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Orange Blooded [4107]
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The Bush and Obama Adminstration did the right thing by....
Jul 11, 2012, 12:13 AM
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"bailing out" the auto industry. People seem to forget the auto bailout initiative was STARTED by Bush and continued under Obama. Could write a book about why its a good thing but anybody with a rudimentary understanding of economics would understand that it would have been an absolute disaster if the U.S. Car Industry died.
see this link
http://carloves.com/2012/02/02/the-truth-about-the-u-s-auto-bailout/
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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For sure. Easy to say: let 'em just shut down, but just
Jul 11, 2012, 6:38 AM
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think of all the middle class families this helped.
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All-In [34163]
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Middle class families are all union thugs.***
Jul 11, 2012, 7:58 AM
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All-In [31988]
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Anyone with a "rudimentary understanding of economics"...
Jul 11, 2012, 6:38 AM
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would know that GM going into bankruptcy does not equate to the "US car industry dying".
Also, it's inaccurate to call what happened under Bush admin and Obama admin the same "bailout" action. Bush provided approx. $25BB in emergency assistance to GM and Chrysler.
Obama provided a lot more money and the government took a stake in the companies. The government secured new union contracts and then GM WENT THROUGH BANKRUPTCY!
In other words, GM went through bankruptcy but instead of a judge handling the union contracts, the administration stepped up and took that part out of bankruptcy proceedings.
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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Hundreds of thousands of Michigan and Ohio residents
Jul 11, 2012, 8:00 AM
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in the middle class were helped to stay afloat by Obama's actions, right or wrong, wouldn't you say?
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All-In [31988]
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How so?***
Jul 11, 2012, 8:12 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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Saved many jobs***
Jul 11, 2012, 1:35 PM
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All-In [31988]
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I don't really see how it saved any jobs....
Jul 11, 2012, 3:25 PM
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please explain that to me.
GM went through BR and restructed anyways. How did the government intervening in the BR save many jobs?
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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You don't think the govt. infusing capital into GM
Jul 11, 2012, 9:21 PM
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saved jobs?
Who the hell was going to lend them money at market rates?
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Rock Defender [54]
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lol nobody***
Jul 11, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Orange Blooded [4107]
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You Did Not Want To Go Bankrupt In Late 2008 BECAUSE ...
Jul 11, 2012, 10:06 PM
[ in reply to I don't really see how it saved any jobs.... ] |
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You have to look at WHEN this was occurring... as you remember, during the last few quarters of the Bush Administration, the Banks "ran out of money" and we had to bail them out (so they say)... this would have been the worst time in the World to go bankrupt... because part of bankruptcy chapter 11, is a company recapitalises.... now, since there was no money, these Auto Companies would have been forced to liquidate, and firms like Bain Capitol would have been glad to help facilitate that! If these companies liquidated, many jobs lost, including many in the Upstate, since there are many auto suppliers here (a few anyway)... Now, the Gov steps in and plays the role of a bank, again, because the "real" banks had no money. The car companies in return have to pay it back... which I believe is done or almost done.
This link gives a good overview of chapter 11 bankruptcy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code
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110%er [7980]
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Re: The Bush and Obama Adminstration did the right thing by....
Jul 11, 2012, 7:43 AM
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It would not have died. This was a payoff to the unions.
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All-In [34163]
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Wouldn't have died? You base that on what?***
Jul 11, 2012, 7:57 AM
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All-In [31988]
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The fact that they went through bankruptcy anyway....
Jul 11, 2012, 8:13 AM
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and didn't die?
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110%er [7980]
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touché***
Jul 11, 2012, 8:14 AM
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All-In [34163]
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All-In [31988]
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What makes you think GM was planning for a...
Jul 11, 2012, 11:44 AM
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chapter 7 bankruptcy? I never heard any discussion on that or that that was even an option ever considered.
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All-In [34163]
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I have no idea.
Jul 11, 2012, 2:19 PM
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Point is that it doesn't prove anything to show that the unique bankruptcy it went through had a good result. It doesn't prove that it would have been okay regardless. In fact, the whole point of intervention was the thought that it would not turn out okay (unless you go with the it-was-all-for-the-unions conspiracy theory).
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All-In [31988]
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I do go with the "it was the unions" idea....
Jul 11, 2012, 3:24 PM
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it happens to the only line that makes any sense!
From a BR perspective, what did the government really do outside of allowing the unions to renegotiate their contracts outside of the courts?
It seems to me that was the only real difference in that Ch 11 and most other Ch 11's.
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All-In [34163]
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Not really.
Jul 11, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Another idea that makes sense is that the government was willing to take a really bad risk (which no one else would) on GM's assets for the sake of the industry. And the gamble actually won.
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Rock Defender [54]
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i thought based on shareprice the gamble was lost
Jul 11, 2012, 10:44 PM
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thats what i hear on spin tv anyway.
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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Rock Defender [54]
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You are so write.***
Jul 11, 2012, 7:44 AM
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All-TigerNet [11658]
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Re: The Bush and Obama Adminstration did the right thing by....
Jul 11, 2012, 12:07 PM
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GM and Chrysler going through bankruptcy would have killed them. Just like what happened to Delta and US Airways when they went through bankruptcy.
Oh wait........
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: The Bush and Obama Adminstration did the right thing by....
Jul 11, 2012, 10:20 PM
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didnt kill them but they shed a ####load of jobs.
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Orange Blooded [2240]
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WE CAN'T AFFORD IT...
Jul 11, 2012, 1:02 PM
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You libs don't get it! There is going to be a pay day someday!! We will not be able to forever "save" everybody in the name of helping the middle-class. WE ARE BROKE!!!$100 billion in the red each month under Obama! Bush or no other previous president comes close.
Saving the middle-class is not the role of the Federal government anyway. Many people have come to think things like that and that will be our downfall.
Example - Does 99 weeks of unemployment compensation give an incentive to find a job or to learn to live off of less and leech of the system? I say the later.
The auto companies should have had to go through the laws of the land according to bankruptcy - period! The whole thing was a payback to the unions. And guess what, their still going to fail unless they change just like the whole US economy unless our federal and state governments STOP spending money we don't have!
Why can liberals, republicans, conservatives, democrats, martians, and other aliens see this?!?!? Because they just don't think it will happen.
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110%er [7980]
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Agree completely
Jul 11, 2012, 1:06 PM
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it's not the governments job to supply funds to those without
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Orange Blooded [4107]
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Re: WE CAN'T AFFORD IT...
Jul 11, 2012, 1:25 PM
[ in reply to WE CAN'T AFFORD IT... ] |
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"Saving the middle-class is not the role of the Federal government..." Can you imagine what would happen if the middle class disapperared in the USA??? You would have a very small number of people controlling the vast majority of the wealth.... and millions and millions and millions of poor people ... in that situation, Empires Fall ....
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Aficionado [152]
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Re: WE CAN'T AFFORD IT...
Jul 11, 2012, 4:15 PM
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And that's what you end up with when the government gets more and more involved in the economy - a few wealthy controlling things and a bunch of poor people - reference the Soviet Union and Communist China. The only way to ensure a strong middle class is a free market economy, with as little government intervention as possible.
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Orange Blooded [4107]
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In theory, yes you are correct, BUT ....
Jul 11, 2012, 4:25 PM
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We seem to forget the "Greed Factor". With no regulations at all, the system is "gamed" and what ends up happening is our assets are sold off, jobs offshored all in the name of short term profit. Certain key industries need to be well regulated and PROTECTED since they are the key elements of the economy ....
The best model of how a economy SHOULD be run is the "German Model" (google it, por favor) ... BTW, Germans have a higher standard of living then us, and they have heavy industry, something that was discounted by our great economic theorists .... (I think it was a Wall Street Scam myself) .... going up and down I85, I see a lot of German owned manufacturing companies in SC...)
Message was edited by: OhWiseOne®
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110%er [8142]
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You'll never be able to convince all the self-proclaimed...
Jul 11, 2012, 4:34 PM
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... "capitalists" in this place that labor is anything other than a cost of doing business, to be minimized at every turn. They got their fables mixed up. They think a plutocracy is a sustainable economic model. They believe capital is the goose that laid the golden egg, but it's just the egg. The middle class is the goose, and as long as that goose is underfed, the eggs are going to be fewer and further between. But some of these economic experts won't realize that until they're being led to the guillotine.
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Oculus Spirit [83263]
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This part is stupid:
Jul 11, 2012, 6:36 PM
[ in reply to WE CAN'T AFFORD IT... ] |
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Example - Does 99 weeks of unemployment compensation give an incentive to find a job or to learn to live off of less and leech of the system? I say the later.
Do most people who receive unemployment have a mortgage and families?
Yes
The overwhelming majority of people who receive unemployment, only receive if for a few months.
Was your post tongue in cheek?
Do you really believe most people who receive unemployment stay on for the whole 99 weeks?
It's the same when nuts like you are complaining about welfair. Sure the systeme gets abused by many but the overall majority of recipients are temporary and there are millions of success stories.
Message was edited by: josephg®
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All-Pro [664]
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Let's start by ending the tax cuts we can't afford...
Jul 11, 2012, 10:26 PM
[ in reply to WE CAN'T AFFORD IT... ] |
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The list of wasteful spending is a mile long and has been for many many years. I was not a fan of Clinton, but times were good then. Higher taxes and Congress worked together and got things done. This do nothing Congress and hatred of Obama makes me sick. My gosh, work together and do something.
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Orange Blooded [4107]
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I bought a JEEP on July 4th !!!
Jul 11, 2012, 10:47 PM
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Brand New, I am a job creator !!!
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