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Replies: 115
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 3:53 PM
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I decided to look up how many transfers each team in the top 10 had in the 2023 recruiting class.
I think our coaching staff is top notch, but it is insane that we are not using the portal. Georgia has the least amount at 4 in their 2023 class. Just imagine if we brought in a proven FG kicker (instead of relying on a freshman), a go to WR on the boundary, and a couple O-Lineman, or even an experienced QB. I would argue that we would be 4-0 and in the playoff hunt. Again, I think we have top notch coaching staff but Clemson will slowly fade away from the Championship picture if we don't change our ways.
1. Georgia - 4
2. Michigan - 9
3. Ohio St. - 9
4. FSU - 12
5. Oklahoma - 17
6. Penn St. - 7
7. Washington - 10
8. Oregon - 15
9. Texas - 5
10. USC - 15
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110%er [5512]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:05 PM
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Almost all of those teams were perennial top-10 teams even since before the portal existed.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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yeah....they maintained their status.....we didn't***
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:21 PM
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All-TigerNet [13541]
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Re: yeah....they maintained their status.....we didn't***
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Oct 11, 2023, 5:07 PM
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Exactly, if the portal doesn't add value, why are the best teams using it so much?
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110%er [6474]
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Re: yeah....they maintained their status.....we didn't***
Oct 11, 2023, 5:26 PM
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No idea. Dabo says nothing but junk in portal. No idea why the 10 top teams want to sign all that subpar junk.
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Freshman [-79]
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Dabo never said that.
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Oct 11, 2023, 7:33 PM
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He has said he will use the portal when we have an absolute need for a starter.
Until he starts nudging guys out of the “culture” program, then this is where we will be.
I’m not with benching starters in favor of a transfer portal guy, and portal guys don’t move to take a chance on depth.
Are you portal dudes saying kick guys out and backfill, or replace starters starting next season? What starters are we going to tell to sit down?
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Letterman [292]
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Re: Dabo never said that.
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Oct 11, 2023, 7:38 PM
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I’ll say it and don’t care because I think it’s the nature of the game now, if your starter didn’t cut it the year before and was a problem, tell him to move on and go to the portal. I know dabo will never do this but I believe it’s exactly what most of those teams are doing. If a position is underperforming it’s time to go to the portal. To say Clemson couldn’t benefit from the portal is just plain ignorance. That goes for dabo too. Kinda like saying this is the fastest team he has ever coached.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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OR this year's team is just as good as the 2016 team.....
Oct 11, 2023, 7:44 PM
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laughable!!!
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Freshman [-79]
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Who said a program cant benefit from using transfers
Oct 11, 2023, 11:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo never said that. ] |
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to replace starters?
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Athletic Dir [881]
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Replace the ones that transfer out with
Oct 11, 2023, 7:41 PM
[ in reply to Dabo never said that. ] |
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Something other than freshman or walk ons.
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Freshman [-79]
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Agreed. Some experience behind transfers would be good.***
Oct 11, 2023, 10:25 PM
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Legend [17626]
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Re: Dabo never said that.
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Oct 11, 2023, 7:45 PM
[ in reply to Dabo never said that. ] |
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He has said he will use the portal when we have an absolute need for a starter.
Until he starts nudging guys out of the “culture” program, then this is where we will be.
I’m not with benching starters in favor of a transfer portal guy, and portal guys don’t move to take a chance on depth.
Are you portal dudes saying kick guys out and backfill, or replace starters starting next season? What starters are we going to tell to sit down?
IMHO Clemson Tigers need (6) on Offense and (1 or 2) on Defense plus a kicker to be a playoff caliber team. That's where we are in 2023.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Dabo never said that.
Oct 12, 2023, 12:04 AM
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Spot on.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Keep up Stanley....
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Oct 11, 2023, 7:51 PM
[ in reply to Dabo never said that. ] |
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you ask
"Are you portal dudes saying kick guys out and backfill, or replace starters starting next season? What starters are we going to tell to sit down?"
How many time do I (or we) need to spell this out to you like you're a 1st grader (I apologize if you really are).
the "portal dudes" are saying take a portion of the 8-10 voided schollies from TRANSFERS OUT of Clemson EVERY YEAR over the last five years and fill the void with an impactful portal player instead of either walk-ons and/or next freshman class.
You are an absolute FOOL if you think that Dabo is not trying to OUTRECRUIT his roster when he recruits high school kids......it'd be the same exact thing with Portal players.
What veteran WR spot was taken by Justyn Ross when he was a freshman??? or DW4 or TL16?????.......how DARE Dabo recruit somebody better than what we already had on the roster...........c'mon Stanley....you're losing every time, but it's fun watching.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Nicely done Pheebo....
Oct 11, 2023, 8:45 PM
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ALWAYS be improving your roster.
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Freshman [-79]
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My name is Tom by the way.
Oct 11, 2023, 10:29 PM
[ in reply to Keep up Stanley.... ] |
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I have no qualms replacing transfers out with transfers in, but the thing again is, transfer kids are looking for starting spots. Not depth. Dabo would have to replace a current starter for a transfer to want to come in.
Why are you such a child by the way?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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you still didn't comprehend.......
Oct 11, 2023, 10:43 PM
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EVERY year Dabo is trying to "OUT RECRUIT" his roster from the HS ranks.........it would/should be NO DIFFERENT to recruit the transfers out's replacement through the portal.
If Dabo OUT RECRUITED Beaux Collins in the portal last year........so be it.......who cares?...we'd be better off......OR we just have another "outside" WR rather than just Beaux.
Just like Dabo out recruited whomever Justyn Ross replaced as a FRESHMAN......and DESHAUN........and TREVOR........AND WILKINS, the list goes on. It's the SAME CONCEPT only you have a more experienced and better analyzed product as it pertains to the college game.........Trust me, our WRs corps is not intimidating enough to sway kids away from those who'd want to come transfer and start here.
it's not that difficult to understand so why can't you?
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Freshman [-79]
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Who cares?
Oct 11, 2023, 11:17 PM
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That goes to show YOU aren’t getting it. Why do you keep posting the same irrelevant things?
Dabo currently cares, and until he changes his ideology and culture to replace starters with transfers then you’re wasting your breath.
If Dabo changes then I will still buy tickets. But until then you don’t need to repeat the same irrelevant comments over and over.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: you still didn't comprehend.......
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Oct 12, 2023, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to you still didn't comprehend....... ] |
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Again, the problem is finding a player in the portal who is better than what you have now....and enough of them to solve the problem.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Keep up Stanley....
Oct 12, 2023, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to Keep up Stanley.... ] |
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The problem is that you can't just get any portal player. He has to be better than what you have now. Otherwise it won't solve the problem.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Dabo never said that.
Oct 11, 2023, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Dabo never said that. ] |
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We lost a starters at WR, Kicker and OL so this argument has no credibility.
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Freshman [-79]
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So by this method a guy who has worked hard in the pecking order
Oct 11, 2023, 10:39 PM
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will be demoted for the transfer?
Look, some of you are confused. I’m not just simply anti-portal. What I’m saying is, the way Dabo CURRENTLY builds the program is via recruiting certain types of kids and developing them in the “culture”.
He would need to literally change that culture. Some guys would lose starting jobs to transfers, that’s the bottom line. That’s a pretty radical change for Dabo.
So yeah, if he changes his approach and some transfers are willing to fight for jobs, then I’ll still be able to sleep at night.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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you're wrong again....about Dabo's "culture kids"........
Oct 11, 2023, 10:48 PM
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you speak of.....he's LOSING 33%-42% of his HIGH SCHOOL RECRUITED "CULTURE KIDS" CLASS EACH YEAR over the last 5 years.............times have changed.
the CULTURE would not have to change.......why do you say that???.........if 3-5 transfers KILL Dabo's "culture" then he didn't have a good culture to begin with, nor is he the "leader of young men" that he's touted to be..........like I said he's already losing 8-10 PER YEAR of his recruiting classes.
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Freshman [-79]
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I havent been wrong about this not even once.
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Oct 11, 2023, 11:23 PM
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If Dabo decides to start replacing starters with transfers then I’ll be fine. We aren’t signing a half dozen transfer kids to be added depth.
You’re “who cares” comment shows just how lost you are. If Dabo changes his philosophy then so be it.
By the way, you have kind of a schizophrenic typing form. Are you okay man?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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who said to add half dozen kids for added depth??
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Oct 12, 2023, 7:00 AM
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where did that come from Stan?
Point still stands. You say Dabo doesn't want to recruit the portal to replace starters, yet he's recruited many HS kids over the years that have replaced starters/vets.........clueless stan yet again.
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Freshman [-79]
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The quantity is also irrelevant.
Oct 12, 2023, 8:49 AM
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The premise is the same.
Replacing starters or guys getting ready to start the next season with new transfer kids is a radical change for Dabo.
Transfers are almost always in the portal for one reason: they want to play. That could mean leaving a P5 program, where for some reason they didn’t want to wait their turn or weren’t good enough. They aren’t moving to be added depth. They have a different mentality than true freshmen and expect to move and play immediately. Guys who have earned their stripes will be pushed aside for a new guy who knows nothing about our culture.
I get it. You want to change the approach. What you just keep missing over and over is that I’ll be just fine if Dabo changes his approach. But until then you’re simply blowing hot air just as you normally do.
Nice job, Mr Irrelevant.
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110%er [7497]
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the 33%-42% is largely graduate transfers
Oct 13, 2023, 9:10 AM
[ in reply to you're wrong again....about Dabo's "culture kids"........ ] |
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which is further elevated by the 5/6 year Covid year BS. I don't expect any graduate transfer, 1) it means you are not good enough for the NFL(yet, if at all) 2)you should be looking to where your best fit is for grad school, not just position on team
Also, the fact we have so many guys earning degrees in a 3-4 year period is a testament to Dabo's culture. He doesn't expect guys to stay once they've earned that but he is certainly not going to turn down an XT or TD if they want to come back as you just aren't going to beat that in the TP or with a HS player for that particular year.
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CU Guru [1746]
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I used to be anti-portal but
Oct 11, 2023, 10:59 PM
[ in reply to Dabo never said that. ] |
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I think it's clear we could have benefited from some guys here and there. Its not a given but getting an experienced guy to step in at a weak spot is never a bad thing.
You tell the starters now.. as Dabo already does... That you are guaranteed nothing but your scholarship, you have to earn the right to get in the field every single week. Guys get benched now, no different if a transfer comes in.
I respect Dabo protecting the culture but it's seems misguided to think his culture is only strong bc of the new recruits he brings in. Its similar to an employer only riding with his new hires straight out of college and never considering hiring an experienced guy from another company.... jus because he was at Competition, Inc doesn't mean he is a bad egg.
Maybe he wasn't quite good enough out of high school, was a punk when he was 19 but grew up or maybe he just chose Michigan but wants to make a change.... its not going to ruin what you've built.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Dabo never said that.
Oct 11, 2023, 11:43 PM
[ in reply to Dabo never said that. ] |
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Dabo did say there were not quality players in the portal. He used a bunch of coach speak, but message was plain.
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110%er [6281]
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All-In [25714]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
4
Oct 11, 2023, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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And so were we. But not now. Wonder if there is any correlation or is it just a coincidence that all of those perennial top teams are still top 10 because of using the portal, while we are not because we don't use the portal?
2 OL
1 FGK
2 WR
1 DB
from the portal and I think we would be top 5 right now.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:50 PM
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Just coincidence.
There aren't enough good players in the portal to fill out all the positions you listed.
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110%er [5712]
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110%er [6474]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 12, 2023, 8:13 AM
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Y'all have not figured the portal out. You go NIL deal with the players you want and put them in the portal.
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Freshman [-79]
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So Dabo should bench or kick out the starters at those positions?
Oct 11, 2023, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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Transfers aren’t moving for depth. We can offer them an opportunity to win a starting job as per the culture, but we’re not promising any transfer kids a starting role and they’ll likely go elsewhere.
Until Dabo begins shedding players like most schools, then this is where we are.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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define "shedding players"....what's the number?
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Oct 11, 2023, 8:01 PM
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he's losing ~33%-42% of a recruiting class EVERY SINGLE YEAR to the portal over the last 5 years.
some are losing more, some less.......regardless the numbers are the numbers and you can't survive replacing those schollies w/ walk-ons and/or new freshman.......but he has...........and here we are.
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Freshman [-79]
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Im not sure why youre so confused?
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Oct 11, 2023, 11:02 PM
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Shedding players needs no definition.
The point I’ve made and you missed is that transfers move to become starters. That would mean demoting a current starter or pushing the next in line down a spot in the depth.
That’s not what Dabo is trying to do in his idea of culture and commitment. He’ll obviously need to make changes in that ideology and current culture.
He has tried to sign a couple transfers previously, but what I think happened was Dabo couldn’t promise anything but a chance. He’ll likely keep that attitude as they continue to review the portal, but it will take a special kind of player.
By the way, we have never lost a game due to not having transfers. We didn’t lose to USuC, UT, Duke, or FSU because of not having a better transfer player at any position, with the sole exception of possibly USuC and the primary cause of the loss.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Dabo IS shedding players at a 33%-42% clip each year.....
Oct 12, 2023, 6:57 AM
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for the last 5 years.
get a clue Stanley
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Freshman [-79]
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No, hes not.
Oct 12, 2023, 9:18 AM
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Stop spewing the same hot air.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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YES HE IS Stan....you don't "do math" so you wouldn't know..
Oct 12, 2023, 5:00 PM
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but I'll play along. I'll even link it to you and you feel free to toggle through the years and numbers.
https://247sports.com/college/transfer-portal/Season/2019-Football/TransferPortal/?institutionkey=24008
Over the last 5 years Dabo's lost an average of 8.4 players EACH YEAR to the portal
Over the last 3 years Dabo's lost an average of 10.3 players EACH YEAR to the portal
assuming a recruiting class is roughly 22-24 players........I'll help you with the math.
8.4 divided by 22 = .38......multiply by 100 (that's how you get to percent)........38%
8.4 divided by 24 = .35......multiply by 100........................................35%
let's do the last 3 years
10.3 divided by 22 = .47.....multiply by 100........................................47%
10.3 divided by 24 = .43......multiply by 100.......................................43%
heck I was even conservative on the original numbers.
now you do it............and show your Stan I just might give partial credit.
why do you keep wasting your time embarrassing yourself??
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Freshman [-79]
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So did Dabo push them out the door (shedding) or did they leave due to PT
Oct 13, 2023, 1:28 AM
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Most every player was not a major player or starter. Dabo didn’t push a guy out for a transfer or HS player. Those guys were given every opportunity to stay and we’d honor their scholarship.
I didn’t say anything about unforced attrition.
As usual you’re confused. A schizo child basically.
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110%er [6905]
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: FSU and Texas havent been sniffing the Top 10 lately before this year***
Oct 12, 2023, 8:45 AM
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Florida St did last year
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Orange Blooded [2156]
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
Oct 12, 2023, 8:19 AM
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:09 PM
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Is this a post that you typed up 3 years ago and just posted it today, I ask only bc of the statement about our coaching staff, Quote (I think our coaching staff is top notch) you had to be thinking with that kind of thinking of our 2020 coaching staff!!!
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:24 PM
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I believe our current coaching staff is top notch.
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110%er [9735]
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Are you really that bored?***
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Are you really that bored?***
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:22 PM
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You apparently dont know how a computer operates that entire post + research took maybe 10 minutes.
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110%er [9735]
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LOL
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Oct 11, 2023, 11:24 PM
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You spent 10 minutes of your life on that ??
LOLOLOL
That’s worse than I thought. I thought you were gonna say like 3-5 minutes at the most.
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110%er [8538]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM
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Easier said than done. Just because you ask a girl to the prom doesn't mean she wants to go with you.
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All-In [40540]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:15 PM
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How does this relate to the op post?
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Legend [16973]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 6:09 PM
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He doesn't know. He's an idiot 🙄
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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Ok, well every other school seems to have it figured out. Considering we have good recruiters on our coaching staff, i dont think that is the problem.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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that's a lazy excuse b/c we've made lazy attempts at it
2
Oct 11, 2023, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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nobody can convince me that every FBS school in the country (sans maybe the military academies) can and has utilized the portal for some starting lineup roster impacts/upgrade, but we CAN'T...........it's because we haven't truly TRIED.............Dabo's not dumb I 100% believe he could be successful at impactful talent acquisition if he put his mind to it for 3-4 players/year...............considering we're losing 8-10 to the portal each year.
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
1
Oct 11, 2023, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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Absolutely not. If these other programs can get transfers we can. Talking about scholarship numbers and not hitting are both excuses for the obvious truth;: Dabo absolutely hates the portal and will watch this program die before changing his stance on it
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All-American [560]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 6:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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Well then you eliminate the illusion of choice through fear and intimidation for starters; escalate from there if necessary—top shelf vodka and decent variety drugs on the night of—
☆Don't forget your Rohypnol☆
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110%er [6139]
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Orange Blooded [2965]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 4:29 PM
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So when does a team start recruiting the other teams players?
Why does a proven player want to leave their team if they are proven?
Are you personally going to pay the portals players?
The portal stinks!!!!
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
4
Oct 11, 2023, 4:44 PM
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I agree that the portal stinks, but it's not going away. Recruit the portal, or be mediocre.
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MVP [523]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:47 PM
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Exactly. Doesn’t matter your opinion. Other teams are catching and passing us in the ACC largely due to the portal. No just us not using it, but them bringing in talent. Proven veterans > talented freshman most of the time now. Can’t develop guys the way Dabo wants anymore, because they will leave for more playing time
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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anti portal people don't see that either.........
1
Oct 11, 2023, 8:36 PM
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right now Dabo is LOSING 33%-42% of his "brought in to develop HS players" PER YEAR (over the last 5 years) TO THE PORTAL.
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110%er [7497]
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1) please provide position, year and season production of
Oct 11, 2023, 4:30 PM
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all those listed 2) please provide the # of scholarships Clemson had available to extend offers 3) please let me know how many of those players expressed a desire to come to Clemson or were most pre-destined somewhere
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: 1) please provide position, year and season production of
3
Oct 11, 2023, 4:37 PM
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#1 you'd have to gather a type of WAR stat from a production standpoint, easiest would be to watch those players and compare them to who was there previous
#2 Clemson has never had Schollies avaiable.........that's why the debate of using the portal exists. Dabo fills the 8-10 player schollies that leave Clemson every year with a mix of walk-on and/or the next recruiting class...........he doesn't "earmark" schollies for portal........there in lies the problem
#3 similar to #2.....no player is going to express desire when it's been pretty obvious (including plastered on ESPN during games) that CLEMSON does NOT portal. If and/or when Dabo does eventually portal for impactful players he will have a stigma to get rid of regarding the perception that he/Clemson holds "against transfers"........right/wrong/indifferent
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All-American [560]
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Re: 1) please provide position, year and season production of
Oct 11, 2023, 6:09 PM
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We have dug ourselves a bit of a hole with #3, it will be used accordingly by the team's competing for the same player, if we ever make a legit effort to sign a portal player-)
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Athletic Dir [884]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Comprehend much??
Oct 11, 2023, 6:36 PM
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Who said there are 8-10 walk ins on schollies?????
I’ll wait for you to realize your mistake.
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Athletic Dir [884]
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Re: Comprehend much??
Oct 11, 2023, 7:10 PM
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You said he fills the 8-10 openings with a mix of scholarships and walk-ons. If he does that every year, the roster should be carrying a couple of walk-ons every year that have been given scholarships. Who are are they?
It's a myth. Right now. The long snapper is the only walk-on that has been given a scholarship. There may be another due to the late dismissal of TJ Dudley. The point is this story that walk-ons and family members eat up any open slots that could be offered to portal players isn't accurate.
My question to everyone is who do you pull a scholarship or offer from in this past class in order to offer it to one of the portal players?
If you pull it from an established player, how do you think that plays out in recruiting? "Don't go to Clemson. They talk family atmosphere but they'll pull a scholarship out from under you." That's how it would get played by every school recruiting against Clemson. All we see is the win/loss record. Building a program is about so much more than that. Do you think lil ol Clemson lands DW4, TL16, WRU or DLU without the program underneath it? No. Clemson was not a blue blood until Dabo built it. There's nothing in Clemson to draw recruits there. No truly famous alums. No shoe industry mogul. No Bear Bryant. No oil money. No Hollywood. No beach. Nothing. Nothing but the foundation Dabo built. End of story. Comprehend that.
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Team Captain [488]
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Re: Comprehend much??
Oct 11, 2023, 7:25 PM
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Not to argue with the entirety of your post but Hunter Helms, the #2 QB on the depth chart was a preferred walk-on now on a scholarship.
Additionally, every year Dabo holds 2 scholarships back, 1 for a walk-on the coaches pick that earned it and 1 for the team to vote for. That's how Hunter Renfrow got his which I think we all agree was well earned.
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Athletic Dir [884]
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Re: Comprehend much??
Oct 11, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Yes. And this is what a conversation is like. Thank you. I missed Helms.
But yes, a walk-on that preforms should be rewarded with a scholarship. My problem is people think all of coaching staff's kids are on athletic scholarships along with Hamp Green, etc. That simply isn't the case.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Wrong again.
Oct 11, 2023, 7:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Comprehend much?? ] |
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I’ll help. “AND/OR”. I never specified the number of each category.
Here are the facts
Clemson has lost an AVERAGE of 8.4 players to the portal over the last five years.
Clemson has lost an AVERAGE of 10.3 players to the portal over the last three years.
Clemson has “brought in” a total of TWO (non impact players that rarely see the field) portal players. Therefore those schollies are filled with some mix of walk-on AND/OR next freshman class (ie forever young) over the last 3-5 years. That’s the reason we’ve slipped on the field and in talent.
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Athletic Dir [884]
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Re: Wrong again.
Oct 11, 2023, 8:00 PM
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So, by that measure, you expect the portal recruiting to be markedly better quality-wise, than what you are saying our HS recruiting to be? Additionally, what transfers that Clemson has lost went on to have much better, post-Clemson careers? Other than Kendrick and Mellusi, who else has the roster missed once they left? Clemson lost a lot of guys that thought they should be starting but went elsewhere to continue reserve roles.
I'm as frustrated with the results as any Clemson fan but the portal being THE answer isn't it. I'm NOT saying Clemson should not take any players from it. It's the idea that so many fans think it's like running down to Walmart and picking up a 6 pack of portal players. It's not that easy.
FSU is an anomaly. They have hit on a high percentage and a large volume of players. It feels worse bc it's so close to home in the ACC. It's also been exaggerated based on what Sanders has done at Colorado. Of the transfers he landed, none are more important than the 2 he originally recruited, Shadeur and Hunter.
I'm getting away from my point. What I don't understand is if people think the HS recruiting has fallen off, why do they think recruiting in the portal would be markedly better? If the top HS recruits aren't choosing Clemson bc of NIL deals they get from other schools, with the nature of portal players looking to capitalize on their star power and success, why do they think Clemson would land them from the portal?
My belief, and I have ZERO proof, is that Dabo goes after a couple of guys he thinks will fit and make a difference. If he doesn't get any interest or they show they are more interested in NIL than the Clemson program, he bows out. We will probably never know if that is true or not.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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ok....one by one
1
Oct 11, 2023, 8:18 PM
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"So, by that measure, you expect the portal recruiting to be markedly better quality-wise, than what you are saying our HS recruiting to be?"
in spots absolutely. Keon Coleman is better than any freshman WR we have right now.
"what transfers that Clemson has lost went on to have much better, post-Clemson careers?"
here's where "y'all" miss......I don't care what any of our transfers out have done, all I care is Clemson capitalize on their voided schollie. What a transfer out of Clemson does after he leaves means NOTHING to me or to Clemson............it's how are you replacing that player, regardless of starter or depth because right now we have HAMP GREENE......a no talent and I believe non-schollie WR playing meaningful minutes and getting the ball when the game is in limbo vs Wake forest.........that shouldn't happen!
"FSU is an anomaly"
they're nowhere near an anomaly. Norvell masterfully utilized to portal AND HS recruiting to build his team back b/c they had fallen so far. Colorado was 1-11 last year, while I don't advocate to FULL PORTAL like he did...........he did do what he had to do and they're markedly better for it. The entire purpose of utilizing the portal is to improve on weak impact positions/players.
and yes I do believe our high school recruiting, mainly on the offensive side of the ball has slipped, so if we could get help on that side of the ball from the portal (which we can, if we tried) then so be it.
don't read what I'm not saying............I don't think Dabo needs to "FULL PORTAL" this program. Clemson still has a good foundation of talent (not that "elite")but decent enough to where he just needs maybe 3-5 IMPACT positions/players (mainly WR)
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Athletic Dir [884]
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Re: ok....one by one
Oct 12, 2023, 10:22 AM
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Then you and I are not too far apart.
Yes, a couple of players to improve the roster at specific spots is warranted. It's a toss up between WR and OL where it would matter most. Other than kicker, no need to beat that dead horse.
My real grievance is the group of fans that believe the Walmart 6 pack of portal players. As Clemson, it's just not that easy. Meaning, the recruiting stance isn't going to change with Dabo at the helm. He's going to pitch the program first and NIL falls way down the line. He's not going to guarantee playing time either. Come here and compete is his pitch.
Hypothetically, if he goes into visit with Coleman, he isn't going to pitch NIL and he's not going to guarantee PT. Coleman was Mich. St's leading WR last year. He went 58-798-7TDs. Currently, he is 20-278-6TDs in 5 games. That's a pace of 48-667-14TDs based on a 12 game season. The TDs are a statistical outlier based on his production. The average for TDs/reception is about 6%. He's at 30%!!! The leader in TDs each year is around 20%. For comparison, both Brown and Collins are set to match Coleman's numbers, minus the TDs: 24-338-2TDs, 24-339-2TDs, 48-676-4TDs, 48-678-4TDs. Although the numbers are close, you can't argue the impact Coleman had against both LSU and Clemson. He scored all 6 of his TDs in those 2 games.
The reason I said FSU is an anomaly is the sheer number and percentage of portal players they have hit. Norvell has been much more successful than most programs. That's the statistical outlier. Or so I thought until I looked at Michigan's 2023 roster and transfers.
If you are a Clemson fan that doesn't believe the portal is helpful. You might want to look away from the rest of this post.
Michigan brought in 9 players from the portal on this year's roster. The roster needs they had matched up pretty well with Clemson, kicker, OL, Edge. The glaring place they didn't matchup was WR.
K-Turner 29/30 XPs, 5/7 FGs
IOL-Nugent Starter
OT-Hinton Starter
IOL-Henderson 2 Starts
EDGE-Stewart 7-9-16-3Sacks
LB-Hausman 7-14-21-0Sacks
CB-Wallace 3-4-7-0INTs
TE-Barner 8-75-0TDS
QB-Tuttle 5/6-45, 3-32-0TDs
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Freshman [-79]
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No . You said who cares about the player.
Oct 13, 2023, 1:34 AM
[ in reply to Wrong again. ] |
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You speak with forked tongue.
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110%er [7497]
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there aren't - another myth
Oct 13, 2023, 8:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: 1) please provide position, year and season production of ] |
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we have 3-4 and 2 of those got to keep them this year only because guys left this summer after the portal closed(for example, Williams and Dudley(who was booted). The LS is always going to get one.
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All-TigerNet [10480]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Would need the data on how much in PTP funds were offered and how many of these were a result of tampering (most I'm assuming) in order draw any conclusions on this.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
2
Oct 11, 2023, 4:43 PM
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So let me get this straight.....
We have a coaching staff that can recruit top 10 nationally out of high school year after year, but
We can't recruit out of the portal because other teams are tampering and we are not. That is a joke.
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All-TigerNet [10480]
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So you believe we should tamper?***
Oct 11, 2023, 4:46 PM
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All-In [25714]
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Re: So you believe we should tamper?***
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Oct 11, 2023, 4:55 PM
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Apparently all the other teams are not tampering because no one has been charged by the NCAA with tampering.
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All-TigerNet [13541]
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Re: So you believe we should tamper?***
Oct 11, 2023, 5:13 PM
[ in reply to So you believe we should tamper?*** ] |
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I think what he is saying is we have so much to offer, and Dabo is so good at recruiting when he wants to be, that we wouldn't need to tamper to get some top guys that we really want.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: So you believe we should tamper?***
Oct 11, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Yes, because we compete with those same teams nationally out of high school.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Do you think we recruited on the "up&up" prior to NIL?
Oct 11, 2023, 8:24 PM
[ in reply to So you believe we should tamper?*** ] |
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Do you really think we're "holier than thou"?
because we weren't........sorry to break that to you.
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All-TigerNet [10480]
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No. I also believe we were slapped with probation several
Oct 11, 2023, 8:56 PM
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times in the 80s for providing impermissible benefits to players. What's your point?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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your question seemed to insinuate to me......
Oct 11, 2023, 9:02 PM
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that we were "above tampering"............was just making sure we're all on the same page from understanding that Clemson "does it" no different than anybody else does when it comes to recruiting...........wouldn't think it'd stop with portal if/when Dabo decided to really use it.
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All-In [48365]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 4:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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If you are dedicated to it, there are players who require no tampering. Some are non p5, and some are proven d2 and d3 players. Top teams are using the portal for depth and experience. You can certainly recruit a player that will eventually most likely be better than the portal player.
Stellato is a good example. Highly rated, starting to come into his own. The first year he was here, he didn't get PT because of injury, it's because he was coming from a different system and couldn't grasp the playbook fast enough. Therefore, you bring in a Stellato and perhaps a one or 2 year portal player.
Perhaps this isn't the best analogy but I'm using it only for illustration purposes on how a team can get good use from the portal. It's insurance imo.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 4:49 PM
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Not really. Dabo has tried to get some players from the portal, and they went elsewhere. (One was a lineman who I believe went to Michigan.)
Most of the players in the portal aren't really better than what we have now. Unless we can get 2 or 3 receivers as good as Sammy Watkins, or a quarterback as good as Trevor Lawrence, it wouldn't solve our problems.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 5:05 PM
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One isn't enough. We need 2 or 3, and they have to be superstar level. Otherwise, they won't solve the problem.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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LOLOLOLOLOL.you think.
1
Oct 11, 2023, 6:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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We have WRs that are a notch below Sammy Watkins??
You insinuate as much when you say we must get “as good as” Sammy Watkins to make a difference.
You’re clueless.
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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Get busy recruiting the portal
1
Oct 11, 2023, 4:51 PM
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Or get busy dying
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 5:12 PM
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Now you have to figure out the percentage of those portal players that are changing the outcome of the game. That will give us more perspective.
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All-TigerNet [13541]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 5:15 PM
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Our 2 losses were certainly impacted...
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Actually it wont. Thats a flawed perspective.
Oct 11, 2023, 6:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal ] |
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If the team upgraded the talent/position from the previous player/position………mission accomplished.
It’s not rocket science.
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: Actually it wont. Thats a flawed perspective.
Oct 11, 2023, 9:11 PM
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Yeah, but if a portal player is barely contributing, or injured, you can’t correlate their existence on a certain team as a reason for the teams’ success.
Then you need to consider the other teams they are playing and the amount of portal players that team has.
It’s not like only the blue bloods have transfers. So do the coots, so does Deion and many many more.
I contend that Georgia and Alabama would have the same record without using the portal. As would other teams on that list.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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The coots are a good example..
Oct 11, 2023, 9:39 PM
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Where would they be without spencer rattler??
Rattler can’t take them from suck to elite on his own but he can and has taken them from suck to decent/mediocre/insert you better than suck word here.
Point is rattler is better than any QB they have on campus. The upgraded there and it shows. They also need help in many other places but their portal qb doing the best with what he’s got around him.
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: The coots are a good example..
Oct 11, 2023, 10:24 PM
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First, how is it possible to answer that question about rattler? Maybe instead of him they could have gotten a different QB via recruiting.
Secondly, rattler is not the only transfer the coots have obtained. So if one portal player for the coots makes them decent why don’t the others make them elite when added to the mix? That portal qb has other portal players around him.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: The coots are a good example..
1
Oct 11, 2023, 10:33 PM
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they couldn't or didn't obtain a QB of Rattler's caliber, plus in their case why depend on a freshman QB when you can get a really good experienced one...............Last year their transfers made them a different team (for the better). They DO NOT beat us nor Tennessee last year without them on the field.........I do know that.
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CU Guru [1579]
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Re: The coots are a good example..
Oct 11, 2023, 10:58 PM
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You do realize they lost to some pretty awful teams last year, right?
During the season last year, rattler had more picks than td’s.
Clemson did not lose to the gamecocks last year because of the lack of portal players.
We have to agree on that, right? If not, which player from the portal would have increased our chances of defeating them last year?
And BTW we were talking about the top teams on college football using the portal to make their team better not the coots. As I said earlier, I do not believe Georgia or Alabama or other perennial powerhouses’s record is any better because of the portal.
Message was edited by: klimpzun®
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Recruit [98]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
1
Oct 11, 2023, 5:36 PM
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If you think Tyler Grisham, Spiller, Austin, et al are a great staff then you know very little about football
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Orange Blooded [2000]
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Just numbers until
Oct 11, 2023, 5:58 PM
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You add context. Go through the sub 500 teams and see how many transfers they have
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
1
Oct 11, 2023, 6:02 PM
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Now what is the average cost of each of those recruits. I.E. how much NIL cash did it take to land them?
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110%er [5484]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 6:02 PM
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Those numbers are a little surprising. Thought they would have been less
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CU Guru [1349]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Agree with all of this, except Spiller, Austin, and Grisham are not top notch. The recruiting and performance by their groups say so. These 3 guys should be at non power 5 schools getting experience. Dabo could've helped them get jobs and develop. This young staff is exposing Dabo's weakness. Which is tbe X&O's of the game. He is a motivator and CEO. Can't hold Saban, Kirby, or Venables jock when it comes to truly coaching tbe game. Again not an opinion just look at his record without his great staff of experience. Caldwell , Venables, Scott all gone now we are circling the drain from elite to 8-4 !
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CU Guru [1932]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 7:51 PM
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The gloves are on.
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Walk-On [102]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 8:04 PM
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Yep
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All-TigerNet [10949]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 8:10 PM
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I didn't read all these amd hope I dont repeat what someone else said, but look at the alumni and rich donors for NIL $s at those schools. From oil money to movie stars, they pluck the best out of the transfer portal with big NIL deals. When schools like Clemson offer and are rejected, we all know the decision was made before the player's name showed up in the portal.
Schools like Clemson can't compete with the NIL money.
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Legend [15749]
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Oh, can you do a study on the bottom 60 teams and how many transfers they have
Oct 11, 2023, 8:44 PM
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and then explain how their use of the portal lead to them sucking? Because logic.
I’d also be curious as to how many transfers left each program. And of course, how many transfers are contributing.
On a personal level, I’ll let the coaches coach how they want to coach, but I’d be lying if I said that it made me roll my eyes during the FSU and FAU games…every time a player made a play, the broadcasters would tell us where they played the year before. Kind of crazy.
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Varsity [231]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
2
Oct 11, 2023, 10:32 PM
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UGA was the wrong team to mention there.
Yes they took in 4 Transfers but:
1 entered the portal and is no longer on the team
2 are WRs who have 1 TD between them and less yards and receptions than Brock Bowers combined.
The last one is a RB who hasn't even played in a game this year.
Washington is another deceitful one....
They've had 41 players transfer out over the past 2 years and only 19 players transfer in.
Of those 19 players....
9 from 2022 ... 2 transferred again, 5 eligibility expired and only 2 [Penix Jr and Will Nixon] are currently on the team.
10 players for 2023... only 2 start and 2 are backups. The rest are 3rd team players or haven't played at all.
So that's 4 of 19 players
If you look at most transfers...about 20% of them are actually contributing meaningful snaps and of them only about 5% are actually impact players. Actually go to the rosters of these teams and see what players are really contributing.
Message was edited by: Lurking Tiger803®
Message was edited by: Lurking Tiger803®
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Recruit [82]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 11, 2023, 11:36 PM
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This logic really only proves that the top 10 teams have transfers on the team. You have not shown that teams not in the top 10 did not have transfers. Further, I would guess that in accordance to how you gathered and structured your argument, if you did pulled data on the transfers present in every FBS school, you’ll find that nearly all of them have similar numbers of transfers.
I’m not saying your hypothesis is wrong. It’s just your argument to prove your hypothesis is biased as it is currently written.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 12, 2023, 12:12 AM
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Thanks for those numbers.
It is unquestionable that more aggressive pursuit of transfers would improve our roster in the short and long term.
If we want to compete consistently at a playoff level it will have to happen.
If Dabo doesn’t bring a single starter again next year, we will be lucky to end the season with 3 losses.
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Oculus Spirit [93680]
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The Transfer Portal is akin to a divorcee.
Oct 12, 2023, 9:43 AM
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They didn't get along with their last spouse but you think you're special enough to straighten them out. Folks get that 'trade up,' mentality and end up spending more time in court than in bed. Maybe they aren't the problem.
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All-In [31315]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
1
Oct 13, 2023, 9:18 AM
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Dabo decides to develop players if you don’t like that philosophy find someone else to pull for. Very simple.
He is not going to kick kids out because they ended up a bust and I believe that’s the way the college football model should be conducted. Recruit better and it would not be mentioned.
None of those teams listed were bad teams or do not recruit at a high level, and do most people realize these guys are paid for.
Not sure why we keep discussing something that will not change until the fans ##### enough to run Dabo off.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: AP Top 10 Poll and the Transfer Portal
Oct 13, 2023, 9:34 AM
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I think Coach Swinney should be the guy who decides how the program is run. That’s why I pay him so much!!! Actually he has become pretty good for ole Clemson. Best in the sixty plus years that I have actually attended games! Go Tigers. Beat every #### team!
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