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Orange Blooded [3521]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Conference Records since 2009.....
May 5, 2013, 1:13 PM
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3 of Beamer's 8 losses were to Swinney. Swinney is undefeated against Beamer.
We were 10-7 in the ACC in 2009-2010. We're 14-3 since.
Dabo is 15-1 at home.
Team …. W/P …. W-L
Virginia Tech …. 0.765 …. 26-8
Clemson …. 0.706 …. 24-10
Florida State …. 0.676 …. 23-11
Georgia Tech …. 0.647 …. 22-12
Miami …. 0.562 …. 18-14
North Carolina …. 0.500 …. 16-16
NC State …. 0.469 …. 15-17
Boston College …. 0.406 …. 13-19
Wake Forest …. 0.375 …. 12-20
Virginia …. 0.312 …. 10-22
Maryland …. 0.281 …. 9-23
Duke …. 0.250 …. 8-24
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Orange Blooded [2989]
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So do Swinney's interim games count? He did kind of have a
May 5, 2013, 11:15 PM
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mess on his hands halfway through that season.
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Legend [15526]
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Re: So do Swinney's interim games count? He did kind of have a
May 6, 2013, 8:10 AM
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They really should have counted as much as if a coach started in the summer at a program. IMO.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Wait a minute....
May 5, 2013, 1:14 PM
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They put Golden (13-11, 2 seasons) and Fedora (8-4, 1 season) over Dabo????
Dabo is 40-21 in 5 seasons with 2 ACC championship appearances, an ACC championship, top-notch recruiting, and a significant bowl win over a national powerhouse
This is absurd. How can you say an 8-4 Larry Fedora is ahead of Dabo? Get outta here
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Orange Blooded [2227]
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I guess he is going by overall X's and O's
May 5, 2013, 1:18 PM
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coach but if that is the case he needs to flip Jimbo and Cutcliffe.
Fedora is a great X's and O's guy as well as Cutcliffe and I would even put Paul Johnson up there as well.
But if you are going by X's and O's you are going to find mainly former OC's at the top of that list.
FWIW, Chad Morris would be 1 or 2 on that list.
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Rock Defender [53]
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That doesn't make any sense.....
May 5, 2013, 1:27 PM
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Frank Beamer is #1? "X's and O's"??
Clearly his attempt is to rank head coaches and the job they do as head coaches. Experience calling plays or setting a defense has nothing to do with it.
It's about winning games as CEO, and his rankings are hilarious.
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Legend [15216]
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I can see putting PJ and Beamer ahead of Dabo because they
May 5, 2013, 1:23 PM
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have had the years to prove themselves. I also think Cutcliffe is a bit underrated.
I can't really see putting Jimbo, Golden, or Fedora over Dabo at this point. I'm not saying they will not become better coaches than Dabo, but it's hard to rank them ahead of him at this time.
Similarly, Dabo may become better than PJ and Beamer but it's too early to judge right now.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Jimbo quickly turned around a struggling FSU, Golden won at
May 5, 2013, 1:38 PM
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Temple, which has never done anything.
Dabo could never byuild or turn around a program. He stepped into a perfect situation where the prior coach was run off because despite winning 8/9 games every year and greatly under achieving.
All Dabo has done is get us where we should have been under TB given our competition and talent. How did he do it? He hired Morris. That was the key.
Don't forget, Dabo had a mind bogging losing season and a lot of bad loses the first few yeas. He made some mind numbing coaching hires too. Morris has far more to do with where we are right now than Dabo.
The difference in Dabo and TB? Offensive coordinators. TB is actually a better coach. He simply failed to effective replace RichRod. Put Dabo as head coach with Mike O'Cain as OC and he has a worse record than TB.
And our defense has been much worse under Dabo than TB.
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Rock Defender [53]
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So you say Dabo is winning because of talent he inherited 5
May 5, 2013, 2:13 PM
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years ago, but Jimbo turned around a struggling FSU program?? LOL at you. But that's just for starters.
Dabo could never byuild or turn around a program.
You mean in spite of the fact he has?
He stepped into a perfect situation where the prior coach was run off because despite winning 8/9 games every year and greatly under achieving.
The situation was far from perfect, and we were winning less than 8 games a year. Get your facts straight.
All Dabo has done is get us where we should have been under TB given our competition and talent.
So wait, he has turned us around in spite of you saying he never will? Are you confused? The competition is no different or maybe better than it's ever been, and the talent is clearly better as well. Look at the players we've been winning with - who recruited them?
How did he do it? He hired Morris. That was the key.
Every good coach in America leans on good assistants.
Don't forget, Dabo had a mind bogging losing season and a lot of bad loses the first few yeas.
2010 was rough with lack of playmakers and a lack of creativity on offense, but what has he done since then? He "turned it around".
Too, all good coaches have some bad seasons on their resume. Every last one of them.
He made some mind numbing coaching hires too.
Every good coach in America has fired coaches they hired. It happens everywhere in every segment of society.
Morris has far more to do with where we are right now than Dabo.
Morris is no doubt a great assistant coach who has improved our program, but he wouldn't be here if it weren't for the CEO and his leadership. Also see, "all good coaches rely on good assistants" above.
The difference in Dabo and TB?
Dabo is winning more because he's a better coach. That's all there is to it.
And our defense has been much worse under Dabo than TB.
Not really. Steele had a couple good seasons, but obviously fell off in 2010. Venables inherited a mess and lost 3 starters in the secondary. The defense improved over the course of the season and we will be improved there in 2013.
So there you have it. Everything you said has been completely shot down. Please stop using the same nonsense that's been shot down several times over. Okay, Blue Caddy?
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Virtuoso [610]
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Every one of your facts is incorrect. Even Dabo said all we
May 5, 2013, 2:46 PM
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needed was an oil change and then promptly had a losing season in an easier ACC with far more talent than when TB got here.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Every one of your facts is incorrect. Even Dabo said all we
May 5, 2013, 2:57 PM
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He was speaking about that 2008 team needing an oil change. They went from looking pathetic against Wake and Maryland to winning on the road and beating SCar.
When you say "promptly" you conveniently leave out Dabo winning a division title which Tommy could never do - despite having more talent in 2007 and 2008 than the 2009 team did.
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Virtuoso [610]
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TB had a harder schedule, less talent. TB rebuilt CU. FACTS***
May 5, 2013, 2:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: TB had a harder schedule, less talent. TB rebuilt CU. FACTS***
May 5, 2013, 3:24 PM
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TB did help rebuild; I completely agree with that.
Let's not kid ourselves that Cullen Harper, James Davis, CJ, Jacoby, Grisham, and Aaron Kelly isn't better than a freshman KP, CJ, and Jacoby. Michael Palmer stepped up as a senior in 2009 after having 30 catches in 3 seasons.
Our secondary with Hamlin, Clemons, Chancellor, Butler, McDaniel & Gilchrist filling in, etc. was better than the 2009 group.
The difference between 2007 or 08 and 2009 is the leadership of the Head coach and offensive philosophy. Look at a 2 deep from 07 or 08 - there is tons of talent on that D Line and secondary. We just couldn't get it done. Dabo has got it done since he took over and deserves the credit for that.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: Jimbo quickly turned around a struggling FSU, Golden won at
May 5, 2013, 11:13 PM
[ in reply to Jimbo quickly turned around a struggling FSU, Golden won at ] |
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So Dabo is not a good coach BC he made a bad hire at OC but TB is a better coach bc he would not replace the bad hire he made at OC? Am I getting it right?
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CU Guru [1321]
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He basically says Morris is 70% of Dabo's success.***
May 5, 2013, 1:26 PM
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Virtuoso [610]
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More like 90. Dabo took a program winning 8/9 games a year
May 5, 2013, 1:42 PM
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with terrible OC's and quickly had a losing season.
Had TB found an effective replacement for RichRod he'd still be our HC and we'd be right where we are now, or better, which is where we should have been years ago given our talent and competition.
We will win or lose based on how well Dabo replaces Morris.
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Legend [19202]
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Dabo put quality recriting classes together and hired
May 5, 2013, 5:47 PM
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quality coordinators = good head man = good coach.
GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Gonna be really good when Venables accounts for another 70%
May 5, 2013, 1:56 PM
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All good coaches rely on good assistants. It's ludicrous to insinuate otherwise.
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Virtuoso [610]
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You are confusing relying on good assistants with being
May 5, 2013, 2:48 PM
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carried by good coaches. Dabo is being carried.
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110%er [6781]
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^^^^^^^professional micro manager.
May 5, 2013, 3:17 PM
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Check out a few books on strengths based leadership. I think you'll like them.
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Rock Defender [53]
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CU Guru [1321]
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Virtuoso [610]
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Dabo is not a good coach, but he is a great cheerleader, a
May 5, 2013, 1:27 PM
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great recruiter, and after some incredibly stupid hires, he now has Morris and Venables. That, however, does not guarantee continued success. We've had plenty of talent for years, but poor coaching and motivation.
TB's success was largely thanks to RichRod. His failure to effectively replace RR ultimately led to his firing. Dabo currently has a 50/50 record in the hiring department. The key to continued success for Dabo is dependent on how effectively he replaces Morris.
We all know Morris is very likely gone within the next two years, quite possibly after this season. Whoever replaces him will decide whether Dabo continues to be praised.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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I'll probably get land blasted but,....
May 5, 2013, 1:31 PM
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Danny Ford was a terrible x and o coach and made many gameday blunders to prove it. He was however, a freat motivator and recruiter of men. He was also surrounded by an exceptional staff.
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CU Guru [1298]
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Re: I'll probably get land blasted but,....
May 5, 2013, 1:48 PM
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"Land Blasted"? Did you possibly mean "lambasted"?
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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LoL...You ain't from around here, are you?***
May 5, 2013, 2:03 PM
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110%er [7010]
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Re: LoL...You ain't from around here, are you?***
May 6, 2013, 9:13 PM
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Germans.....
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CU Guru [1321]
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Virtuoso [610]
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lol Ford was 10x the coach Dabo is. He had a lot of coaching
May 5, 2013, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to I'll probably get land blasted but,.... ] |
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turnover but continually built CU into a great program because he believed in toughness and understood winning was determined at the line of scrimmage.
Ford was Dabo's age when he was run of by Max. Ford was only 32 when he won the NC.
Yea, he made some mistakes early on, but he was a lot younger and far less experienced when he took over, but he was a heck of a lot better coach than Dabo. And we were feared and had great OL and incredible defenses.
Ford and Dabo have totally different philosophies and Ford had at least 5 teams that would stomp the best Dabo has done so far.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Hey Blue Caddy..
May 5, 2013, 1:54 PM
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Coach Ford was a CEO exactly like Dabo. Ford didn't coach offense and he didn't coach defense. He got out of the way and relied on good assistants. That, and Ford inherited one of the most talented programs in America while feasting on a weaker ACC. Still, he lost games every year that we should've won, and it kept us out of several other chances at a national title.
Save the NC year, this past season was as successful as any non-probation season we had under Ford.
And Dabo is just getting started.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Ford was an OL player and coach and had more of a
May 5, 2013, 2:52 PM
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solid philosophy and toughness than Dabo can comprehend. Ford understood the game, Dabo was a mediocre WR coach that was given jobs by friends.
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Legend [15216]
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Yeah, a program like Alabama just hands out jobs and lets
May 5, 2013, 3:11 PM
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anyone start in a national championship game.
You've gotta be joking. The only thing Dabo didn't earn was the head coaching job at Clemson. However, he has done a pretty solid job so far.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Ford is on record as saying the smartest coaching move he
May 5, 2013, 10:53 PM
[ in reply to Ford was an OL player and coach and had more of a ] |
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ever did was step aside and let his good assistants coach. Ford didn't do anything but lead. Just like Dabo. Dabo obviously understands the game and that's why we're succeeding at a level not seen in decades, against a harder ACC than what Ford faced. And Ford still lost lots of games he should have won, and had he won them we could have played for more than one national championship.
You apparently still enjoy getting smacked around.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Legend [15216]
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110%er [8681]
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Virtuoso [610]
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With CJ Spiller and the weakest division in college football
May 5, 2013, 2:54 PM
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This division crap is a crutch and I knew it would be when they came about. It's meaningless. Winning the conference is all that matters.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Not the weakest division. Not at all. CJ Spiller was one guy
May 5, 2013, 10:55 PM
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and the ACC is tougher today than when Ford was racking up wins, but still losing games he shouldn't.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: With CJ Spiller and the weakest division in college football
May 5, 2013, 11:35 PM
[ in reply to With CJ Spiller and the weakest division in college football ] |
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it was also his first year as a head coach and he did beat teams with tons of more talent (FSU and @Miami) and one of the most noticable games was the first GT game even though we lost the team still showed fight in them after falling down 21-0 and eventually came back to take the lead, if that was a team coached under TB it would have been a 30 point loss.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Blue Caddy your ridiculous mantra has been proven wrong over
May 5, 2013, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Dabo is not a good coach, but he is a great cheerleader, a ] |
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and over again. Why do you keep trying?
Dabo is irrefutably building a strong program. He's winning games and has us in annual contention for conference championships, BCS bowls, and yes even national championships.
He has a chance to be the most successful coach in Clemson history. He's an excellent head coach, leader, role model, his players love him, coaches like coaching with him, and obviously he's an excellent motivator (see "winning games").
Your typical talking points:
- YOU: "He's made some bad hires"
FACT: Every single coach (and CEO) in America has fired coaches they hired. It happens.
- YOU: "We've had plenty of talent for years"
FACT: We had some good players in spots but have lacked the depth of the best programs in America. That depth is obviously growing. And we are obviously making big strides on a national scale.
- YOU: "Dabo has been successful only because of his assistants"
FACT: Every good coach in America relies on good assistants.
When will you stop using these tired attempts to downplay the job Dabo is doing? He's already succeeded at a level you predicted he wouldn't.
Dabo is winning at a rate we haven't seen in decades, against a more difficult ACC. Dabo is clearly a good coach who looks to be growing into a great coach and possible Clemson legend.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Yor facts are wrong or weak spin.***
May 5, 2013, 2:55 PM
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Athletic Dir [861]
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Which ones?
May 7, 2013, 8:58 AM
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You can look at recruiting rankings from before and after Dabo was hired and see that for the first time since the 80's we are consistently drawing top 15 classes. Under TB we would have 1 good class then maybe 2 bad ones. Or a bad class with one great player. We were never this consistent in our recruiting though. Maybe Dabo should recruit terrible players to show how good of a coach he is with bad talent? Or should he hire bad assistants to show he can do it all on his own? I guess I just don't understand what you want. You have admitted that Dabo is a great recruiter and has done a good job hiring quality assistants but say that this shows he is a bad coach. Meanwhile Paul Johnson continues to recruit poorly and hire terrible DC's. GT is steadily declining but he's a coaching genius...a great X's and O's guy? Who cares I'll take Dabo! I'll take 10 and 11 win seasons! I'll take ACC championships! I'll take huge wins over perennial national powerhouses!
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Legend [15216]
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The only bad hire Dabo made was Napier. And Napier was just
May 5, 2013, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to Blue Caddy your ridiculous mantra has been proven wrong over ] |
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thrown into the fire too quickly, like Dabo.
Steele was not a bad hire IMO. Even Venables had a terrible defense for the majority of last season. And even Steele had a few games where he earned his paycheck in 2011.
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Legend [19352]
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Amateur [48]
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Re: Steve Lassan/Athlon ranks Dabo as only 6th best ACC coach
May 5, 2013, 1:52 PM
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This is a HEAD coach ranking, he makes a great point about how his assistants are the reason why for Clemson's recent success. Since Chad Morris arrived, Clemson is 21-6 compared to 19-15 without Chad Morris....
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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so how far has sos fallen, since his DEFENSE has carried
May 5, 2013, 1:55 PM
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the team the last 4 yrs. no offense to speak of, from the self-proclaimed offensive genius.
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Amateur [48]
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Re: so how far has sos fallen, since his DEFENSE has carried
May 5, 2013, 2:06 PM
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In 2009 we averaged 21 points, in 2010 we averaged 31 points, in 2011 we averaged 30 points, and in 2012 we averaged 31. 5 points. That sounds like a pretty good offense to me. Take in account the of the defense we do play compared to y'all, it's a pretty good scenario. Yes the defense carried us in some situations while the offense carried us in some situation. We are a very balanced team compared to Clemson who's offense carried them throughout the last couple of seasons.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Managed to get on probation during that same period.
May 5, 2013, 2:23 PM
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A slap on the wrist however. SEC indeed.
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Amateur [48]
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Re: Managed to get on probation during that same period.
May 5, 2013, 2:45 PM
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Haha I see you could not respond except saying we were on probation even though the university cooperated soundly and that's why they did not get a bowl ban.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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the sec cried about lost revenue if usuc were to be banned
May 5, 2013, 5:24 PM
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from bowl games. y'alls probation was a joke, and everyone in the country, except sec fans know this. the sec is "above the law" at least that is what they (and espn) thinks. when the other conf.'s start banding together to build tv revenues to compete with the sec, and the sec has to schedule all conf. games and throw in the mid-major's, tv $ will follow the high-name games excluding the sec teams. think about it like this, most power conf. schools academics are light yrs. ahead of the sec schools, and those alums are the ones who will be in charge of the sports programming networks. enjoy the publicity while it lasts, we all know things change.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Amateur [48]
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Re: Scoring Offense:
May 5, 2013, 2:49 PM
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You must not have looked at my numbers, 2009 season had a bad offense but the last three have been good averaging about 30 points a game. With a good defense that should be plenty and look at the defenses we have played over the last three years. These aren't over-inflated statistics like Clemson's offense when they play ACC defenses, or a standout offense who plays in the WAC or any other garbage conference.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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LoL
May 5, 2013, 3:03 PM
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We had 32 first downs and 445 yds, last time we faced one of thiose vaulted SEC defenses.
Padded stats, indeed.
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Amateur [48]
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Re: LoL
May 5, 2013, 3:09 PM
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1 game, that is not a large sample size...please provide OTHER examples other than the LSU game please.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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bu...bu...but....ESPN said that we should just roll over.
May 5, 2013, 3:13 PM
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Did the mighty SEC have a more worthy adversary for us? You know, one that's not on probation?
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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And, let's keep on ignoring Auburn.***
May 5, 2013, 3:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: LoL ] |
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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And, too bad we couldn't play Vandy or Kentucky.
May 5, 2013, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: LoL ] |
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Or, a very crappy UT. Which, we stomped a mudhole in, last time we played em.
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Amateur [48]
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Re: And, too bad we couldn't play Vandy or Kentucky.
May 5, 2013, 3:51 PM
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Thank you for proving my point by providing NO other examples
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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You still ignoring Auburn? Are they noit a member of the
May 5, 2013, 3:58 PM
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mighty SEC? You know, the Auburn that whooped y'all?
What do you want me to say, coot? Congrats on your 5th place?
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Amateur [48]
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Joined: 12/30/12
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Re: You still ignoring Auburn? Are they noit a member of the
May 5, 2013, 6:33 PM
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Congrats on beating a 8-5 & 2-10 Auburn team!
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Team Captain [489]
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Oh, so you don't want us to play SEC teams in general?
May 5, 2013, 6:42 PM
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You just want us to play the elite SEC teams. Y'all pump the SEC all the time and then say well they were not that good that year. SEC team is an SEC team plain and simple. If you do not mean to include all of the SEC then choose the handful of teams you want to discuss.
Thank you
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1st Rounder [646]
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Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the 8-5 Auburn team beat
May 5, 2013, 8:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: You still ignoring Auburn? Are they noit a member of the ] |
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SC in Columbia? Your offense scored 13 and ours scored 38. That was in one of the years you were bragging about your O playing great defenses and ours using inflated stats against ACC defenses
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110%er [8681]
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If he want to inflat our stats
May 5, 2013, 11:52 PM
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we could have easily racked up 800-900 yards on Wake and Duke
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110%er [8681]
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I meant if we wanted to inflate our stats***
May 5, 2013, 11:53 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Um, I think YOU missed the numbers....
May 5, 2013, 10:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Scoring Offense: ] |
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Your best year was 38th.
Your defense has CLEARLY carried your team. You're either blind, in denial, or just plain dumb if you can't see that.
Oh, and you don't even play the best defenses in your conference.
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Amateur [48]
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Re: Um, I think YOU missed the numbers....
May 6, 2013, 1:15 PM
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Clearly you misunderstood what I was talking about, I was not talking about the ranking, I talked about how many points we averaged. Also, I know our defense carried our team AT TIMES. Also we ranked 11 in total defense, which is still pretty good.
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: so how far has sos fallen, since his DEFENSE has carried
May 5, 2013, 11:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: so how far has sos fallen, since his DEFENSE has carried ] |
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Ball State scored 27 on our defense last year BC scored 31 and NC State scored 48 so your offense is about as good as Ball State. also we played 3 SEC teams last year which averaged 23.3 ppg while ACC teams averaged 27.38 ppg against our D. So over the last two years and 5 games against SEC teams our D has given up an avg of 26.15 ppg while giving up 28 ppg agaisnt ACC competition.
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Amateur [48]
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Re: so how far has sos fallen, since his DEFENSE has carried
May 6, 2013, 1:22 PM
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Come on man, you have to do better than this. Are you really comparing us to Ball State? Are you really saying that the ACC is better than the SEC just because your defense could not stop weak ACC offenses? Over the last 2 seasons the SEC is 11-4 vs the ACC and Clemson/Florida State are the only one's with victories.
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Virtuoso [610]
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The fanatics on TNET are kool aid drinkers that fall all
May 5, 2013, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Steve Lassan/Athlon ranks Dabo as only 6th best ACC coach ] |
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over themselves for good chrissen men that coach at Clemson. They have zero objectivity. Every coach and administrator at Clemson is praised by them regardless of how inept.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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I love Danny!
May 5, 2013, 3:04 PM
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Ineptness as a gameday coach and all.
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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CU Medallion [67819]
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Re: did he give points for playing
May 5, 2013, 2:03 PM
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those with criminal records or shady academics? That could certainly move Frank, Jimbo, Golden, and Fedora up the list.
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All-TigerNet [11099]
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Re: Steve Lassan/Athlon ranks Dabo as only 6th best ACC coach
May 5, 2013, 2:55 PM
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I don't understand this writer's logic. If hiring good assistants were the reasons we are winning, would that not make Dabo a better coach for hiring them? Isn't that what good coaches do? They hire good assistants.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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This is moronic. What criteria is he using? I'm not going to
May 5, 2013, 7:23 PM
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defend Dabo as an Xs and Os guy but if that's his criterion then Jim Grobe should be in the top 2. Any knock one could have on Dabo I think applies equally to Jimbo Fisher so I don't see how he could be that high. Paul Johnson's stock is falling QUICKLY.
My rankings:
1. Beamer
2. Grobe
3. Cutcliffe
4. Dabo
5. Johnson
6. Everyone else
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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I mean 6. Fisher, 7. Everyone else***
May 5, 2013, 7:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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This has got to be a joke
May 6, 2013, 10:47 AM
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CPJ and wtf-has-he-done-Jimbo ranked higher? Come on now...
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Orange Blooded [3233]
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This pretty much sums up this article...
May 7, 2013, 12:30 AM
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"While Swinney deserves credit for the Tigers’ rise in recent years, having two of college football’s highest-paid coordinators hurts his case to be ranked higher on this list."
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Replies: 81
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