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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:13 PM
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I'm definitely going to be in the minority, I don't think he deserves to fired as OC/playcaller. I think he's called games based on what his personnel can execute. He has had flashes of creativity that wanes after penalties and turnovers, you're not gonna stay ultra aggressive when your up 2+ scores, the defense is playing well, and you have an offense prone to turning the ball over. Execution has been an issue that's not entirely on the coaches. Ball security has been bad and DJ holding the ball too long has been bad that's on players, not a scheme issue.
I will say though I'd like to see Clemson go out and get a QB a different coach. I don't like how little confidence DJ has with his eyes or how his footwork falls apart later in the game. A good QB coach may have solved alot of these issues.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:18 PM
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I second that. I think DJ and Cade need a true QB mechanics/ situational awareness coach.
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Asst Coach [737]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:21 PM
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I don’t disagree with you at all. You call the plays you feel your players can execute. Especially your QB. Get a true duel threat QB behind center and I think Streeter will be fine.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:37 PM
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I really think DJ should be a learning lesson. If you are not going to adapt your offense, you have to recruit a true dual threat QB for this offense regardless of Star rating. If DW or Trevor were running in some of the space he had, they would still be running.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:51 PM
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Recruiting scheme fits is extremely important 100% agree with you. DJs arm talent was off the charts so I guess Dabo figured they could make it work.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:24 PM
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I don’t think unpopular is the word to use. I think your points are very valid. He has done ok and at the end of the day I would pull for him and TE as Clemson guys.
But this offensive scheme is not very good and lacks creativity and aggression. Lots of perimeter stuff and gets overly conservative at times. And running a slow freaking QB so much can tend to be a head scratcher.
This all being said DJ definitely has is a major part of the stagnation of the offense.
PS when is the last time you saw a backshoulder throw. DW was great at it.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:30 PM
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The back shoulder throw is actually one of the only balls I feel DJ throws accurately downfield.
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110%er [7178]
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Re: Bubble screen in FB is what 'waste pitch' is to Baseball
Nov 20, 2022, 10:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter ] |
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Has anyone noticed the widespread popularity of the bubble screen type pass in college FB as a whole?
Nearly everyone does it, and nearly everyone uses it quite a bit.
Furthermore, only occasionally does the bubble screen result in a big play for anyone (not just for us).
Why do we (and other teams) use it so much?
(*) To get the defense spread out and defend it. If not defended properly, the bubble screen becomes a really big play. But since college defenses actively defend the bubble screen (which requires the D to spread out), then the 'spread out' defense is vulnerable to inside routes.
The bubble screen is akin to the 'waste pitch' in baseball. The 'waste pitch' is used to set up the hitter to have less focus on the 'out pitch.'
College FB is now a chess game, not a checkers game.
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Orange Blooded [3299]
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Re: Bubble screen in FB is what 'waste pitch' is to Baseball
Nov 21, 2022, 6:21 AM
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I watch some of last night's replay of the Coots game and they diagramed out one of their plays. There were 5 receivers running routes at least 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. I don't know if we have done that. I see more plays with 4 WR no more than 5 yards past the line, with 3 blocking for the screen.
Have we ever shown screen and had the up WR slip off the block and go?
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All-TigerNet [11135]
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Re: Bubble screen in FB is what 'waste pitch' is to Baseball
Nov 21, 2022, 7:14 AM
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I watch some of last night's replay of the Coots game and they diagramed out one of their plays. There were 5 receivers running routes at least 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. I don't know if we have done that. I see more plays with 4 WR no more than 5 yards past the line, with 3 blocking for the screen.
Have we ever shown screen and had the up WR slip off the block and go?
Yes, against Louisville. Early in the game with the TE, Allen, coming off his block and going down the sideline for about a 20 yard completion. Haven't seen it since.
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CU Guru [1577]
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Thank you!
Nov 21, 2022, 12:31 PM
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I nearly threw my beer on that play as I’ve been waiting for it all season. There have been times the defenders make 0 effort at coverage and are on a rope to the screen reciever. A strong pump fake and that staggered route would start keeping defenses honest there.
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Hall of Famer [22954]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter ] |
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The last backshoulder throw I saw was against Louisville and the receiver ran a go route…..
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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offensive scheme lacks........
Nov 21, 2022, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter ] |
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creativity (coaches), killer instinct (coaches/players), & talent (coaches/players)
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Hall of Famer [22954]
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Re: offensive scheme lacks........
Nov 21, 2022, 9:59 AM
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People who are complaining about play calling are just not seeing what we have been doing recently. Even the ESPN announcers Saturday were talking about how our play calling has been much more innovative this year. We had a really nice pass to Pace coming across the middle and several good plays to TEs and slot receivers going straight down the field Saturday. The TDs to Price and Allen were great play calls that were executed nearly perfectly. The sideline pass to Mafah in the first quarter was a perfect throw to the third or forth read. About once a game we have a play where DJ fakes the handoff, takes 2-3 steps with his head down like he is going to run and then throws a little jump pass, usually over the middle but Saturday it went to a receiver (Randall I think) on the sideline. Y’all really need to stop with the tired old narrative and watch the games.
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All-In [44075]
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So DJ wasn’t comfortable throwing slants until yesterday?
Nov 20, 2022, 9:25 PM
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I find that hard to believe. He looked pretty good doing it against Miami.
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: So DJ wasn’t comfortable throwing slants until yesterday?
Nov 20, 2022, 9:36 PM
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DJ still can't throw over the middle. I don't know if it's his vision or a mental Block or what. But he floats the ball and is inaccurate. And opposing Defensive coordinators no it. And he runs just fine once he gets going. But he can't run to the outside fast enough. Which would help out the offensive play calling too.
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110%er [7178]
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Re: So DJ wasn’t comfortable throwing slants until yesterday?
Nov 20, 2022, 10:52 PM
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We are much more frequent with over-the-middle routes in the past several games.
We've had OK success with them, also.
The misses are as often as not due to a combination of pass deflections or our WR failing to catch the ball (as our #13 failed spectacularly to do on a big play over the middle route).
Antonio Williams and our TEs catch most of the over the middle passes, Ngata has caught a few in recent weeks.
Much different now vs. early season and vs. pretty much all of 2021.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Oculus Spirit [94230]
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DJ was on and off, more off than on when trying to hit...
Nov 20, 2022, 9:55 PM
[ in reply to So DJ wasn’t comfortable throwing slants until yesterday? ] |
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a receiver moving across the field. Against the Canes he hit several in stride, a couple had to slow down a bit or reach but he completed several. Previously he missed ~80% of the time with somewhere around 30% of them being tipped up and subjects which excited the safety over the top and lit the light of interception in their eyes. Many of his interceptions came from missing receivers in running across the field.
That is why crossing routes were almost ignored in the play calling. They coaches were just working with what they had to work with.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Orange Blooded [2003]
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There were some really good calls yesterday***
Nov 20, 2022, 9:39 PM
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All-TigerNet [11221]
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We still lack that alpha dog receiver
Nov 20, 2022, 9:41 PM
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Our receivers don’t scare anyone.
Until we get one that wins 50/50 balls the offense will remain vanilla.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: We still lack that alpha dog receiver
Nov 20, 2022, 9:47 PM
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I agree with wanting an alpha wr but I disagree with ppl who seem to think your offense should revolve around 50/50 balls. I've always hated that, would rather see guys schemed open or hit while moving. Not a fan of relying on acrobatics of a wr as a "scheme".
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All-In [48676]
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Re: We still lack that alpha dog receiver
Nov 20, 2022, 10:58 PM
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Actually if you review the tape on games this year and last year, dj opted for the 50 50 boundary ball even when there were other receivers that were indeed wide open... or they could have been thrown open. Seems he locks in on a play pre snap on what the D gives him. If they do indeed stick with what he saw, he has pretty good outcome. But when a team like ND gives him exotic packages post snap, he tends to force set play, or freezes up. That's when a lot of sacks occur.
On that note, for the most part, the last two games, the oline has done real well. Did we ever get the Louisville grades on the oline? This week they have to grade well.
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Orange Blooded [3299]
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Re: We still lack that alpha dog receiver
Nov 21, 2022, 6:25 AM
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When Trevor or Deshaun threw 50/50 balls it was more like 90/10 balls!
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All-In [48676]
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Re: We still lack that alpha dog receiver
Nov 21, 2022, 8:57 AM
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Point taken.
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Hall of Famer [22954]
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Re: We still lack that alpha dog receiver
Nov 21, 2022, 9:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: We still lack that alpha dog receiver ] |
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They were throwing to Mike Willams and Tee Higgins who are also making those 90/10 balls for QBs in the NFL.
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All-American [573]
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110%er [6108]
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Did Randall Break his hand before or after outstanding catch
Nov 21, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to We still lack that alpha dog receiver ] |
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he made. Because that catch against Miami was first "alpha dog" type catch Ive seen all year out of a WR.
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Orange Blooded [2156]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:42 PM
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Outside of his 2-3 game fascination with the bubble screen I agree with you. He has breathed new life into this offense this year.
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Orange Blooded [4709]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:43 PM
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I don’t disagree but he does make the scratch my head sometimes. Example… 2nd and 3. QB run. Stuffed… 3rd and 3. Another QB run. These are designed runs not RPOs mind you. There should never be a time that a back like Mafah cannot get 3 yards in 2 plays.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 9:49 PM
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Yea thats a good point. Mafah and Shipley need more touches in those situations. Especially Mafah
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Oculus Spirit [94230]
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I think it's shameful to discuss firing one of Dabo's...
Nov 20, 2022, 9:48 PM
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selections for coach. He hired, trained and promoted these guys at the exactly correct time according to him. Even the suggestion that one of these coaches should be fired is an insult pointed directly at Dabo.
Shame on you and anyone else talking about replacing any of them.
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110%er [5157]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 10:00 PM
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Let's look at the other side with some facts.
How many schools have better offenses with less talent?
If you took Clemson's recruiting rankings and calculated it into offense performance it wouldn't be pretty. I'm not sure what the problem is but something isn't right.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 10:02 PM
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Let's compare the Kelly Bryant year to this year for DJ for some perspective on that.
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110%er [5157]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 10:16 PM
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Good point. Just watching other teams play with recruiting classes ranked around 50th moving the ball up and down the field with ease tells me the coaches aren't creating mismatches.
The Clemson offensive coaches have been blessed with great defenses for many years. They haven't had to score as many points as other teams. Watching Baylor yesterday moving with ease up and down the field. Yes they lost but how great they would be with Clemson's defense. I trust Dabo and whatever he does I support.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 8:58 AM
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I get what you're saying, but the Baylor team you're talking about also scored just 3 points in a loss to KState and is averaging less points per game than Clemson. You also have to consider that Baylor isn't pretty much the biggest game on the schedule of every team the play like Clemson is. I'm not saying there are no issues with the Clemson offense, but it's not fair to compare the situation to other teams because the situations simply aren't the same.
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Orange Blooded [2149]
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Uhh- 10-1. Do you understand how hard that is to accomplish?
Nov 20, 2022, 11:47 PM
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Yes it's an amazing feat downplayed bc of conference affiliation. Dabo has been the best thing to happen to Clemson football
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Legend [16944]
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Re: Uhh- 10-1. Do you understand how hard that is to accomplish?
Nov 21, 2022, 6:28 AM
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All conferences move up and down in quality. When you’re setting all time historical records it should not be downplayed because of conference affiliation. A Clemson fan certainly shouldn’t echoing such sentiments.
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Uhh- 10-1. Do you understand how hard that is to accomplish?
Nov 21, 2022, 3:18 PM
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I'm not downplaying the feat, I'm saying the media and other fan bases downplay bc they don't get how hard it is to win. They think Clemson plays no one at all and 41 games at home were all basically against FCS teams. It's dumb to downplay what Clemson has accomplished.
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All-American [573]
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All-American [573]
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All-In [48676]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 10:12 PM
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Good discussion. Still not sure why we didn't see cade up 24-zip. Perfect time to get him meaningful snaps with the ones. As for Streeter development of the current qbs, we haven't seen enough of cade to tell what he can and can't do. It takes more than one mop series.
Agree we need to see more Mafah. Love the way he waits on the block to develop. Shipley will get better.
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Associate AD [811]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 20, 2022, 10:28 PM
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so what position group will the OC coach? NCAA limits the number of position coaches to 10. give us a run down.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: NCAA 10 assistant limit likely going the way of the dodo...
Nov 20, 2022, 11:48 PM
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This is very interesting and don't think I'd mind no limits on coaches
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All-In [25412]
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Great discussion in this thread. I'd like to see Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 5:05 AM
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and Cade for a quarter or two in play-calling, although it probably won't happen this season.
Just a casual opinion already expressed by others, but it appears play-calling has been tailored to DJ's capabilities, which limit any razzle-dazzle some might wish to see.
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Orange Blooded [3131]
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Re: Great discussion in this thread. I'd like to see Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 12:23 PM
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Now now, we have a game coming up this weekend that has potential to be a Yuge blowout by half time. Cade could get plenty of snaps ?
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110%er [9047]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 5:57 AM
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I just think we need to keep our foot on the gas and stop playing Bowden ball when we're ahead. That is playing not to lose, not playing to win. There is a huge difference.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Streeter should've never been hired as OC.......
Nov 21, 2022, 7:06 AM
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Dabo has built this program to where it's no longer a "learn on the job" program.
Dabo needs to apply his "Best is the Standard" motto to his hiring process.
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All-TigerNet [11135]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 7:41 AM
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That just goes back to what others say here and what the Analysts and Announcers talk about when discussing Clemson before and during games, DJ was the #1 ranked "PRO STYLE QB" in his class - "NOT DUAL THREAT". Yes, he runs designed draws and options, but his first choice is to pass. We've seen it with coverage sacks, holding the ball looking for a WR or not running when it's wide open.
There is way to much more to get into, but, yes the current situation limits play calling at times and Streeter has to make play calls based on the hand he's dealt each week.
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110%er [5608]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 7:57 AM
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You make some interesting points.
Been wondering for a while if we need a new QB coach. Klubnick needs to be ready to play and it doesn't seem like he is. DJ is better than last year, but not great. If Cade were on track I figured he'd be pushing for PT, or would be the starter by now.
If all of our QB's are behind where there talent suggest... it's not a coincidence. Just my opinion, but neither of them look the part right now.
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Hall of Famer [22954]
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Re: Unpopular Opinion on Streeter
Nov 21, 2022, 9:32 AM
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People who are complaining about play calling are just not seeing what we have been doing recently. Even the ESPN announcers Saturday were talking about how our play calling has been much more innovative this year. We had a really nice pass to Pace coming across the middle and several good plays to TEs and slot receivers going straight down the field Saturday. The TDs to Price and Allen were great play calls that were executed nearly perfectly. The sideline pass to Mafah in the first quarter was a perfect throw to the third or forth read. About once a game we have a play where DJ fakes the handoff, takes 2-3 steps with his head down like he is going to run and then throws a little jump pass, usually over the middle but Saturday it went to a receiver (Randall I think) on the sideline. Y’all really need to stop with the tired old narrative and watch the games.
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Legend [15751]
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Eh. I'm not smart enough to say definitively but some
Nov 21, 2022, 9:58 AM
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of the play calling has been just head-scratching. We can't be this afraid to execute with the talent we have.
And I'm with you 100% on QB coach. Streeter, in my uninformed opinion, isn't getting it done. We need not only someone who can optimize a QB's mechanics but also his decision making and mental approach to the game. A "QB Whisperer", as they say. We have too much talent at the position to be concerned about it every week.
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Oculus Spirit [94230]
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That reminds me of something Mark Petrowski said.
Nov 21, 2022, 12:51 PM
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He was a builder and professor of sociology at Clemson. "You can't make chickensalad out of chickenchit, it don't matter how much pickles and mayonnaise you stir in."
Imo, our coaching staff has won 10 games with a QB who might be deserving of half that many. With apologies to DJ for he had done perhaps done better in his situation and struggles than most of us would have.
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|
50
