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Replies: 138
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All-In [44055]
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Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:19 PM
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about today’s basketball signees.
Our 2024 class is currently ranked #17. I wanted to make sure that the Brownell Bashers here are aware, since they like to criticize Brad’s recruiting.
Isn’t it amazing what an increased budget for hiring better assistant coaches can do?
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Legend [18858]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:20 PM
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Yawwwwnnnnnnnnnmmm………………….
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All-In [44055]
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Im sorry this topic makes you tired.
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:50 PM
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I would think most Clemson basketball fans would be thrilled to see that we are recruiting better.
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Legend [18858]
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Re: Im sorry this topic makes you tired.
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Nov 9, 2023, 12:08 AM
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UntilBrad doesn’t crap the bed, it won’t matter. 14 years of every year ending in disappointment makes it hard to get excited.
Your post was to get a jab in and you did that. That is your reward. Carry on now
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110%er [6172]
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Re: Im sorry this topic makes you tired.
Nov 11, 2023, 1:47 PM
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That’s the main problem with that guy/girl. Always seeks to divide the Clemson fan base by deflecting from the one constant of basketball mediocrity over the last 14 years. Makes it hard to enjoy success they do have. My goal this basketball season is to focus solely on the players and their success without worrying about the brain trust this year.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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I've never felt these teams didn't have talent. It's the results with said
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:54 AM
[ in reply to Im sorry this topic makes you tired. ] |
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talent that I've grown weary of.
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All-In [44055]
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We are typically at a talent disadvantage in the ACC.
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Nov 9, 2023, 11:14 AM
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Even if we sign a top 30-35 class, that's mid-pack in the ACC.
Yet when you look at our conference finishes, we do better than our recruiting rankings would suggest. It's another example of Brownell doing more with less.
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Legend [19950]
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Were we at a talent disadvantage when we played Morehead State?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 12:19 PM
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Legend [18858]
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Re: We are typically at a talent disadvantage in the ACC.
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Nov 9, 2023, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to We are typically at a talent disadvantage in the ACC. ] |
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Tournament teams each year are littered with teams with less talent by recruiting standards, that achieve the goal of making the tournament and winning games in the tournament.
Arguing your point of Brownell doing more with less, imagine if we had one of their coaches who could do more with the greater recruiting classes we have
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All-In [44055]
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How many of those teams play in the ACC?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:53 PM
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Legend [18858]
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Re: How many of those teams play in the ACC?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:46 PM
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The ACC is arguably the 4th or 5th best basketball conference now. It no longer is the premier conference it was. How has Brownell not capitalized on the downward direction of the ACC? Even the Gamecocks in football won the SEC Least when it was down
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: We are typically at a talent disadvantage in the ACC.
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:15 PM
[ in reply to We are typically at a talent disadvantage in the ACC. ] |
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What's amazing are the fans who are (1) completely satisfied with middle-of-the-pack recruiting and overall results and (2) don't realize that will never change as long as Brownell is the head coach.
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All-In [44055]
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Who is satisfied with middle of the pack recruiting?
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:52 PM
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I’m certainly not, which is why I’ve continued to harp on the need for more money in the basketball budget to hire better assistants and continue with needed facility upgrades.
Guess what? We are starting to see the results of that increased investment.
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Legend [18858]
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Re: Who is satisfied with middle of the pack recruiting?
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:47 PM
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Who showed you this enlightenment? Was it not being one of the best 68 teams or losing to Morehead St?
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Freshman [-79]
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All-In [25011]
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Maybe because its soccer day at Clemson?***
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:21 PM
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Legend [18858]
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Re: Maybe because its soccer day at Clemson?***
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:22 PM
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They all have actually won something and are making a real tournament
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All-In [44055]
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Legend [16058]
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When basketball is such a failure? Yeah.***
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:59 PM
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110%er [5972]
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CU Medallion [57167]
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:30 PM
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Shouldn’t we be focusing on the portal? I have a hard time keeping up.
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All-In [38124]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:41 AM
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Hahahahahahaha!!!!! Nice...
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Hall of Famer [21764]
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Didnt know that was today. Most people on here probably dont.
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:30 PM
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I tried to go to different sites to find a TOP 25 Recruiting list and only found TOP 10 lists. And nonstop Dook articles and showing all their new toys.
So are we currently 5th or 6th inside the conference in recruiting rankings?
~JKB
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All-In [44055]
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Youre right, most probably didnt.
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:53 PM
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Not surprising.
I recommend waiting until this signing period is over before seeing where we stack up against the rest of the conference.
You’re right though, in the ACC there are frequently many teams signing top 25 classes.
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All-TigerNet [13548]
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110%er [5972]
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Sounds like we should promote the assistant coach
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:31 PM
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🤔
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Legend [16058]
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No one has questioned Brown-L's recruiting....
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Nov 8, 2023, 10:57 PM
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Only his results...
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110%er [6172]
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Re: No one has questioned Brown-L's recruiting....
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Nov 8, 2023, 11:11 PM
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years.
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:25 AM
[ in reply to No one has questioned Brown-L's recruiting.... ] |
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Simply shooting 3s with small guards and no true bigs,shot blockers, power forwards. Yes, we have hall now. But still no depth.
After 14 years, one good recruiting year - what a great trend line with one data point.
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All-Conference [403]
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Re: Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years.
Nov 9, 2023, 8:39 AM
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LOL WOW this is a garbage take
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years.
Nov 9, 2023, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years. ] |
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His 2020 class was equally ranked. Hall was the highest rated and is returning for his true senior season. Brownell ran off the other 2/3 of the class. One of whom just went in the first round of the draft.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years.
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:56 PM
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What did brownell do to "run off" lynn kidd?
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Legend [16158]
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Nothing...not a ############# thing, Vizcoot just makes things up***
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Nov 9, 2023, 6:05 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Nothing...not a ############# thing, Vizcoot just makes things up***
Nov 9, 2023, 6:15 PM
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Yes I’ve hacked the 247 database and NCAA stats website. You got me.
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Legend [16158]
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Link to where either site said Brad ran Kidd off...Because that's your
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:54 PM
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excuse to your accusation
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years.
Nov 9, 2023, 6:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Nope, his recruiting stunk too. His lack of big men thru the years. ] |
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So you want to argue semantics rather than facts. Did Kidd leave? Who recruited him? Why did he choose to leave? Was it circumstances within conscious control of the coach? If so - “run off” would apply regardless of whether or not beneficial. Did he leave for reasons unbeknownst to the coach? He’s noT managing 85 scholarships. If he’s losing 2/3rd of his best class it’s still on him. I think “run off “ works just fine.
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Legend [16158]
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By that logic, Dabo has run off a LOT of players in the last couple of years...
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:55 PM
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Care to make that claim Vizfib?
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Legend [16158]
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Legend [16921]
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Re: In what way were they run off? Is this yet another of your fairy tales?***
Nov 9, 2023, 6:12 PM
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Because they chose to leave. Who would have been most responsible for creating and environment that would encourage his recruits to stay. Once again, you absolve the coach of any responsibility for his program. Why do you care so much who coaches when you obviously don’t think they have any effect on the program.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: In what way were they run off? Is this yet another of your fairy tales?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 6:30 PM
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Ok, so just so we are clear, dabo runs off recruits too?
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Legend [16921]
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Re: In what way were they run off? Is this yet another of your fairy tales?***
Nov 9, 2023, 6:56 PM
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Sure. It’s not a statement I would lose any sleep over. It’s also a much, much smaller percentage of his overall signees.
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Legend [16158]
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Oh BS...If Keller said Dabo was running people off you would have an even
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:57 PM
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bigger hissy fit than you did last March and April
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Oh BS...If Keller said Dabo was running people off you would have an even
Nov 9, 2023, 8:17 PM
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Keller complains he doesn’t run enough people off to use the portal more so that wouldn’t make sense. And you’re arguing semantics to avoid the real point. And, as usual, absolving Brownell of all responsibility for his program. Your idea of defending is actually quite insulting.
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Legend [16158]
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No, you were wrong about the use of the phrase running off...simple as that***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:22 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: No, you were wrong about the use of the phrase running off...simple as that***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:39 PM
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Dude, you’re in flat earth territory. It’s an expression not a scientific term or unit of measure. I explained the meaning as I used it. If you don’t like it, tough ####. You haven’t won anything. And you haven’t in any way addressed the underlying issue that his 2/3 of recruits from 2020 left. And his last two recruiting classes have been bottom of the ACC.
But just In case you’re ready to turn a new leaf:
Run off : “to cause someone or something to leave” - Cambridge Dictionary
If Brad’s actions, directly or indirectly, don’t have an effect on our signees choice to leave then what is his job? You’ve lost. You’re wrong. Completely and totally. Zero gray area. But the power of the internet is you are never held to account and just post again.
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Legend [16158]
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tldr***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:51 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: tldr***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:55 PM
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I don’t blame you. You got owned.
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Legend [16158]
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Not by you Tyler***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:55 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Not by you Tyler***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:59 PM
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Glad you’re arguing the Cambridge Dictionary now. Definitely a winning strategy in debate. Too bad there isn’t a moderator to explain just how badly you’re scoring.
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Legend [16158]
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110%er [6962]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 8, 2023, 11:11 PM
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Could be multiple things, we signed 3 guys, not too much to say when already signed 2/3.
Prunell had a top 12 class in 2009 which Brownell milked one of his few tourny appearances. Not sure what you’re getting at, it’s been done before.
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All-In [44055]
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No one said it hasnt been done before.
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:41 AM
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But top 25 recruiting classes for Clemson basketball have certainly been a rarity throughout our history.
Here’s to having many more.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: No one said it hasnt been done before.
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:58 AM
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I know something that could help.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:25 PM
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I love that you continue to think that Brownell’s inability to develop the best recruiting class in Clemson history is somehow a positive for him. Perhaps relying on such idiotic arguments are why you and JK have so badly lost the public perception war on TNet. Most of these folks are indifferent at best to basketball but your asinine arguments have earned their derision. He inherited them with three years of eligibility left. Lost Noel Johnson after 1 season and failed Milton Jennings on every possibly level. But somehow, despite coaching him for 3 seasons bares no responsibility for the outcome in your eyes.
Unfortunately for whatever you might choose to reply, your coach disagrees with you: “ I am taking over a program that is in good shape and is in the best basketball league in the country… I immediately looked at the roster to see who is coming back, what do they have, are the guys any good, what have they done in the past. Obviously it didn’t take me long. I knew they had been in the tournament and they have good players in the program. So to come into a situation that is not completely broken – one where you aren’t asked to be a magician and fix it – is truly exciting for a young coach like me. My next goal is to take a team to the Final Four, and I told the people here that that was my goal. Certainly, if you can play well enough in the ACC and compete with the best teams in the ACC, then you have every opportunity to do that.“ I guess you should let him know just how wrong he was about the circumstances here. Do you think by “Final Four” he meant “Finally go to my Fourth tournament in year Fourteen”? Hmmm.🤔
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Legend [16158]
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Good Lord, that class was ALL smoke and mirrors...It had two mediocre
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:32 PM
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ACC players...Noel was an unrepentant chucker and Hill wasn't ACC caliber...Brad did a good job developing Milton, who was extremely over rated to begin with, and Milton will tell you as much...You obviously didn't attend his Senior Day
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Good Lord, that class was ALL smoke and mirrors...It had two mediocre
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:07 PM
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That’s great. Wonder who their coach was? Brownell is responsible for neither player development nor who he puts on the court. No wonder he gets such high marks.
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Legend [16158]
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Did you miss the part where I said he did a good job with Milton?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:56 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Did you miss the part where I said he did a good job with Milton?***
Nov 9, 2023, 6:10 PM
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Yes, I saw it. But you absolve Brownell of all responsibility where you see failings and all the credit when you perceive success (Jennings). So Brownell just had the worst luck of all time. Our highest rated class as busts? It’s not like there was Clemson bump in the rankings. Or a Purnell bump. They were ranked the same way these services always rank.
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Legend [16158]
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Did you watch them play at all? Devin was lazy, Hill couldn't dribble and Noel
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:59 PM
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was just a chucker...I don't give a #### what the ratings said, they weren't our best class...Not by a long shot
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Did you watch them play at all? Devin was lazy, Hill couldn't dribble and Noel
Nov 9, 2023, 8:18 PM
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Yes, I watched. So Brownell has no control of how his players play? No say in the development of their physical skills or even their discipline on the court? You’re not helping your cause.
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Legend [16158]
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If they were so great, why did OP leave them after a year?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: If they were so great, why did OP leave them after a year?***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:28 PM
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Was there an answer to my question in there?
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Legend [16158]
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Oh, I've already given you the answer...You just can't accept it...That class
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:33 PM
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was 50% below ACC caliber players...Neither of the transfers did squat after transferring...The entire class was propped up by Milt, who was clearly not an actual 5* talent, regardless of where he was rated
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Oh, I've already given you the answer...You just can't accept it...That class
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:45 PM
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So you are taking it was just Brad’s dumb luck that he inherited some of the most poorly evaluated players in the history of rankings? And that he maximized the possibilities those players offered and the product we got on the floor in 2010-11 thru 2012-13 was as good as could be expected under the circumstances?
I’m also curious if you’re willing to call Brad a liar as casually as you throw the word around here. He was emphatic it wasn’t a rebuild. Spoke to the quality of the roster. And said he had taken over an established program and done a rebuild and that this was definitely the former. So, while expressing just how terrible those players were - I’d like you to realize you’re calling Brownell a liar.
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Legend [16158]
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They weren't his players, he didn't sign them...Why is he blamed for their
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:53 PM
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evaluations?
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Legend [16921]
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Re: They weren't his players, he didn't sign them...Why is he blamed for their
Nov 9, 2023, 8:58 PM
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Seriously, did you get into college? ### with your completely lack of reading skills. I said it was just bad luck that he inherited the worst evaluated? Not that he was responsible for the evaluations. That is your point right. They were all evaluated wrong. Ranging from complete bust to significantly below their ranking? That’s not some very special bad luck?
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Legend [16158]
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Did you watch Milt for 4 years and think he was a 5 star recruit? Did you see
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Nov 10, 2023, 12:35 AM
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what Hill did at ODU and what Johnson did at Auburn? Which recruit did the evaluators get right?
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Did you watch Milt for 4 years and think he was a 5 star recruit? Did you see
Nov 10, 2023, 2:22 AM
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Why can’t you just say that you think Brownell is a poor, little victim and you’re here to defend him. I think all those players passed through Brownell’s hands. I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that they all under performed their projections. It’s fine if you do. It’s weird that you won’t just put a bow on it and say - “ Brad Brownell was the victim of historically bad player rankings “. That’s all you have to do.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/18/03
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Do you think Donte Hill was an ACC caliber player?***
Nov 10, 2023, 2:24 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page ] |
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Noel johnson's best season in his collegiate career was his SR year where he started 5 games for a terrible Auburn team and averaged 4.8 points again. He never panned out at the collegiate level. Are you arguing otherwise?
I guess purnell was a god awful coach too considering milton Jennings only averaged 3 ppg while shooting 17% from 3 and 64% from the line his freshman year. Surely if he had a better coach, he would have put up better numbers being that he was a mcdonalds all american and the highest rated recruit we have ever signed.
Devin Booker ended up an all acc player, so i would say he panned out.
Of course brownell "ran off" donte hill. His best season he averaged 8 ppg on a 5-25 old dominion team.
Get outta here with this BS.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
Nov 9, 2023, 7:23 PM
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Just to be clear:
Brownell himself was wrong about his evaluation of the talent he was inheriting.
Brownell had the dumb luck that our highest ranked recruiting class were all busts.
Player development is not a coaching responsibility.
Player retention is not a coach responsibility.
Milton Jennings averaging .29 pts .04 steals .04 assists and .02 blocks per minute as a true freshman = BAD COACH
Milton Jennings averaging .35 pts .03 steals .06 assists and .03 blocks per minute as a senior = GOOD COACH (who maximized both the development and utilization of the player)
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 10, 2023, 6:43 AM
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Lmao, you are an extremwly biased and pathetic "fan" that hopes our team loses because you hate brownell so much. It is very sad.
Do you think donte hill or noel johnson ever panned out at the collegiate level? They both underperformed with every coach they had at the collegiate level. I know you wont answer this question because you are a coward, but always worth asking.
And let me get this straight. You believe that milton jennings was an accurately rated 5*, and if brownell wasnt his coach, he would have performed at a 5* level and potentially made the nba? I wonder why he was such a bad shooter under purnell? I wonder why he never really figured out FTs or 3 pointers in his 3 seasons at the low level professional basketball overseas? Is it all brownell's fault? Your take on milton jennings is absolutely laughable and shows your extreme bias. It's really hard to take you seriously when speaking of basketball.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
Nov 11, 2023, 1:44 PM
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I asked you a series of questions and you couldn’t bring yourself to answer a single one? And every one of them is a logical conclusion based on your assertions. If you choose to answer those questions I will be happy to answer any resultant questions you may have.
And I don’t “hope we lose” or “hate Brownell”. These are both outright lies unsubstantiated by anything I’ve posted. If you going to make attacks based on sincere differences of opinion I’d love to see you condemn Judge Keller for his far more inflammatory attacks against our football coach. Your hypocrisy on this makes it very difficult to believe the sincerity of your position on the topic.
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Orange Blooded [2480]
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Hate replying to your threads since you have all of us blocked
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7
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Nov 8, 2023, 11:17 PM
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But 65% of brownells recruits will transfer. You should know that.
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110%er [5014]
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^^^ EXACTLY ^^^***
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Nov 9, 2023, 6:56 AM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Hate replying to your threads since you have all of us blocked
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to Hate replying to your threads since you have all of us blocked ] |
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Please put some data behind your bogus number.
Never understood why the haters have to lie and exaggerate to make brownell look worse than they believe he already is. If he is so bad, then why are you constantly lying about stats and numbers to try and prove that he us bad.
We have rarely lost anyone to anything other than lack of playing time.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Hate replying to your threads since you have all of us blocked
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:16 PM
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This is an all-time pot calls kettle black post.
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Legend [16158]
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Whatever you say Basketball Tyler***
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Nov 9, 2023, 6:05 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Whatever you say Basketball Tyler***
Nov 9, 2023, 6:25 PM
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I don’t think you understand the term.
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Legend [16158]
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Oh no Tyler, I absolutely understand why you are the basketball
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:01 PM
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equivalent
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Oh no Tyler, I absolutely understand why you are the basketball
Nov 9, 2023, 8:20 PM
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It takes an actual Tyler to think there is any equivalence between criticism of those coaches. And I certainly haven’t engaged in the personal attacks you seem so comfortable being directed at our football coach.
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Legend [16158]
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Link to the personal attacks I directed at Dabo? You said it, now prove it
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:26 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Link to the personal attacks I directed at Dabo? You said it, now prove it
Nov 9, 2023, 8:31 PM
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You have serious literacy issues. I didn’t say you said it. I said you’re comfortable with it. And who you choose to attack on the board and why speak to it. In all of this thread, you haven’t addressed a single fact about Brownell. It’s entirely personal attacks and attacks against the recruits he inherited. You need to read your own post history if you have any doubt of the veracity of that assertion.
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Legend [16158]
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So you can't prove your accusation again? Classic Vizfib***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:34 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: So you can't prove your accusation again? Classic Vizfib***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:47 PM
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You’re asking me to prove a negative which is a logical fallacy. I didn’t say the very thing you’re asking me to prove. It’s preposterous and speaks to your complete lack of critical thinking skills.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Why do you feel so comfortable attacking our basketball coach and then
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:50 PM
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whining about me doing whatever it is you think I did to Dabo?
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Legend [16158]
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Of the two of us, it's you that has personally directed attacks at a
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to So you can't prove your accusation again? Classic Vizfib*** ] |
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Tiger Coach...I have no idea why you feel so comfortable accusing me of something you personally have done...But you ARE a hypocrite so I guess that would explain it
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Of the two of us, it's you that has personally directed attacks at a
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:54 PM
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Presenting facts about his tenure - generally only offered when JK or ClemMountaineers lie (an offense that seems to cause you selective outrage) about those facts - is not a personal attack. I’ve never attacked his faith. I don’t question his character. Hell, I don’t even think he’s a bad basketball coach. I just think our aspirations should be higher than what he have accepted for this basketball program.
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Legend [16158]
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No, you personally attacked him...period***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:56 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Link or youre lying
Nov 9, 2023, 9:01 PM
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That’s your favorite move right. Except you actually are lying. You don’t even know why you get in these fights do you? Just enterteinament? Caused you’ve demonstrated beyond question that you have zero character.
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Legend [16158]
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A Tyler is going to question MY character? Ooooh that's rich***
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Nov 10, 2023, 12:30 AM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: A Tyler is going to question MY character? Ooooh that's rich***
Nov 10, 2023, 2:18 AM
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I’m not questioning it.
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Legend [16158]
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You certainly don't have the high ground here...Not after all the lies you've
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Nov 10, 2023, 2:21 AM
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been caught in
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110%er [7535]
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#### Bender is long time Clemson man. Donolon has ties with Grant
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Nov 9, 2023, 12:22 AM
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Actually I wanted insight into our asst coaches. Seems like they have past ties to Clemson, something some fans are negative about. There are others on staff tied to Clemson too.
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110%er [9193]
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its been his most impressive class
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Nov 9, 2023, 6:18 AM
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He’s always been a good X’s and O’s Coach (defense especially), recruiting and bringing in talent was always the knock on him (even though I always thought he did good, not great in the portal). Excited to see what he can do with some top end talent.
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Team Captain [488]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:06 AM
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Judge ,
I think you’ll agree brownell will be judged on W-L’s. At this point nothing else is relevant.
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All-In [44055]
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Recruiting is something many people here routinely criticize him for.
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Nov 9, 2023, 11:17 AM
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Everyone should be encouraged with the uptick in recruiting recently, coupled with our continued good use of the transfer portal.
Of course wins and losses are the ultimate metric, but surely we can enjoy recruiting success in basketball just as we do other Clemson sports.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Recruiting is something many people here routinely criticize him for.
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:18 PM
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Recently? We were 13th and 12th overall in the ACC the last two years. And that includes transfers.
2024 - 3/? - 4/4
2023 - 1/3- 14/13
2022 - 4/1 - 10/12
2021 - 3 - 9
2020 - 3 - 4
2019 - 3 - 9
2018 - 3 - 10
2017 - 4 - 9
2016 - 1 - 15
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All-TigerNet [10492]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it?????
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Nov 9, 2023, 7:17 AM
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Heh, heh, heh. check it out. coot boy thinks he might have missed something? Let’s give him three more years, maybe he’ll discover gravity.
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All-In [27374]
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One thing for certain
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:01 AM
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I’ll be supporting him and his players the entire season. After all …it IS Clemson.
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Legend [18858]
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Re: One thing for certain
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:20 AM
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I will be supporting Clemson basketball and will watch probably all of the games. That does not mean that I cannot be disappointed when and if we fail to again, like the last 14 years, fall to an opponent we should have beaten or lack the coaching to adjust during a game.
Over this time I have heard how Brad is an X's and O's coach. I do not remember any other college teams that consistently have long droughts of scoring and it happens to us a lot.
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All-In [44055]
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In college basketball
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Nov 9, 2023, 11:18 AM
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all teams go on long scoring droughts at times, and all teams lose games they shouldn't.
You should know this.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: In college basketball
Nov 9, 2023, 5:25 PM
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Except they don’t go on such droughts with the regularity Brad does:
Clemson under Brad
Average ACC Finish - 7th
Average RPI - 84
Average RPI rank - 10
Average Q3+4 Losses - 3.1
Average Q3+4 Losses Rank - 11
How this measures up against League:
Average RPI for teams finishing 7th - 61
Brownell % over RPI by league finish - 38%
Average Q3+4 Losses by League - 2.6
Brownell % over average Q3+4 losses - 19%
Avg Q3+Q4 by ACC avg Quad 2 teams - 2.3
Brownell % over Q3+4 losses by avg quad 2 teams - 35%
Place Deviation for Q3+4 losses versus ACC rank - -4 (worst in the league)
Place Deviation for RPI versus ACC rank- -3 (tied worst in league)
Average Q3+4 losses by ACC 7th place team (excluding Clemson) - 1
Brownell % over Q3+Q4 losses by ACC Rank - 210%
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Legend [16263]
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Thrilled to see him bring in such a highly rated class.
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:02 AM
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Personally I've always thought Brownell recruited fairly well - he's averaged close to the 40th-ranked class over the past five years. It's finishing with a 75th average final ranking over that span that has generated the disappointment - not coaching the team up to a level equal to or greater than the sum of its parts so consistently.
Your constant attacks on program funding and such to me have been slights on the players, i.e. our players today aren't good enough to win because Brad doesn't have enough resources to work with. Hopefully in this 2nd year his higher paid assistants can help him perform at a level more commensurate with the talent on hand. That would be a most welcome change for the basketball fans among us.
Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Lets see how many develop and stay before you brag.
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:30 AM
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Winning matters.
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All-In [38124]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:37 AM
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Just make it to the NCAA tournament, and maybe actually win a game (or 2).
Go Tigers!!!
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All-In [27193]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:40 AM
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That's right, JK---nobody in college basketball does less with moar.
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All-In [44055]
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LOL, you have it backwards.
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Nov 9, 2023, 11:20 AM
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Brownell consistently does more with less.
If we want to talk about doing less with more, there are other examples of that on campus.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: LOL, you have it backwards.
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Nov 9, 2023, 12:56 PM
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False:
Clemson under Brad
Average ACC Finish - 7th
Average RPI - 84
Average RPI rank - 10
Average Q3+4 Losses - 3.1
Average Q3+4 Losses Rank - 11
How this measures up against League:
Average RPI for teams finishing 7th - 61
Brownell % over RPI by league finish - 38%
Average Q3+4 Losses by League - 2.6
Brownell % over average Q3+4 losses - 19%
Avg Q3+Q4 by ACC avg Quad 2 teams - 2.3
Brownell % over Q3+4 losses by avg quad 2 teams - 35%
Place Deviation for Q3+4 losses versus ACC rank - -4 (worst in the league)
Place Deviation for RPI versus ACC rank- -3 (tied worst in league)
Average Q3+4 losses by ACC 7th place team (excluding Clemson) - 1
Brownell % over Q3+Q4 losses by ACC Rank - 210%
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All-In [27193]
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Re: LOL, you have it backwards.
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:16 PM
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Don't bother him with actual stats.....he's too busy guzzling Brownlee's kool-aid and preparing his excuses for yet another failed season.
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All-In [44055]
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Im sorry youre predicting a failed season just one game in.
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:55 PM
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I believe we will do much better than you predict.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 9:31 AM
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It's great we are no longer stealing recruits from Akron.
Now let's see him win games against Q4 opponents.
Talent doesn't seem to be the problem...
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 11:09 AM
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Fortunately he only plays 4 this year (at least based on last year’s standings). Minimizing the opportunities for terrible losses is a key to success that Brad didn’t figure out until season 14. Unless this is just dumb luck.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 1:04 PM
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Good thing that last year was an extreme outlier as we had not lost to a low quality opponent similar to the ones last year for the 6 years prior.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
Nov 9, 2023, 4:47 PM
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Way to thumbs up a lie CM Shack®. We had 7 quad 3 losses over the preceding 6 seasons. That is lifted directly from NCAA team sheets.
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CU Guru [1750]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
Nov 9, 2023, 12:22 PM
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Bout dang time we get a decent class... hopefully they pan out.
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Orange Blooded [2453]
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The real question is, "Will a #17 recruiting class yield a...
Nov 9, 2023, 12:26 PM
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top 68 team at the end of the season?"
If Dabo follows through with his promise that everybody has a 25-day timeframe to prove themselves, then we should promote him to athletic director so that he can TCB in the basketball program.
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 12:48 PM
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Basketball sucks. Who cares? I'd rather watch birds on a powerline take a crap. Congrats I guess. Won't matter because Brown L does so much less with more than other coaches.
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All-In [44055]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32968
Joined: 2/22/03
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Tell us you don't know much about basketball
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Nov 10, 2023, 9:55 AM
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without telling us you don't know much about basketball.
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Orange Blooded [3559]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2978
Joined: 9/17/22
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
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Nov 9, 2023, 4:24 PM
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Love to see Judge back in business.
THAT TIME OF YEAR
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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In case anyone is buying what hes selling
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Nov 9, 2023, 5:14 PM
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Recruiting per 247
Year - recruit/transfer - ACC recruit rank/overall rank
2024 - 3/? - 4/4
2023 - 1/3- 14/13
2022 - 4/1 - 10/12
2021 - 3 - 9
2020 - 3 - 4
2019 - 3 - 9
2018 - 3 - 10
2017 - 4 - 9
2016 - 1 - 15
So, he has been here before. 4th in ACC in 2020. Imagine if we hadn’t run off 2/3rds of that class. And he has 12 and 13 overall classes in the last 3 years which is after facility improvements.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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"We ran them off" or they left for more PT?***
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Nov 9, 2023, 6:00 PM
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: "We ran them off" or they left for more PT?***
Nov 9, 2023, 6:24 PM
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If his best rated recruits left for more playing time that’s the result of conscientious decisions by the coach. He decided not to invest playing time in his highly regarded young players. So yes, “run off”. Can you just tell me a single thing you actually hold Brownell accountable for?
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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well, we can add "run off" to the list of things you don't know***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:04 PM
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: well, we can add "run off" to the list of things you don't know***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:24 PM
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It is one of your most charming qualities that you love to redirect threads into pedantic arguments about words and then believe you have absolute authority over the meaning of colloquial expressions. It is not at all psychopathic.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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Yes, when people say incorrect statements I tend to focus on that***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:28 PM
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: Yes, when people say incorrect statements I tend to focus on that***
Nov 9, 2023, 8:48 PM
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If only you would direct that standard inward.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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If only you didn't make incorrect statements and then refuse to admit it***
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Nov 9, 2023, 8:55 PM
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: If only you didn't make incorrect statements and then refuse to admit it***
Nov 9, 2023, 9:03 PM
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Incorrect statements like:
247 recruiting data
NCAA Team Sheet Data for the last 13 seasons
Cambridge Dictionary meaning use of the phrase “run off”
Let me know what I’m missing.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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link to the tweets where Keller specifically told recruits not to come to
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Nov 10, 2023, 12:32 AM
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Clemson
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: link to the tweets where Keller specifically told recruits not to come to
Nov 10, 2023, 2:17 AM
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I never allege get that - that is your lie. As usual. It’s your entire m.o. on this board. Make #### up then dare people to prove it wrong which is, of course, impossible. Good work if you can get. Liar.
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Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
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Nope , you accused him of doing the same thing nctig did***
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Nov 10, 2023, 2:25 AM
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Legend [16921]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10775
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: Nope , you accused him of doing the same thing nctig did***
Nov 10, 2023, 6:46 AM
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No, I didnt. Where’s the link? You’ve started one too many flame war and have no idea who you’re talking or what you’re talking about anymore.
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CU Guru [1277]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1042
Joined: 7/5/04
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It appears he got it right on the recruiting trail
Nov 9, 2023, 6:41 PM
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Now hopefully he will be able to develop and coach these recruits well. Time will tell
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All-In [44055]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32968
Joined: 2/22/03
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He already develops and coaches well.***
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Nov 10, 2023, 9:55 AM
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All-In [25011]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 32322
Joined: 2/15/09
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how does this thread have this many replies?***
Nov 10, 2023, 12:38 AM
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Orange Blooded [4820]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6169
Joined: 9/16/06
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Re: Perhaps I missed it, but I didnt see a story on the front page
Nov 11, 2023, 1:45 PM
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Thanks for posting this, great to hear!
Just stop with the hateful attitude against the FB program…
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