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I know the ole "if FSU/Miami/Clem" would just win argument..
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All-In [30593]
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I know the ole "if FSU/Miami/Clem" would just win argument..
May 17, 2012, 12:23 PM
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but you can also argue the other way with that...
FSU comes into the conference as a powerhouse. They win something like 8-10 titles in a row. They are ranked in the top 5 for 14 straight years or something. Over time, they began to come DOWN to the level of other ACC schools... who ARE NOT rising.
In the meantime, SEC teams are getting better and better, including SCU and even VANDY.
Same thing with Miami. They enter the ACC and suddenly they no longer are the "U" of old. They play down to the level of the rest of the conference.
Same for Clemson.
Yes... these teams should absolutely be winning more, and that would help this conference...
But you can't tell me that the dollars the SEC is bringing in and the "lackluster" support football in the ACC gets hasn't contributed to the downfall, somewhat.
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Virtuoso [636]
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I can't tell you how freaking tired I am of you
May 17, 2012, 12:26 PM
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constantly bringing common sense and such to this forum. Seriously... stop it. You make me want to throw up.
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Orange Blooded [4302]
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Agree completely...was writing my post above at the same
May 17, 2012, 12:28 PM
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time as you. Glad someone gets it!
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All-In [30593]
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it's garbage to look at the facts over the last 10 years...
May 17, 2012, 12:29 PM
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with the SEC's TV contracts and emergence of their programs...
then look at the ACC and a "mired down" FSU/UM/Clemson...
and suggest "if they would only win we'd be like the SEC"
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Orange Blooded [4302]
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And people forget that when VT has had great seasons going
May 17, 2012, 12:33 PM
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recently there has always still been talk about whether an undefeated or one loss ACC team can make the MNC game. Why? Because of the competition in the ACC. Miami, VT, FSU and Clemson could all end up with one loss at the end of the season before the ACCCG and everyone in the media would say it's because the ACC is weak.
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CU Guru [1198]
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Re: I know the ole "if FSU/Miami/Clem" would just win argument..
May 17, 2012, 12:47 PM
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You're right. Clemson would be at a big revenue disadvantage to South Carolina even if the Tigers had gone 14-0 last year.
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Legend [18133]
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Actually, I think FSU's decline is due in whole to one
May 17, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Bobby Bowden staying too long at the helm. the game had passed him by and they would have seen the same decline whether they had joined the ACC, or not. Miami had the Larry Coker debacle and now looming problems with the NCAA. I really can't blame the ACC for either program's decline.
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Fan [96]
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Re: I know the ole "if FSU/Miami/Clem" would just win argument..
May 17, 2012, 12:57 PM
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You’re only as good as your competition. So yeah I think the ACC has something to do with FSU/Miami football programs lack of success
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: I know the ole "if FSU/Miami/Clem" would just win argument..
May 17, 2012, 1:17 PM
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Well the old saying about "you are who your friends are", or said another way, "you become what you hang around with" does have some merit don't ya think?
When there are schools that are the "brand names" of the conference (Duke, UNC) who deemphasize football and only really care about a powerhouse basketball team and a high academic ranking, then the odds of football becoming strong within the conference are weakened.
In the case of the SEC, football money can improve the overall athletic department and help pay big money for basketball and baseball coaches and facilities. Basketball money cannot do the same for football. If football is not emphasized then ACC football will continue to suffer and as the years go along the gap between the power football conferences and the ACC will get wider and wider. TV contracts may get smaller for the ACC, not larger; there is only so much money to be spent by the networks and that money will go to the superior products.
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Hall of Famer [22406]
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Tennessee and Florida have fallen dramatically.
May 17, 2012, 1:00 PM
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Miss State, Ole Miss, Kentucky and Vanderbilt are mediocre on a good day.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Which begs the question.........
May 17, 2012, 1:02 PM
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why haven't those schools athletic successes increased dramatically with all the lucre pouring into their respective programs?????
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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COACHING***
May 17, 2012, 1:09 PM
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Legend [18133]
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Guess iron sharpens iron only some of the time. Other
May 17, 2012, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to Tennessee and Florida have fallen dramatically. ] |
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times iron against iron just takes the edge off both?
I agree with you; the ACC has nothing to do with FSU's underachieving.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: I know the ole "if FSU/Miami/Clem" would just win argument..
May 17, 2012, 1:03 PM
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Same for Clemson??? We started the league
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Our decline started during FSU's rise. FSU, during the 90's
May 17, 2012, 1:05 PM
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sustained THE elite program in the country for a decade... all while the ACC sucked.
Miami dropped off the very YEAR they joined the ACC. It's impossible that conference affiliation could be responsible for their decline.
Virginia Tech has remained the exact same.
Boston College has had more success than we have since joining... until they lost their coach.
The ACC sucks because of coaching. The ACC will improve because of coaching. I think Al Golden, Dabo Swinney (as long as he can hold on to his coordinators) and Jimbo Fischer will improve the ACC's quality. But FSU's problems are their own fault. Same with us.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the sec/espn deal did not happen until '08? and went into
May 17, 2012, 1:07 PM
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effect for the '09/'10 season yorkie?
i think the sec was looking into it's own network up unti that point and dealt with a regional before this deal.
i do believe the money is a difference maker, i also believe your timeline would be flawed.
the acc owned 8 of 20 football national championships when daU joined, the 8th being gt's. if you go back 2 years you can make it 9 of 22 with CU's.
to suggest daU's, fsu's, cu's or gt's decline had anything to do with the espn deal is ludicrous until it happened.
the decline of those football powers are on them and not some fantasy deal that didn't exist until the '09/10 season.
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Legend [16167]
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His premise was that the demise came from playing down
May 17, 2012, 1:25 PM
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to the ACC's level of talent...and that has some credence...he said the money contributed somewhat...It definitely hasn't helped...To be truthful...The U will never be the same...different era, different rules...and money is definitely a large part of their problem now...FSU and Clemson had coaching issues that hopefully have been rectified, both coaches went to the CG in their first year...But you are NOT going to win going forward against SEC rivals without MONEY...That is as clear as day...We don't have to like it...But you are too smart to not recognize it...The ACC cannot compete(it doesn't appear that it even wants to) and it is time to do something about it...The best option appears to be the BXIII...
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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FSU in the 90's and Boise State these days prove that to be
May 17, 2012, 1:30 PM
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wrong.
Coaching overcomes that.
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Legend [16167]
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If anything FSU did in the 90s was still relevant, they
May 17, 2012, 2:48 PM
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wouldn't be in trouble now...but alas the 90s are at least 13 years past...
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Orange Blooded [2118]
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Disagree...
May 17, 2012, 1:11 PM
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First - Take a hard look at the SEC East. It's very weak. UT has fallen off a cliff. UF has had 2 years in a row of extreme mediocrity. Vandy still stinks, as does Kentucky. Georgia has lost consecutive bowl games to Michigan State and UCF. UCF, for Godsakes!!!! That leaves South Carolina, which is just benefitting from everyone else falling apart. They haven't gotten that much better. It's just that everyone else in that sorry division has gotten worse.
Next - Look at Miami. If you're blaming the ACC for their downfall, then does that mean that the old Big East takes the credit for their great teams of 2000-2002? Everyone knows that's not the case.
What about FSU? Tell me this. Where could Bobby Bowden have won during his last 9 or so years? You could've given him an NFL team, and he would've found a way to lose it. The man hung on too long, and dragged FSU down with him.
As for Clemson - Tell me how you think guys like Tommy West and Tommy Bowden would do if you gave them the keys to Tuscaloosa or Baton Rouge? Do you think those guys are big-time head coaches? Do you think they'd do what Saban has done?
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