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All-In [27363]
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The genius is being revealed
Sep 8, 2013, 11:09 AM
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in Chapel Hill. Not to my surprise but the tarheels lost the coin toss yesterday and the unc captain chose to kickoff. Mr. Cherry, our favorite official, looks to the sideline at coach Fedora as if to say ... is this really the captain of your team making a decision like this???? One of the other captains asked to do the talking for the rest of the season. Only in academia. Had to be one of those players who couldn't get into any other school.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Dude, hate to break the bad news to you, but sometimes
Sep 8, 2013, 11:42 AM
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teams choose to play defense first.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: Dude, hate to break the bad news to you, but sometimes
Sep 8, 2013, 11:45 AM
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As a rule, when the other team wins the toss and defers the losing team will chose not to allow the other team an extra possession..............dude! Even the coach said this was 'not the plan'...............dude
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Rock Defender [53]
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Um, dude, whether or not the coach agreed it was the plan
Sep 8, 2013, 11:55 AM
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nonetheless, sometimes teams CHOOSE to play defense first. Do you disagree, dude?
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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Teams do NOT choose to play defense first. If you win
Sep 8, 2013, 11:58 AM
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the toss, you DEFER the choice to the second half. That, in essence, is choosing to play defense first. You do NOT choose to play defense if you win the kick off. Doing that, means the opposing team receives the opening kick off, and then has the choice in the second half...thus choosing to receive the kick again.
You're being this dense intentionally?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Been watching football your whole life?
Sep 8, 2013, 12:02 PM
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When you win the toss, you can either receive the kickoff to start the game or kick off to start the game (i.e. play defense first). Sometimes teams choose to play defense first.
No need to be a d!ck about it.
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Walk-On [148]
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Re: Been watching football your whole life?
Sep 8, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Sorry but this is just incorrect. Look it up if you have to but you're plain wrong.
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Rock Defender [53]
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CU Medallion [56685]
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UNC lost the toss, not won and deferred.***
Sep 8, 2013, 12:35 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Well that certainly changes things doesn't it?***
Sep 8, 2013, 12:38 PM
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All-In [32580]
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This is not true - UNC lost the toss and the other team
Sep 9, 2013, 5:03 PM
[ in reply to UNC lost the toss, not won and deferred.*** ] |
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deferred - so now it is on the tarholes to pick.
1. They pick to receive and both teams get the ball to start a half.
2. they pick to kick off - that means they will have to kick off to start each half.
They picked 2.
Stoooooopid . . . and a mistake.
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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I just explained to you how the rules are and you're still
Sep 8, 2013, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Been watching football your whole life? ] |
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ignoring me, so yes, you're being dense. If that makes me being a d!ck about it, I guess I am.
When you win the toss, you're given the option to:
a. Kick
b. Receive
c. Defer
You never choose choose option 'a', unless if you're stupid like UNC, which is the whole point of the original post Forrest made.
If you want to kick off to start the game to play defense first, you defer your choice to the second half, where the opposing team will then have the options to kick or receive, and they will choose to receive.
If you choose option 'a' first, then the opposing team will have the option to kick or receive at the start of the second half, and will choose to receive, thus, getting the ball to start both halves...
Can I make it any clearer?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Well at least you can admit you're being a d!ck...
Sep 8, 2013, 12:09 PM
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But what I citing ARE the rules.
Whether or not teams often choose A means nothing, because sometimes teams absolutely CHOOSE to play defense first. Not sure what you're not getting.
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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Seriously? IF YOU CHOOSE TO KICK YOU NEVER GET THE BALL TO
Sep 8, 2013, 12:12 PM
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START A HALF. That's what I'm getting [sic].
UNC chose to kick off when they won the toss, so UNC did not start a half with the ball...thus making them stupid...thus FORESTTIGER making his post mocking Tarholes and their "genius"...
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Rock Defender [53]
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Wow caps and all?
Sep 8, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Still doesn't change the rules nor does it change the fact that sometimes teams choose to play defense first.
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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I think you're completely missing the point.
Sep 9, 2013, 10:04 PM
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"Choosing" to play defense first is not the same thing as choosing to kick off. When a team wins the toss and wants to play defense first, they simply defer their choice to the second half. This allows them to play defense first and still start the 2nd half with the ball.
If they did indeed choose the option to kickoff, their opponent would be able to make their own choice to receive in the second half, meaning they get the ball to start both halves.
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Walk-On [148]
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Re: Well at least you can admit you're being a d!ck...
Sep 8, 2013, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Well at least you can admit you're being a d!ck... ] |
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Noone refutes that teams will choose to play defense first...but when they do that they do so by DEFERRING not by choosing to kickoff. UNC chose to kick, which is stupid for reasons we've already shown you. Your non sequitur about teams playing defense first makes no sense given the topic of this thread.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Sigh.....
Sep 8, 2013, 12:19 PM
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Please go back and read my original post or any other post in this thread. I'm fully cognizant of the way teams usually do it, and frankly I don't care anything about what did or didn't happen in the tarhole game, but regardless the rules are clear and my statements are correct.
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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First, we have this same conversation every year.
Sep 9, 2013, 2:02 PM
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Second, you may only be right in some bizarre semantic way. They are choosing to let the other team choose what happens.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Nope. No semantics at all.
Sep 9, 2013, 2:17 PM
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I was initially incorrectly under the assumption UNC won the toss in which case many teams defer. UNC actually lost the toss and still wanted to play defense first. That too is within the rules and absolutely has and does happen. Rare? Yes. Never? No. Not semantics at all.
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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You really think that UNC is so fond of their D that they
Sep 9, 2013, 2:50 PM
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wanted to send them out first for both halves?
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Orange Blooded [2340]
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Even in a "bizarre semantic way," he's still not correct
Sep 9, 2013, 10:10 PM
[ in reply to First, we have this same conversation every year. ] |
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While most of his statements aren't technically incorrect, the one about where he stated "When you win the toss, you can either receive the kickoff to start the game or kick off to start the game," he failed to include the third option of deferring to the second half.
It seems quite obvious that he didn't know the difference between kicking off to start a game by deferring and by choosing the option to kick, which isn't a big deal. Numerous people are confused about this. In fact, I'd say over half of all casual football fans don't know how this works.
Now he's simply backtracking in an effort to make it appear he did know the rule. If that's the case then arguing about the choice to kick first simply because it's technically an option is just a douchey thing to do.
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CU Guru [1038]
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Rock Defender [53]
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The rule is the rule. And btw,
Sep 8, 2013, 12:41 PM
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I was a walk-on running back from 87-91, and I never played playstation.
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Walk-On [148]
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Re: Been watching football your whole life?
Sep 8, 2013, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to Been watching football your whole life? ] |
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When a team wins the toss they have 3 choices:
1. Kickoff
2. Receive
3. Defer their choice to the second half
The only 2 options the winner of the toss should EVER pick are options 2 and 3. If they pick option 1 then the other team gets the ball first to start the game and to start the second half. Hope that helps.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Thanks for your opinion, however, your opinion doesn't
Sep 8, 2013, 12:10 PM
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change the rules nor does it change the fact that sometimes teams choose to play defense first.
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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No, it just makes your first response to this thread stupid
Sep 8, 2013, 12:22 PM
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and makes you look stupid for backtracking your posts like you knew the rule all along.
The first post of FORESTTIGER was mocking UNC for their "genius gameplan" for being stupid enough to choose to play defense first instead of deferring. Your first post should've mentioned something on the stupidity of it, not saying "well teams can choose to play defense".
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Rock Defender [53]
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And too...you're TDing me because I'm stating the rules?
Sep 8, 2013, 12:30 PM
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Sorry for saying you're acting like a d!ck... Child may be more like it.
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MVP [518]
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That is most incorrect sir.
Sep 9, 2013, 3:47 PM
[ in reply to Been watching football your whole life? ] |
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I have seen teams have to kiosk to start both halves because they answered the question wrongly.
If you win the toss, the question is: do you want to kick or receive?
If you answer kick, you have made your choice and then the opposing team gets to choose for the next half.
If you say "we defer our decision to the second half", the other team gets to decide and will choose to receive lest THEY then have to kick it twice.
So the proper answers are: 1- we will receive, or 2- we defer., never 3- we will kick.
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All-In [32580]
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THIS is not true . . . if you win the toss you have THREE
Sep 9, 2013, 5:05 PM
[ in reply to Been watching football your whole life? ] |
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choices.
1. Kickoff - no - means you kick off to start each half because the other team would most surely pick to receive to start the 2nd half.
2. Receive - and now the other team gets to receive to start the 2nd half.
3. Defer - the other team gets to pick what they want to do to start the game and the team that won the toss decides what they want to do to start the 2nd half.
So, good Dr. - what you say above is NOT correct.
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All-In [39020]
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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Legend [19590]
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Rock Defender [53]
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I'm not looking foolish for stating the rules or the fact
Sep 8, 2013, 12:22 PM
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that sometimes teams choose to play defense first. I think you may be confusing these irrefutable facts with thinking I'm defending the subject tarhole. In any case, the rules are the rules, and as rare as it may be sometimes teams do choose to play defense first.
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Legend [19590]
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Find for me where a coach has ever instructed his captains
Sep 8, 2013, 12:30 PM
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to choose to kick so they can play defense at the start of both halves.
You won't be able to.
I believe you are being stubborn.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Not the point at all...
Sep 8, 2013, 12:38 PM
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Point is you can decide to play defense first, and it has been done.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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You mean, you can let the opposing team choose for
Sep 8, 2013, 12:49 PM
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you whether you'll play defense first, by deferring, which naturally they will or else they don't get the ball at the start of either half.
OR
you kick so you don't actually play defense "first" for the first half and offense for the second half, you play defense first both halves.
^^^
NOBODY chooses kick and play defense first BOTH halves. That'd be just stupid and no, no team would ever do that unless they didn't know the rules and made the mistake of saying kick. That'd be just dumb...as clearly that UNC kid is.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You mean, you can let the opposing team choose for
Sep 8, 2013, 12:52 PM
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I admit I made a mistake about who actually won the toss in the original post.
However, I do not retract the fact that teams can choose to play defense first and have. While rare and perhaps "stupid', saying "NOBODY" is incorrect. I never once argued whether or not I agree with playing defense first. I only stated you can choose to do so. And it has happened.
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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This is where you argument changed. Your response is
Sep 8, 2013, 12:54 PM
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pointless. We all know the rules, we're pointing out why UNC was stupid, and the captain made the incorrect choice.
The fact you didn't get why it was a funny joke on UNC's stupidity is when you changed your whole argument.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Wrong again.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:55 PM
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I stated very clearly that teams can choose to play defense first. I never defended the 'holes or changed my stance. Not at all.
You're kind of pathetic, really. How old are you?
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CU Guru [1555]
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exactly. It is obvious to everyone who read the original
Sep 9, 2013, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to This is where you argument changed. Your response is ] |
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post that it is within the rules to choose to kick since UNC did that very thing. Why Doc seems to be arguing against imaginary people in this thread who are arguing otherwise is beyond me.
Carry on y'all's bicker.
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Rock Defender [53]
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No. Contrarily it's obvious that many of these clowns had
Sep 9, 2013, 2:00 PM
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no idea you could choose to kick. Several of the replies refer to rules and whatnot, when the rules are very clear - You CAN choose to play defense first if you choose to do so.
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110%er [6692]
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You choose to play defense first by deferring. If you lose
Sep 10, 2013, 12:53 AM
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the toss you don't get the choice to play defense first unless you are incredibly stupid, which was the point of the OP.
Nobody is denying you can choose to play defense first if you win/lose the toss, but everybody is in unanimous agreement (except you for some reason) that if you lose the toss you receive the ball unless the team that won receives.
D!ck.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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You are essentially choosing to play defense first when you
Sep 8, 2013, 1:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: You mean, you can let the opposing team choose for ] |
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defer. Unless the other team is stupid enough to give you the ball BOTH halves.
But the original poster clearly said, and I quote, "kickoff." Your immediate replay was, "Dude, hate to break the bad new to you, but sometimes teams choose to play defense first." Either you didn't read his post and the fact that he said "kickoff," or you didn't know the rules clearly.
It's ok to be wrong sometimes. I often am.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Ok, so can you please clarify what was
Sep 8, 2013, 1:08 PM
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incorrect about my statement? It was and still is 100% correct.
I already admitted I missed the part about UNC actually losing the toss. My bad, but in any case a team CAN choose to play defense first, and they have done exactly that in some cases. That is 100% correct, so you'll need to explain how I didn't clearly know the rule or how I'm wrong?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I think it is just a matter of you missing him saying the
Sep 8, 2013, 1:13 PM
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word "kickoff." If he said, UNC elected to >defer< then everything you said would be legitimate and would make this event of no surprise to any of us. It'd warrant your original reply.
However, you made it sound like electing to kickoff was not unusual and no big deal and teams choose to play defense first. I've never seen any team do this until now. It would be a terrible strategy to give the opponent the ball at the start of both halves. Surely you don't think this is the norm or a smart idea? That's what makes your remark so puzzling...
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Rock Defender [53]
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Tiger_Two, please become a little more informed on my
Sep 9, 2013, 2:14 PM
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replies in this thread. It was cleared up well before your post above that I missed the OP stating UNC lost the toss.
The rules are the rules, and sometimes it happens where teams choose to play defense first whether it be through deferring or after losing a toss.
Yet, some still continued on and on about me not knowing the rules or how choosing to play defense is stupid etc. That's why I defended myself. Not because I was uninformed about the rules or because I was fighting for the tarhole player's decision.
Noting I said made it seem like a usual strategy and certainly not the norm to play defense first. It does happen though. You say you never seen it - but viztiz was nice enough below to link the evidence.
Nothing I said made it seem like it was a good strategy. But that still doesn't change the fact some teams choose to do so.
My statement is correct and stands. Sometimes teams choose to play defense first.
You'd think folks who jumped on me for not knowing the rules, or those who ridiculed me for agreeing with a decision I never agreed with, would offer apologies, but unfortunately there are those here who are incapable of acting like respectable, grown men.
I hope you're not like that. It's clear the comments you were making were not with all information in hand. I'll leave it up to you how you handle it from here.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I'm not insisting you don't know the rules and my reply had
Sep 9, 2013, 2:25 PM
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nothing to do with whether they won the toss. I was commenting on how your original reply may have been perceived and why this may be causing confusion for some.
I personally have never seen it, but apparently it does happen, albeit, rarely.
I'm just curious what these few teams were thinking and what their strategy is when they elect to do so.
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Walk-On [148]
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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It is RARE a team would choose to kick off.......
Sep 9, 2013, 3:39 PM
[ in reply to Tiger_Two, please become a little more informed on my ] |
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instead of deferring and hence receive the kick off. The only time I could ever see a team CHOOSING to kick off would be in a blizzard.
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MVP [518]
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Nope
Sep 9, 2013, 3:52 PM
[ in reply to Not the point at all... ] |
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You never decide to play defense, but the way it happens is that you DEFER YOUR CHOICE to the second half, and then the othe team will always choose to take the ball first which puts you on defense.
But if you say: we will play defense, then you have made your choice and the second half you'll find yourself playing it again.
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MVP [545]
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Re: Not the point at all...
Sep 11, 2013, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to Not the point at all... ] |
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> Point is you can decide to play defense first, and it
> has been done.
Yes, but not at the expense of playing defense at the start of the second half also.....
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CU Guru [1363]
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I can't stop starring at those eyes in your sig...***
Sep 9, 2013, 2:33 PM
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CU Guru [1363]
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You think those are awesome?
Sep 9, 2013, 2:47 PM
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Try looking a little farther south.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Have mercy...***
Sep 9, 2013, 2:51 PM
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Legend [15730]
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Legend [15730]
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Anyone? Anyone? ******
Sep 9, 2013, 4:59 PM
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Walk-On [148]
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Re: The genius is being revealed
Sep 8, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Choosing to kickoff means the other team gets to choose to start the second half. Meaning they get to start with the ball for BOTH halves. The correct choice if you want your team to defend to start the game is to defer your choice to the second half.
The more you know.
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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...that's the point...of the post......***
Sep 8, 2013, 11:53 AM
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All-In [27363]
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Re: ...that's the point...of the post......***
Sep 8, 2013, 11:57 AM
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Thanks soccerkrzy. I guess you don't have to be a tarheel to "not get it" !!!
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Rock Defender [53]
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I get what you're saying....
Sep 8, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Apparently you don't get that sometimes teams CHOOSE to play defense first. But hey, if you wanna continue being a jack ### about it, more power to ya. Just know that if you were standing in front of me and called me anything resembling a tarhole, I'd punch you square in the neck 
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All-In [32580]
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Please cite ONE example, that wasn't a mistake, of a team
Sep 9, 2013, 4:06 PM
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winning the toss and CHOOSING to play defense - since the "defer" option was added to the rules.
Just one.
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110%er [6692]
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Crickets...***
Sep 10, 2013, 12:59 AM
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Walk-On [148]
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Re: The genius is being revealed
Sep 8, 2013, 11:57 AM
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Read my reply again DrNakamats.
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Scout Team [192]
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Is this really a post right now.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:16 PM
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The UNC captain lost the toss therefore the choice was not his to make. If you kickoff you get the ball after halftime. You can't get the ball at the start of the game and at the start of the second half.
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All-American [583]
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Re: Is this really a post right now.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:27 PM
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This is not true. The other team deferred their choice to the second half, so they get to choose whether to kick or receive in the second half. Since UNC chose to kick in the first half, the other team gets the ball first at both the start of the game and after the half (should they choose to receive then, which, obviously, they will).
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Rock Defender [53]
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Correct.***
Sep 8, 2013, 12:28 PM
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Varsity [220]
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Re: The genius is being revealed
Sep 8, 2013, 12:20 PM
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Not trying to pile on DrN, but I think you're just misunderstanding what happens when a team chooses to go on defense first.
At the beginning of each half, one team decides whether to kickoff or receive. The coin flip is to determine who gets the first choice, and the loser of the coin toss gets the choice in the other half. If the team that wins the coin flip wants to go on defense first, which is common, they defer their option to select kickoff/receive until the 2nd half, thereby allowing the team that lost the flip to choose whether to kick or receive in the 1st half.
If you win the coin toss and just outright choose to kick, you're doing 2 things: giving the other team the ball first, and allowing the other team to use their option to kick/receive in the 2nd half. Obviously they're going to choose to receive. So you're giving them the ball to start both halves, which I've never ever ever ever ever seen in the hundreds if not thousands of football games I've watched, unless someone pulls a bonehead move like the UNC play did yesterday.
It is very common for a team to want to go on defense to start the game, but it's with the intent that they'll receive the opening kick of the 2nd half. The ONLY way to do this is choosing to "defer" when you win the opening coin flip.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Nah, I'm not at all confused..
Sep 8, 2013, 12:24 PM
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When you win a toss, you can either receive, kickoff, or defer, correct? By kicking off you are choosing to play defense first. It's rare and often ridiculed, like here, but nonetheless that IS the rule and sometimes it does happen.
That's all I've said from the beginning. I'm not confused at all.
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Varsity [220]
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Re: Nah, I'm not at all confused..
Sep 8, 2013, 12:29 PM
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Ok...I'll concede you do know the rule, but you're dead wrong that any team ever chooses to kick. That's just silly. Like I said in my post, it's extremely common for a team to want to go on D first, but they don't just choose to kick. They defer to the 2nd half.
I'm not going to respond anymore bc it's a waste, but if you really think a team would ever purposely allow the other team to start both halves with the ball, you must not pay attention much.
Have a good one doc, Go Tigers.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Never is a strong word...
Sep 8, 2013, 12:30 PM
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..and not correct. Rare is more like it.
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CU Guru [1038]
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A team would NEVER choose to kickoff first
Sep 8, 2013, 12:41 PM
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If a coach wants to play defense first and won the coin toss their response to the ref would be "we defer our choice to the second half" Then the team that lost the coin toss now gets to choose to kick or receive to start the game. The team that won the coin toss would then choose to kick or receive to start the second half. I dont understand why you're being so dense about this.
Apparently, you've never played a down of football in your life other than on playstation or xbox.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Never is incorrect.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Teams HAVE won tosses and chose to play defense. Rare, yes; never, no.
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All-In [32580]
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One example ? You are thinking about times before the
Sep 9, 2013, 4:09 PM
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"defer" part was in the rules.
Used to be at the toss you won and you picked being on offense or defense first.
The opposite of what was choosen was done at the start of the 2nd half.
But since the "defer" got added - tell us ONE case of someone MEANING to give the ball to the other team to start each half.
You will not find it.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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One example is Washington vs The U 1994
Sep 10, 2013, 1:40 AM
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Huskies ended Miami's 58 game home win streak. Miami player mistakenly chose to kickoff after winning the coin toss instead of deferring and Washington got the ball both halves.
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All-In [32580]
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Part of my request to the good Dr. is to cite one example of
Sep 10, 2013, 7:22 AM
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a team winning the toss and they MEAN TO choose the option of playing defense to start the first half.
That means the other team gets to pick what happens to start the 2nd half. They will pick receive.
So they get the ball 1st ea half.
One example of a team intentionally doing this.
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Orange Blooded [2380]
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Re: Nah, I'm not at all confused..
Sep 8, 2013, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to Nah, I'm not at all confused.. ] |
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Wow! I have read every post on this thread & have laughed my rear off.
If I were you, I believe I would say I'm confused, otherwise you look completely DUMB!!!
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Rock Defender [53]
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Feel free to explain.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:39 PM
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Stating the rule is dumb, really?
My bad in that UNC actually lost the toss though.
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All-American [583]
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Re: Nah, I'm not at all confused..
Sep 8, 2013, 12:33 PM
[ in reply to Nah, I'm not at all confused.. ] |
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By choosing to kickoff you are choosing BOTH to play defense first AND to give the other team the ball at the start of both halves. I guess you do have a point that that is the only way to guarantee you play defense first, though. A really stupid way, but that is the only way.
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Rock Defender [53]
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That has never been disputed.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:47 PM
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Please read my posts in this thread.
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Orange Blooded [4299]
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I'm sorry but the DR is intentionally being dense here
Sep 8, 2013, 12:56 PM
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Let's ask the simple question. Dr, do you think that it is wise for a team to elect to "go on defense" first at the start of BOTH halves?
Because if you think so, then by all means, please explain that strategy to us... we are all ears.
If you, like every other football fan in the world, thinks it's not a good idea then please admit that you were mistaken and didn't understand the original post. Because, if a team chooses to "Kick" then they WILL be kicking off first on BOTH halves. When you choose to "DEFER" the other team will smartly choose to "Receive", otherwise they will be kicking off for BOTH halves.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Nope.
Sep 8, 2013, 12:59 PM
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I have made ZERO statements as to whether or not I think it's a good choice to play defense first. I stated teams can choose to play defense first, and they have done it. That is entirely true, right? The only mistake I made was that UNC didn't actually win the toss. Find any of my words that say otherwise.
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All-TigerNet [13764]
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Re: The genius is being revealed
Sep 8, 2013, 1:03 PM
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This thread is hilarious
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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^^^ .***
Sep 8, 2013, 1:08 PM
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All-TigerNet [13764]
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This thread has more backpeddling
Sep 8, 2013, 1:13 PM
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than a skill drill for the defensive secondary!!
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Legend [16900]
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Re: The genius is being revealed
Sep 9, 2013, 1:36 PM
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I'm only jumping in here to say that, stupid or not, it does happen. This article claims it has happened 10 time in the NFL through 2006 - http://quirkyresearch.blogspot.com/2006/07/nfl-games-in-which-winner-of-coin-toss.html. I know it has happened in college because I've heard announcers go on and on about it when it has happened - and I've really only watched NFL for a few years. Some quick googling showed it happened in a Nebraska game in 2010 - and was equally confusing to people.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Exactly. That IS the rule and teams HAVE chosen to play
Sep 9, 2013, 1:58 PM
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defense first.
Some people just love to be jack ### apparently...even when undeniably incorrect.
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Legend [15730]
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Are you arguing that UNC meant to do this? ******
Sep 9, 2013, 2:25 PM
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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In your research, does did you see if these teams meant
Sep 9, 2013, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: The genius is being revealed ] |
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to make sure the other team got to start each half by returning a kickoff...or did the player screw it up?
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Sounds like #1 made a mistake.
Sep 9, 2013, 2:16 PM
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There's no denying that it is very much against the norm to elect to kick. It even states in that article a coach was fired, partly, for electing to do so.
Also, some of those were in OT weren't they? How does that affect the rationale for kicking? I'm not sure how OT was handled half a century ago lol.
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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I recall one NFL coach won the toss and elected
Sep 9, 2013, 2:19 PM
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to defer. Said he wanted to make sure the wind was where he wanted it to be. His team never controlled the ball after it left the tee.
Once in high school, my teak kicked off two times. We were by about 30 at half time and one guy had already been benched because he returned a punt for a touchdown.
Message was edited by: aerozeptallica®
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Rock Defender [53]
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"it is very much against the norm to elect to kick"
Sep 9, 2013, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to Sounds like #1 made a mistake. ] |
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Actually, when winning the toss, good defenses will sometimes choose to play defense first to set a tone. I wouldn't say "it is very much against the norm".
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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Once again, they don't "choose to play defense", they defer***
Sep 9, 2013, 2:27 PM
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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Some folks just don't listen.***
Sep 9, 2013, 2:44 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Of course they do, but they usually choose to defer, not
Sep 9, 2013, 2:30 PM
[ in reply to "it is very much against the norm to elect to kick" ] |
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kick. Out of the thousands of games played, I see 10 examples (didn't read all them) cited in that article of teams choosing to play defense first for BOTH halves.
Saying it is against the norm is actually more of an understatement than anything.
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All-In [32580]
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These appear to all be OT games. And they are talking about
Sep 10, 2013, 7:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: The genius is being revealed ] |
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the OT coin toss.
Totally different deal. Not at all what we are talking about.
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All-In [30764]
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it's like being a coot
Sep 9, 2013, 2:00 PM
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Not against the rules, but you will be branded a dummy.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Perhaps, but not the point at all.***
Sep 9, 2013, 2:19 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81607]
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That. Was. Entirely. The. Point. Of. This. Thread.***
Sep 9, 2013, 2:25 PM
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Know-it-all [2692]
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There is no instance where choosing to kick off first
Sep 9, 2013, 2:08 PM
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will result in the opposing team receiving the kick AGAIN to start the second half. You choose to either kick first and receive second or vice verse.
When the coin is flipped, the team that wins the toss can either:
1) Choose if they want to receive the kickoff to start the game or at the beginning of the second half.
2) Choose which end of the field to defend to start he game.
Whichever choice the winning team doesn't make is left up to their opposition. So, hypothetically, you could win the toss and, for some reason, decide it is more important that you defend a particular end-zone first. No one ever does that because it is so much more important to choose whether you get the ball first or at the beginning of the second half.
Teams very, very frequently decide to kick off first so that they can have what is commonly seen as the more critical of the two kickoffs - the one at the beginning of the second half. But there isn't some third option whereby they can be forced to kick off at the beginning of both halves.
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Know-it-all [2692]
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Wait, no.
Sep 9, 2013, 2:10 PM
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I appear to be completely wrong. Ignore that.
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Trainer [34]
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All-In [32580]
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No - this is different. VTech won the toss to start the
Sep 9, 2013, 4:18 PM
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game and deferred.
We chose to receive.
So at the start of the 2nd half - VTech could either kick off (again) or receive.
Beamer chose to kick off again - they "elected" to kick off again.
Must have been a weather thing . . . but not the same thing as what is being talked about here.
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110%er [7148]
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DrNakamats, you original reply and I quote
Sep 9, 2013, 2:59 PM
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"Dude, hate to break the bad news to you, but some times teams choose to play defense first."
While correct,.... , comes across that you do not understand the error in what happened and are just confusing it with a team who wins the toss and elects to kick.
Edit: I'll add this, adding the "Dude" at the front of the sentence furthers my suspicion...
Message was edited by: dw1959®
Message was edited by: dw1959®
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Legend [16900]
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Re: DrNakamats, you original reply and I quote
Sep 9, 2013, 4:10 PM
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In dr. Whoever's defense there were several replies that stated emphatically that this "never" happens. There are also an alarmingly large number of replies by people, who spend a considerable amount of time watching and writing on message boards about football, that don't have the faintest understanding of how the coin flip works. Some of those same people are also the ones who like to immediately accuse anyone who disagrees with them of having never played football. Some replies asked for examples of this ever happening as they believed it "never" happened. I didn't see anyone provide any reference so I provided a link above,
Now, contrary to Dr. Whoever's opinion, 10 times out of the history of the NFL and a handful of college games is most certainly "outside the norm." And yes, UNC/Davis made a bone headed mistake but anyone who follows that up by asserting that there is no scenario where a team chooses to open on defense is simply flat out mistaken.
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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I'll admit I was wrong, I would have thought this would
Sep 9, 2013, 4:20 PM
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never happen, although, a few of those times seem to have been a mistake. From the sound of it, officials seem to think you are misunderstanding the rules when you elect to kick lol.
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110%er [7148]
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Since you replied to me... I'll reply to you
Sep 9, 2013, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: DrNakamats, you original reply and I quote ] |
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I said he is correct. Again I said he is correct, he just comes across as not understanding the error in what happened. I never said this "never" happens and I will say it again, he is correct.
But the tone of the reply, especially the "dude" remark implies that again, he just doesn't understand exactly what happened and frankly is somewhat derogatory to the op.
You certainly can defend his correctness but I doubt you can defend his understanding of the situation.
Message was edited by: dw1959®
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All-In [32580]
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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This is an amazing thread!
Sep 9, 2013, 3:04 PM
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I just had to get a post in on what should certainly be a hall of fame thread. Fine fine reading lol.
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1st Rounder [641]
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Well I've learned two things today....
Sep 9, 2013, 3:20 PM
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1. Dr. Nakanuts has a hard time admitting he's wrong- God bless Mrs. Nakanuts.
2.He has 4 scocks.
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All-In [32580]
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Point #2 is the ONLY thing in this entire thread that is
Sep 9, 2013, 4:14 PM
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COMPLETELY TRUE ! ! !
LOL !
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CU Guru [1289]
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Re: Well I've learned two things today....
Sep 9, 2013, 4:47 PM
[ in reply to Well I've learned two things today.... ] |
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Both are certainly true, and I'll admit that I learned more about kick-off rules than I had previously known. Didn't realize there was a way to screw up and not receive the ball for either half! (See Dr. N...it wasn't that hard to say...)
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CU Guru [1649]
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MVP [548]
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Welp, reading this was certainly uncomfortable
Sep 9, 2013, 3:58 PM
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yet funny at the same time.
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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If it was uncomfortable, mayhaps you need a better chair.***
Sep 9, 2013, 4:16 PM
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Enthusiast [149]
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why would u always want the ball first?...
Sep 9, 2013, 4:45 PM
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If I was at home I would want D first....then again ur playstation madden victories are bigger than anyone who has played the game
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Legend [15730]
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What in the world...?******
Sep 9, 2013, 4:52 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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A bird in the bush is worth two hands...
Sep 9, 2013, 4:56 PM
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you're welcome
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110%er [7148]
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I thought you said bush...***
Sep 9, 2013, 5:08 PM
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CU Guru [1895]
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People should know the rules, but it's a dumb rule.***
Sep 9, 2013, 5:30 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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Just curious, what makes it dumb?***
Sep 10, 2013, 12:23 AM
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Orange Blooded [2340]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2597
Joined: 9/5/05
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How did Dr whoever get so many thumbs up????
Sep 9, 2013, 10:23 PM
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I can't see how anyone would think he's being anything other than completely stubborn.
Message was edited by: cornstock®
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Trainer [36]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 48
Joined: 6/15/12
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Wow...
Sep 9, 2013, 10:35 PM
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This is how the argument with my wife typically goes when I ask her to choose the restaurant when we go out to eat...."Honey, I will eat at any restaurant within a 10 mile radius, what would you like?" Her, "I don't know, what do you want?" Me, "Let me rephrase my statement, if you choose a restaurant in the greater Greenville area, I will be happy to eat there with you." Her, "So, what are you in the mood for." Me,"I would like food at a restaurant." Her, "i know that, but tell me what you would like." Me, "I want cereal now. I am done with this conversation. You can go eat with the kids."
Next time I am going to google "Greenville restaurants" and print her the list...and use the method of DrNakamats.
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CU Guru [1540]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3017
Joined: 6/21/05
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If memory serves me correctly, this has happened before but
Sep 9, 2013, 10:56 PM
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on purpose. Clemson v Maryland 1982: Tigers kicked off to open each half so they could have the wind at their backs in 2nd and 4th quarters.
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All-In [32580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14886
Joined: 6/29/11
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Can't be. If we truly chose to kickoff, we don't get to pick
Sep 10, 2013, 7:37 AM
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what direction we play. You don't get both choices. The other team gets one choice of these 2 things.
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Scout Team [189]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 374
Joined: 7/20/12
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why is this tough for people to understand
Sep 10, 2013, 7:44 AM
[ in reply to If memory serves me correctly, this has happened before but ] |
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When you win the toss you get to choose what you want to do. Kick, receive or defer. If you choose to kick or receive then the opposing team gets to choose what they want to do in the second half.
That's why it's called "defer to the second half" the team is pushing their choice to the second half.
So basically if the guy chose to "kick" then he is losing a possession for his team
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Scout Team [194]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 248
Joined: 8/31/12
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Re: why is this tough for people to understand
Sep 11, 2013, 3:23 PM
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I really wish the stats would reflect the turnover, but I'm not sure how you could capture it. Maybe go the baseball route and add an Error column to the box score?
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