause someone to say they are in a league by them selves. They are a player or two better, but not a whole team.
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Hall of Famer [24747]
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Good argument. It's reflective of the 'Here and Now' society
Dec 5, 2013, 10:20 AM
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everybody has to deal with. I suppose losing every conference game last year doesn't have any impact on AU-burn's "elite" status. I need to reconsider my "Legitimate" comment above.
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Legend [15525]
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Re: Good argument. It's reflective of the 'Here and Now' society
Dec 5, 2013, 10:47 AM
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AU gets the benefit of the sec media bias. They are in that conference, therefore they must be better than everybody else in their eyes.
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Hall of Famer [24747]
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108 yards from irrelevancy just last week. Now... Mizz?***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:51 AM
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Fan [70]
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Re: 108 yards from irrelevancy just last week. Now... Mizz?***
Dec 5, 2013, 4:12 PM
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more like 108 yards from OT with the #1 team in the country and winner of 3/4 last national championships.
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Starter [379]
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Re: 108 yards from irrelevancy just last week. Now... Mizz?***
Dec 5, 2013, 4:18 PM
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Well, couple that with 4th and 80 yards with seconds left against a Georgia team...and two backs in position to bat the ball down...and you have the luckiest Top 20 team in America
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CU Medallion [55386]
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Legend [15525]
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Starter [399]
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All-TigerNet [11161]
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Two teams are enough to propel one into the National Title.
Dec 5, 2013, 10:09 AM
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I'd say that's enough.
Message was edited by: cutigersJD®
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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We should have beat SCAR then.***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:15 AM
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Legend [15525]
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Re: We should have beat SCAR then.***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Yes, we should have. We didn't though, and we just have to live with it for a while.
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CU Medallion [55386]
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Re: We should have beat SCAR then.***
Dec 5, 2013, 8:27 PM
[ in reply to We should have beat SCAR then.*** ] |
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I'm convinced if not for the first four turn overs, we would have won that game. It may have been a close one, but I'm going with a close one we win. I think we win with just the first muffled ball on ground by Bryant being shoved almost into Humphries.
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Scout Team [166]
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Fsu
Dec 5, 2013, 10:19 AM
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Are they not in a league of their own so to speak? Not just in the acc, but I'd say compared to anyone in the country when you consider what we've seen week to week on the field.
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Hall of Famer [24747]
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This year... YES.***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:21 AM
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Standout [309]
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Re: Front Page Story: Edwards: ACC needs more than FSU and Clemson for league to be relevant
Dec 5, 2013, 10:22 AM
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We are an average team at best, in a joke conference.
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Standout [337]
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I am not a fan of the ACC or conferences in general, but...
Dec 5, 2013, 10:26 AM
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I'm tired of the bias against our conference. They said the last few years that the ACC needed FSU to be back. The last I checked, they are #1. Now, these media pundits claim that we need FSU, Clemson and two or three additional teams to step it up to be relevant. The SEC for the last three years has been made up of Bama, LSU and the new member A&M. They have had some good teams like SC & UGA, but everyone else has been horrible except for Mizzou & Auburn this last year. The Big 10 is Ohio State and Michigan, period. The Big 12 has been Baylor, Oklahoma, OK State and no one else. The Pac-12 is Oregon and Stanford and the rest of the pack.
The point I'm making is that yes, it would be great if the other teams that we are contracted to play would step it up and not have a nearly four-way tie for 1st place in the Coastal with a 5-3 conference record. And, it would be good to have consistent wins against out of conference foes. But to say that conference relevancy is based on three or more teams to be premier throws out the Big 10, the Pac-12 and to some extent the Big 12 in this discussion too.
This all boils down to the SEC. Lets look at the mighty SEC over the last two years. Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Mississippi St have been HORRIBLE. Auburn and Mizzou were not good last year but turned things around this year. Florida was 7-1 in the conference last year and are now 3-5 this year. SC, UGA, Vandy, Mississippi are good teams but not elite. The last three years, we were told that the SEC was elite because Alabama was the dominant team. This year, we're being told the SEC is elite because there are multiple teams that can compete for a conference championship. Which is it? Is it both? If so, there are other conferences that have had one team dominate and other conferences that have had multiple champions represented from its members.
This is what is referred to as public perception through media bias. The SEC spin masters are excellent at what they do, but they obviously don't think that the average person has a memory beyond 9 months. Just wait until the BCS Committee begins next year. We haven't seen SEC spin like what is about to occur from their conference office and media relations. The other conference offices need to step it up if they want to compete in this media war.
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Hall of Famer [24747]
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Very well stated.+1.***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:29 AM
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Legend [15525]
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Orange Blooded [3233]
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Yeah, but winning the title the last few years has helped
Dec 5, 2013, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to I am not a fan of the ACC or conferences in general, but... ] |
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their image. Now it appears as if all you have to do is make it through "the gauntlet" of the SEC you're going to be handed the title. It doesn't matter if 80% of the conference is mediocre. Everybody knows that 80% of all conferences are mediocre. So the SEC spins it as "we're all bullies that beat up on each other and the biggest bully is coming to take your candy".
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110%er [6101]
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CU Medallion [55386]
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Re: I am not a fan of the ACC or conferences in general, but...
Dec 5, 2013, 8:45 PM
[ in reply to I am not a fan of the ACC or conferences in general, but... ] |
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You are absolutely correct. The biases begin with selective memory from one season to another. The mighty sec doesn't have a single undefeated team. Media spin is that they knock each other out with such a difficult schedule. But ain't that what happens to every conference in collegiate sports. They mainly play each other except for a couple of CUP CAKES. Media spin on that since the sec has the softest cup cakes they can get on their schedules. The sec has to schedule Out Of Conference cup cake b/c they beat each other up so badly. But only the sec beats up on each other. Really!!! With the acc and all other conference play each other, but they are all cup cakes.
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CU Guru [1729]
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Expert [1376]
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Big East has a better bowl record and MWC nipping on their
Dec 7, 2013, 2:17 PM
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heels for the last 15 years.
Big East obviously rules the college football world!
This thread not even being counted, you say a lot of really silly stuff.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Big East has a better bowl record and MWC nipping on their
Dec 7, 2013, 2:25 PM
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IDK. Saying that the ACC isn't good isn't really a far-fetched idea.
That may just be my general knowledge of the college football landscape talking.
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Expert [1376]
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I certainly wouldn't say top to bottom they're one of the
Dec 7, 2013, 2:36 PM
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best, but the exaggerations are silly. Lining up top teams is one thing, but trying to say sucky team x from A conference is automatically better than sucky team y from conference B, that's just speculation that can be twisted any number of ways. When folks try to make definitive statements about strength of schedules and whatnot, that stuff is just silly.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I certainly wouldn't say top to bottom they're one of the
Dec 7, 2013, 2:41 PM
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Agree with that
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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And SEC needs more than Bama and Auburn to be relevant***
Dec 5, 2013, 10:49 AM
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Legend [15525]
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Re: And SEC needs more than Bama and Auburn to be relevant***
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50
