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Orange Blooded [2031]
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Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 9:47 PM
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There’s been a lot of discussion about our current wide receivers not consistently pulling in 50-50 balls.
Last night’s game and all of last year, (and years past for that matter) it seems like the vast majority of times our wide receivers were not open, they were tightly covered, resulting in a 50-50 ball.
When I watch other top programs, their wide receivers often have a step or two on their defender when they catch the ball. Or the ball is thrown to where only the wide receiver can catch it.
Is this lack of getting receivers open the fault of the receivers, or a fault of poor play design?
I’m assuming it’s a little of both, but really have no idea. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts.
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Recruit [82]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 9:52 PM
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They didnt have a problem getting open when Cade was in
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CU Guru [1655]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 9:55 PM
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not the same defensive players...
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CU Medallion [67853]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 10:25 PM
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you're letting facts ruin his story
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Team Captain [465]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 5:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receivers rarely open… ] |
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not the same defensive players...
Not the same offensive guys on our side either. Let's see how coaches and players work out these problems in the next couple of weeks.
Having significantly less scrimmages in fall camps also not a good College Football decision! Needs to go back to what it was.
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Team Captain [465]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 5:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receivers rarely open… ] |
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not the same defensive players...
Not the same offensive guys on our side either. Let's see how coaches and players work out these problems in the next couple of weeks.
Having significantly less scrimmages in fall camps also not a good College Football decision! Needs to go back to what it was.
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Legend [18851]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receivers rarely open… ] |
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As much as that is a true statement let's examine that with logic. Yes there were some of their starters out. All of our starters were out. I mean Hampton Earle was at wide receiver. He is the one who did not pull in the pass. I think those GT defenders that came in and do not usually play wanted to shine and make a big play. It was their time. Our WRS were our third string and walk ons. The argument that we were playing some of their backups is negated because we were playing farther down in our depth chart as well.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receivers rarely open… ] |
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That's not true. Watch this condensed game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5eqlTfiZkE
At 23:38, you'll see Cade's first pass down the field. It was being covered by #7 and #17. #7 is Zamari Walton, their starting cornerback on that side. #17 is Demetrius Knight. He's technically the #2 WLB on their depth chart, but he split starting responsibilities with Charlie Thomas on Monday. You'll also see #4 made the tackle. That's Derrick Allen, their starting safety (I don't think GT does free and strong safeties). The next play (23:54), you'll see numbers 2 and 0. That's Eyinde Eley (their starting MLB) and Myles Sims (their other starting corner).
You can say they were tired. But Cade was completing passes to our third string receivers against their starters.
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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All-TigerNet [10899]
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Not saying this was always the case, but late throws make
Sep 6, 2022, 9:55 PM
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coverage look better than it actually is.
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: Not saying this was always the case, but late throws make
Sep 7, 2022, 9:22 AM
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This is one of the offenses biggest problems. DJ doesn't trust himself. He doesn't throw with timing or rhythm. He throws to players not to spots. QBs often have to throw their WRs open. He seems incapable of this. Even the long completion to Beaux on the corner route was a little late. He also takes sacks even when he has open receivers and/or huge lanes to run escape through
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Not saying this was always the case, but late throws make
Sep 7, 2022, 3:15 PM
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DJ needs to play faster and make throws with conviction, he does neither.
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110%er [7166]
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i agree with this. We don't throw on time.
Sep 7, 2022, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to Not saying this was always the case, but late throws make ] |
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The ball has to get out when the receiver is making the break. Not after. Cade got the ball out on time on just about every throw. Which is why it looked/seemed easier for him. I don't know if thats a coaching thing or a instinct thing but its why our offense seems clunky and slow for the first team compared to the 2nd team.
And keep in mind Cade was throwing to the 2nd and 3rd team receivers so yes GT had their 2nd and team in but so did Clemson. The biggest throw/catch of the series and IMO of the night was to a Swinney not a Ngata.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Not saying this was always the case, but late throws make
Sep 7, 2022, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Not saying this was always the case, but late throws make ] |
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A good QB creates open receivers.
Peyton Manning used to talk about that often. He said you have to know who to throw against and know who not to throw against. He said Never throw against Deion Sanders even if the receiver has 4 steps. Some you can throw against even when you have no steps. You have to know your match ups.
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110%er [7166]
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the thing I like about Cade is he apparently already has
Sep 7, 2022, 2:39 PM
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that skill in him, from the small portion of play that he has shown. Urgency, accuracy, and ability. Now he just needs the playbook experience, gametime experience, and then physical maturation. The last thing he needs is to get crushed by a DLineman and tear up his shoulder like Willy Korn did in his first real game action.
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Legend [18790]
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Coaching + WR misevaluation + WR talent
Sep 6, 2022, 10:05 PM
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All, at the end of they day, falls on coaching.
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110%er [6138]
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- transfer portal
Sep 6, 2022, 10:52 PM
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There’s hay to be made with WRs in the portal. We’re glaringly down at WR. WRs can come in and contribute immediately. Even if CK takes over, this offense will be retarded due to the lack of overall talent at WR. It’s a shame.
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Legend [18790]
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Maybe, Alabama is getting great production from offensive
Sep 6, 2022, 11:03 PM
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portal transfers.
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All-TigerNet [10932]
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Re: - transfer portal
Sep 7, 2022, 1:43 PM
[ in reply to - transfer portal ] |
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With the current uncertainty at QB, why would a WR decide to transfer to Clemson?
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110%er [8538]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 10:07 PM
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Just like the key words in real estate are location, location, location, the key words in football are recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. I know we had injuries last year but despite that I never saw one of receivers win with speed and did not see it last night either.
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Legend [18289]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 10:29 PM
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I’m constantly seeing this but if you watch the game they are open but how long are they supposed to stay open for??? Also if the QB/WR have chemistry and work hard enough together a good QB will throw his receivers open. Not trying to knock anyone just saying when they are open the ball is never there or by the time it is sent the DB is closing.
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All-TigerNet [11200]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 10:57 PM
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There were some receivers open and even not covered. They were not located. As it stands, a quality team will shut down this offense and wear down the defense.
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Asst Coach [733]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 6, 2022, 11:59 PM
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Several times. In particular when Briningstool was doing jumping jacks and screaming “I’m open!!” Inside the 10 yd line and DJ never saw him
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 1:23 PM
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Several times? Can you point out another time in the GT game where this happened? Quarterbacks do sometimes miss open receivers. That's something you'll even see happen to greats like Tom Brady every so often. They can't always see every single part of the field at all times. I know that's something you can't make a habit out of, but I don't recall a specific time in the GT game other than the one you mentioned.
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All-TigerNet [10932]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 8:34 AM
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Two things will help getting the WRs open:
One or 2 passes in the middle will not loosen up the outside. The middle needs to be used early to slow the safety from covering over the top.
It also helps when the OL wins the battle against the DL so the LB can't be used for underneath coverage. A RB will meet him 8 to 10 yards down field with a big gain or 1st down.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 8:54 AM
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I have thought this the last couple years. I see almost all of our completions and targets highly contested. I wasn’t in Atlanta but on TV it looked the same. Frustrating since the GT receivers, facing a vastly superior defense, had space to catch the ball often.
But it is hard to tell on tv and if DJ is slow finding the open routes that would account for it. I noticed a 3rd down play first half where pressure got to DJ as it looked like at least a couple guys were standing open waiting for the ball. So that’s almost certainly the QB not getting it out on rhythm.
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All-TigerNet [12249]
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It's not all "Wide receivers rarely open"...
Sep 7, 2022, 9:00 AM
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EJ Manuel did a good segment on The Huddle where he showed numerous clips from last year where DJ was not throwing the ball on time while receivers were open. EJ's comment was that DJ was late in his decision cycle, holding on to the ball too long and not getting the ball out on time while the receiver was open. These late decisions resulted in covered receivers, bad passes, and interceptions.
I'm not saying our WR's can't do better but it's not always as simple as it looks on TV when the camera shifts to the WR after the QB has released the ball. Typically there are very short windows when a receiver is open before a DB adjusts to the route - it is incumbent on the QB to anticipate and get the ball to the receiver during that short window - something DW4 and TL16 were very good at. DJ had a horrible time with it last year but looked better Monday night.
Having said all that - our receiver's have got to do a better job of catching the ball once it gets to them. Cut out the drops when the ball hits their hands and greatly improve our 50/50 completion rate...
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Walk-On [111]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 9:12 AM
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At this level you have to throw guys open. DJ is indecisive and causes coverage to catch up. This is why I wanted to see Cade earlier in the game. It would answer questions to OL play, WR play, and play calling. The offense looks handcuffed with DJ allowing them to stack the box. This prevents running the ball and harder on the OL
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Commissioner [928]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 9:12 AM
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It starts with play design. There are a few programs who do it better than anyone else, Alabama, OSU and Ole Miss. They run route combinations specifically designed for one specific receiver to be the primary target. Picks, rubs, drags, crossing, stack, route trees and others to get DB's moving in a certain direction for one prevailing WR to run free. After that they have a check down receiver to go to. My guess is that there are only 3 receivers on any given play that barring a breakdown are the intended targets.
Recruiting. Speed..., we need receivers with speed. Speed stresses the defense and creates mismatches. Throwing windows open faster and stay open longer.
The ball has to get out on time and not a 1/10th of a second too late. The designed windows will close fast as the defense reacts.
Protection: the better the protection from the OL the more receivers you can get up field and more players have to be covered.
I saw very little improvement in any of these areas on Monday night. We still have lots of work to do.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 2:02 PM
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Got a have a QB who can hit the streak route. When the D knows the route will be short, they can stay with it.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: Wide receivers rarely open…
Sep 7, 2022, 3:04 PM
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I think we are all forgetting on several of our pass plays, receivers WERE wide open. They were not seen by the QB, at least once due to pressure from the pass rush.
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