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Scout Team [158]
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I know I will get dismissed because I am a Gamecock, but
May 22, 2012, 8:37 PM
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I think it would be a mistake for Clemson to go to the Big 12. From experience, South Carolina floundered for many years when it left the ACC. We were lucky to get in the SEC. UGA has always been a rival, but it has took a long time to develop other rivalries with UF, UT, UK etc.
It's not all about money and even though the SEC is up right now (in football) and the ACC is struggling, it will not stay that way forever. Clemson, VT, FSU, Miami and even Ga Tech and Pitt have fan bases to have top 10 programs. It is cyclical. I wouldn't trade the SEC for the ACC now, but I would have when we first got in the conference because I missed all the old rivalries.
It will be even harder for Clemson to develop rivalries with Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma etc.
This is just my opinion, but I really think you guys are letting a TV contract cloud your view of what you have. I really think you will regret it if you make the move. If we (South Carolina) were forced to leave the SEC and go to another conference, I would choose the ACC over any other conference because of the regional rivalries. The money is great, but it's not everything.
That's my two cents, bash away.
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Orange Blooded [2139]
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Great post.*
May 22, 2012, 8:40 PM
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*
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110%er [6241]
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I think you are dead on. The ONLY way we should go to...
May 22, 2012, 8:42 PM
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the Big 12 is if a ton of other southern teams join us. FSU, GT, Louisville, VT.
Otherwise it would be idiotic.
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110%er [6987]
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That's the plan. 4 conferences are heading to 16 teams...
May 22, 2012, 9:06 PM
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each. Only a matter of time.
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110%er [6865]
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Re: I know I will get dismissed because I am a Gamecock, but
May 22, 2012, 8:42 PM
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First of all, Clemson is infinitely better off than the coots where when they joined the sec. Secondly, the hope is that many of our regional rivalries will come with us when we go. Aside from that, too bad - Id rather lose the rivalries that keep them and be relegated to a virtual IAA league.
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CU Medallion [54048]
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What Rivalries? Out of the twelve games we played last year,
May 22, 2012, 9:55 PM
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I would consider 4 of them rivalries and two were with SEC teams, Auburn and South Carolina. The others were FSU and GT, both of which may come with us and possibly a 5th one was VT. But I really don't consider any of the other schools in the ACC rivals. I mean, it just doesn't eat at my craw when we lose to UNC,WAKE,MD,BC,Virgina,State,etc. Nor do I get a huge lift when we beat them.
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Rock Defender [66]
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Re: What Rivalries? Out of the twelve games we played last year,
May 22, 2012, 10:12 PM
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I agree- and that's going to be even more the case in the future with the addition of Syracuse and Pitt.
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110%er [5436]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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There is a Tnet rule that if any coot post is more
May 22, 2012, 8:43 PM
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than 2 sentences then we don't read the post. So whatever you said, I'm sure it was good, yeah right lol
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Oculus Spirit [82025]
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He's the juggar naut, b1tch.***
May 22, 2012, 8:44 PM
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Varsity [218]
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Jugger Knot! It's Jugger Knot!***
May 22, 2012, 8:55 PM
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110%er [7219]
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Re: Jugger Knot! It's Jugger Knot!***
May 22, 2012, 9:04 PM
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He's the Jugger..... NOT!
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Orange Blooded [2220]
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answers
May 22, 2012, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to There is a Tnet rule that if any coot post is more ] |
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number 1...South Carolina became an independent when it left the ACC ....thus the floundering..maybe a flirtation with the old Metro....
number 2....it is obvious from the lack of gamecock lurkers this week....you guys are a bit taken aback that we would actually consider doing this...
number 3...we got a long way to go....we don't leave a conference just because a pep band sang "Amen"!
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Legend [15908]
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I am sure that most of you don't want us to go to the
May 22, 2012, 8:49 PM
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Big XII. It's going to suck having the one thing you have over us, better football conference, jerked out from under you. I'd also rather my rival bring in 8-10 million less per year than us...Nice try.
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110%er [6987]
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Money and the divide between the haves and have nots....
May 22, 2012, 9:05 PM
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is alot different now than in 1992. Although you may wish to stay, you can't if your conference is becoming irrelevant. The current $$ gaps between conferences will only compound and widen the gap each and every year that passes, making the cyclical chance to catch up disappear. Clemson must do what is best to compete with the best and they must do it now as waiting will make it harder to catch up.
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: I am sure that most of you don't want us to go to the
May 23, 2012, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to I am sure that most of you don't want us to go to the ] |
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Of the last 10 years in mens baseball, football and basketball the SEC has won 13 of 30 championships with 6 schools winning at least one championship. The Big 12 has 4 of those 30 with 75% of those coming from the University of Texas and the schools they are looking to add will add 0 to that number. No other conference has 2 member institutions with a championship in each of those sports. I think the SEC holds a bit of an edge, but you keep thinking what you want to about that.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: I am sure that most of you don't want us to go to the
May 23, 2012, 8:58 AM
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oh you forgot the chant!!!!!!
SEC SEC SEC
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Enthusiast [115]
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Re: I am sure that most of you don't want us to go to the
May 23, 2012, 9:03 AM
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So is that really the best argument you can muster to dispute my point? You should have just stayed in bed today it that's the case.
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All-TigerNet [14009]
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I bet you do think it would be a mistake.
May 22, 2012, 8:49 PM
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Who in the #### thumbs up this sheet.
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Oculus Spirit [82025]
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I did, because he's correct.***
May 22, 2012, 8:50 PM
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Legend [15757]
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Me too. ******
May 22, 2012, 8:59 PM
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All-In [39020]
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In what way?
May 22, 2012, 9:03 PM
[ in reply to I did, because he's correct.*** ] |
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We take FSU with us. WVU is a ready-made rivalry, especially from our end. Kansas State will become a rivalry as long as they continue to do well. Kansas and Iowa State won't be rivalries until they improve or we lose to them.
If we get OU as a crossover, I think their fans would also embrace Clemson as a friendly rival. They have, in large part, a low-key, knowledgable, traditional fan base.
He's right about conference strength being cyclical, but only if the other conferences don't let the SEC get too far away with regards to money. The ACC has shown throughout history and this expansion process that it doesn't view itself as a football conference, whereas the Big XII have made it clear that football leads the way. The top basketball programs do turn a profit, but it isn't as large, either in actuality or possibility, as football.
Without regional issues, Clemson is a far better fit for the Big XII. Even with those issues, I'd say it's even. When you take the money into account, there's no question in my mind what Clemson's best course of action is.
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Oculus Spirit [82025]
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I've expressed my opinions in another thread,
May 22, 2012, 9:05 PM
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too lazy to continue beating a dead horse.
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All-In [39020]
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It took a long time for you to develop rivalries
May 22, 2012, 8:56 PM
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because it's hard to develop a rivalry while getting your ### handed to you. Nobody cared about beating Wake Forest until 2004.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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beat me to it...
May 22, 2012, 9:03 PM
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point
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1st Rounder [649]
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The old rule of thumb is if your rival likes it......
May 22, 2012, 8:58 PM
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it can't be good for YOU!
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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difficult to form rivialries...
May 22, 2012, 8:58 PM
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when you lose to everyone.
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All-In [49613]
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Since reasoned Capon thought should be rewarded.....
May 22, 2012, 9:00 PM
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The circumstances between y'all joining the SEC and us eying the Big 12 are too far apart to be compared. UCS was floundering as some sort of Metro-mutant. Y'all were set on floundering for quite some time, no matter what.
Clemson, OTOH, is considering leaving to prevent future floundering, at least on our part. We have come to realize the overlords of the ACC see football as something to keep their basketball powers alive. They are the walking bosses, getting fat off our efforts with no plan to help.
It IS about money, both the increased money in the Big 12 and the face that for years and years, the blue-bellied overlords have belittled us while we propped up their palace. And if we agreed to stay with FSU leaving, Pharoah Swofford would only come back wanting us to make bricks without straw.
It is time for us to part Lake Harwell and being our Exodus. Emotionally there are tears to be shed, but no regrets. If things have indeed been as lopsided as explained, this was a long time coming.
And for us taking along time to build new rivalries: it took exactly two games for Clemson and A&M to discover our common ground. BC felt an immediate kinship with Clemson. TCU folks can't wait to come back to the Valley.
Unlike the Cockroach, there's something in these hills that draw people back ... especially if they come from a land that doesn't have hills.
Thank you for you reasoned thoughts, but we'll be fine. I promised.
And we still owe y'all something fierce this November.
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Orange Blooded [2429]
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Re: Since reasoned Capon thought should be rewarded.....
May 22, 2012, 9:08 PM
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Dayum preach it Rev- I'm ready for the JIHAD!
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All-In [49613]
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May be an Exodus before Gee-Haw'd!
May 22, 2012, 9:10 PM
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After all, we'll be wandering out in the western wilderness for a while....
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110%er [7219]
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CU Medallion [55703]
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Re: Since reasoned Capon thought should be rewarded.....
May 22, 2012, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Since reasoned Capon thought should be rewarded..... ] |
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Always believe that Rev will always put a pleasant chit smearing in your face when you come calling as I'm a sicksucking fan. I know I know I hit the S when it should have been the D
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Orange Blooded [2139]
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Rev, you're a good man...
May 22, 2012, 10:00 PM
[ in reply to Since reasoned Capon thought should be rewarded..... ] |
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I do want to take issue with some of your post though.
If you think that dealing with the North Carolina power brokers in this conference is a hassle, wait 'til you get a load of that Texas group. If you think you're the red-headed stepchild right now, I think you're in for the shock of your lives when you join up with Texas & OU and all their little children.
What the ACC needs is more effective leadership at the top. We have a good nucleus of really good schools, and while football is currently weak, it won't be that way forever.
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All-In [49613]
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I'm just a son of Clemson, no more or less...
May 22, 2012, 10:10 PM
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...and I generally agree it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
That said, the realization of just how blatant Pharoah and his minions were bleeding FSU and Clemson for so many year, and how little (read nothing) they were willing to do about it when called on it left no viable option.
Once they discovered how to feed their gluttonous appetite for basketball with someone else's money, they didn't want to right the ship. And they aren't going away.
Therein lies the option: do you stay with an abusive spouse who shows no remorse and no indication to change ... or step out an show the world who you are and what you can do.
One of the endearing things about Clemson is love of family and trust. In this case, that trust was shamelessly abused beyond the point of reclamation.
FWIW, they were and are doing the same thing to your Jackets. How y'all are able to stomach it now is a mystery far greater than why we decide to leave.
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Team Captain [464]
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Good points,
May 22, 2012, 9:01 PM
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but, if things start happening, and we don't make a move, we could be left behind to irrelevancy. None of us want that.
I may be selfish wanting the move just to see some new schools come in here and get out from under the ACC, but stiffer competition will force Clemson to get better.
South Carolina was the SEC's Duke, and they were forced to step it up or stay in the cellar. Guess what? They did. We will too. I'm sick and tired of sweating into the 4th quarter against teams we should be hammering. If all of this plays out and we do move, we won't be able to get away with out-talenting everyone we play. Our toughest game is often FSU. We play them tough every year. Then we go out and crap the bed against Wake. Or Duke. Or whoever we should beat by 3 TDs.
It will be good for us, and make Clemson football a better product.
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CU Guru [1221]
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But, would you stay if FSU, VT, NC State, etc left?
May 22, 2012, 9:04 PM
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Clemson could all but kiss football goodbye if that happened. What 4 star recruit, much less 5 star recruit, is going to want to play in a conference where football plays second fiddle to basketball?
There's a reason players like CJ Spiller, Sammy Watkins, Marcus Lattimore and Jadaveon Clowney don't sign with schools like So. Miss or East Carolina. It's because they want to play football at the top level. Football in the ACC has been on a steady decline over the past several years, and there is no sign of that letting up with the basketball centric folks in North Carolina.
If Clemson is left behind by the only other "football" schools in the ACC, its recruiting will suffer and ultimately the football program will be no different than an ECU or Marshall. ...which is probably why you want Clemson to remain in the ACC.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Good Points. I Cannot
May 22, 2012, 9:40 PM
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imagine the terribleness of seeing cobwebs all over a ghostly Memorial Stadium during football season.
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CU Medallion [55703]
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Re: Good Points. I Cannot
May 22, 2012, 9:46 PM
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You are sooo right. As I said in a post a couple weeks ago. If TDP and our B O Ts screw this up. The only construction you will see at Clemson will be Bull Dozers taring down the FB stadium. Because we won't need it anymore. Or no more than a 4th of it anyway.
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All-Conference [427]
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You make nice points but are dead wrong. $$$ is everything.
May 22, 2012, 9:05 PM
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In today's world of college athletics being pimped to the highest paying pimp (ESPN), money controls everything. You guys would be nothing if you weren't in the SEC and I mean that with all due respect. Without that extra $10 million a year, you wouldn't have the investment in sports, paying coaches millions of dollars, or anywhere near the facilities that you do now. That payout will continue to make the gap larger between the SEC, Big 12, Big 10 vs the others.
College football controls the $$$ and the ACC has not shown any initiative to stay in the big leagues. While I don't get into all of the conspiracy of Swofford, it is obvious that Clemson and a few others are not fitting in with the new conference.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Sounds good in theory but the way the conferences
May 22, 2012, 9:30 PM
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are maneuvering, when the dust settles, the ACC might not be at the table with a chance to play for a National Championship. If that happens, recruiting dies and teams left in the ACC will be like former teams from the WAC, Mtn. West, etc... No one here wants that. The stakes are too hight to pur our faith in Swofford and the ACC hierarchy.
And as long as we're competitive, we'll develop rivalries. We'll still have USeC and FSU and I can already feel a strong hatred for Ok State.
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CU Medallion [54048]
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Thirteen coots on Tigernet agree. But, I agree that your
May 22, 2012, 9:44 PM
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opinion is worth exactly what you say it is.
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CU Medallion [54048]
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Thirteen coots on Tigernet agree. But, I agree that your
May 22, 2012, 9:47 PM
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opinion is worth exactly what you say it is.
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Orange Blooded [3821]
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BIG Difference SCAR was ECU when you joined the SEC
May 22, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Clemson just won the ACC.
SCAR had exactly ONE Bowl win.
Clemson is a national brand.
We relish the challenge not cowering from it.
Do you really think Clemson will have a WINLESS season years after joining the Big 12.
Clemson doesn't tear down goalposts after beating New Mexico St.
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Orange Blooded [2535]
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First, get something straight:
May 23, 2012, 5:40 AM
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You're not a "gamecock". You're a "Coot."
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Amateur [40]
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Re: I know I will get dismissed because I am a Gamecock, but
May 23, 2012, 7:44 AM
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i am a coot and what i love about College football is its regional...... i didnt like the two teams the SEC added because of location. The ideal fit for Clemson would be the SEC( i hate saying that) but i think if Clemson wants to get back to the Danny Ford days of great defense and solid offense, then the SEC is were they should head. The big 12 is matched with high power offense and average defense. It would hurt us in recruiting for a little while if you guys were in the SEC but our state has plenty of good players to go around. whatever move you guys make, i hope it works out because i want both teams to be great when they play each other. it would be an awesome day in SC to see two undefeated teams play! 99 days till kickoff!!!!!!
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All-TigerNet [12270]
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dayum, a coot making sense! the myans may be right, the
May 23, 2012, 8:55 AM
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end is near! 
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