All-In [48596]
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SIXTEEN TRILLION IN DEBT.
Sep 5, 2012, 11:59 AM
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GUANTANAMO STILL OPEN. STILL FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN UNTIL AT LEAST HALFWAY TIL OBAMA'S 2ND TERM. UNEMPLOYMENT STILL OUT OF CONTROL
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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but Michelle is a polished speaker***
Sep 5, 2012, 12:01 PM
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CU Guru [1298]
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I need eyeplugs.***
Sep 5, 2012, 12:01 PM
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All-TigerNet [10171]
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Obama could raises taxes 11 times like Reagan did...***
Sep 5, 2012, 12:04 PM
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110%er [7980]
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once again
Sep 5, 2012, 12:13 PM
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the reply is, but but but the pubs did (fill in the blank)
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All-In [25724]
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Rock Defender [54]
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^^^should be the only words out of Romney's mouth
Sep 5, 2012, 12:12 PM
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for the next two months.
If he can't win on these things, he needs to hang it up.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Ed Zackery***
Sep 5, 2012, 12:47 PM
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110%er [8142]
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The fact that the right criticizes Obama for not...
Sep 5, 2012, 1:11 PM
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... closing Gitmo, when everyone of them opposed the idea from the beginning anyway, gives you a pretty goood idea of what today's right wing considers important - politics, period.
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All-In [30543]
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Well,
Sep 5, 2012, 1:19 PM
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he did promise. So, there's that!
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [8142]
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Not particularly, no.
Sep 5, 2012, 1:24 PM
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I don't expect him to do much of anything differently.
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All-In [48596]
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I cannot take credit for this post. The Clone said it first
Sep 5, 2012, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to The fact that the right criticizes Obama for not... ] |
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However, I could say "Sixteen trillion in debt" and forget the rest of the stuff and I think there is a pretty good argument for a change in the White House.
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110%er [8142]
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So Obama has to take the blame for all 16 trillion?
Sep 5, 2012, 1:30 PM
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Even though they may act that way sometimes, Americans aren't that stupid.
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110%er [7980]
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no just approximately 5 trillion***
Sep 5, 2012, 1:36 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [8142]
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Hey pal, I was talking federal debt back when it...
Sep 5, 2012, 1:42 PM
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... wasn't cool, like when Bush was adding to it hand over fist. I don't think Obama's debts are any better than Bush's. But for the GOP to make this a campaign issue when they are at the very least equally responsible for it, is pathetic.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Hey Pal..so was I. I think I regularly used the term
Sep 5, 2012, 1:52 PM
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"Spending like a drunken sailor" when describing Bush.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Dunken sailors are offended.
Sep 5, 2012, 10:56 AM
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When said drunken sailors run out of money, they go back to the boat and, wait for the next pay period.
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All-In [48596]
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110%er [8142]
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Why didn't you say "his part of the 16 trillion?"
Sep 5, 2012, 1:44 PM
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Because that doesn't make the same sound bite, huh?
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All-In [32060]
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He was saying the debt hit 16TT....
Sep 5, 2012, 1:46 PM
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come on...you can't be that dense, right?
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110%er [8142]
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Would have been easy to say that. Didn't happen.***
Sep 5, 2012, 1:49 PM
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All-In [32060]
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Would have been easy to use your head. Didn't happen.******
Sep 5, 2012, 1:59 PM
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110%er [8142]
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I guess I don't use my head the way you use yours.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:07 PM
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You can talk yourself into anything, I can't.
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All-In [32060]
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Riiiight***
Sep 5, 2012, 2:12 PM
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110%er [8142]
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I thought you'd like that one.***
Sep 5, 2012, 4:01 PM
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All-In [48596]
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Does it matter?
Sep 5, 2012, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to Why didn't you say "his part of the 16 trillion?" ] |
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It is out of control and both sides are to blame. So what has your boy Barry done to fix the problem? Answer: He has increased it by $5+ trillion in 4 years. What is he going to do if he is re-elected? Spend more money and blame Bush? How is this going to fix the problems? How can you defend his fiscal policy while he does nothing to address the issue?
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110%er [8142]
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If hypocrisy and political opportunism don't matter, no.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:04 PM
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It always seems to when it's on the other side.
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All-In [48596]
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Get off your high horse.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:11 PM
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Answer the question. What is Obama going to do if re-elected to address the issue of the national debt?
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110%er [8142]
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If the GOP stays in charge of the house, I don't think...
Sep 5, 2012, 2:31 PM
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... much of anything is going to be done about the debt one way or another, and once again, both sides will be to blame. I don't see a lot of creativity coming from the Obama camp on the economy, and the GOP will not be interested in reducing the debt on Obama's watch. They know their day will come, and the deeper we are in debt when that day arrives, the easier it will be to do what they've planned for 40 years - which is, eliminate Social Security and Medicare, along with the rest of the social safety net. It's an argument they could not win with hearts and minds, so they decided to do it through the wallet.
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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You seem to forget that the Republican controlled house are
Sep 5, 2012, 2:34 PM
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ones that submitted and passed a budget that actually reduces the debt. I was shot down by the democratic senate.
Where is Obama's budget proposal? The last one he submitted to the senate not a single democrat voted for.
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110%er [8142]
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Certainly, reducing the debt on their terms.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:38 PM
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That's been the plan all along, and they've just about got us where they want us.
Ans fyi, Obama never submitted any budget to the senate that was voted down by democrats.
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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All-In [32060]
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psst...it wasn't strictly his budget...it was a take on...
Sep 5, 2012, 2:53 PM
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his budget without any details.
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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we know this, see below***
Sep 5, 2012, 2:57 PM
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110%er [8142]
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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Yes, it was essentially Obama's budget.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:57 PM
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However, NOT submitting one is even worse. So we can go with that if you'd like. Not submitting a budget is a sure fire way of bringing down the debt that you claim democrats are so concerned with.
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All-In [32060]
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I think you mean deficit, right?....
Sep 5, 2012, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to You seem to forget that the Republican controlled house are ] |
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the house budget puts us on a path to reduce the deficit and one day maybe run a surplus and reduce the debt, but that would be 20 yrs off or so (if I remember correctly). Frankly, it wasn't steep enough of a change for my tastes, but certainly the best to come out of either side of Congress in a loooong time.
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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That's exactly the point
Sep 5, 2012, 3:00 PM
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See the original post. He claimed the republicans were the ones preventing the debt from being reduced implying that the democrats would do it.
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All-In [32060]
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I get that, but if you're going to make points...
Sep 5, 2012, 3:08 PM
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I think using the correct terms/facts is important.
Cutting the budget deficit is very much different than reducing the debt.
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110%er [8142]
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You read an awful lot into that post.
Sep 5, 2012, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to That's exactly the point ] |
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Some of which was clearly intended. I didn't imply that either side would do anything about the debt, only that a GOP controlled house would guarantee nothing got done, for better or worse.
I think the GOP believes we have to cut our way out of debt, and there simply isn't enough to cut without fundamentally changing the way we do things.
I think Democrats believe we have to grow our way out of debt, but they have no particularly good ideas as to how to do that.
Bottom line is, both IDEOLOGIES are flawed and need to be jettisoned in favor of IDEAS.
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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All-In [48596]
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A fine response.
Sep 5, 2012, 3:03 PM
[ in reply to If the GOP stays in charge of the house, I don't think... ] |
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While I disagree with you that the GOP wants to "eliminate Social Security and Medicare," the reality of the situation is that spending has to be cut somewhere. I believe that certainly a PART of that will come from Social Security and Medicare.
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110%er [8142]
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I don't think getting rid of SS and Medicare...
Sep 5, 2012, 3:10 PM
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... are things the rank-and-file Republican is interested in, but I do think there is a pretty powerful faction, including the presumptive VP, that intends that.
On the other hand, there's some pretty powerful Democrats who think they can continue as they have in perpetuity too, an equally unreasonable position.
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All-In [48596]
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I've heard the word privatization a lot, but have not heard
Sep 5, 2012, 3:13 PM
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any Republican mention the word eliminate. That would be political suicide.
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110%er [8142]
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That's basically what I meant by elimination.
Sep 5, 2012, 3:17 PM
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They'll offer alternatives, but it won't be SS and medicare anymore.
In the case of medicare, I'm not sure that's a bad idea. But privatizing SS is tantamount to elimination.
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Re: That's basically what I meant by elimination.
Sep 5, 2012, 3:44 PM
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Why?
My plan:
Keep SS contributions as they are put instead of putting that portion that goes to widows and orphans into the black hole, put it into self-directed untouchable private accounts. Let these accounts have choices from T-bonds and bills to S and P 500 at the riskiest. These accounts would belong to the investor and if the investor died before retirement age, they would go to the estate.
Why is this worse than what we have now?
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110%er [8142]
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Because it's no longer a pension, but an IRA.
Sep 5, 2012, 3:49 PM
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And as such subject to the slings and arrows of the wonderful world of Wall Street. Sell your plan to the millions who lost millions of their retirement funds in the recent recession. SS is an old-age pension, not a retiremnt plan, and had it been properly managed as a pension, rather than abused by its administrators, it would still be solvent.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Uhhh, it sounds like you want to put the portion that
Sep 5, 2012, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's basically what I meant by elimination. ] |
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goes to widows & orphans into investment accounts?
I agree with privatizing the retirement portion of SS (although paying for current benefits while allowing workers to save for their own retirements is the challenge). But you want to do away with survivor benefits to fund future retirements?
Good luck with that. Aside from the fact that I think the survivor benefits is actually a small portion of expenses, I wonder how many people will go for such a thing...
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Rock Defender [54]
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This is the problem...
Sep 5, 2012, 2:16 PM
[ in reply to So Obama has to take the blame for all 16 trillion? ] |
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Instead of democrats saying what the pubs did was wrong, and stop digging the hole...they increase it by a third...then still blame the republicans.
Why can't it be simply appalling to all Americans? 106% of GDP.
It shouldn't be allowed to increase another day. The president should at LEAST be able to stop the debt clock. That would be improvement on turning it backwards.
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110%er [8142]
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I think there's plenty of blame to go around.***
Sep 5, 2012, 2:33 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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No doubt.
Sep 5, 2012, 2:37 PM
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but when does the time for blame stop and somebody decide to actually fix it?
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All-In [32060]
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I don't critisize for him for not closing Gitmo but rather..
Sep 5, 2012, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to The fact that the right criticizes Obama for not... ] |
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for being completely full of sheet about it during the campaign, in which I believe full well he knew closing it was the wrong move. He beat Bush up over Gitmo and he knew it was in our best interest to keep it open.
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110%er [8142]
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You don't think he was just wrong?
Sep 5, 2012, 1:39 PM
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I believe he really intended to close it, but found out after he took office that it was a lot more complicated than it looked - something that happens to every president at some time or the other.
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All-In [32060]
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Come on...he knew...he was getting daily intel....
Sep 5, 2012, 1:44 PM
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briefings at a certain level once he got the nomination.
Plus he had a lot of people telling him it wasn't a good idea and explaining why.
Plus he was in the Senate for some yrs.
He knew.
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110%er [8142]
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What would intelligence briefings have to do with it?
Sep 5, 2012, 1:48 PM
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He had plenty of people telling him it was the right thing to do too, in fact, a lot of people still believe that. I think he just changed his mind.
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All-In [32060]
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To each his own***
Sep 5, 2012, 2:00 PM
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110%er [8142]
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Well we agree on that.***
Sep 5, 2012, 2:05 PM
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Oculus Spirit [98303]
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I think it's more of the fact Obama has not done what he
Sep 5, 2012, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to The fact that the right criticizes Obama for not... ] |
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promised. On a similar note, I haven't noticed any appreciable decrease in sea levels in the past 4 years either.
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110%er [8142]
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Well, I have him graded at about a C- , but when it...
Sep 5, 2012, 4:00 PM
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... comes to fulfilling campaign promises, he's done better than most. Reforming health care, ending the war in Iraq, and chasing Al Quaida into Pakistan and bringing Bin Laden to justice, were all major campaign promises on which he has delivered. Nobody fulfills them all, but most don't even come close. Like it or not, he has.
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