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Orange Blooded [2258]
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quit blaming the refs
Mar 17, 2014, 11:34 AM
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For us not being in the big dance. If Rod Hall wouldn't have made that stupid pass under then rim we have a Victory. If KJ would have made both free throws when we needed them the most we would have gone in to ot. Should have beaten auburn and wake and notre dame but we didnt. Thats on them. We had a great season. Finished better than we were predicted. Looking forward the see the tigers run through the NIT and for what next year will bring.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Not the refs fault??
Mar 17, 2014, 11:35 AM
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CU Medallion [64621]
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Clearly no foul on that play (rolling eyes).***
Mar 17, 2014, 11:39 AM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Well obviously or otherwise
Mar 17, 2014, 11:40 AM
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the refs would've called the foul, right?
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CU Medallion [64621]
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You'd think.....
Mar 17, 2014, 11:45 AM
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especially since they just called the EXACT SAME foul on KJ at the opposite end of the court on the preceding play.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Wait you can't possibly be implying that
Mar 17, 2014, 11:47 AM
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the refs would be partial to dook and coach k?!? The very thought astounds me
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CU Medallion [68114]
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Re: You'd think.....that is what makes it so glaring
Mar 17, 2014, 11:52 AM
[ in reply to You'd think..... ] |
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call both or call neither.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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Agreed....
Mar 17, 2014, 12:04 PM
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I guess it's asking too much for the officials to be fair and impartial (at least in the ACC).
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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Let's assume the ACC refs ARE partial. Do you have a
Mar 17, 2014, 12:09 PM
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solution, or is it just more fun to bich and moan about it?
Should we leave the conference? Where do we go? Where do we get the $40MM to leave?
If Brad and DRad (who are much closer to the situation than us), think there is bias, then they need to take action. If they don't, the President or Board of Trustees need to intervene.
It all comes down to taking action on things we can control.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Can we fire dook?***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:10 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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We just fired Maryland. Can we fire UNC next?***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:13 PM
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CU Medallion [64621]
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We didn't fire Maryland. They quit***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:24 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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Well that's what was reported by the mainstream media.
Mar 17, 2014, 12:27 PM
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Who really knows?
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CU Medallion [64621]
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Part of the problem is, there is no accountability
Mar 17, 2014, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to Let's assume the ACC refs ARE partial. Do you have a ] |
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The refs totally botched three critical calls in two of Clemson's last three games two of which definitely cost Clemson a win while the other may have.
Coach BB can report his concers to the ACC head of officials but nothing ever gets done about it. There is ZERO accountability.
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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If BB reports his concerns and nothing gets done about it,
Mar 17, 2014, 12:26 PM
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is there an appeals process? I don't know, just asking.
Also, if other teams (FSU, Ga Tech, whoever) feel the same way, can we get together with them and petition the league office?
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All-In [26968]
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Every team feels that way after close losses,
Mar 17, 2014, 12:27 PM
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Including Duke and UNC.
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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Dood I know that. I'm just trying to get my point across to
Mar 17, 2014, 12:30 PM
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those who want to blame the refs, ACC, John Swofford, and the Pope for us not getting in the NCAA tournament.
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All-In [26968]
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Hey, I'm with ya. Personally, I can't stand the "blame" game
Mar 17, 2014, 12:39 PM
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So much happens over the course of a game, and season, to try to "blame" results on very specific events.
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All-In [35206]
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I blame Obama
Mar 17, 2014, 12:41 PM
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Most of the time it's valid
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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The people who are blaming others for our failures aren't
Mar 17, 2014, 12:43 PM
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going to be the ones to blame Obama for anything.
If ya know what I mean
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CU Guru [1163]
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All-In [26968]
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A turnover on the second possession of the game
Mar 17, 2014, 1:14 PM
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Potentially costs the team the same amount as a foul call with 1.2 seconds left.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: A turnover on the second possession of the game - no
Mar 17, 2014, 1:16 PM
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At the 2nd possession, no one, including officials have any idea what the outcome might be.
At the end of the game, the officials are fully aware of how their decisions will affect the outcome.
HUGE difference.
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All-In [26968]
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Definitely agree there is more pressure on officials
Mar 17, 2014, 1:19 PM
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late in games, for that reason.
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All-In [29042]
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Potentially, yes
Mar 17, 2014, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to A turnover on the second possession of the game ] |
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Practically, no.
As both teams temper their strategies and how they play based on the late game scenarios. A bad call/non-call late has a MUCH bigger impact because it does not give the same time for response that earlier plays/calls do.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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When is the last time a call or no-call by an ACC ref....
Mar 17, 2014, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to Every team feels that way after close losses, ] |
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cost either Duke or UNC a game.
If you have ever been to a game at Duke or UNC you know their fans whine and complain about all calls that go against them even when the calls are legitimate and it's because they are so accustomed to getting such favorable call from the ACC refs.
Duke and UNC fans bItching about ACC officiating is the epitome of hypocrisy.
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All-In [26968]
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Just saying, a lot depends on perspective, IMO.
Mar 17, 2014, 12:56 PM
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Particularly when you're dealing in subjectives.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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When you've been watching ACC basketball as long as I have..
Mar 17, 2014, 12:59 PM
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it's not a matter of perspective, it's reality.
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All-In [26968]
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I agree it is your reality.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:02 PM
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CU Medallion [64621]
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It is akin to $EC fans complaining....
Mar 17, 2014, 1:10 PM
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that the the teams in the league don't get enough favorable coverage from E$ecPN.
Of source, I suppose that is just my reality too.
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All-In [26968]
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Absolutely.***
Mar 17, 2014, 1:11 PM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Wow
Mar 17, 2014, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to It is akin to $EC fans complaining.... ] |
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this was some real good sirius rousing discussion.
Who knew bob could have some sirius and insightful insights besides just posting helpful links? He's a man of many hats, that bob is
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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I was told to up my game...
Mar 17, 2014, 1:19 PM
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now up yours.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Is it possible to improve upon perfection?
Mar 17, 2014, 1:20 PM
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Methinks not
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All-In [29042]
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I agree
Mar 17, 2014, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to Just saying, a lot depends on perspective, IMO. ] |
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I don't think there is a conspiracy here. I don't think the refs are thinking "Hmm, they are wearing blue, lets give them the calls."
However, I do think Friday night is a simple case of the "better" team getting the calls at the end of the game. And that has to be straightened out as all it does is punish the team who is thought to be not as good. The simple fact is that I can't see anyone legitimately arguing that the call/no-call at the end of the game is, in any way, fair. It punishes one team by a subjective measure they cannot control and rewards the other unduly.
I'm one of the few who didn't get terribly upset at the Pitt outcome. I think the shot was late, and the picture sure seems to show it, but I can understand the argument that the ball was out of his hands in time. I disagree with it, but I can get the fact that they may see it differently (or may have had a different angle leading them to a different conclusion).
But Friday night on back to back plays we saw one team get the "benefit of the doubt" on a foul late and the other team not get it. That is patently unfair and needs to be addressed.
And that isn't even considering Duke's next-to-last possession where their player took 5 or 6 steps on his drive. Luckily he missed the layup, but that, to me, is the worst non-call I've seen all year.
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All-In [26968]
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I do think good players get calls.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:10 PM
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Always have, and always will...LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Tom Glavine, Peyton Manning, etc. I don't think officials are purposefully trying to give preferential treatment...I think it's human nature when action is happening in split seconds, to lean toward the good player doing something good.
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All-In [29042]
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The problem with that
Mar 17, 2014, 1:13 PM
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KJ is considered one of the best players in the league this year. He is the defensive player of the year in the ACC. And yet he wasn't given that same benefit of the doubt on being called for the foul late.
And in the Pitt game he wasn't given the benefit of the doubt on being fouled on the inbounds pass even though he is considered one of the best offensive players in the league as well.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't disagree...I was talking more generally.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:17 PM
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Of course, there are always exceptions, both ways. Not sure the specifics apply as well here, because I don't know that Hood nor McDaniels has the cachet to enact that phenomenon.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: I don't disagree...I was talking more generally.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:19 PM
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What you said in this post says nothing... in general.
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All-In [26968]
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Pretty much like the 30,000 others, then.***
Mar 17, 2014, 1:20 PM
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All-In [29042]
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But I'm not talking about "better players get calls"
Mar 17, 2014, 1:23 PM
[ in reply to I don't disagree...I was talking more generally. ] |
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I'm arguing "certain teams get calls". And there is a wide difference between the two to me. Better players getting calls can often be based on "he wouldn't miss a shot that badly, he must've been fouled", or in our case "he's the ACC defensive player of the year, he wouldn't foul in that scenario".
Instead, the "better" team (Duke) got the benefit of the doubt in almost identical scenarios Friday night. That is something that simply must be addressed. It is patently unfair.
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All-In [26968]
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Eh, I'd have to think about that.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:26 PM
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It could be, particularly in the college ranks when the players are more anonymous.
Even if so, I'm not sure it's something you can "address," because the kind of phenomenon I'm referring to is human nature. You could "address" it by saying "try to call fewer fouls on good teams," but that doesn't seem right. The officials have to call it like they see it, in split second time frames.
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All-In [26968]
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Let me rephrase...
Mar 17, 2014, 1:26 PM
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You could address it by saying "try to call more fouls on the good teams".
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: Let me rephrase...
Mar 17, 2014, 1:28 PM
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er... no
If its a foul, call it whether the game is 2 seconds old... or has 2 seconds left.
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All-In [26968]
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Exactly...that's why I don't think addressing it in that way
Mar 17, 2014, 1:30 PM
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Would be prudent.
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All-In [29042]
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Well, it can be addressed
Mar 17, 2014, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to Eh, I'd have to think about that. ] |
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By simply having to answer why one is a foul and one isn't. That should factor into performance evaluations and that should be done, at least in part, in public or with some public report.
As it is now, nothing will be said or done about something which is clearly unfair.
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All-In [26968]
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At least, nothing will be said or done in public.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:29 PM
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I know MLB, for example, handles any evaluations or discipline of umpires in private, except in high profile cases (like a suspension). I guess it's up to the individual whether or not they trust that practice.
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All-In [29042]
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Well, I guess my distrust of it
Mar 17, 2014, 1:32 PM
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Is based primarily on me not seeing anything come of it.
Nothing will ever be said or done about the apparent unfairness of those two plays. Why would I trust something actually happened behind closed doors?
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CU Medallion [64621]
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Did you think Hall was fouled at the end of the Duke game?
Mar 17, 2014, 1:21 PM
[ in reply to I do think good players get calls. ] |
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Did you think KJ was fouled on the inbounds play at the end of the Pitt game?
Did you think the Pitt player got-off the shot before time expired?
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All-In [26968]
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1. No.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:22 PM
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2. Don't know, haven't seen that replay.
3. Don't know, and I don't think the officials did either. Thus, let it ride.
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All-In [29042]
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You don't think that was a foul on Hall's last drive?
Mar 17, 2014, 1:24 PM
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There is a clear picture of the defender's arm grabbing Hall's. Was it after he hit the ball? Yep, but still a foul you don't get free reign on the follow through.
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All-In [26968]
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There is clear picture of the two arms touching.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:27 PM
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Unless you're talking about another picture, it doesn't show any "grabbing". I am basing my view on the video replays I saw.
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All-In [29042]
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I get that
Mar 17, 2014, 1:30 PM
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In fact I argued there as no foul based on the two angles shown on the ESPN feed. From behind and above, it did appear to be a clean play. But from the baseline the defender does hit the ball and then continues down to the arm of Hall. It's a foul in every other minute of the game, and should be a foul no matter who is playing.
And if you are arguing the refs should be in "swallow the whistle" mode it just highlights the absurdity of the call on the other end 2 seconds earlier.
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All-In [26968]
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No, I just didn't think it was a foul.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:31 PM
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Has nothing to do with the time, player, score, etc.
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All-In [29042]
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My point is simple
Mar 17, 2014, 1:33 PM
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It is *at least* as much a foul as occurred on the other end of the court. I'm fine with either or neither being called. I just can't understand (other than simply saying "they blew it") how one can be called and the other not.
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All-In [26968]
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Well, I don't think I would have called the foul on Hood
Mar 17, 2014, 1:37 PM
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based on the replays I saw. (I do believe there was more substantial contact on that one than on the Hall drive. I just think Hood did most of the initiating of that contact, and I like no-calls in those scenarios.) But even with replay, I can't say it's an easy call one way or the other.
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CU Guru [1163]
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All-In [26968]
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I saw a replay from the other side of the play
Mar 17, 2014, 1:38 PM
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That showed very little contact. I think the Duke player got pretty much the ball.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: I saw a replay from the other side of the play
Mar 17, 2014, 1:39 PM
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I think a reach in is a reach in. Period.
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All-In [26968]
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The rules don't say anything about "reaching in".
Mar 17, 2014, 1:41 PM
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Conversely, there are rules against "holding" and "pushing". Don't think either of them happened in this case.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: The rules don't say anything about "reaching in".
Mar 17, 2014, 1:44 PM
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Commonly known as a reach in foul. Been around forever. I'm not going to either be personal or technical on that. There is no reason to be.
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All-In [26968]
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What is a "reach in" foul, then?***
Mar 17, 2014, 1:46 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Rule 10, Articles 2-3 apply here, potentially.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: The rules don't say anything about "reaching in". ] |
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Art. 2. A player shall not contact an opponent with his hand unless such contact
is only with the opponent’s hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an
attempt to play the ball.
Art. 3. A player shall not use his hand(s) on an opponent to inhibit the freedom
of movement of the opponent in any way.
The keys are that:
#1 - I believe the Duke player did get his hand on the ball
#2 - I don't believe the Duke player's contact impeded Hall's movement. That's probably the point we disagree on.
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Legend [16167]
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CU Medallion [64621]
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So you don't think this is a foul? (pic)***
Mar 17, 2014, 1:26 PM
[ in reply to 1. No. ] |
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CU Medallion [64621]
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I interpret your lack of a response as an acknowledgment
Mar 17, 2014, 4:22 PM
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that it was an obvious foul that, for some "unknown" reason, was not called.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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Posted this earlier, but in yesterday's game Duke was
Mar 17, 2014, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to When is the last time a call or no-call by an ACC ref.... ] |
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whistled for 28 personal fouls and two technical fouls, while UVa was only whistled for 15 personal fouls.
UVa shot 38 free throws to Duke's 11.
Do the Duke coaches have reason to complain?
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All-In [29042]
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Both technicals were obvious
Mar 17, 2014, 1:07 PM
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Coach K, after arguing a call, turned and threw his marker. That will get called every time. The second was a Duke player (late in the game) throwing up a junk 3 and contorting as if he'd been fouled (no contact) then running at the ref and arguing that he'd been fouled. Those will ALWAYS get called.
My argument is always about consistency. A foul on one end should always be a foul going the other way. Even granting that refs call the game differently depending on scenarios (swallowing their whistles late), that should STILL apply both ways.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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I had the game on but was in and out of the room, so I can't
Mar 17, 2014, 1:20 PM
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really say either way. That's a pretty big disparity though.
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All-In [26968]
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I thought there were some questionable calls...
Mar 17, 2014, 1:22 PM
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Most of the fouls were because Virginia just played better and were normally in the better position, though.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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OK so answer the questions***
Mar 17, 2014, 4:26 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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He's saying not to blame the refs for us not getting into
Mar 17, 2014, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to Not the refs fault?? ] |
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the NCAA tournament. Yes, you can isolate certain plays in every game that the refs miss. That play in the Duke game just happened to be a big one.
We shouldn't have lost to Wake Forest, Notre Dame, Auburn, or Arkansas. And if we could have executed a friggin inbound pass we win vs Pitt.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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Wins against Pitt and Duke puts Clemson's RPI in the mid 50s
Mar 17, 2014, 11:41 AM
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and definitely enhances it Tournament resume.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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I understand that and honestly I don't put the Pitt
Mar 17, 2014, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to He's saying not to blame the refs for us not getting into ] |
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game at the refs feet, cause all we had to do was inbound the ball and we win.
The dook game on the other hand I think you can say the refs cost us it, cause we fought back, took the lead then they call something on our end when the dude is driving out of control but don't call it on their end
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CU Medallion [64621]
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We did inbounds the ball but KJ was fouled....
Mar 17, 2014, 11:46 AM
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which is yet another example of the officials keeping their whistles in their pockets.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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That may be, but you still never inbound the ball
Mar 17, 2014, 11:49 AM
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under your own goal in a situation like that.
Still completely our fault imo. I love what Brownlee is doing with our program and support him 100% but he botched that play call.
Hindsight is 20/20
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CU Medallion [64621]
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The inbound play he drew-up worked.....
Mar 17, 2014, 12:02 PM
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He knew Pitt was going to foul just as quickly as we touched the ball which they did but the zebras didn't bother calling it.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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I still say there're too many unknowns when you
Mar 17, 2014, 12:09 PM
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inbound it right under your basket when they all around it like that. Even if the play call works I don't think it's ever wise to do so unless you're running into the 5 second clock and don't have any timeouts
Why not just have someone streak down the court or do something like we did last play vs dook?
Again, hindsight is 20/20
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All-In [26968]
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Seen that posted a lot...doesn't say as much
Mar 17, 2014, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Not the refs fault?? ] |
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As some Clemson fans think it says. All that picture says is that the Duke player did make physical contact with the Clemson player. Not all contact is a foul, and in this case the contact was very slight. But you can't tell that from this photo. The video is pretty clear that a no-call was good there.
The foul on Hood on the preceding play is the one I believe was probably incorrect.
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Expert [1376]
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Are you saying the Dukie swiped and hit the ball first?
Mar 17, 2014, 12:30 PM
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Otherwise that's an obvious foul.
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All-In [26968]
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I am saying that, based on video I saw,
Mar 17, 2014, 12:36 PM
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The contact was very slight, and did not merit a foul call on the Duke player.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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What you're saying is basically what we all believe -- Duke
Mar 17, 2014, 1:15 PM
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will get the call and Clemson will not.
Both situations could have been a foul or a "no call" ...
As we saw, Duke got benefit of the foul call, and we got shafted by the "no call".
It's pretty much embedded in the DNA of ACC officiating that close calls will go in favor of the Tobacco Road team whenever possible ... and it's almost always "possible", LOL.
PS: If you can look at that last play and say with a straight face, that you believe a Duke player would not have drawn a foul call in that situation, then all I can say is that you are naïve at best and dishonest at worst.
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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"Close calls will go in favor of the Tobacco Road team
Mar 17, 2014, 1:22 PM
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whenever possible"
But in another thread someone said that NC State is getting shafted by the ACC refs??
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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There's a "pecking order" even among Tobacco Road schools
Mar 17, 2014, 1:47 PM
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Everybody has to serve somebody ...
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All-In [26968]
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CU Guru [1163]
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Which is essentially back peddling to the point others
Mar 17, 2014, 1:42 PM
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(including me) have been saying all along.
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All-In [26968]
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No, I've been debating more strong opinions than that.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:50 PM
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Including: the call cost Clemson the game (which I disagree with), and that ACC or its refs are biased toward Duke/other schools (which I also disagree with).
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All-In [29042]
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In a one point game
Mar 17, 2014, 1:59 PM
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One team getting the call and the other team not getting the call DID determine the outcome of the game by any practical measure
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All-In [26968]
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I guess I should rephrase...
Mar 17, 2014, 2:01 PM
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I disagree that the call alone cost Clemson a game. I pretty much disagree with that for every call in every game, ever.
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All-In [29042]
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That's a fair point
Mar 17, 2014, 2:09 PM
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And I guess I don't really disagree because logically it can be ALWAYS be argued that the team could've made one more play to overcome the bad call.
I just think that way of thinking basically argues that no matter what you can't really ever complain about a call because the obvious retort is "well, you should've played better otherwise." Which, while true, is arguing that unless you play perfectly you have no grounds to argue the refs call had an impact on the game.
It's a noble idea, but it does nothing to discuss the true impact that these "judgement calls" at the ends of games have.
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All-In [26968]
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Well, I would certainly want to try do whatever I can
Mar 17, 2014, 2:13 PM
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To help calls be as accurate as possible. Whether that's sending tape to the league office, or whatever, no problem.
I guess I just don't spend much time, personally, worrying about what "cost" me the game.
I was never so angry about a call as I was in that Braves playoff game two years ago, the "infield fly". I hated the call. But I don't think the umpire was trying to make a bad call, because he favored the Cardinals. And any thoughts I had about "blame" were that the Braves just played an awful game that night. And after a day or two, I was over it.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: No, I've been debating more strong opinions than that.
Mar 17, 2014, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to No, I've been debating more strong opinions than that. ] |
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"At worst, I am saying that Duke got a call in their favor."
Your words... mirroring my and other's thoughts. Not everyone, but many. You may debate who you wish, you may not discount debates at your discretion.
I saw no post of a link to your evidence... I posted mine that show the player reaching in and positively making arm contact. Self evident
And as I said... I have no reason to be more specific... you were and proved my point.
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All-In [26968]
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The call I'm referring to is the one on Hood...
Mar 17, 2014, 2:03 PM
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not the one on Hall. I looked for a video to support my point, but couldn't find one. I seem to recall a Vine that I saw the day after the game.
Anyways, I don't disagree that the Duke player reached in, or that he made arm contact. But neither of those two items necessarily constitutes a foul, according to the official rules of the game.
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All-In [26968]
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Again, rephrase for clarification...
Mar 17, 2014, 2:05 PM
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When I say "Duke got a call in their favor," I am referring to when Hood got "fouled" on his drive.
The main call I've been debating is the one on Hall...I think the officials got that one right.
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: Again, rephrase for clarification...
Mar 17, 2014, 2:10 PM
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Check page 9, 7th post from the bottom. Your words copied and pasted.
Back peddle back peddle back peddle... and now deny your own words..
Sorry... further participation from me is not merited.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't have "pages" like you.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:14 PM
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This entire thread is on one page for me. Can you tell me exactly what you're referring to?
I am not aware that I am contradicting myself, but if I am, I would like to correct that and apologize.
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All-In [29042]
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It can certainly be argued they got it right
Mar 17, 2014, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to Again, rephrase for clarification... ] |
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But only, in my opinion, if you argue that refs should make sure every foul they call late in the game is really and truly a foul (we all know they change the standards late in a game).
By that measure the call on Hood's drive becomes the outlier.
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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Great post! Better duck quick though
Mar 17, 2014, 11:36 AM
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I see the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse heading down the road, and they don't look happy.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Who are the other 3
Mar 17, 2014, 11:39 AM
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besides franc?
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CU Medallion [64621]
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The NCAAT aside, none of that changes the fact....
Mar 17, 2014, 11:37 AM
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that Clemson absolutely got ****** by the officials at the end of the Pitt and Duke games.
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CU Medallion [68114]
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Re:The NCAAT aside, none of that changes the fact..Md too
Mar 17, 2014, 11:48 AM
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halls three as called by ref made a two with no conclusive replay. they tried there but it idnt pan out for MD
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Oculus Spirit [81996]
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And if we made every single shot we took, then we'd be
Mar 17, 2014, 11:39 AM
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undefeated.
The reason we complain about the refs is because they are out of our control, and they were the direct out of control cause for our losses to Pitt & Duke.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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I still cant figure out how they botch that pitt call.
Mar 17, 2014, 11:44 AM
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Drives me Nutz.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Oculus Spirit [81996]
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I concur, but Clemson still should've won the game despite
Mar 17, 2014, 11:47 AM
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our own mistakes, it was the refs who took that away from us.
I agree that we shouldn't have put ourselves in that position and it is our fault for getting into that situation...but the refs put that final nail in.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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ok. i'd start practicing now on avoiding the same failures.
Mar 17, 2014, 11:50 AM
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cause the last 10 secs of the game was on clemson.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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The turnover was absolutely on Clemson, however, regardless
Mar 17, 2014, 11:52 AM
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of that turnover, it was a bad call that cost us the game. Plain and simple.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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allowing a 3rd party to determine the outcome of something
Mar 17, 2014, 12:00 PM
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well within your control is failure, plain and simple.
you don't want your failures to cost you? don't fail; clemson did.
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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Because some people are more comfortable blaming our
Mar 17, 2014, 12:03 PM
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failures on others. Maybe we have a psychiatrist on the bored that can go into the technical aspects of this?
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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How much does that pay?
Mar 17, 2014, 12:06 PM
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I might be available...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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don't worry about dollar amounts, hold out for
Mar 17, 2014, 12:11 PM
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full access internet so you don't get caulk blocked to all the fine, hawt, bikini clad russian chicks with HUGE tracts of land.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Hence my question so I can maybe quit my commie job
Mar 17, 2014, 12:12 PM
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I love HUGE tracts of land
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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was clemson awarded the win? i'd say yes, clemson failed
Mar 17, 2014, 12:04 PM
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miserably to avoid that which was avoidable...
a 3rd party decision invited by clemson's failures to execute something rather simple.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Do you believe the refs failed?***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:09 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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I believe they failed
Mar 17, 2014, 12:11 PM
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on that one play. It just happened to be a huge play in the game. Point is, we shouldn't have put ourselves in a situation where human error determined our outcome.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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When you fail on a reviewed play, you deserve to be blamed
Mar 17, 2014, 12:14 PM
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for failure to do your job. They cost a team a game due to their failure.
I'd feel the same way about the refs had the roles been reversed between Pitt and Clemson.
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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I agree, they failed to do their job on that play.
Mar 17, 2014, 12:17 PM
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But why were the two clocks out of synch? That's something that we could have controlled. Not the team, of course, but our facilities crew.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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whether i do or don't doesn't change clemson's inability
Mar 17, 2014, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Do you believe the refs failed?*** ] |
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to handle their business when they should have, it's really not that hard.
i control what i can, when i can and don't blame someone else when i screw the pooch.
i don't know an athlete, A personality or driver that thinks differently...
and i don't want to.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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But It does matter.
Mar 17, 2014, 12:20 PM
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Does Clemson still fail by your standard if the refs get the call correct and we win?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Yeah avoid something when it potentially contradicts your
Mar 17, 2014, 12:30 PM
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"point"
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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avoid? that's fairly daft as in no way does that change
Mar 17, 2014, 12:36 PM
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clemson's inability to avoid the avoidable.
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Oculus Spirit [81996]
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By your logic, you can never blame anybody but yourselves
Mar 17, 2014, 12:45 PM
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for a loss, correct?
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Oculus Spirit [97006]
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If it helps you sleep better at night by assigning blame,
Mar 17, 2014, 12:47 PM
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go for it.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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he doesn't like speeding tickets because roads are built to
Mar 17, 2014, 1:04 PM
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handle top end velocities approaching light speed.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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whoa, hey now, they are not fools. i get their pain.***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:06 PM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Everyone's a fool to Mr. T***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:10 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i pity you foo.***
Mar 17, 2014, 12:17 PM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i'd like to think we'd take particular interest or care
Mar 17, 2014, 12:03 PM
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in inbounding the ball safely. we ran some nice ones in the duke game. it's not a difficult play to manage.
copy me on your email to brad, especially his response(s) when you suggest backing out of the nit.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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I will
Mar 17, 2014, 12:06 PM
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What's his tmale?
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Orange Blooded [2258]
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Joined: 12/1/07
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Re: quit blaming the refs
Mar 17, 2014, 11:44 AM
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Yea the offiicials made what looked to be terrible calls but it doesnt help when you go on 5 or 10 min scoring droughts and make terrible passes and cant get a rebound to save your life.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15718
Joined: 10/23/12
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Hey jr, why dont you just go back to not posting...
Mar 17, 2014, 11:47 AM
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119 posts in 5 years and some change is laughable considering you are trying to call out everyone on tnet...
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Hall of Famer [21877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15718
Joined: 10/23/12
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correction:6 years(fat fingered it)***
Mar 17, 2014, 11:48 AM
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Orange Blooded [2258]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1837
Joined: 12/1/07
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Re: correction:6 years(fat fingered it)***
Mar 17, 2014, 11:53 AM
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Didnt realize I needed to comment every day to make a statement about our basketball team. You are right I dont post much but I do get on here everyday and read post everyday that I agree with and some I dont. Would it make you feel better anonymous if I posted 20 times a day. Was it necessary to see how long I have been on t net vs my comment count. Sour grapes Eh.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15718
Joined: 10/23/12
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I feel it gives insight into the individual posting on the
Mar 17, 2014, 12:01 PM
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boards.
If you only come out to make posts that call out players and fans, why even post?
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Orange Blooded [2258]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 1837
Joined: 12/1/07
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Re: I feel it gives insight into the individual posting on the
Mar 17, 2014, 12:10 PM
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I'll be sure to run all my post by you from here on out. Thanks for your thoughts and caring so much about my comment totals.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15718
Joined: 10/23/12
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You're Welcome, feel free to tmail me to screen your posts
Mar 17, 2014, 12:12 PM
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beforehand.
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All-In [26585]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20708
Joined: 9/2/02
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Yeah, if you don't shoot 100% from the floor and line
Mar 17, 2014, 12:09 PM
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you deserve to lose ... pffffffftttttttt
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Expert [1376]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 1467
Joined: 3/25/13
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Questions for you...
Mar 17, 2014, 12:14 PM
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1. If the refs would have called the late Pitt shot as they should have, would we have won the game?
2. Which happened last - the pass under the basket or the bad call?
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CU Medallion [52965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23089
Joined: 10/10/11
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Doesn't matter what should or should not have been done
Mar 17, 2014, 12:51 PM
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over the course of the season, or even a game. The fact is, the Tigers have a right to expect officials to make the correct calls ALL of the time, whether it costs a game or not. Of course, the officials are never going to be perfect, but they could at least strive for it. But, we all know the deal with UNC and Duke. The officials do what they have done all of my life when it comes to those two schools.
We all have a RIGHT to complain when we see something is wrong.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 25448
Joined: 7/28/05
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Go worship Swofford, tarhole***
Mar 17, 2014, 1:00 PM
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All-In [49613]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30357
Joined: 12/10/98
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I actually agree with the spirit of the OP...
Mar 17, 2014, 1:02 PM
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...though hi s presentation of the argument is lamentable.
Fretting and fuming about the outcome won't change things, but the officials were indeed responsible. However, we placed ourselves in the position to to allow them to take the win away.
Henceforth, we need to do what Virginia did ... put ourselves so far ahead the whistling minions of all things blue can't help their corrupt masters.
We will have the experience and talent to do so. Better days ahead.
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CU Guru [1201]
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Posts: 1880
Joined: 6/13/99
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Re: quit blaming the refs
Mar 17, 2014, 1:03 PM
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That's stupid. Clemson deserves a fair chance to win a close game.
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110%er [6321]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5728
Joined: 11/2/08
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so based on your thinking..
Mar 17, 2014, 1:48 PM
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say a guy runs a stop sign on 1st ave but drives safely for 5 more blocks, and you run a stop sign on 7th ave and hit him. It would not be your fault because he ran a stop sign several blocks away and if he had not run that other stop sign, you would not have hit him.
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Commissioner [976]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 1836
Joined: 10/13/00
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Picture for you.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:14 PM
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110%er [7390]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 8066
Joined: 11/8/12
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Oh how I wish I were able to post during this monumental
Mar 17, 2014, 3:13 PM
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thread this afternoon. I like how you said, "If Rod Hall wouldn't have made that pass" as if he actually made the pass.
But alas, we all would have made numerous more mistakes had we been given the opportunity to play for the Clemson basketball team so let's not hold too much of a grudge for either the refs or our team/coaches.
Actually, yeah. Those refs should be fired, torched, & hung out to dry.
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Oculus Spirit [97866]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64969
Joined: 7/13/02
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This is why I don't really like basketball
Mar 17, 2014, 3:17 PM
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As a sport I mean. If Clemson ddn't play basketball, I wouldn't follow the sport at all. There's too many bad calls and no calls by refs. It's bad enough in football, but basketball is a ref's sport if there ever was one.
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Amateur [46]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 221
Joined: 9/26/06
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Re: This is why I don't really like basketball
Mar 17, 2014, 6:25 PM
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I agree! Anybody that has any kind of common sense can take a look at the garbage that happened against Pitt and Duke and realize ACC Basketball is turning into the WWF. It’s driven by money, a commissioner that sits around eating baby blue donuts and a coach that spews cuss words that the devil would be proud of.
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