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Replies: 66
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Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 1:54 AM
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Say what you want about Venables but he takes responsibility
Sep 23, 2012, 2:08 AM
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He put in on himself first and foremost adn we know this man can coach. It'll be interesting to see what changes come from this game.
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Associate AD [833]
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Personally, I don't know if he can coach yet or not***
Sep 23, 2012, 2:18 AM
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Legend [6953]
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3 and outs on offense concern me more than the defense at
Sep 23, 2012, 11:17 AM
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this point. I knew we didn't have a ton of talent at key spots on defense. I was really surprise by the number of 3 and outs in the 2nd half
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Head Coach [972]
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Re: 3 and outs on offense concern me more than the defense at
Sep 23, 2012, 1:41 PM
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Well, FSU has 11 great starters on defense and 11 great backups. They are 22-24 players deep on defense. They don't get worn out as the game goes. They are able to stay fresh. Pacing was a problem for our offense in the second half though.
37 points should be enough to win. The defense has to find a way to get better!
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: 3 and outs on offense concern me more than the defense at
Sep 23, 2012, 3:03 PM
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Most of us think it will take new talent to change it, whether bringing in freshman this season or waiting until next. The good news is we may have just played the best team we will see all year, including SC. If we can lose a little composure under pressure but still put up 37 points against FSU, we have hope throughout.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Orange Blooded [2487]
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Associate AD [1039]
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: How do you know this man can coach?
Sep 23, 2012, 11:19 AM
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His D's were in the top 20 5 of his 8 seasons as OkU coDC and DC. Need to check your facts.
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Game Changer [1816]
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CU Medallion [19353]
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Re: How do you know this man can coach?
Sep 23, 2012, 2:23 PM
[ in reply to How do you know this man can coach? ] |
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Same #### mods. There is no way this guy is not a Gamecock fan take out the garbage. Do you not realize letting #### like this go costs you subs?
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Game Changer [1816]
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Banish fans for posting NCAA statistics? That's ridiculous!***
Sep 23, 2012, 4:59 PM
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Orange Blooded [2487]
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Rookie [14]
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Re: Say what you want about Venables but he takes responsibility
Sep 23, 2012, 3:14 AM
[ in reply to Say what you want about Venables but he takes responsibility ] |
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has anyone noticed that our past recruiting has been lousy on the defensive line and the offensive line. look at all the skill positions we over recruit such as running back, qb, wide outs, etc. dabo, you forgot is takes the hogs on the lines to win games, look at alabama, they put 5 or 6 in the first round of the nfl every year. but, the next year here come the big boys again. football is won in the trenches, on defense and offense. skill players can do nothing without blockers. our d line was getting clobbered by the huge fs line, south carolina has the hogs on both sides of the line, i am not a gamecock fan, but 4 in a row to the roosters, yuck.
but true: GAMES ARE WON IN THE TRENCHES
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Say what you want about Venables but he takes responsibility
Sep 23, 2012, 11:30 AM
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I agree 100%. We simply don't, despite Coach Swinney's rosey protestations, have the talent in the trenches. I'm trying to think of one truly outstanding player on our defense, and I can't do it. Blame Venables all you want, the hogs simply aren't there. As for our strength program, forget it. We got mauled in the trenches by visibly stronger, tougher players. And don't imagine this will be our only loss this sesason. It is what it is.
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Commissioner [908]
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I believe the stat you are thinking of is that
Sep 23, 2012, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Say what you want about Venables but he takes responsibility ] |
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LSU, UNC, and Clemson have put the most DL's in the NFL over the past 5 years or something like that. It's not Alabama. It's poor recruiting in this area a few years ago, and it's about how bad your 10th and 11th players in the game are.
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Orange Blooded [2487]
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Rival Killer [3014]
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& in other news, OU lost to K. State in Norman w/o Venables
Sep 23, 2012, 3:40 AM
[ in reply to Say what you want about Venables but he takes responsibility ] |
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Probably was the turnovers, but with OU's defensive recruits, they couldn't stop K State from putting up 24 and 360+ yards at home. Just something I noticed tonight.
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Team Captain [494]
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Re: & in other news, OU lost to K. State in Norman w/o Venables
Sep 23, 2012, 3:57 AM
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Well good for K State
I wish we had only given up 24 points and 360 Total yards
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Rival Killer [3014]
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Re: & in other news, OU lost to K. State in Norman w/o Venables
Sep 23, 2012, 4:36 AM
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We don't have OU's D and we weren't playing at home either.
Yet.
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Game Changer [1816]
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1st Rounder [623]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: I don't "know he can coach". I haven't seen a shred of
Sep 23, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Hard to coach when you don't have the players. Did you happen to notice that our O line got overpowered as well, especially in that embarrasing 2nd half?
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Rookie [10]
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Associate AD [1039]
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Captain obvious***
Sep 23, 2012, 3:02 AM
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Orange Blooded [2258]
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Re: Captain obvious***
Sep 23, 2012, 3:14 AM
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definitely special teams killed a lot. There were what TWO? long returns that gave them the ball in the redzone on offense.. you cant do that and when.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 3:20 AM
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Im not a BV fan, but we got a stop comin out of the half and made some plays early to dominate the game.
Its 100% up to the D to maintain that intensity. I felt like we got pushed around once we mellowed out, which wasnt a schematic problem but a player problem.
I just want a football team thats mentally equipped to play tough and relentless for 4 quarters.
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 9:45 PM
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We don't have any depth and they simply got worn down. The o0-line was playing fine the 1st half.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 3:27 AM
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It would be easy to blame it on coaching but...unfortunately, i think its our ability to execute.
You dont beat a top 5 team if you cant tackle, cant make stops on 3rd down, and cant stop 50+ yard plays on special teams . Not gonna happen.
I feel bad for Tajh because he tried to put this team on hus shoulders without help from anyone bedlsides 23, 80, 2 and 6
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 11:45 AM
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Hard for Tajh to do when he's running for his life due to the collapse of our O line.
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Orange Blooded [3233]
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Unfortunately we will hear this for the rest of the season
Sep 23, 2012, 6:14 AM
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Clearly BV inherited a huge problem.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Unfortunately we will hear this for the rest of the season
Sep 23, 2012, 11:47 AM
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You got that right.
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110%er [5523]
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Breaking: This is "front page" news. Grow up TNET***
Sep 23, 2012, 6:25 AM
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Team Captain [453]
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After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 7:51 AM
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I was having a hard time pinpointing why we didn't come away with the win. I now totally understand why our defensive coordinator gets paid 800K per year. Brilliant analysis like this. I feel comfortable going forward that he'll be able to figure out why we lose any other games where the offense can't score 40 points.
I'm not exaggerating, this may be one of the worst defenses in any of the BCS conferences.
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Fan [76]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 8:30 AM
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I agree!!!!
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 9:55 AM
[ in reply to After watching the game ] |
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We allowed FSU 11 yards per pass AVERAGE with man-to-man coverage!!! Need I say more?
Let's be honest. Under Swinney, even as O-Coach, we have focused heavily on big play QB/run/receive talent. Time to focus on big play D talent.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Lmao it was not man coverage. We were in zone. Our LB played. One the entire night.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 11:43 AM
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We had man-to-man going in a bunch of plays.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 11:46 AM
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Not any that I saw. Our LB were dropping back in zone all night and manual picked us apart with 5 yard passes to wide open guys EVERY PLAY. In man coverage you don't have guys that wide open. Open sure but not open for a 10 yard radius like they were.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 12:00 PM
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It's difficult to see everything on TV sometimes, but what I saw were a number of attempts to hit the blocker and then move towards a man and the ball. Maybe it's this combination zone/man that fails so badly. Sure, they set up for a lot of pure zone, but some changed assignments and there were a lot of throws to man-on-man sets.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Maybe to a guy covered by a corner but not by a LB. LB were in zone. I never saw the LB playing man.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 2:07 PM
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The bottom line after watching the game was it was a kind of Man/zone defense. As the coach said the linebackers were set that way to keep from giving up big running plays. The biggest problem with our defense is the defensive backs. They couldn't cover a dish. #21 was beat so bad last night and twice committed pass interference that was costly in giving State momentum. Our Dbs need to step up and make plays and the front needs to get tough or teams like wake and Ga. Tech are going to pound us.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 3:18 PM
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I saw a lot of man-on-man on the field even if it was a some kind of mixed strategy. Usually in pure zone you expect to see a number of guys on the ball once the play is obvious, don't you? Many of Manuel's passes barely had one man cover.
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All-Conference [401]
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of course we were in zone that explains
Sep 24, 2012, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: After watching the game ] |
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why when other teams throw underneath our guys come into the picture a second or two after the ball is caught and turned upfield. THis means the zone is too soft and is not working. Ever notice when our guys go underneath they dang near get their heads ripped off bu to their credit hold onto the ball. we can't get pressure w our dline and our zone is too soft=a very bad combo. I only remember one sack all yr and that was end of AU game. I am hoping I missed a few.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: After watching the game ] |
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But Coach Swinney likes our "talent" on defense, in addition to thinking that our S&C program is outstanding. As an "expert" pocketing almost 2 Mil a year, aren't you supposed to be able to realistically assess those things???
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: After watching the game
Sep 23, 2012, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to After watching the game ] |
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Where's the beef (i.e.) talent?
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Oculus Spirit [39224]
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BCS? I'd trade for ULM's defense straight up.
Sep 23, 2012, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to After watching the game ] |
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We'd be a top five team.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 10:07 AM
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How some can be mostly angry at Venables when this defense looks just like last year's is a mystery. It's fair to say he hasn't made an impact yet. And it's fair to say he is still working with a pool of players that weren't stand outs in the past or when recruited.
Swinney may be finally allowing some of the energy to shift from big play offensive talent to the defense. I still give Venables the odds he can build something up from the ground. The only two games left where he needs to prove a shift in defensive ability are VT and SC. Of course, we've got some good prospects in the 'committed' column right now....still makes them a 'maybe', but.....
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Clemson Icon [27791]
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'V'='G' Wrong Tech. Vanilla Tech, no. Georgia Tech, maybe.***
Sep 23, 2012, 11:19 AM
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: 'V'='G' Wrong Tech. Vanilla Tech, no. Georgia Tech, maybe.***
Sep 23, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Nah. If Miami can outscore GT so can we. We've proven we cannot hold even mediocre offenses to shallow yards, but we can stall them enough to outscore them. With GT, I think we have a chance to slow them down enough to make quick turn arounds on offense. Expect big down field plays and quick scoring on our part.
There is no reason to believe we can simply stop any opponent from scoring, just slow them down enough. One or two series a quarter to give us the ball back.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: 'V'='G' Wrong Tech. Vanilla Tech, no. Georgia Tech, maybe.***
Sep 23, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Yeah. Probably a best-case scenario.Our defense has the ability to make any offense look great.
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Legend [6773]
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You mean in his first season, with Steele's players,
Sep 23, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Venables hasn't completely turned our defense around?
Some people quickly forget preseason prognostications. Remember what our weakness was predicted to be??? Defense. And it turns out the predictions were right. Give the guy some time, and step away from the ledge.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Re: You mean in his first season, with Steele's players,
Sep 23, 2012, 10:22 AM
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This is the worst depth and skill on defense in as long as I can remember (early Pell days). The focus on offensive recruiting shows. Hopefully we are starting to turn that around with some key recruits possibly coming our way.
You can make them execute better and be more consistent. But you cannot make up for the talent mismatches like we saw last night. I'll dig on Venables on the consistency part, but....
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: You mean in his first season, with Steele's players,
Sep 23, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Ah, a taste of realism.
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CU Guru [1265]
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Start... Stewart, Townsend, Cortez Davis
Sep 23, 2012, 10:13 AM
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BJ GoodSon, Carlos watkins and Dj Reader. Bad bad bad bad bad personal on Defense right now. Tig Willard doesn't deserve to be on the field, Darius Robinson looks like he never played the game before. Thats how you fix it. Get rid of the scrubs and put it in real players.
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Rooter [220]
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Amen.
Sep 23, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Even if we don't start these players, they should at least be getting quality snaps. What have we got to lose?
Throughout the second half our defense was walking around gassed with their hands on their hips. Tired defenses leads to tired fundamentals.
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Walk-On [104]
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Yup
Sep 23, 2012, 11:20 AM
[ in reply to Start... Stewart, Townsend, Cortez Davis ] |
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What are the arguments against Townsend, Steward, & Goodson getting in the games now? That they will be out of position? That they will take bad lines? That they will get blocked out of plays? We already have linebackers who do that so let's let the bigger, faster, stronger guys try it... no?
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Clemson Icon [27791]
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YEP. Thought that exact same thing. +1.***
Sep 23, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Start... Stewart, Townsend, Cortez Davis
Sep 23, 2012, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Start... Stewart, Townsend, Cortez Davis ] |
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Sounds good to me. Can't get much worse. And shift Coach Batson to a nice "administrative" job and bring in some tough-a$$ young Turk, who is willing to kick butt and take names.
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Rookie [13]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 10:44 AM
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With everyone saying we need BIG D talent, I 100% agree with that statement, plus a little bigger O-Line to push the defensive front but we are slowly recruiting this defensive need which I am excited about. Quality players coming through recruiting with the statement Clemson has been making even past this game and the Orange Bowl we are STILL getting high recruits which I think says something for us.
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Game Day Hero [4369]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Just a thought, but if the inexperience of these bigger, better players will net us the same results, why take a chance on them getting injured? BV may be looking ahead to next year, putting in place a great defense. I don't know, I'm just reaching a little.
Fact is, if we want a defense like we had in 1989, we better go out and recruit a Simmons, a Kirkland, and a McGlockton.
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Freshman [1]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 12:05 PM
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I'll say it again. Defense and special teams need fundamental tackle drills. I don't know if our practices include those or not but it sure looks as if they do not. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause so many misses and poor angles. The lack of confidence is deafening.
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Aficionado [175]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Sep 23, 2012, 2:33 PM
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They Thud tackle in practice, they do not take them to the ground...same skill carried to a game!! L. Kirkland gave some advice to dabo about going live during the week to help develope tacking skills & making them tougher......Dabo thinks otherwise.
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Freshman [1]
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Re: Front Page Story: Venables says defense struggled in all phases
Oct 6, 2012, 11:38 AM
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Thanks for the answer. I think Dabo heard us.
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Starter [281]
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Defense
Sep 23, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Has anyone mentioned that FSU is a great football team? I give them a lot of credit. They are better than us!
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CU Medallion [18795]
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Not much else to say. Everyone that watched the game knows
Sep 23, 2012, 5:43 PM
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that!
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