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Replies: 57
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Rant: Student Loans are Ridiculous.
Mar 26, 2014, 9:19 AM
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Found out over the weekend that a buddy of mine who graduated from Clemson left school with over 70k in student loans.(most of them high interest fannie mae type loans)...He is paying more a month toward school loans than he is his apartment.
He received very little to no financial aid even though he continually applied each year. His family is not well to do, and his parents definitely couldn't afford to pay his way.
I left school with Less than 10k in loans(2nd year only) and was very lucky that my family agreed to pay half if I put up the other half(I worked most of my time in college) and they even put up more if I couldn't quite afford half.
It seems ridiculous to me that we are told at a very young age to grow up, get a college degree, now get a masters, and join the workforce to be a productive member of society.
While I agree education is important I can say first hand that my degree hasn't done much for me. I'm in a field that has nothing to do with my degree and have moved up through the ranks by busting my @$$.
I just hate it for the kids coming up now a days. Doesnt seem fair to come out that much in debt and not make nearly what people used to and the job market is crap.
End of Rant.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Grow up, go to college, and spend your glory years working
Mar 26, 2014, 9:21 AM
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2 jobs because that degree ain't worth half what you paid for it.
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All-In [29052]
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Govt backed student loans
Mar 26, 2014, 9:27 AM
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Once the govt said "Hey we'll guarantee these get paid" then loaners could give them out like candy. Once pretty much anyone could get a loan to go to college, colleges saw they could charge basically anything they want.
And it all got more expensive.
I love Clemson and my degree, but there are very real routes to my industry (software development) that do not require the sort of investment into a standard 4 year degree that it would cost me now. Trade schools and certificate programs will see big growth as colleges become prohibitively expensive (or more accurately as people realize how prohibitively expensive they already are).
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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I work in IT Project Mgmt, and have no formal training
Mar 26, 2014, 9:35 AM
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I started as a "mule" putting PC's in place and hooking them up making $10/hr. at the age of 19(after leaving Clemson after 2 years). They then realized I had the capacity to learn so they taught me troubleshooting/etc. I was promoted 3 times by the time I was 21 and became a 1 man IT department at a 150+ person office in Tennessee.
I went back to finish my business degree that year while still working.
I moved on to 2 other employers and have gotten nice size bumps doing so.
I made my jumps by outworking/outsmarting others even though I didn't have a degree in their field.
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Rock Defender [54]
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^^^now makes $12k/week working from home on the internet****
Mar 26, 2014, 9:40 AM
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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How'd you know?***
Mar 26, 2014, 9:41 AM
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All-In [29052]
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That sounds a good bit like my wife
Mar 26, 2014, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to I work in IT Project Mgmt, and have no formal training ] |
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She's a project manager as well. Her undergrad degree is in Vocal Performance from a small private school, and she left school with a good bit of student loans. After she decided she didn't want to go the opera route, she started a temp job in an office. She worked her tail off and went from exec assistant to office manager to project manager. After a job change she worked for a company which paid for her MBA, moved up and worked for another company which paid for her ACP and PMP, and just took a job with a startup as their director of PM's.
All because of dang hard work and a great ability in her field.
The day is coming, I am guessing, where smaller more specialized degrees/programs/certificates will allow speciialized training which may help get jobs without the burden of enormous student loans. Or at least I am hoping so.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I've never had a job where anything from college has
Mar 26, 2014, 9:44 AM
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helped with ANYTHING other than having a degree met a basic requirement of the position.
Everything else has been OJT.
I bet more fall into this bucket than most.
Pigs of your wife?
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All-In [29052]
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My degree helped me get my first job
Mar 26, 2014, 9:46 AM
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But that was simply the formality of having one, with the basic belief that since I had a degree in CompSci and a minor in Math I could do the job.
After that it has been all work and development.
And no, no pics of my wife. Used to have a pic of us in my signature, but after a few unpleasant comments I learned that lesson quick.
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CU Medallion [54759]
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Re: My degree helped me get my first job
Mar 26, 2014, 10:23 AM
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so just crop yourself out, and put it back
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All-In [29052]
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Point
Mar 26, 2014, 10:30 AM
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However, no.
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Oculus Spirit [98261]
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This is counter-intuitive to many students and even
Mar 26, 2014, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Govt backed student loans ] |
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economists, but when you toss "free" money at an industry, whatever it is, prices tend to go up. The loan companies are just going to raise rates, etc. to counter what is being tossed into the system. If it's just fed backing of the loans, that takes the risk out of them so the risk pool just expands. Insurance companies pool risk all the time, but that increased risk is offset by higher premiums and leveraged in other areas. There are high risk pools that the state makes them participate in so people who insurers would never insure can still get somewhat affordable insurance. That increased risk is funded by all insurance companies and they in turn extract that from premiums across the board in lower risk areas.
Plus the colleges know they can charge more because their risk has shrunk as well. It's a bad situation that few if any students understand when going into college. It is insane to totally fund your college degree with loans. If you can't fund 80% of it yourself, through savings from the parents and the kid, then they should save up some more to go. It's just like a house or car loan. Sure, you can finance almost all of your house or car. I wouldn't do it though. Too many people have and that caused housing prices to rise way too much and way too fast. And it crashed because unlike student loans, there is no backing of the money from the government.
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Oculus Spirit [79683]
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Probably 1/4 of the people I knew completely
Mar 26, 2014, 10:34 AM
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financed their college. I'm talking food, housing, tuition, everything financed. Crazyness. My ex-girlfriend had 6 figure debt before she even started her masters.
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Oculus Spirit [98261]
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And you see where the problems arise.
Mar 26, 2014, 10:49 AM
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You SHOULD save up enough to pay for all of college. My 5 year old has just over $10K and I'm thinking that's not enough. But realistically anything over %50 is OK assuming you apply yourself. As an employer I would think twice about hiring the best and brightest college graduate who financed 100% of their college. They may have the best grades on Earth, but they still made a huge financial mistake by gambling with that much debt. I would much rather hire someone 5-10 years older who maybe went into the military to pay for college, or worked and saved up for it, and they come out with relatively little debt. A lot of these people are not being hired because employers know they're stupid with their own money...how bad would they be with your company's money? People with less debt are far more employable across the board in just about any industry, and any level of education.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Agreed. What's worse is debating the merits of even
Mar 26, 2014, 9:40 AM
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going to college nowadays. Throw out the life experience, accomplishment, and all the feel-good shyatt and look at it strictly from a ROI perspective. And this is assuming you don't have a bunch of money laying around.
I really think that unless you are going to get a degree in something specific (accounting, engineering, nursing, etc.) for a field you will be working in that requires a degree, that going to a 4 yr school makes a ton of sense nowadays. Maybe going to tech for 2 yrs then transferring would make more sense.
The days of getting a major in history or eduction with the intention of figuring life out later makes VERY LITTLE sense financially.
Sad because I think 4 yrs of college should be required (for life purposes) for everyone.
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All-In [40674]
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Red got a degree in English and will be taking over
Mar 26, 2014, 9:46 AM
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her fathers manufacturing company in 5 years. She has it more figured out than I ever did.
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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You can get a bullshyatt degree if you're rich
Mar 26, 2014, 9:47 AM
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and Daddy is going to hook you up with a cushy job
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Rock Defender [54]
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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All-In [40674]
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This is the plan except I never want to work there.
Mar 26, 2014, 9:52 AM
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Heisman Winner [136309]
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Red's Dad need any soon-to-graduate Clemson grads?
Mar 26, 2014, 10:05 AM
[ in reply to Red got a degree in English and will be taking over ] |
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I REALLY need to get Joonyer off my payroll and on to someone else's! My future recreational endeavors are heavily dependent upon this.
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All-In [40674]
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Any background in textile manufacturing?
Mar 26, 2014, 10:36 AM
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If not, he sounds perfect
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Heisman Winner [136309]
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I've noticed that he wears a lot of textiles.
Mar 26, 2014, 10:46 AM
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Does that help?
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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What I ran into way back when and keep running
Mar 26, 2014, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Agreed. What's worse is debating the merits of even ] |
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into today is the experience thing. I found a job to apply for the other night, even have somebody than can call in for me to put in a good word, but this job demands 2 years of software implementation experience. Won't even talk to somebody without that. It seems that could be learned on the fly.
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Oculus Spirit [98261]
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Experience is one of those things that for most majors
Mar 26, 2014, 10:36 AM
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is not taught in college. There are exceptions with engineering, etc. But almost any liberal arts major will have a lot to learn on the job. Now the question is "Do I need a college degree to learn this stuff?" Far too many jobs require a college degree that 80% of all high school kids could learn just as easily on the job.
A college degree doesn't guarantee you squat in life. It does guarantee you the ability to apply for jobs with higher advancement opportunities. But the key to anyone's success in a new job, by far, is not from what they learned in college, but what they learn while doing the job.
And even learning a lot is not enough to get to the very top. You have to take your job and look for decencies in value to your customer, whoever it is, and eliminate them as much as possible. Likewise, you have to be assertive and innovate in areas that can increase efficiency in your job that will help your customers. In the end, the value of YOUR job, YOUR company lies with how much VALUE it can provide to your customers. Period.
So get the degree to get in at the bottom, if needed. Learn all you can about your job, company, and industry. Never stop learning no matter how monotonous the job may seem. Take what you learn and decrease inefficiencies to your customers and innovate to make things more efficient for your company and your customers. Good companies find an invaluable service and deliver that service as best as possible to their customers. The best companies, however, do the same thing, but are always looking ahead for other invaluable services and how to deliver them to customers as efficiently as possible.
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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I also tell people that marketing is a fine minor.
Mar 26, 2014, 10:40 AM
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Everybody should take at least a few classes in marketing, but it is a terrible major. I found jobs that were for home builders, wanted 2-3 years of building experience and a marketing background. Stuff like that was very common back in 2003. If I had time, I think I'd go back to school for AC repair. It isn't going away until we hit mad max times and I could probably find a way to start my own company fairly quickly.
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Oculus Spirit [98261]
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Yep. Work in AC repair for a company. Find out
Mar 26, 2014, 11:00 AM
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how they do things well, and what you would do differently. Then save up and start your own company. Lawyers do this all the time. Lawyers get a law degree and that is one of the broadest, least productive degrees you can get. But if you're smart, when you get into law you should try and work for at least 5-10 years in the area that you plan on opposing for the majority of your career. If you plan on doing defense work, work for a while at a plaintiff's firm. Likewise, you can work for a defense firm and then go into plaintiff's work for yourself. It's a good resume builder to have knowledge of the other side.
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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4 years of college required? lol
Mar 26, 2014, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Agreed. What's worse is debating the merits of even ] |
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In my industry we can't find good CNC operators or maintenance technicians because society tells anyone with half a brain they need to get a 4 year degree. We need to encourage more people to go to tech schools to fill the good paying manufacturing jobs that keep moving into SC. I'm talking $18-$28/hr jobs.
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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I'll take one of those.***
Mar 26, 2014, 9:51 AM
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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$14hr starting out but you'd be up to $20 in a year
Mar 26, 2014, 9:59 AM
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in Greenville. Takes a some basic math/geometry skills.
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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Drats. I have basice excel skills but haven't
Mar 26, 2014, 10:26 AM
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thought about geometry in 15 years or so.
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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Re: Drats. I have basice excel skills but haven't
Mar 26, 2014, 10:39 AM
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If you can use Excel you can run a CNC machine
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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Sweet! Remind me of this once I don't have
Mar 26, 2014, 10:41 AM
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a mortgage down here anymore. I do wonder what some of these type jobs would think of somebody like me applying.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Those manufacturing jobs are a double edged sword.
Mar 26, 2014, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to 4 years of college required? lol ] |
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Most of the college kids think they are to good for that kind of work. And most everyone else is lazy and wants to live off the gov.
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Oculus Spirit [79683]
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Every machine shop I've talked to in the past year has
Mar 26, 2014, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to 4 years of college required? lol ] |
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said the exact same thing. Many of them have even resorted to going through temp agencies, hiring people with zero experience and training them on the job. These are above minimum wage jobs too, all you have to do is learn what to do, yet most don't make it two weeks.
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All-In [40674]
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Most temps I have ever worked with while I worked
Mar 26, 2014, 10:42 AM
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at the boiler place worked one day and we never saw them again.
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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Re: Every machine shop I've talked to in the past year has
Mar 26, 2014, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to Every machine shop I've talked to in the past year has ] |
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Temp agencies are pretty standard because if the do suck after a few weeks, you don't have the "fire" them. Saves a lot on unemployment insurance.
Experienced CNC operators will sometimes get hired "off the street" if the company is hurting for operators.
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All-In [40674]
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The ones that dont go to college though feel entitled
Mar 26, 2014, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Agreed. What's worse is debating the merits of even ] |
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to get the same jobs as the ones that do go to college. As a poster below said, those that are uneducated feel they are above manufacturing, hard labor and burger flipping jobs. Then when they do take those jobs, they want their hourly wages raised to $15 an hour. Thats over $30,000 a year, which means that is what my girlfriend got out of school with an english degree, which is also on par with teachers that are shaping the lives of young minds.
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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I've thought about going and getting one of those
Mar 26, 2014, 9:59 AM
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burger flipping jobs in hopes of getting management experience. I then come to my scenes and realize I'd only survive a few hours working with employees I see.
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All-In [40674]
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I have worked in the food industry
Mar 26, 2014, 10:03 AM
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And it takes a special kind of brainless person to work at those.
This brings up another point, I also worked in the hard labor industry installing and removing boiler systems in hospitals, school and manufacturing plants. The type of people that work there arent grateful to have a job. They hate their job and no matter what their experience, they always think they are better than their employer rather than being thankful they have supplied them with a job.
But one thing I always notice is no matter how much they despise their job, they always continue working instead of going somewhere else. In the rare chances they did leave, they came back 80% of the time begging for their job back. If they did receive their job, they would always go back to talking bad about their boss and their superiors.
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All-In [29052]
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Yep
Mar 26, 2014, 10:07 AM
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My job rule #1 is "don't bad mouth the job while at the job." We've all had crappy jobs, but doing those crappy jobs with a positive attitude (or at least putting on a positive attitude) is a huge part of what gets you to the slightly less crappy job.
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All-In [40674]
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The thing is, these people are treated very fair
Mar 26, 2014, 10:14 AM
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working at their job, some of them were in the $30/hr range and were still unhappy because it was manual labor and they actually had to do work. Some of these people didnt even have high school degrees and expected to be treated like princes.
I sat next to this guy the other night at dinner that had tattoos all over his body and was complaining about how he was smarter than his employer and how his job was miserable and my favorite line, one which all of the people I worked with had said, "Im out of there at the end of the year and Im going to get a new job that respects me".
None of them ever left.
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CU Guru [1321]
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I work with a guy like that here.
Mar 26, 2014, 10:22 AM
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"This place would close the doors if I left"
"I'm going to leave and take all my customers with me"
"[Supervisor] doesn't know his #### from a doorknob. I could do his job better than him, AND my job, and we'd never miss a beat."
"We're bringing in record money but the company is always broke because [Mr and Mrs Owner/President] are skimming too much off the top. They have a ton of money."
"I've got 4 better job offers right now. [customer] is calling me begging me to go work for him at the state. As soon as this phone call comes back, this is my last project here."
"I was making $80K before I came to this hell hole. That's quite a pay cut for me, you know. I'm worth a lot more than that."
I listen to this 2 to 3 times a day. He has exponentially increasing experience (last year it was 38, this year it's 42) and he knows everyone who ever did anything in Richmond.
You could live 3 full lifetimes and not the life he has.
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All-In [40674]
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I cannot like this enough
Mar 26, 2014, 10:25 AM
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One of the best pieces of advice my father has given me was "Keep your mouth shut, dont cause a scene, and work hard. Because in 7-8 years, you wont be the low guy on the totem poll anymore and it will all be worth it"
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Oculus Spirit [76043]
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I've said some of those things over and over again, all but
Mar 26, 2014, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to I work with a guy like that here. ] |
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the job offer one. Last year I got an offer to get out, but it was just too low to take the chance. One misstep was acquiring too many liabilities while I held on to just get my 401k fully vested here. I am now working to get rid of some of those (the house) then I can be free to start over.
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Oculus Spirit [98261]
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Bingo. Also, making your crappy job a little less crappy
Mar 26, 2014, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to Yep ] |
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helps too. As long as the product is the same at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you got there. Get there quicker with the same or better quality. Figure it out and you have security and can advance.
But if you just sit around and foment and complain, and do nothing more than what is asked...you're expendable and will be shown the door faster than others.
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110%er [9157]
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Has the lotto $$$ helped increase the price of a college
Mar 26, 2014, 9:50 AM
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education in SC? From the outside it looks like once students got the lotto money towards college the price started going up, since part of it was subsidized.
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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absolutely it has***
Mar 26, 2014, 10:01 AM
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Oculus Spirit [82106]
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I hate being an engineer now***
Mar 26, 2014, 9:52 AM
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All-In [48562]
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Look at the bright side. As an engineer,
Mar 26, 2014, 10:08 AM
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you can do ANYTHING!
At least that's what all the engineers say.
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CU Medallion [54759]
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Heisman Winner [106647]
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BULLSHIP. THAT IS THE EXACT ATTITUDE WE NEED AT
Mar 26, 2014, 12:45 PM
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TAE INC, LLC.
IT IS DEF. MY ATTITUDE.
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Heisman Winner [106647]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65603
Joined: 12/2/02
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I mean, didn't we adopt the company motto of
Mar 26, 2014, 12:49 PM
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#### IT, DUDE. LET'S GO BOWLING.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4418
Joined: 1/27/03
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Had a friend in grad school use her loan to get a boob job
Mar 26, 2014, 10:15 AM
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Married a rich husband after school.......Brilliant!
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CU Medallion [54759]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 52803
Joined: 10/1/03
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wife and I have total of $64k LEFT
Mar 26, 2014, 10:18 AM
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LEFT.
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CU Guru [1298]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1425
Joined: 2/11/04
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To learn how to draw pictures? lulz.
Mar 26, 2014, 10:21 AM
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The wife has 3 degrees and makes more $ than me, but not much. I have zero degrees.
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CU Medallion [54759]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 52803
Joined: 10/1/03
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did you forget who you signed in as?***
Mar 26, 2014, 10:23 AM
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CU Guru [1298]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1425
Joined: 2/11/04
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######.***
Mar 26, 2014, 10:24 AM
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Replies: 57
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